US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[Publicus]

Monday July 7th is the reported date the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague is expected to issue its findings in the case of the Philippines vs People's Republic of China in the South China Sea disputes between the two. Everyone expects the Arbitral Court which the CCP Dictators in Beijing have rejected appearing before to rule for the Phils.

US Navy meanwhile moved two aircraft carrier strike forces into the West Philippine Sea during last week both taking part in air-sea exercises beginning on the weekend and continuing, the USS John Stennis Strike Group Three and the USS Ronald Reagan Strike Group 15, as CCP is threatening to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone over some or all of the SCS, perhaps before the Tribunal announces its decision.

PHILIPPINE SEA (June 18, 2016) The Nimitz-class aircraft carriers USS John C. Stennis

(CVN 74), center, and USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) conduct dual aircraft carrier strike

group operations in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations in support of security and stability

in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. The operations mark the U.S. Navy's continued presence

throughout the area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication

Specialist 3rd Class Jake Greenberg/Released)

A PLA spokesman said last week CCP are ready to declare an ADIZ in the Sea. Most people figure it would be a limited ADIZ to the Paracel Island group in dispute with Vietnam, as trying to encompass the entire nine-dashed line has too many complications for CCP Dictators, and the Spratley Islands in the southeast of the Sea affects too many claimant countries and is a much larger area to defend.

Guaranteed US will fly through any ADIZ that CCP may establish over the SCS at any time. USAF already flew through the ADIZ the CCP Dictators surprise established in the East Sea against Japan in 2013 and fighters from US, Japan, South Korea have continued to fly at will through the zone over the Senkaku archipelago between Taiwan and Japan.

This photo released on June 19, 2016 by the US Navy shows a flight formation of Boeing

F/A-18E and F Super Hornets above the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis in the

Philippine Sea. (Photo by AFP)

Last week the Indonesian Navy fired on CCP Chinese fishing boats in its waters around the Nantuna archipelago at the southernmost point of the nine-dashed line, wounding one CCP fisherman and taking one boat and seven-man crew into custody.

In the words of the Indonesian foreign minister.....

In response, Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi reiterated that all of those incidents took place within Indonesia's EEZ and, accordingly, the Indonesian navy has taken the appropriate enforcement action.

She also said Indonesia's territorial claim over its EEZ off the Natunas was based on the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) and thus, Indonesia's territorial waters do not overlap with China's.

"This world is organised based on international laws and this world is not organised by historical-based claims," said Ms Retno, referring to Beijing's "traditional fishing grounds" claims.

"Unclos is the ocean charter, historical facts cannot annul Unclos, but in reverse Unclos annuls historical facts."

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/chinese-poachers-are-excuse-for-beijing-to-lay-claim-to-natunas-indonesia-rear-admiral?utm_content=buffer9c33d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffe

The Lady is actually rather generous as Beijing has not even given the exact coordinates of its lines or claims.

[LawrenceChee]

Nice Airshow ....wonder if they will fly for Disney opening at Shanghai

Because whatever is brought to the arena of SCS , you cannot attack civilian craft

Conclusion - another meddling by the USA at the expense of the US taxpayers ...ouch for my colleagues from the states when they see their next federal tax bill !

Guess between Syria and Russia and SCS the Americans have exhausted all their budgets for the year without achieving much

Like I say impressive Airshow ....be nicer if they are closer to shore so that the Chinese kids can get all excited and take pictures on their WeChat accounts

Im actually at the Binhai Tianjin area this week and will be nice to be able to spot them off the Chinese planes.

Irony is all these ships are docking at Baoshan area for supplies after these exercises and getting fleeced by the chandlers

Edited June 22, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Publicus]

USA isn't going to shoot any fishermen so wise up.

We will fly through an ADIZ if that's what becomes necessary.

See if your guyz try to engage us in any such SCS Zone. Your guyz in Beijing haven't engaged in their off the wall ADIZ in the East Sea they established in 2013 against Japan, especially when after two dayze US sent two B-52s right into and through it.

After the Tribunal announces its decision the countries of the region and of the world will be more ready to commit and to engage. France is already stirring the EU over the sea lanes of oil transport and trade through the SCS. Australia will continue to fly recon over the SCS regardless of any ADIZ, and if Labour is elected (unlikely) Australia is likely to engage in aggressive sea exercises.

Doubt actually the Boyz in Beijing are any more realistic than you are in your own world over there.

[LawrenceChee]

You mentioned a core point there Comrade P

China won't engage and you can't either ...so keep sailing at your tax payers expense

You can see ASEAN cannot issue a statement on this as an entity well they did and withdrawn it an hour later because the members don't see eye to eye with each other politically and even though they are in a grouping , still they don't believe ones interests is the other

No fantasies here, just 100% Asian practicality.

Edited June 22, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Publicus]

The President of Indonesia Joko Widido decided yesterday he'll go today to the Natuna islands at the southernmost end of the CCP nine dashed line which overlaps with the Natuna 200 mile EEZ recognised by the ILOS, just to make his point. He'll arrive with several naval vessels presently being assigned to the archipelago.

The new President of the Philippines Roberto Duterte who takes office June 30th had asked US Ambassador Philip Goldberg, "Are you with us or are you not with us?" To which Amb. Goldberg replied, "only if you are attacked." (Duterte had said in the campaign he'd go to Scarborough himself to plant a flag.)

So Washington sent two aircraft carrier strike groups to the West Philippine Sea, aka the South China Sea, in the area of the Scarborough Shoals which CCP Dictators have their eye on as their final prize after occupying the Paracels off Vietnam and the (really sprawling) Spratleys off the Phils, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia and some of Vietnam. Duterte said to Amb. Goldberg that Scarborough is "very near" to Manila. Duterte said after the Tribunal's ruling he will send a delegation to Beijing to determine CCP's state of mind and their intentions, noting at the same time Beijing needs Philippine nickle ore more than Manila needs Beijing to import Phils' bananas.

CCP sycophants will of course try to play this down with a smile and a sneer, tooting the 'cleverness' of Beijing in the art of the deal....

China’s Nickel Ore Lifeline at Risk as Philippines Talks Tough

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-22/china-s-nickel-ore-lifeline-at-risk-as-philippines-talks-tough

However....

EU calls for free passage through South China Sea

Countries must be free to pass through the South China Sea, the European Commission said on Wednesday, in its first diplomatic admonishment of Beijing

"The large volume of international maritime trade passing through that area means that freedom of navigation and over flight are of prime importance to the EU," the Commission said. "The EU should encourage China to contribute constructively to regional stability ... and support for the rules-based international order," it said.

Despite the Commission's careful language, the EU is increasingly concerned by the tensions and French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian called this month for "regular and visible" European patrols in the South China Sea.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-eu-calls-for-free-passage-through-south-china-sea-2226733

US to China, rivals: Be calm after ruling

The United States on Wednesday called on China and other rival claimants to exercise restraint when an international tribunal issues a landmark ruling on the South China Sea disputes that Beijing has chosen to ignore.

A senior US state department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to Asian journalists through a teleconference, said the upcoming decision by the arbitration panel in The Hague may offer “a great deal of clarity” on the disputes and help the claimants forge an arrangement to avoid potential confrontations.

In a harsh attack on US policies in Asia, the flagship newspaper of China’s ruling Communist Party on Wednesday accused Washington of seeking to turn the South China Sea “into a powder keg” and warned it not to underestimate China’s determination to defend its territorial claims.

The People’s Daily cited recent combined exercises by two US Navy aircraft carrier strike groups off the eastern coast of the Philippines as a sign of US hegemony and said Washington had made a mistake in seeking to intimidate China.

In making displays of military power aimed at China, the United States has “picked the wrong counterpart,” said the editorial, the contents of which are usually vetted by high ranking party officials.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/140380/us-to-china-rivals-be-calm-after-ruling#ixzz4CLQXNF3P

Those who prattle on that this is a USA manufactured crisis haven't any clue of how alarmed Asean is and has been concerning CCP unilateralism in the SCS since it attacked Vietnam in 1978 to drive them out of the Spratley Islands.

Asean meeting in China the past few days issued a strong statement on the SCS against CCP but then CCP killed the statement with help from with Asean members Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos. The other seven Asean members had drafted a strong statement especially for Asean in anything, nevermind against CCP Dictators in Beijing. So Malaysia leaked the original document online and Singapore issued its own denunciation of CCP in the SCS.

Here are a couple of articles about it all....

ASEAN issues, retracts, tough statement on South China Sea

The group "cannot ignore what is happening in the South China Sea as it is an important issue in the relations and cooperation between ASEAN and China," the statement said.

"We expressed our serious concerns over recent and ongoing developments, which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tensions and which may have the potential to undermine peace, security and stability in the South China Sea," it said.

"We emphasized the importance of non-militarization and self-restraint in the conduct of all activities, including land reclamation, which may raise tensions in the South China Sea," the statement said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/asean-issues-retracts-tough-statement-south-china-sea-040515088.html

Beijing suffers South China Sea rebuke from ASEAN

The document, released by Asean member Malaysia and described as a joint statement from the bloc, warned developments in the hotly contested South China Sea could "undermine peace, security and stability".

The Chinese foreign ministry expressed puzzlement over the diplomatic dance, and denied any official document had been issued.

"Malaysia releasing it was a manifestation of the extreme frustration of the original five ASEAN members plus Vietnam at the particularly crude and arrogant behaviour of the Chinese", the Straits Times reported an ASEAN official as saying.

http://quadrangleonline.com/2016/06/21/beijing-suffers-south-china-sea-rebuke-from-asean/

Asean is indeed alarmed about CCP Dictators in the SCS and it has been deeply shaken about it for the past 30+ years. It is not something recent or anything driven from outside the region.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

You mentioned a core point there Comrade P

China won't engage and you can't either ...so keep sailing at your tax payers expense

You can see ASEAN cannot issue a statement on this as an entity well they did and withdrawn it an hour later because the members don't see eye to eye with each other politically and even though they are in a grouping , still they don't believe ones interests is the other

No fantasies here, just 100% Asian practicality.

just 100% Asian practicality.

Curious someone who uses the word regularly, consistently, frequently, hasn't any clue of what the word indicates or actually means.

Your CCP Boyz exist in your own world of fantasy which traces back to the delusions of the Central Kingdom and its original fantasyland. Reality is that nothing good has ever come from a one-party state nor could the fact ever change.

No common sense. No realistic sense of anything what so ever. It is all ideology. Racist ideology.

[LawrenceChee]

You have just two parties so if you can count like an Asian that's just one more than the communists

Your current POTUS candidates in November are spouting racism, rubbish and you allow it in the name of democracy ?

Your senators are available to lobby any agenda in congress if they are paid well and bribed correctly under the ethics policy ...very transparent indeed

So you think this is better ? Racist ? There are 600 dialects used extensively in China daily by billions in communication

USA still need a diversity law to make sure the workplace is fair and well represented by Asians , Hispanics , woman and blacks ...so who has racist ideology or fantasies ? I know because I sit in executive committees that dictates diversity for my customers and I chuckle at some of the terms used to tread carefully so no one feelings are hurt ...

Even with the law we all know it's still unfair so what happen to democracy ? Is it truly all better in all aspects ?

That's Asian practicality ,,,today if you head up to the hill tribes in northern Issan and you offer milk powder or a decorative vase, the Asians will take the milk powder and sell the vase ...that's Asian practicality ...strange you lived in Asia for Long and can't see this day to day examples ...maybe you are the one who can't understand the word ? Would it be easier if I used mandarin , Cantonese or Hokkien or Teochew ?

Edited June 22, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[LawrenceChee]

You have just two parties so if you can count like an Asian that's just one more than the communists

Your current POTUS candidates in November are spouting racism, rubbish and you allow it in the name of democracy ?

Your senators are available to lobby any agenda in congress if they are paid well and bribed correctly under the ethics policy ...very transparent indeed

So you think this is better ? Racist ? There are 600 dialects used extensively in China daily by billions in communication

USA still need a diversity law to make sure the workplace is fair and well represented by Asians , Hispanics , woman and blacks ...so who has racist ideology or fantasies ? I know because I sit in executive committees that dictates diversity for my customers and I chuckle at some of the terms used to tread carefully so no one feelings are hurt ...

Even with the law we all know it's still unfair so what happen to democracy ? Is it truly all better in all aspects ?

China will continue to engage ASEAN because of one reason they understand in Asia is groups don't do well

So far only Indonesia Vietnam and Philippines have direct claim conflicts nothing to do with the rest of the grouping and frankly they don't what to get involved as Long as they get trades deals that benefit them

[LawrenceChee]

You mentioned a core point there Comrade P

China won't engage and you can't either ...so keep sailing at your tax payers expense

You can see ASEAN cannot issue a statement on this as an entity well they did and withdrawn it an hour later because the members don't see eye to eye with each other politically and even though they are in a grouping , still they don't believe ones interests is the other

No fantasies here, just 100% Asian practicality.

just 100% Asian practicality.

Curious someone who uses the word regularly, consistently, frequently, hasn't any clue of what the word indicates or actually means.

Your CCP Boyz exist in your own world of fantasy which traces back to the delusions of the Central Kingdom and its original fantasyland. Reality is that nothing good has ever come from a one-party state nor could the fact ever change.

No common sense. No realistic sense of anything what so ever. It is all ideology. Racist ideology.

Today I was in a project signing for a new railway line up the northeast ...hundred of millions of Chinese can use these fast speed trains starting at 80 yuan up ( 425 baht ) for trains that can go up at 300kmh in a modern terminal and get you to the middle of the city in Super fast speed to marvel at technology

That's $12 USD which won't even get me from Miami airport to the nearest airport hotel and you are talking about 100+km ride here for the commoner

Last night I came home on a 12 lane highway back to the hotel in an Audi drinking Oolong Tea ...last time I was here with my grandad in this city ...this was a dirt road

Ideology...fantasies only ? Nope this is Asian practicality and this is what Asians like.

[Publicus]

Get a grip Lawrence cause you are going off on a nut mooncake tangent. This is about the South China Sea and the Tribunal ruling coming up July 7th or so against the CCP Dictators in Beijing who also have their army of sociopath censors to impose their psychopath mind control over the society there.

CCP Dictators have gone throughout the world beating the bushes to scare up every 3rd world dictator and corrupt tyrant to endorse its position on the SCS while simultaneously turning against the countries and people in its own neighborhood, from Japan to Taiwan through Asean and Australia right on out to India. Not to mention the ally and partner of 'em all, the USA.

Talk about Trump screwed up and dangerous, we need to talk about all the CCPs in the PRC who are in fact Donald Trumps under the hammer and sickle. Bad news indeed so it's long past time people around these parts knew the reality that is before us to understand how we got to this point and why.

[boomerangutang]

Can you believe that Obama Kerry and The Clinton's will get the United States in a Huge World War III

If you want peace Vote for Trump the Peace Candidate

Is that a joke post? When HRC becomes prez in January next year, she may retain Kerry as Sec. of State, or she may not. Either way, there won't be a WWIII over the S.C. Sea, any more than there was WWIII when the Brits went to the Shetlands and won a 3 day war.

There will very likely be some military action in the SCS, but don't be alarmist and call it WWIII. A WW is very serious and causes grave residual harm. Military action in the SCS will be brief, and China will get its butt kicked. Probably less than a week of action. Another reason it will be nothing approaching a WW, is China is on its own. No other country will tangibly come to its aid, not even N.Korea. A few very small far-away countries may voice an opinion in favor of China, but that's because they were paid to do so by Chinese operatives.

Russia won't lift a finger to help China.

As for LChee's repeating the issue about "China needing resources." All countries need resources. Venezuela is currently up shit creek without a paddle for lack of food for its people. Somalia, South Sudan, Syria and many other countries have been resource poor for decades.

Bottom line: There is no justification for commandeering other countries' territory. Lust for resources may be justification for the sheeple of China, but it's a non-starter for everyone else. Starting WWII in the Pacific was Japan's stupid way of expressing its lust for resources 75 years ago. Look how much good that did.

[Publicus]

SecDef Ashton Carter is a hawk who many in the defense community advocated to succeed Robert Gates when he stepped out. President Obama finally did appoint Carter early last year and knows that as commander in chief Obama needs to listen to Carter on the SCS issues and strategies.

Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter prepares to speak to the Senate Armed Services

Committee whose chairman is Sen. John S. McCain, April 26, 2016. Carter is listening

to high praise by Sen. McCain.

The Pentagon and State Department have numerous options to take in the SCS and relative to the CCP Dictators in Beijing if CCP goes ballistic over the ruling of the Tribunal in The Hague that is expected July 7th. US already has two aircraft carrier strike groups in the Philippine Sea aka the South China Sea.

In this photo from Wednesday, June 15, 2016, an F/A-18 Hornet takes off the deck of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier the USS John C. Stennis during joint military exercise between the United States, Japan and India. The U.S. says at least one Chinese ship tailed the USS John C. Stennis daily during its recent cruise through the South China Sea, although no hostile incidents were reported. (AP Photo/Shizuo Kambayashi, File)

If CCP unilaterally and arbitrarily establishes an Air Defense Identification Zone in the SCS or any part of it, the US will challenge it by flying through it, also unilaterally. US will not respond to any CCP demands to identify its aircraft or to seek the sovereign permission and authority of the CCP to proceed through an ADIZ in the SCS. CCP can take it from there.

U.S. Flexes Muscles As Asia Worries About South China Sea Row

The United States stepped up pressure on China on Saturday to rein in its actions in the South China Sea, with top defense officials underlining Washington’s military superiority and vowing to remain the main guarantor of Asian security for decades to come.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter said the U.S. approach to the Asia-Pacific remained “one of commitment, strength and inclusion”, but he also warned China against provocative behavior in the South China Sea.

Any action by China to reclaim land in the Scarborough Shoal, an outcrop in the disputed sea, would have consequences, Carter said. “I hope that this development doesn’t occur, because it will result in actions being taken by both the United States and ... by others in the region which would have the effect of not only increasing tensions but isolating China,” Carter told the Shangri-La Dialogue, a regional security forum in Singapore.

“The United States will remain the most powerful military and main underwriter of security in the region for decades to come – and there should be no doubt about that.” (emphasis added)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-flexes-muscles-as-asia_us_5752d9fde4b0ed593f148dab

Scarborough Shoals are well within the EEZ of the Philippines and CCP occupation of it would place Manila within range of PLA missiles that would certainty be placed sooner or later, to include US naval and air forces in the Philippines.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

I never thought I'd support a hawk like Carter, but perhaps I'm getting more hawkish in my senior years.

It's good there are at least some people in the Pentagon who see the Chinese Bullying in the SCS for what it is: illegal territory grabs.

That's what those Pentagon types get paid taxpayer money to do: keep an eye out for America's and its friends' interests.

On the other side of the coin, I just read a book articulating the awful oppression in Guatemala of Mayan villagers by Guatemalan gov't forces. Atrocious, and the US was indirectly backing the Guatemalan government during that time. Granted, it was decades ago, but it's a sobering reminder of how the US gets things wrong as often as it gets things right, if looked at through the prism of the past half century.

[LawrenceChee]

Boomer

Read this as well when you have time ...my work there in Danang directly impacts how I feel about the politics with regards to arms usage and rash hasty military campaigns and this is not directed at USA but any nation that uses incorrect military tactics

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/12/us/agent-oranges-long-legacy-for-vietnam-and-veterans.html

Edited June 26, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[ilostmypassword]

Boomer

Read this as well when you have time ...my work there in Danang directly impacts how I feel about the politics with regards to arms usage and rash hasty military campaigns and this is not directed at USA but any nation that uses incorrect military tactics

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/12/us/agent-oranges-long-legacy-for-vietnam-and-veterans.html

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

[Publicus]

There is great concern in Asean and throughout the India-SCS-East Asia region that goes to the UN and the EU that CCP Dictators in Beijing will go off the deep end after the Arbitral Tribunal in The Hague releases its ruling on or about July 7th that is expected to hammer Beijing over its current actions in the Sea.

The deepest end would be for the CCP to go ahead to deploy two nuclear armed missile submarines to the SCS. We should expect CCP to do that and soon.

It is also possible CCP would declare an Air Defense Identification Zone over all of the Sea or the two areas it controls, namely the Paracels off Vietnam and the Spratlys off the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia, and southeast Vietnam. CCP which nominally occupies the 60-square mile Scarborough Shoal that are only 124 nautical miles off the Phils hasn't built anything there yet but it may in its defiant response to the UN Permanent Court of Arbitration on the ILOS. Beijing may quit the UNILOS treaty besides.

This went outside of Beijing's scheme of things in the SCS when the Phils encouraged by Washington took its case to the PCA. Beijing hadn't ever figured on having to deal with a judicial factor or ruling on its actions in the SCS (or anywhere for that matter). Unexpectedly to Beijing, it is now facing an international tribunal ruling on the international law of the sea that the artificial islands have no 3-mile coastal zone, no 12 mile territorial area, have no 200 nm EEZ. And that, in another instance, Scarborough Shoal is in fact inside the territorial zone of the Philippines as well as being included in the EEZ of the Phils.

Dictators in Beijing know that after the judicial ruling other countries in the region and globally will have a just and impelling basis to become involved in the interest of open navigation in waters recognised to be international waters and in the international air space above the Sea.

Beijing hadn't ever figured on this when it laid its SCS plans and designs beginning decades ago. Didn't even think of it when they set out in earnest in 2009 and they hadn't conceived of it at any time or in any way prior to the Phils filing with the Tribunal in January 2013. The Klutzes in Beijing were caught flatfooted by the Phils filing in The Hague. The consequence is that the CCP Dictators are winging it in the face of stiff opposition from the entire region supported by the US and its Navy.

With the CCP economy failing and people complaining increasingly about it, to include keeping censors working overtime online, CCP Boyz needed a major distraction which accounts for the timing of its aggressions in the SCS. CCP have spent 60 years promising the Chinese people revenge for their "100 years of shame" (1840-1950) at the hands of Western powers and Japan. The direct consequence is that Xi Jinping cannot lose face on the SCS. Xi is willing to go to the brink because he believes no one will go to war over islands in the South China Sea.

So as has been said many times in recent years, the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Its nuclear armed submarines in the SCS in particular.

[LawrenceChee]

Boomer

Read this as well when you have time ...my work there in Danang directly impacts how I feel about the politics with regards to arms usage and rash hasty military campaigns and this is not directed at USA but any nation that uses incorrect military tactics

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/12/us/agent-oranges-long-legacy-for-vietnam-and-veterans.html

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

The CCP is not a perfect Govt ....no practical Chinese believes in that including myself, I just hosted 25 government officials and trying to get them to stick to a timetable of meeting was harder and i needed Cesar there to do his "sshhhh" thing and the nudge to show who is the pack leader

Been to a Chinese reeducation camp before ? I can bet you its not the Norwegian jails which we are still studying where that will work for such a big jail population

Seen the recent purges in CCP party by Xi ? Some of it released to the press and what happen to their families and themselves in court ?

No happy smart aleck Lawyers here to get you off the hook ....no John Grisham storyline of a technicality or plead of insanity ...its just guilty and head to the camps ...

How many senators have been purged for bribery so far or generals convicted of bribes recently by the Glen case ...what happen to them ? Have they been stripped of their rank sing and lost their pension yet ?

Have they been shot ?

The Chinese know if you do something wrong ....eventually the officials will come and everything is taken away ...

As the poster said , only news of the opposing cliques is published ...when you add that up happening on both sides every time we change a president for 10 years you find we have got rid of more unethical officials but it's not a numbers games as we know government is inevitably temped to cheat and that is down to the person

We have seen it happening in rich and poor countries , democratic and not

Edited June 27, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[boomerangutang]

So as has been said many times in recent years, the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Its nuclear armed submarines in the SCS in particular.

Am curious, are the waters deep in the SCS? A military sub may be vulnerable in a relatively shallow sea.

In today's Bkk Post, there is an editorial put forth by the Straights Times. The writer has a combination western/Chinese name. He is probably Chinese ancestry, but uses western name(s) to blend in easier in business circles.

He opines that Singapore should straddle the fence on the SCS issue - saying, in effect, Singapore should not risk maintaining China's friendship. It's understandable, but it's meek. It's the Thai-type mamby-pamby approach of not taking a stance based on principles. Instead, it's a stance to avoid being cowed by the bully. It's similar to the Asian proclivity: if you see a person being harassed or beaten in an alley, you don't interfere. Cowardice prevails.

[LawrenceChee]

So as has been said many times in recent years, the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Its nuclear armed submarines in the SCS in particular.

Am curious, are the waters deep in the SCS? A military sub may be vulnerable in a relatively shallow sea.

In today's Bkk Post, there is an editorial put forth by the Straights Times. The writer has a combination western/Chinese name. He is probably Chinese ancestry, but uses western name(s) to blend in easier in business circles.

He opines that Singapore should straddle the fence on the SCS issue - saying, in effect, Singapore should not risk maintaining China's friendship. It's understandable, but it's meek. It's the Thai-type mamby-pamby approach of not taking a stance based on principles. Instead, it's a stance to avoid being cowed by the bully. It's similar to the Asian proclivity: if you see a person being harassed or beaten in an alley, you don't interfere. Cowardice prevails.

Cowardice ? Asian parents teach their children to gauge situations and ask what you should get yourself involved in and think of the consequences and the risk

I don't believe generations of Asian parents teach their kids to be cowards ...I have seen aplenty of street fights or woman abuse stopped in Asia

Swiss stayed neutral in WWII and the Thais allowed the Japanese thoroughfare to Malaysia and Singapore ...we're they cowards ?

Are you saying in western terms , you are taught since young to jut butt in to anything without thinking ? If so then it sounds like what the USA is doing right now in SCS

[ilostmypassword]

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

The CCP is not a perfect Govt ....no practical Chinese believes in that including myself, I just hosted 25 government officials and trying to get them to stick to a timetable of meeting was harder and i needed Cesar there to do his "sshhhh" thing and the nudge to show who is the pack leader

Been to a Chinese reeducation camp before ? I can bet you its not the Norwegian jails which we are still studying where that will work for such a big jail population

Seen the recent purges in CCP party by Xi ? Some of it released to the press and what happen to their families and themselves in court ?

No happy smart aleck Lawyers here to get you off the hook ....no John Grisham storyline of a technicality or plead of insanity ...its just guilty and head to the camps ...

How many senators have been purged for bribery so far or generals convicted of bribes recently by the Glen case ...what happen to them ? Have they been stripped of their rank sing and lost their pension yet ?

Have they been shot ?

The Chinese know if you do something wrong ....eventually the officials will come and everything is taken away ...

As the poster said , only news of the opposing cliques is published ...when you add that up happening on both sides every time we change a president for 10 years you find we have got rid of more unethical officials but it's not a numbers games as we know government is inevitably temped to cheat and that is down to the person

We have seen it happening in rich and poor countries , democratic and not

I don't even know why the Chinese bother to hold trials. Since the verdict has already been decided.

[LawrenceChee]

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

The CCP is not a perfect Govt ....no practical Chinese believes in that including myself, I just hosted 25 government officials and trying to get them to stick to a timetable of meeting was harder and i needed Cesar there to do his "sshhhh" thing and the nudge to show who is the pack leader

Been to a Chinese reeducation camp before ? I can bet you its not the Norwegian jails which we are still studying where that will work for such a big jail population

Seen the recent purges in CCP party by Xi ? Some of it released to the press and what happen to their families and themselves in court ?

No happy smart aleck Lawyers here to get you off the hook ....no John Grisham storyline of a technicality or plead of insanity ...its just guilty and head to the camps ...

How many senators have been purged for bribery so far or generals convicted of bribes recently by the Glen case ...what happen to them ? Have they been stripped of their rank sing and lost their pension yet ?

Have they been shot ?

The Chinese know if you do something wrong ....eventually the officials will come and everything is taken away ...

As the poster said , only news of the opposing cliques is published ...when you add that up happening on both sides every time we change a president for 10 years you find we have got rid of more unethical officials but it's not a numbers games as we know government is inevitably temped to cheat and that is down to the person

We have seen it happening in rich and poor countries , democratic and not

I don't even know why the Chinese bother to hold trials. Since the verdict has already been decided.

Same reasons they don't understand why you hold trials and have all these dud cases (not all) that makes a mickey out of the judicial systems and wasting tax payers money

Like why do you have a trial and can sue Mcd when you walk into a glass door ? Why would you waste time like this and not apply common sense and laugh it off

Ever tried suing Mcd in Thailand for having too spicy burgers and giving you a heart burn ? Why won't you do it here or argue with immigration ?

[ilostmypassword]

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

The CCP is not a perfect Govt ....no practical Chinese believes in that including myself, I just hosted 25 government officials and trying to get them to stick to a timetable of meeting was harder and i needed Cesar there to do his "sshhhh" thing and the nudge to show who is the pack leader

Been to a Chinese reeducation camp before ? I can bet you its not the Norwegian jails which we are still studying where that will work for such a big jail population

Seen the recent purges in CCP party by Xi ? Some of it released to the press and what happen to their families and themselves in court ?

No happy smart aleck Lawyers here to get you off the hook ....no John Grisham storyline of a technicality or plead of insanity ...its just guilty and head to the camps ...

How many senators have been purged for bribery so far or generals convicted of bribes recently by the Glen case ...what happen to them ? Have they been stripped of their rank sing and lost their pension yet ?

Have they been shot ?

The Chinese know if you do something wrong ....eventually the officials will come and everything is taken away ...

As the poster said , only news of the opposing cliques is published ...when you add that up happening on both sides every time we change a president for 10 years you find we have got rid of more unethical officials but it's not a numbers games as we know government is inevitably temped to cheat and that is down to the person

We have seen it happening in rich and poor countries , democratic and not

I don't even know why the Chinese bother to hold trials. Since the verdict has already been decided.

Same reasons they don't understand why you hold trials and have all these dud cases (not all) that makes a mickey out of the judicial systems and wasting tax payers money

Like why do you have a trial and can sue Mcd when you walk into a glass door ? Why would you waste time like this and not apply common sense and laugh it off

Ever tried suing Mcd in Thailand for having too spicy burgers and giving you a heart burn ? Why won't you do it here or argue with immigration ?

In the USA and Western Europe if the government wants to punish you for doing something that angers it, you still get a chance to fight them in the court system. And you can even win. We actually have an independent judiciary. In China there is in reality no separation of the judiciary, the executive, and the legislative branches.

And the reason you get to know about flawed trials and justice in the USA and Western Europe is because there's a press that can report on it. God knows what horrors occur completely unimpeded and certainly unreported in the Chinese system.

What little we learn about corruption among the Xi faction comes from the Western press.

Edited June 27, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[Publicus]

So as has been said many times in recent years, the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Its nuclear armed submarines in the SCS in particular.

Am curious, are the waters deep in the SCS? A military sub may be vulnerable in a relatively shallow sea.

In today's Bkk Post, there is an editorial put forth by the Straights Times. The writer has a combination western/Chinese name. He is probably Chinese ancestry, but uses western name(s) to blend in easier in business circles.

He opines that Singapore should straddle the fence on the SCS issue - saying, in effect, Singapore should not risk maintaining China's friendship. It's understandable, but it's meek. It's the Thai-type mamby-pamby approach of not taking a stance based on principles. Instead, it's a stance to avoid being cowed by the bully. It's similar to the Asian proclivity: if you see a person being harassed or beaten in an alley, you don't interfere. Cowardice prevails.

As seas go the SCS is considered not deep and therefore not optimal for submarine operations.

Not optimal is not necessarily a negative however. A number of Asean governments can't buy subs fast enough or soon enough in what's become an arms race to stand up to CCP Beijing in a tiff. Subs are a stealthy way to do it in a one-off shootout. A sub is also a silent and unseen source of reconnaissance and intelligence gathering -- no surface ships, no aircraft flying overhead or nearby.

CCP Dictators got to the present by several decades of one off seizures of features of the SCS. In 1974 and further again in 1988 CCP gunships shot their way to possession of the Paracels off Vietnam in a one off in each decade. Beijing holds the Scarborough Shoal after reneging on a 2012 deal brokered by Washington (both sides agreed to withdraw but only the Phils executed the withdrawal). CCP moved into the Spratlys, have blockaded Philippine fishermen accessing the area and are building there.

A couple of submarines deployed against the CCP in such instances might have made 'em think again about such things. Or some explosions on the Chinese side of the fighting might have altered the outcome less favorably toward CCP.

Vietnam just got the 5th of its order of 6 Russian Kilo-class diesel subs that have the Klub missile that can penetrate the CCP mainland. Australia just announced a USD$40 billion award to France for twelve new diesel powered high-tech subs, Thailand is buying three subs from CCP, Malaysia and Indonesia are upgrading their submarine fleet with new purchases and scheduled purchases and the like.

As to the two PLA Navy nuclear armed subs still docked in Hainan with the South Fleet, everyone is concerned their deployment to the SCS will be CCP's response to the Arbitral Court when it rules, as expected, against Beijing. The Tribunal is expected to rule on July 7th and it will likely uphold the Philippines in almost every instance. The nuclear armed PLA Navy submarines are on the stealthy side but they can be tracked and identified. US Navy have the best ASW (anti-submarine warfare) and detection of the world, while Russia has almost nothing of ASW and CCP have zero ASW. (Which is btw another major reason Asean nations are buying submarines, i.e., nobody in the region has any ASW capabilities whatsoever. Japan has superb ASW capabilities.)

The real risk as it continues to increase is that the CCP Boyz in Beijing never foresaw an international judicial intervention as occurred when the Phils filed its case in The Hague. Since then the CCP Boyz have been thrown in to a tizzy and have become hard pressed whether they move ahead, cut back or just back off. UNILOS was never a part of their grand design over the SCS or Asean. CCP Boyz find themselves escalating and increasing their already arbitrary territorial assertions. They're looking into a mirror and seeing a suddenly lost face.

Singapore is btw too small a city-state for most people to think about in military terms but it has a highly capable air-sea warfare capacity and it has been a defense partner to the United States over a long term. Singapore in defense matters is reliable, dependable, consistent, proven, solid.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Here, you have the advantage of us. Because, in the west there is a press that at least occasionally can go after the government and not be subject to arrest and closure. But the corruption and brutality done by various government agencies in China goes mostly unreported because it's just way too dangerous for reporters to do their jobs properly. I remember when the NY Times reported on how wealthy the families of eminent party officials had become. As a result, The Times got banned.. The only time the Chinese Press reports on corruption is when rivals of the ruling clique get prosecuted. It's truly amazing how honest and incorruptible the family and friends of Xi Jinping are. I mean, the Chinese media never seem to have a bad thing to say about them. Odd, that.

The CCP is not a perfect Govt ....no practical Chinese believes in that including myself, I just hosted 25 government officials and trying to get them to stick to a timetable of meeting was harder and i needed Cesar there to do his "sshhhh" thing and the nudge to show who is the pack leader

Been to a Chinese reeducation camp before ? I can bet you its not the Norwegian jails which we are still studying where that will work for such a big jail population

Seen the recent purges in CCP party by Xi ? Some of it released to the press and what happen to their families and themselves in court ?

No happy smart aleck Lawyers here to get you off the hook ....no John Grisham storyline of a technicality or plead of insanity ...its just guilty and head to the camps ...

How many senators have been purged for bribery so far or generals convicted of bribes recently by the Glen case ...what happen to them ? Have they been stripped of their rank sing and lost their pension yet ?

Have they been shot ?

The Chinese know if you do something wrong ....eventually the officials will come and everything is taken away ...

As the poster said , only news of the opposing cliques is published ...when you add that up happening on both sides every time we change a president for 10 years you find we have got rid of more unethical officials but it's not a numbers games as we know government is inevitably temped to cheat and that is down to the person

We have seen it happening in rich and poor countries , democratic and not

I don't even know why the Chinese bother to hold trials. Since the verdict has already been decided.

Same reasons they don't understand why you hold trials and have all these dud cases (not all) that makes a mickey out of the judicial systems and wasting tax payers money

Like why do you have a trial and can sue Mcd when you walk into a glass door ? Why would you waste time like this and not apply common sense and laugh it off

Ever tried suing Mcd in Thailand for having too spicy burgers and giving you a heart burn ? Why won't you do it here or argue with immigration ?

In the USA and Western Europe if the government wants to punish you for doing something that angers it, you still get a chance to fight them in the court system. And you can even win. We actually have an independent judiciary. In China there is in reality no separation of the judiciary, the executive, and the legislative branches.

And the reason you get to know about flawed trials and justice in the USA and Western Europe is because there's a press that can report on it. God knows what horrors occur completely unimpeded and certainly unreported in the Chinese system.

What little we learn about corruption among the Xi faction comes from the Western press.

Most of the statements are correct and believe me I have a balance view and don't believe the CCP is perfect and there are grounds for them to improve on every avenue

However China is not as half bad as people think ...and negative tirades doesn't work in the easy if the intention is to get them To be more open and transparent ...remember Snowden ?

That is stuck now ...he will never win and never get out of that place but the stuff he exposes tells you there are scary shit in the west too ...so don't believe it happens only in the east

[Publicus]

It's getting time in Beijing.

CCP Dictators have made clear they will withdraw from the UNILOS treaty if the ruling of the Arbitral Court in The Hague goes against the CCP in the SCS, as almost everyone expects it will.

The PLA-controlled online and print rag Global Times said as much. Global Times is not the ultimate voice of the CCP -- People's Daily -- but it almost always speaks with the authority of the state looking over its shoulder.

Global Times has put it this way as to why CCP would quit the treaty due to an ruling adverse to it....

"...it [CCP] would be protected against similar future claims brought by Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia with regard to the South China Sea, or by Japan with regard to the East China Sea. It [CCP] it would have good reasons to do so if its territorial sovereignty was undermined by a decision of an arbitral tribunal established under the Convention."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/971707.shtml

A major flaw and fault of CCP is that they have tried to frame the SCS issues as a matter of Chinese sovereignty, which it is not. The Tribunal in The Hague is examining features in the SCS, ranging from a rock to a reef, an islet, island, archipelago etc. The specific maritime features that the ILOS recognises as having a coastal zone or not, a territorial zone or not, an EEZ or not.

A rock for instance has a 50-meter safety zone only. An artificial island built on a reef submerged at high tide gets a 3-mile safety zone, if that, depending on who else may claim the reef as within its own zone under the ILOS.

UN does not rule on matters of state sovereignty. All the governments of UN member states prohibit it in a unanimous agreement from the start of the UN in 1946 to the present. It's the proverbial snowball's chance in hell. Rather, UNILOS is intended to help clarify under a rule-based system consistently applied over time the categorising of maritime features and thereby assign a zone(s) or not assign one under a mutually agreed international law.

This is not what CCP has in mind or in store and everyone in the region (and elsewhere) know it, which is why the US Navy is on the scene and will remain indefinitely or as necessitated by the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

[LawrenceChee]

It's getting time in Beijing.

CCP Dictators have made clear they will withdraw from the UNILOS treaty if the ruling of the Arbitral Court in The Hague goes against the CCP in the SCS, as almost everyone expects it will.

The PLA-controlled online and print rag Global Times said as much. Global Times is not the ultimate voice of the CCP -- People's Daily -- but it almost always speaks with the authority of the state looking over its shoulder.

Global Times has put it this way as to why CCP would quit the treaty due to an ruling adverse to it....

"...it [CCP] would be protected against similar future claims brought by Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia with regard to the South China Sea, or by Japan with regard to the East China Sea. It [CCP] it would have good reasons to do so if its territorial sovereignty was undermined by a decision of an arbitral tribunal established under the Convention."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/971707.shtml

A major flaw and fault of CCP is that they have tried to frame the SCS issues as a matter of Chinese sovereignty, which it is not. The Tribunal in The Hague is examining features in the SCS, ranging from a rock to a reef, an islet, island, archipelago etc. The specific maritime features that the ILOS recognises as having a coastal zone or not, a territorial zone or not, an EEZ or not.

A rock for instance has a 50-meter safety zone only. An artificial island built on a reef submerged at high tide gets a 3-mile safety zone, if that, depending on who else may claim the reef as within its own zone under the ILOS.

UN does not rule on matters of state sovereignty. All the governments of UN member states prohibit it in a unanimous agreement from the start of the UN in 1946 to the present. It's the proverbial snowball's chance in hell. Rather, UNILOS is intended to help clarify under a rule-based system consistently applied over time the categorising of maritime features and thereby assign a zone(s) or not assign one under a mutually agreed international law.

This is not what CCP has in mind or in store and everyone in the region (and elsewhere) know it, which is why the US Navy is on the scene and will remain indefinitely or as necessitated by the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

The GT / PD is a published mouthpiece that the mainstream Chinese don't really read ...similar to Fox ? And if they read it ...isn't that similar to USA ? It's a freedom of choice ?

Most businessman / youths don't read these news publication ; my daily read is WSJ / ST / BP / Times / SMCP

Like I mention before, VPN is used widely in China , maybe comrade P have not figured out how easy it is to download that in your PC / smartphone and you can access everything just like a regular Chinese.

Having the US navy at scene is not a deterrent but a ridiculous show of force for something that both countries agree will never be a military campaign

However the USA foreign affairs and solutions is limited to often interfering show of force ...I can imagine if Trump the carrot head wins how many times the moron will threaten the use of force and not do it because he is gutless or just plain stupid

China is committed to negotiations and trade deals for a middle path, the USA is committed to driving arm sales in a region which does not need one and escalating tension for nothing , however the arms factories do contribute a lot of money to the campaigns and must be kept happy right ?

I would say ratify the UNILOS first ....why is this difficult for congress or your senators to ratify it ? How difficult or how busy are these guys ? Why won't you sign it ? Because you can ? From a matter of principle like the Brits have , why not sign and ratify it ?

[Publicus]

CCP has found out in its grand design to take control of the SCS that it has also become necessary to disassemble Asean as a regional grouping of nations. Or to at the least fatally rupture the Asean consensus approach.

This is because Asean has unintentionally and somehow become effective at something, i.e,. opposing CCP in Beijing in its taking control of the sea. CCP has consequently come to recognise and realise it has to dismember Asean or to scatter it if Beijing is to get control of the Sea.

Asean nations have 131,000 km of shore on the Sea while Beijing has only 1300 km of shore with it.

Asean since the 1980s had pushed CCP Boyz in Beijing to sign a Code of Conduct in respect of the SCS, which CCP finally did do in 2002 after several years of Asean driven negotiations. By 2009 however CCP in Beijing had shredded the document by moving unilaterally on the Paracel islands off Vietnam, the Spratlys off the (southern) Philippines and now the Scarborough Shoal, also off the Phils (north islands to include Manila).

In 2012 at the annual Asean leaders meeting sponsored by host Asean chairman Cambodia CCP trashed the Asean proposed Declaration on the Code of Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea. Hun Sen in his turn as rotating Asean chairman had worked 100% with CCP to block discussion of the proposed Declaration. The radical consequence was that for the first time in 45 years, the leaders of Asean had failed to issue a joint statement.

Advocating the SCS Declaration and joint statement were: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Brunei with Myanmar on the fence. Opposed were Cambodia and Laos.

Almost everyone agrees Asean has since been seriously fractured and divided over the SCS and as a whole (with Myanmar swinging back and forth and Thailand lying low to only this year at the Shangri-La security conference in Singapore openly declare support of the ILOS). Hun Sen gets much of the credit blame.

NYT commented on this in 2012 while Cambodia and Hun Sen were Asean chairman....

Cambodia’s time as the chair of Asean has left the regional bloc less united than at any point in its 45-year history, experts said this week

“At recent Asean gatherings, Cambodia has appeared to act as a kind of Chinese proxy,” the article said.

https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/cambodia-spoiled-asean-statement-on-sea-reports-114303/

In an article for Al Jazeera titled “The end of the ‘ASEAN way,’” long-time Philippines-based broadcast journalist Marga Ortigas pointed out that until Cambodia’s Asean summits, most journalists joked that it didn’t really matter if they missed an Asean meeting, as nothing really happened anyway.

Not any longer though. Asean has changed, thanks to Cambodia, Ms. Ortigas wrote.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/china-s-pact-with/2729132.html

And from Australia....

Carlyle Thayer, an expert on Southeast Asia who is a professor at the University of New South Wales didn’t mince words when summing up Cambodia’s [role]: “It’s the most disastrous chairmanship Asean has ever had.”

“By bringing attention to disunity, Cambodia has only brought attention to its role as a client state of China,” Mr. Thayer said.

“Cambodia as chairman has created a rift within Asean,” said independent political analyst Lao Mong Hay. “Cambodia should have played a role as an impartial mediator.”

https://www.cambodiadaily.com/summits/asean-unity-tested-under-cambodias-watch-6272/

The following linked piece discusses the worst aspect as has been pointed out in this post, i.e., the accurate statement that CCP and two non-claimant Asean nations are interfering with the claimant nations and with Asean as a whole....

The recent move by Cambodia and Laos to make a pact with China on how to settle the South China Sea dispute amounted to them interfering with the domestic affairs of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), said former ASEAN Secretary-General Ong Keng Yong.

ASEAN’s Secretary-General Le Luong Minh said ASEAN countries must stick to its common position on the South China Sea based on an agreement adopted in 2012.

However, he added parties concerned which may include several countries may engage China together on the matter. "An ASEAN country cannot negotiate with China on disputes that involve also other ASEAN countries," said Mr Le.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/china-s-pact-with/2729132.html

Finally and conclusively, this analysis.....

Asean needs to accept the reality that it is “broken”. The meetings in Phnom Penh [2012] and Kunming [2016] have shown that China has two Trojan horses within Asean that are happy to do China’s bidding and paralyse Asean when it is in Beijing’s interest to do so. Vientiane and Phnom Penh should realise that currying favour with Beijing is not without its cost and consequences.

Playing the role of Trojan horses sows suspicion and undermines trust amongst the Asean member states. The failure of the Asean foreign ministers to issue the joint statement is symptomatic of Asean’s outmoded institutional design that favours unanimity over function and efficiency.

http://www.todayonline.com/commentary/china-shoots-itself-foot-divide-and-rule-tactics-asean

The US Navy will remain on the scene as it has consistently been in the region for more than 70 years of peace and prosperity. After the Tribunal's ruling in The Hague which is expected early next month it will have a lot more company. It is thereby up to the CCP Dictators in Beijing concerning how all of this goes, i.e., Beijing can continue its unilateral and lawless aggression or it can sit down and talk reasonably with its immediate neighbors about sharing rather than to forsake them and to treat Asean as the enemy to be divided, conquered, subjected against their will.

The Neighbor From Hell CCP knows this.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

India's policy towards SCS, Asean, CCP in Beijing used to be the "Look East" policy. Under the government of PM Narainda Modi however it has become the "Act East Policy" which supports Asean, Japan, Australia and the US in its support of the targets of CCP aggression.

CCP Dictators in Beijing meanwhile continue to have the absolute and undaunted support of Zimbabwe, Gambia, Montenegro, and a couple of dozen other Third World corrupt and ruthless dictatorships. CCP China continues unabated to be the neighbor from hell.

India’s military chiefs to visit Asean countries

As part of government’s ‘Act East Policy’, India has increased its engagement with the Asean countries, both in maritime security and military exercises as well as trade and investments

India’s military chiefs will be visiting Thailand, Myanmar and Malaysia in the coming months to expand military ties, including missile exports, as New Delhi steps up its profile in South-east Asia to counter China’s weight across the region.

After years of hesitation, India has offered the BrahMos cruise missile to Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia. As the world’s fastest cruise anti-ship missile that can be fired from ships, submarines, land as well as from the air, the BrahMos is highly coveted by several countries trying to build up naval muscle, especially in the disputed South China Sea.

In case of Vietnam, China has expressed its reservations against India’s policies to supply weapons. However, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had recently visited Vietnam and Singapore and according to sources the discussions also included export of BrahMos missiles.

http://www.financialexpress.com/article/india-news/indias-military-chiefs-to-visit-asean-countries/298805/

As the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague deals with the UNCILOS this is indeed and international issue that every nation committed to the rule of law needs to defend and support.

[Publicus]

The designated foreign minister in the coming on June 30th government of Philippine Pres-elect Roberto Duterte today called on the international community to actively support the decision expected July 7th of the Phils SCS case by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague against the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

Perfecto Yasay said the Philippines needs broad and active international support if it is stand up the the CCP Bullies of Beijing in their unilateral and arbitrary SCS aggressions. He is of course absolutely correct.

Yasay asks int’l community to help enforce UN ruling

INCOMING Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. has called on the international community to “get their act together” to enforce a United Nations arbitration court’s decision that will likely negate China’s territorial claims and occupation of reefs and shoals in the South China Sea.

Yasay told reporters over the weekend that he was hopeful that neighboring naval powers like Japan would stand by the Philippines in enforcing the ruling.

But to be able to convince China to follow the arbitration ruling, Yasay said, “it’s very important that the international community who is concerned in ensuring the freedom of navigation in the contested area, and the overflight in that area as well and the maritime security over the sea, to get together….”

“That is the principle that we should be guided,” Yasay said.

“The outcome of the decision of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) court is not so much only pertaining to the Philippines’ interest and to the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone in the disputed area, but most importantly, this is a matter of international concern,” Yasay said.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/140499/yasay-asks-intl-community-to-help-enforce-un-ruling

CCP Dictators in Beijing meanwhile continue to enjoy the purchased support of equally slimy governments such as Lesoto, Togo, Vinuato, Sudan.

Here's a recent listing of countries that have announced support of CCP, or denied CCP claims of their support; or which have conversely and publicly stated their support of the Iclos treaty and the coming decision of the PCA in the Hague.

http://amti.csis.org/arbitration-support-tracker/

Edited June 28, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

It's getting time in Beijing.

CCP Dictators have made clear they will withdraw from the UNILOS treaty if the ruling of the Arbitral Court in The Hague goes against the CCP in the SCS, as almost everyone expects it will.

The PLA-controlled online and print rag Global Times said as much. Global Times is not the ultimate voice of the CCP -- People's Daily -- but it almost always speaks with the authority of the state looking over its shoulder.

Global Times has put it this way as to why CCP would quit the treaty due to an ruling adverse to it....

"...it [CCP] would be protected against similar future claims brought by Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia with regard to the South China Sea, or by Japan with regard to the East China Sea. It [CCP] it would have good reasons to do so if its territorial sovereignty was undermined by a decision of an arbitral tribunal established under the Convention."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/971707.shtml

A major flaw and fault of CCP is that they have tried to frame the SCS issues as a matter of Chinese sovereignty, which it is not. The Tribunal in The Hague is examining features in the SCS, ranging from a rock to a reef, an islet, island, archipelago etc. The specific maritime features that the ILOS recognises as having a coastal zone or not, a territorial zone or not, an EEZ or not.

A rock for instance has a 50-meter safety zone only. An artificial island built on a reef submerged at high tide gets a 3-mile safety zone, if that, depending on who else may claim the reef as within its own zone under the ILOS.

UN does not rule on matters of state sovereignty. All the governments of UN member states prohibit it in a unanimous agreement from the start of the UN in 1946 to the present. It's the proverbial snowball's chance in hell. Rather, UNILOS is intended to help clarify under a rule-based system consistently applied over time the categorising of maritime features and thereby assign a zone(s) or not assign one under a mutually agreed international law.

This is not what CCP has in mind or in store and everyone in the region (and elsewhere) know it, which is why the US Navy is on the scene and will remain indefinitely or as necessitated by the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

The GT / PD is a published mouthpiece that the mainstream Chinese don't really read ...similar to Fox ? And if they read it ...isn't that similar to USA ? It's a freedom of choice ?

Most businessman / youths don't read these news publication ; my daily read is WSJ / ST / BP / Times / SMCP

Like I mention before, VPN is used widely in China , maybe comrade P have not figured out how easy it is to download that in your PC / smartphone and you can access everything just like a regular Chinese.

Having the US navy at scene is not a deterrent but a ridiculous show of force for something that both countries agree will never be a military campaign

However the USA foreign affairs and solutions is limited to often interfering show of force ...I can imagine if Trump the carrot head wins how many times the moron will threaten the use of force and not do it because he is gutless or just plain stupid

China is committed to negotiations and trade deals for a middle path, the USA is committed to driving arm sales in a region which does not need one and escalating tension for nothing , however the arms factories do contribute a lot of money to the campaigns and must be kept happy right ?

I would say ratify the UNILOS first ....why is this difficult for congress or your senators to ratify it ? How difficult or how busy are these guys ? Why won't you sign it ? Because you can ? From a matter of principle like the Brits have , why not sign and ratify it ?

I would say ratify the UNILOS first ....why is this difficult for congress or your senators to ratify it ?

Since adoption by 167 nations of the UNCLOS in 1982, a handful of various Republican rightwingnoid US senators have had a "hold" (stop) on consideration of the treaty which was signed by Potus. So US Government in fact observes the ILOS treaty.

If CCP Dictators in Beijing withdraw from the UNCILOS they will forfeit their claims to someday being a superpower.

CCP is currently trying to become a regional power. This is the necessary prerequisite to becoming a global power, and then to eventually -- perhaps -- become a superpower. Perhaps.

CCP is however surrounded by democratic states that are wealthy, high tech, have strong military forces supported by the USA and which oppose CCP's aggressions in the East Sea against Japan and in the SCS against Asean. These advanced countries further hold CCP in check in respect of the country of Taiwan which is in fact a Republic governed by democracy.

Here's the scoop from Tara Davenport who is a non-resident research fellow at the Centre for International Law of the National University of Singapore, writing of the strong possibility CCP will quit the UNCILOS.....

China’s withdrawal from UNCLOS would undermine the already fragile belief in China’s commitment to a “peaceful rise” as a global superpower. UNCLOS establishes certain baseline expectations of how States should behave in the oceans and has hitherto provided a language through which the Claimants, even China, have communicated their positions and claims. As tensions in the South China Sea escalate on a daily basis, denouncing UNCLOS could irretrievably damage the trust and confidence of States in the region. This would consequently derail any of China’s efforts to pursue its preferred course of action, namely a negotiated solution of the South China Sea disputes.

China’s potential non-compliance with the final award will inevitably harm its standing as a lawabiding member of the international community. To compound that with a knee-jerk denunciation of a long-standing and widely accepted legal regime could have far-reaching implications that are at odds with China’s long-term national interests. The non-ratification of UNCLOS by the United States is tolerated because the U.S. is perceived as faithfully complying with the UNCLOS regime. China’s denunciation after a tribunal has found its actions in the South China Sea contrary to UNCLOS will not be interpreted in the same light. There are many courses of action China can take after the Award is issued. Denouncing UNCLOS should not be one of them.

http://cil.nus.edu.sg/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Tara-Davenport-24Mar2016-Why-China-Shouldnt-Denounce-UNCLOS.pdf

It is long past time the Central Kingdom entered the modern world.