US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[55Jay]

Anyone that gets excited over the rant above on arm sales is exactly who we don't want on the council negotiating for the islands

The preference to sell arms to ensure everyone gets a destructive piece / capability and then gleefully think this will tilt the scales is nuts

If everyone gets that same amount of enthusiasm to sit on a table and try to cobble a deal, that's more sensible and useful to the region rather than selling arms

Lawrence, what negotiating council are you referring to?

----------

Chinese say they (and Russia) need to be cautious about any forced arbitration - of course referring to foreigners meddling in what they see, and have demonstrated to the world, is in fact "their" neighborhood. They even drew up some new maps to prove it is.

http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea-controversy-russia-beijing-call-negotiation-consultation-settle-2355906

Analogies are being used because you seem to (continuously) ignore the central point that China has literally created and intensified these disputes, and its own President has said he would go to war to defend China's unilateral claim(s). But, let's negotiate? Now THAT is some forced arbitration for you right there.

Yet another analogy would be telling a rape victim in highly dismissive, arrogant way, that she ought to quit whining about what's happened, get over it, and engage in some friendly negotiations with her rapist.

[LawrenceChee]

Anyone that gets excited over the rant above on arm sales is exactly who we don't want on the council negotiating for the islands

The preference to sell arms to ensure everyone gets a destructive piece / capability and then gleefully think this will tilt the scales is nuts

If everyone gets that same amount of enthusiasm to sit on a table and try to cobble a deal, that's more sensible and useful to the region rather than selling arms

Lawrence, what negotiating council are you referring to?

----------

Chinese say they (and Russia) need to be cautious about any forced arbitration - of course referring to foreigners meddling in what they see, and have demonstrated to the world, is in fact "their" neighborhood. They even drew up some new maps to prove it is.

http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea-controversy-russia-beijing-call-negotiation-consultation-settle-2355906

Analogies are being used because you seem to (continuously) ignore the central point that China has literally created and intensified these disputes, and its own President has said he would go to war to defend China's unilateral claim(s). But, let's negotiate? Now THAT is some forced arbitration for you right there.

Yet another analogy would be telling a rape victim in highly dismissive, arrogant way, that she ought to quit whining about what's happened, get over it, and engage in some friendly negotiations with her rapist.

Its simple ...it called bilateral negotiations ...one at a time ...as every ASEAN country wants something different

Why bore everyone with the same meeting room when everyone want something different

You can't be serious thinking Singapore and Laos would want the same thing from China or trade something similar ?

[keemapoot]

Lawrence, what negotiating council are you referring to?

----------

Chinese say they (and Russia) need to be cautious about any forced arbitration - of course referring to foreigners meddling in what they see, and have demonstrated to the world, is in fact "their" neighborhood. They even drew up some new maps to prove it is.

http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea-controversy-russia-beijing-call-negotiation-consultation-settle-2355906

Analogies are being used because you seem to (continuously) ignore the central point that China has literally created and intensified these disputes, and its own President has said he would go to war to defend China's unilateral claim(s). But, let's negotiate? Now THAT is some forced arbitration for you right there.

Yet another analogy would be telling a rape victim in highly dismissive, arrogant way, that she ought to quit whining about what's happened, get over it, and engage in some friendly negotiations with her rapist.

Its simple ...it called bilateral negotiations ...one at a time ...as every ASEAN country wants something different

Why bore everyone with the same meeting room when everyone want something different

You can't be serious thinking Singapore and Laos would want the same thing from China or trade something similar ?

Yes...and No, Lawrence. China wants to isolate negotiations with each country so that there is no collective bargaining power, when in fact, many of the claims are similar in all the cases. Classically, by isolating each party, each small fry has less negotiating power than if they formed collective effort on common complaints.

So, true, they all have different needs, but common interests in not being unilaterally bullied by the big bad red dragon. This is where the US, and G-7, and other bigger players come in, by guaranteeing equal bargaining position.

Meanwhile, this week Wednesday ASEAN defense ministers met in Vientiane and the following result:

VIENTIANE (PNA/Kyodo) — Issues relating to the South China Sea dispute were a highlight of the annual meeting of Association of Southeast Asian Nations’ (ASEAN) defense ministers in the Laotian capital Vientiane on Wednesday, as China’s aggressive actions in pressing contested claims to territory in the water continues to raise tension in the region.

Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/asean-defense-ministers-meet-to-discuss-s-china-sea-security/#mE5EcDkI8xhKWVCW.99

According to a draft of the meeting’s joint declaration, seen by Kyodo News, the politicians will underscore “the commitment of all parties to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea and ASEAN’s six points on South China Sea.”

The ministers will also reiterate “the importance of maintaining peace, stability and security as well as upholding freedom of navigation in, and over-flight above, the South China Sea as provided for by universally recognized principles of international law,” the draft said.

Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/asean-defense-ministers-meet-to-discuss-s-china-sea-security/#mE5EcDkI8xhKWVCW.99

[LawrenceChee]

Lawrence, what negotiating council are you referring to?

----------

Chinese say they (and Russia) need to be cautious about any forced arbitration - of course referring to foreigners meddling in what they see, and have demonstrated to the world, is in fact "their" neighborhood. They even drew up some new maps to prove it is.

http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea-controversy-russia-beijing-call-negotiation-consultation-settle-2355906

Analogies are being used because you seem to (continuously) ignore the central point that China has literally created and intensified these disputes, and its own President has said he would go to war to defend China's unilateral claim(s). But, let's negotiate? Now THAT is some forced arbitration for you right there.

Yet another analogy would be telling a rape victim in highly dismissive, arrogant way, that she ought to quit whining about what's happened, get over it, and engage in some friendly negotiations with her rapist.

Its simple ...it called bilateral negotiations ...one at a time ...as every ASEAN country wants something different

Why bore everyone with the same meeting room when everyone want something different

You can't be serious thinking Singapore and Laos would want the same thing from China or trade something similar ?

Yes...and No, Lawrence. China wants to isolate negotiations with each country so that there is no collective bargaining power, when in fact, many of the claims are similar in all the cases. Classically, by isolating each party, each small fry has less negotiating power than if they formed collective effort on common complaints.

So, true, they all have different needs, but common interests in not being unilaterally bullied by the big bad red dragon. This is where the US, and G-7, and other bigger players come in, by guaranteeing equal bargaining position.

Meanwhile, this week Wednesday ASEAN defense ministers met in Vientiane and the following result:

VIENTIANE (PNA/Kyodo) — Issues relating to the South China Sea dispute were a highlight of the annual meeting of Association of Southeast Asian Nations’ (ASEAN) defense ministers in the Laotian capital Vientiane on Wednesday, as China’s aggressive actions in pressing contested claims to territory in the water continues to raise tension in the region.

Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/asean-defense-ministers-meet-to-discuss-s-china-sea-security/#mE5EcDkI8xhKWVCW.99

According to a draft of the meeting’s joint declaration, seen by Kyodo News, the politicians will underscore “the commitment of all parties to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea and ASEAN’s six points on South China Sea.”

The ministers will also reiterate “the importance of maintaining peace, stability and security as well as upholding freedom of navigation in, and over-flight above, the South China Sea as provided for by universally recognized principles of international law,” the draft said.

Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/asean-defense-ministers-meet-to-discuss-s-china-sea-security/#mE5EcDkI8xhKWVCW.99

Smart man

[tonbridgebrit]

Are you joking. Who says China got to the Spratly islands first? Those islands are quite near the Philippines. It's natural to assume Phil fishermen got there first. Just because Fils didn't plant a flag or build an airstrip, doesn't mean they were not there first. Or perhaps it was Europeans, hence the name Spratly. The same name which traditional Chinese maps used. Plus, Chinese maps dating back hundreds of years never included those islands as part of China. It's only in recent decades they've started to do that, along with placing Chinese names on them.

And that nine-dash map. Where did it really come from? Is it over a hundred years old? Verifiable? Regardless, it's the cheapest of cheap shots to show a primitive sketch of the area with dashed lines and use it as confirmation that the Philippine islands are Chinese. It would be silly, were it not for serious ramifications.

Boomer, let's say IF European sailors got to the Spratly Islands first.

Well, surely, it would be absurd if Europe was to now claim them Spratly Islands ??

[Publicus]

Anyone that gets excited over the rant above on arm sales is exactly who we don't want on the council negotiating for the islands

The preference to sell arms to ensure everyone gets a destructive piece / capability and then gleefully think this will tilt the scales is nuts

If everyone gets that same amount of enthusiasm to sit on a table and try to cobble a deal, that's more sensible and useful to the region rather than selling arms

the council negotiating for the islands

Asean is the only council in the region for CCP Dictators to deal with yet CCP refuses any and all "council" discussions and CCP refuses it in the absolute. Yes CCP Dictators demand without compromise the bilateral state by state capitulation of each Asean state to CCP's absolute, indisputable, unyielding, outside the international system 100% demands. This presumptive arrogance is rejected by Asean states individually and as a whole.

CCP revanchist and irredentist Dictators have shredded the Asean initiated 2002 Code of Conduct for the SCS. CCP did this at the 2012 Asean annual meeting in Cambodia led by the CCP's Favorite Boy Hun Sen who has since been humbled by Asean states and now keeps his head down in SCS matters. At the same meeting, CCP Dictators tossed into the bin the Asean proposed Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea, proposed again by Asean and which would have fine tuned the CoC and extended it, particularly concerning Vietnam and the Philippines.

CCP does not negotiate, it demands in the absolute. CCP does not accept modifications or alterations to that which in Beijing is "indisputable." CCP does not accept arbitration, rational guidance or the rule of law unless it is CCP law. Party lawyers and doctrines of law are Party made law, so CCP cannot interact with the regional system of laws nor can it deal with the international system of laws.

Yet the only "council" dealing with the CCP created disputes and animosities in the SCS is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague which is measuring the application of the UNCLOS. CCP absolutely and summarily refuses to participate in the international system except insofar as it complies with its Party law and its Party "legal" doctrines.

The international legal system from Asean to The Hague may as well be talking to the man in the moon. It is in fact doing exactly that.

This is the same reason why comrade P needs to reexamine some of his posts as he gleefully snacks China with vile remarks and yet think this partnership of Vietnam and USA bears all merits and rights

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Fooled the USA once and won't be surprised if they catch Uncle Sam with their pants down again using the current situation to their advantage to get the arms they want

Any arms escalation is bad news and logical people should be using trade to overwhelm this desire to have arms

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Frankly speaking, one of the strongest two or three defining features of this part of the world is that it retains its thousands of years old Old World obsessions about having and keeping secrets. Every government and each person does in fact have confidential or personal features, characteristics, traits, that deserve to be protected against the invasive scrutiny of others outside of one's trusted personal circle. Over the past 100 years and during the past 50 years especially, the Chinese, if they ever had been inscrutable, have since become blatantly obvious.

Accept the fact and deal with it. Old World people and cultures are predictable because they always were and remain simple minded. When for instance one finds boxes within boxes, one deals immediately with it by instantly penetrating through the layers of cardboard like a hot knife through soft butter to get to the core box in no time at all.

In a post above you said China learns fast. Fact is, that means it is able to figure out what's happening in about 100 years. In this instance of the SCS, the international system passed it by in 1982 when the UNCLOS was adopted. So that on an abacus will take youse guyz to 2082 but certainly not any sooner. So rotsa ruck in the meantime to the merchants of green cheese.

[boomerangutang]

Its simple ...it called bilateral negotiations ...one at a time ...as every ASEAN country wants something different

Why bore everyone with the same meeting room when everyone want something different

You can't be serious thinking Singapore and Laos would want the same thing from China or trade something similar ?

I've pointed this out several times, but LC either can't comprehend it or is so shellacked with Beijing propaganda that he (like all Chinese) doesn't want to see reality.

China is breaking international law. Countries are not allowed to commandeer other countries' territory. China knows it's breaking laws, that's why it doesn't want anything to do with any international tribunals. It doesn't want to deal with a bloc of countries because it knows it can get better deals by negotiating individually. Some countries will be easy to sway, just by payoffs and gifts. Others not so easy: China may have to share profits from oil sales. Yet others may not want to make any deal at all, and simply want to keep their territory. The fact remains that all the countries are concerned (and probably angry) that China is grabbing their territory, giving it new names, and claiming it as Chinese. China won't retreat back to China by any means other than being forced by military might/threats, so it's incumbent upon the US to partner with aggrieved countries and forcefully push Chinese back to China.

Whether HRC or Trump takes office in January, China is going to face a hard spanking.

[LawrenceChee]

Anyone that gets excited over the rant above on arm sales is exactly who we don't want on the council negotiating for the islands

The preference to sell arms to ensure everyone gets a destructive piece / capability and then gleefully think this will tilt the scales is nuts

If everyone gets that same amount of enthusiasm to sit on a table and try to cobble a deal, that's more sensible and useful to the region rather than selling arms

the council negotiating for the islands

Asean is the only council in the region for CCP Dictators to deal with yet CCP refuses any and all "council" discussions and CCP refuses it in the absolute. Yes CCP Dictators demand without compromise the bilateral state by state capitulation of each Asean state to CCP's absolute, indisputable, unyielding, outside the international system 100% demands. This presumptive arrogance is rejected by Asean states individually and as a whole.

CCP revanchist and irredentist Dictators have shredded the Asean initiated 2002 Code of Conduct for the SCS. CCP did this at the 2012 Asean annual meeting in Cambodia led by the CCP's Favorite Boy Hun Sen who has since been humbled by Asean states and now keeps his head down in SCS matters. At the same meeting, CCP Dictators tossed into the bin the Asean proposed Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea, proposed again by Asean and which would have fine tuned the CoC and extended it, particularly concerning Vietnam and the Philippines.

CCP does not negotiate, it demands in the absolute. CCP does not accept modifications or alterations to that which in Beijing is "indisputable." CCP does not accept arbitration, rational guidance or the rule of law unless it is CCP law. Party lawyers and doctrines of law are Party made law, so CCP cannot interact with the regional system of laws nor can it deal with the international system of laws.

Yet the only "council" dealing with the CCP created disputes and animosities in the SCS is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague which is measuring the application of the UNCLOS. CCP absolutely and summarily refuses to participate in the international system except insofar as it complies with its Party law and its Party "legal" doctrines.

The international legal system from Asean to The Hague may as well be talking to the man in the moon. It is in fact doing exactly that.

This is the same reason why comrade P needs to reexamine some of his posts as he gleefully snacks China with vile remarks and yet think this partnership of Vietnam and USA bears all merits and rights

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Fooled the USA once and won't be surprised if they catch Uncle Sam with their pants down again using the current situation to their advantage to get the arms they want

Any arms escalation is bad news and logical people should be using trade to overwhelm this desire to have arms

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Frankly speaking, one of the strongest two or three defining features of this part of the world is that it retains its thousands of years old Old World obsessions about having and keeping secrets. Every government and each person does in fact have confidential or personal features, characteristics, traits, that deserve to be protected against the invasive scrutiny of others outside of one's trusted personal circle. Over the past 100 years and during the past 50 years especially, the Chinese, if they ever had been inscrutable, have since become blatantly obvious.

Accept the fact and deal with it. Old World people and cultures are predictable because they always were and remain simple minded. When for instance one finds boxes within boxes, one deals immediately with it by instantly penetrating through the layers of cardboard like a hot knife through soft butter to get to the core box in no time at all.

In a post above you said China learns fast. Fact is, that means it is able to figure out what's happening in about 100 years. In this instance of the SCS, the international system passed it by in 1982 when the UNCLOS was adopted. So that on an abacus will take youse guyz to 2082 but certainly not any sooner. So rotsa ruck in the meantime to the merchants of green cheese.

Strange by this marker stated why won't USA sign a TPP agreement with the entire ASEAN but selected partners only like Singapore Vietnam ...

You can see P ...superpowers deal with circumstances like this .,,you pick your partners and have a say in it

China is similarly picking the same partners who want to work with them

[keemapoot]

Anyone that gets excited over the rant above on arm sales is exactly who we don't want on the council negotiating for the islands

The preference to sell arms to ensure everyone gets a destructive piece / capability and then gleefully think this will tilt the scales is nuts

If everyone gets that same amount of enthusiasm to sit on a table and try to cobble a deal, that's more sensible and useful to the region rather than selling arms

the council negotiating for the islands

Asean is the only council in the region for CCP Dictators to deal with yet CCP refuses any and all "council" discussions and CCP refuses it in the absolute. Yes CCP Dictators demand without compromise the bilateral state by state capitulation of each Asean state to CCP's absolute, indisputable, unyielding, outside the international system 100% demands. This presumptive arrogance is rejected by Asean states individually and as a whole.

CCP revanchist and irredentist Dictators have shredded the Asean initiated 2002 Code of Conduct for the SCS. CCP did this at the 2012 Asean annual meeting in Cambodia led by the CCP's Favorite Boy Hun Sen who has since been humbled by Asean states and now keeps his head down in SCS matters. At the same meeting, CCP Dictators tossed into the bin the Asean proposed Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea, proposed again by Asean and which would have fine tuned the CoC and extended it, particularly concerning Vietnam and the Philippines.

CCP does not negotiate, it demands in the absolute. CCP does not accept modifications or alterations to that which in Beijing is "indisputable." CCP does not accept arbitration, rational guidance or the rule of law unless it is CCP law. Party lawyers and doctrines of law are Party made law, so CCP cannot interact with the regional system of laws nor can it deal with the international system of laws.

Yet the only "council" dealing with the CCP created disputes and animosities in the SCS is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague which is measuring the application of the UNCLOS. CCP absolutely and summarily refuses to participate in the international system except insofar as it complies with its Party law and its Party "legal" doctrines.

The international legal system from Asean to The Hague may as well be talking to the man in the moon. It is in fact doing exactly that.

This is the same reason why comrade P needs to reexamine some of his posts as he gleefully snacks China with vile remarks and yet think this partnership of Vietnam and USA bears all merits and rights

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Fooled the USA once and won't be surprised if they catch Uncle Sam with their pants down again using the current situation to their advantage to get the arms they want

Any arms escalation is bad news and logical people should be using trade to overwhelm this desire to have arms

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Frankly speaking, one of the strongest two or three defining features of this part of the world is that it retains its thousands of years old Old World obsessions about having and keeping secrets. Every government and each person does in fact have confidential or personal features, characteristics, traits, that deserve to be protected against the invasive scrutiny of others outside of one's trusted personal circle. Over the past 100 years and during the past 50 years especially, the Chinese, if they ever had been inscrutable, have since become blatantly obvious.

Accept the fact and deal with it. Old World people and cultures are predictable because they always were and remain simple minded. When for instance one finds boxes within boxes, one deals immediately with it by instantly penetrating through the layers of cardboard like a hot knife through soft butter to get to the core box in no time at all.

In a post above you said China learns fast. Fact is, that means it is able to figure out what's happening in about 100 years. In this instance of the SCS, the international system passed it by in 1982 when the UNCLOS was adopted. So that on an abacus will take youse guyz to 2082 but certainly not any sooner. So rotsa ruck in the meantime to the merchants of green cheese.

Strange by this marker stated why won't USA sign a TPP agreement with the entire ASEAN but selected partners only like Singapore Vietnam ...

You can see P ...superpowers deal with circumstances like this .,,you pick your partners and have a say in it

China is similarly picking the same partners who want to work with them

Yup, I'm going to post some interesting facts about Vietnam alone given to me this morning on an intelligence update and TPP here to illustrate your point, and how Vietnam was chosen as the most strategic partner, and how TPP is designed to benefit it the most of any TPP country. Very smart diplomatic and strategic moves by the USA to help contain China in the SCS, while at the same time, not harm relations between Vietnam and China.

Vietnam would be the largest beneficiary of this trade pact. Statistics show that by participating in the TPP, Vietnam’s GDP would add an additional increase of 13.6% to the baseline scenario. According to the World Bank and other institutions, Vietnam’s GDP in 2020 will increase by USD 23.5 billion and USD33.5 billion in 2035. Export value will also increase by USD 68 billion in 2025. Vietnam’s real income by 2025 is also forecast to increase by 10.5%, leaving Malaysia’s as the second highest income rising country out of the TPP members far behind at 5.6%.

TTP will help Vietnam balance relationships with key markets, approach larger markets including the U.S, Japan, Canada, boost import-export, reduce import deficit, and attract foreign investment. In addition, TTP will also help Vietnam’s economy allocate its resources more effectively, enabling active supports to the processes of restructuring, innovation and improving regulations, and improve administrative reforms.

Vietnam’s participation in the TPP will not harm Vietnam – China trade. I note that Vietnam has great trade deficits with China. However, while China is the biggest trading partner of Vietnam in terms of two-way trade, the United States is still Vietnam’s largest market. By being part of the TPP, Vietnam can take advantage of this opportunity to access to other TPP members’ market, improve its competitive capacity, thus reducing its reliance on China. Vietnam – China trade relations will then be improved towards better balance, stability and for mutual benefits.

[LawrenceChee]

I agree

In the southern region, there is a lot of talk about engaging ASEAN more and while this is not endorsed by the north, strategically the south provinces will move faster to integrate the trade zones and increase the touch points

The south has always been more pragmatic and less restrained in trade deals with anyone ...much of the trade done with Taiwan is engaged by the southern provinces and similarity like me

We have nothing against Taiwan and the war rhetorics will go on for the next 100+ years and I will tell you from the councils here nobody is going shoot shit while their $$ is tied both sides

Talk, posture a bit yes ...but trade prevails and there is enough balanced individuals advising the councils there ...no one wants war but the constant provocation of the west as seen in China's eyes is like irritating flies during the hot summer months

Buzzing like an irritant and cant do much

[keemapoot]

And this just out of Vietnam, again showing the US pivot point for SCS clearly, and why defeating Trump is so important this November for this long-articulated, and carefully strategized policy to play out:

Vietnam’s foreign investment surges to over $10 billion in Jan-May

Thanh Nien News

Vietnam has been promised $10.15 billion of foreign direct investment in the first five months this year, up a staggering 136 percent from a year ago, according to new data.

A statement from the Ministry of Investment and Planning said Vietnam licensed 907 new foreign projects worth $7.56 billion. Another $2.59 billion was registered for existing projects.

[keemapoot]

the council negotiating for the islands

Asean is the only council in the region for CCP Dictators to deal with yet CCP refuses any and all "council" discussions and CCP refuses it in the absolute. Yes CCP Dictators demand without compromise the bilateral state by state capitulation of each Asean state to CCP's absolute, indisputable, unyielding, outside the international system 100% demands. This presumptive arrogance is rejected by Asean states individually and as a whole.

CCP revanchist and irredentist Dictators have shredded the Asean initiated 2002 Code of Conduct for the SCS. CCP did this at the 2012 Asean annual meeting in Cambodia led by the CCP's Favorite Boy Hun Sen who has since been humbled by Asean states and now keeps his head down in SCS matters. At the same meeting, CCP Dictators tossed into the bin the Asean proposed Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea, proposed again by Asean and which would have fine tuned the CoC and extended it, particularly concerning Vietnam and the Philippines.

CCP does not negotiate, it demands in the absolute. CCP does not accept modifications or alterations to that which in Beijing is "indisputable." CCP does not accept arbitration, rational guidance or the rule of law unless it is CCP law. Party lawyers and doctrines of law are Party made law, so CCP cannot interact with the regional system of laws nor can it deal with the international system of laws.

Yet the only "council" dealing with the CCP created disputes and animosities in the SCS is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague which is measuring the application of the UNCLOS. CCP absolutely and summarily refuses to participate in the international system except insofar as it complies with its Party law and its Party "legal" doctrines.

The international legal system from Asean to The Hague may as well be talking to the man in the moon. It is in fact doing exactly that.

This is the same reason why comrade P needs to reexamine some of his posts as he gleefully snacks China with vile remarks and yet think this partnership of Vietnam and USA bears all merits and rights

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Fooled the USA once and won't be surprised if they catch Uncle Sam with their pants down again using the current situation to their advantage to get the arms they want

Any arms escalation is bad news and logical people should be using trade to overwhelm this desire to have arms

Vietnam remains a communist state and like a good old commie has aplenty of secrets that they are keeping from its old foe

Frankly speaking, one of the strongest two or three defining features of this part of the world is that it retains its thousands of years old Old World obsessions about having and keeping secrets. Every government and each person does in fact have confidential or personal features, characteristics, traits, that deserve to be protected against the invasive scrutiny of others outside of one's trusted personal circle. Over the past 100 years and during the past 50 years especially, the Chinese, if they ever had been inscrutable, have since become blatantly obvious.

Accept the fact and deal with it. Old World people and cultures are predictable because they always were and remain simple minded. When for instance one finds boxes within boxes, one deals immediately with it by instantly penetrating through the layers of cardboard like a hot knife through soft butter to get to the core box in no time at all.

In a post above you said China learns fast. Fact is, that means it is able to figure out what's happening in about 100 years. In this instance of the SCS, the international system passed it by in 1982 when the UNCLOS was adopted. So that on an abacus will take youse guyz to 2082 but certainly not any sooner. So rotsa ruck in the meantime to the merchants of green cheese.

Strange by this marker stated why won't USA sign a TPP agreement with the entire ASEAN but selected partners only like Singapore Vietnam ...

You can see P ...superpowers deal with circumstances like this .,,you pick your partners and have a say in it

China is similarly picking the same partners who want to work with them

In light of the US stealing the spotlight in Vietnam and Japan, here's some news out of Vientiane today about China reaching out to Indo unilaterally for a friend in the South China Sea:

BEIJING: China wants deeper military ties with Indonesia and will strengthen cooperation on bilateral and multilateral issues, China's defence minister told his Indonesian counterpart, after a recent diplomatic spat in the South China Sea.

In March, Indonesia attempted to detain a Chinese trawler it accused of fishing in its exclusive economic zone in the South China Sea, prompting the Chinese coastguard to intervene.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/after-sea-spat-china-ple/2821278.html

Nice try, but pretty feeble.

[55Jay]

Not surprising China making overtures to Indo. Indo stood up to them. That's the only way to deal with a bully on the school yard playground.

Seems the Argentinians don't put up with any Chinese nonsense either.

[Publicus]

CCP Klutzes in Beijing strike out again. These guyz need to go grab some bench for a while.

CCP has chosen to lose all of Asean in the SCS in favor of being supported against the ILOS by, most recently, Mozambique, Burundi, Slovenia, Togo, Vanatu, Lesoto.

CCP's Three Warfares of the 21st century have already become one big joke (psychological, media, lawfare).

Indonesia urges all countries to maintain rule of law in maritime disputes

Fri, May 27 2016

The Jakarta Post

Indonesia has reinstated its call on Asian nations to maintain the rule of law in settling any international dispute, including maritime territorial spats in the South China Sea and tensions in the Korean Peninsula.

The statement was made by President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo during the first session of the G7's outreach meeting on Friday, which involves a number of non-member Asian countries, including Vietnam -- one of the most vocal claimants in the South China Sea disputes.

"Indonesia would like to stress that all countries should respect international law with no exceptions," said Jokowi who was one of the lead speakers in Friday's outreach meeting session in Ise-Shima, Japan.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/05/27/indonesia-urges-all-countries-to-maintain-rule-of-law-in-maritime-disputes.html

The above and the following below look from here more like another 19th nervous breakdown for the new and young dynasty of CCP emperors in business suits who are having a hard time getting any respect.

For one vital thing, CCP can no longer dictate to Moscow what weapons it cannot sell to Vietnam and very soon to include other Asean countries which Moscow supplies. This is so because Vietnam and other Asean countries are turning now to the US for their defenses against the CCP Klutzes in Beijing who are the champs at knowing how to turn friends into enemies.

China faces headaches from warming Vietnam-U.S. ties

At a stroke, the U.S. and Vietnam have complicated the strategic outlook for China over the disputed South China Sea.

Regional military sources and security analysts say China will face short and longer term strategic headaches from the fully normalized relationship between former enemies in Hanoi and Washington.

"The U.S. sees opportunity and demand opening up in various other countries, such as Laos and Cambodia, which use weapons from Russia and China," said Panitan Wattanayagorn, an adviser to Thailand's Defence Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-headache-idUSKCN0YI0FK

And here's another good one out of Beijing...

BEIJING (Reuters) – Taking a dig at the U.S. arms embargo against China, the Chinese Defence Ministry said on Thursday all such U.S. embargoes were a relic of the Cold War and should be lifted, after the U.S. fully removed one against Vietnam.

The United States placed an arms embargo on China following the bloody crackdown on pro-democracy protesters around Beijing’s Tiananmen Square in 1989. The European Union has a similar embargo.

China is Vietnam’s biggest trade partner and source of imports. But bilateral trade with the United States has swelled ten-fold over the past two decades to about $45 billion (30.5 billion pounds). Vietnam is also now Southeast Asia’s biggest exporter to America.

http://www.euronews.com/newswires/3198847-in-dig-at-us-china-says-all-us-arms-embargoes-should-go/

[boomerangutang]

Are you joking. Who says China got to the Spratly islands first? Those islands are quite near the Philippines. It's natural to assume Phil fishermen got there first. Just because Fils didn't plant a flag or build an airstrip, doesn't mean they were not there first. Or perhaps it was Europeans, hence the name Spratly. The same name which traditional Chinese maps used. Plus, Chinese maps dating back hundreds of years never included those islands as part of China. It's only in recent decades they've started to do that, along with placing Chinese names on them.

And that nine-dash map. Where did it really come from? Is it over a hundred years old? Verifiable? Regardless, it's the cheapest of cheap shots to show a primitive sketch of the area with dashed lines and use it as confirmation that the Philippine islands are Chinese. It would be silly, were it not for serious ramifications.

Boomer, let's say IF European sailors got to the Spratly Islands first.

Well, surely, it would be absurd if Europe was to now claim them Spratly Islands ??

Not surprising China making overtures to Indo. Indo stood up to them. That's the only way to deal with a bully on the school yard playground.

Seems the Argentinians don't put up with any Chinese nonsense either.

Thanks for that link about Argentina clashing with Chinese fishing boat. It's surprising there aren't a whole lot more incidents like that worldwide Asian fishing vessels in particular are prowling everywhere they can get to, to get sharks fins - a disgusting trade which is decimating shark numbers ww. Ships that harvest shark fins should be sunk, period.

Thais have no problem with wiping out sharks, and there are dozens of shops in Bkk which openly peddle sharks fin. Yet another proof of the chummy ties (Thais that bind) between China and Thailand. Partners in wiping out sharks. They're even targeting whale sharks, the biggest fish in the sea. Lumbering giants that scoop up krill.

[boomerangutang]

I just watched the brief video of the Indonesian vs Chinese fishing vessel. Wow, it's happening more and more. Interesting that there are always armed Chinese vessels nearby. It happened in both the Argentine debacle and the Indonesian one. There must be thousands of Chinese armed vessels all over the seas, for them to be able to respond with such alacrity. It looks like yet more Chinese aggression, and the drill goes something like this:

One or more Chinese fishing vessels go forth to fish within another country's EE zone. The other country's defense force sends response. However, the Chinese fishing vessel is in constant contact with armed Chinese vessels nearby. It's obvious both the fishing vessel and its guardian vessel(s) know there's a breach of territory. Oh, and of course, Chinese officialdom will always claim they were not in the offended country's EEZ, and then act offended/aghast that any incident took place.

The rest of the world should be wary of Chinese intrusions. Go by what they do, not what they say. Actions speak louder than words.

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-pushes-patriotic-tours-south-china-sea-report-053359842.html



Okay,let's all have a giggle over this. Basically, China might turn some of the contested islands in the South China Sea into tourist attractions !!!!

Suppsedly, Woody Island in the contested Paracels chain might be one of the places. Yes, I really do think China will do it. And once again, the issue of the Chinese tourists dominates or influences whatever situation.


I mean, I think we all know that Pattaya is being flooded by them Chinese tourists. They're going to have to build a lot of new hotels to cater for the increasing numbers of Chinese tourists.


And here's a link from the Vietnam National Administration of Tourism.
http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/items/10508

Notice how during the five months of 2016, Vietnam has recieved about a million tourists from China. No other country comes anywhere near this number. South Korea is second with a bit more than six hundred thousand. And the USA ? About 250,000 !

There's people here on ThaiVisa who love to ignore or down-play the massive influence China has on the Vietnamese economy. And America's pivot to the Pacific ? Well, at what point in time will ASEAN's trade with America become greater than it's trade with China ? How about, never ?


And back to Vietnam. Twenty per cent of their exports go to America, ten per cent to China. But their imports, a staggering 30% is from China, 4.4% is from the USA. And here's the link from the CIA World Factbook. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html

[tonbridgebrit]

Vietnam would be the largest beneficiary of this trade pact. Statistics show that by participating in the TPP, Vietnam’s GDP would add an additional increase of 13.6% to the baseline scenario. According to the World Bank and other institutions, Vietnam’s GDP in 2020 will increase by USD 23.5 billion and USD33.5 billion in 2035. Export value will also increase by USD 68 billion in 2025. Vietnam’s real income by 2025 is also forecast to increase by 10.5%, leaving Malaysia’s as the second highest income rising country out of the TPP members far behind at 5.6%.

TTP will help Vietnam balance relationships with key markets, approach larger markets including the U.S, Japan, Canada, boost import-export, reduce import deficit, and attract foreign investment. In addition, TTP will also help Vietnam’s economy allocate its resources more effectively, enabling active supports to the processes of restructuring, innovation and improving regulations, and improve administrative reforms.

Vietnam’s participation in the TPP will not harm Vietnam – China trade. I note that Vietnam has great trade deficits with China. However, while China is the biggest trading partner of Vietnam in terms of two-way trade, the United States is still Vietnam’s largest market. By being part of the TPP, Vietnam can take advantage of this opportunity to access to other TPP members’ market, improve its competitive capacity, thus reducing its reliance on China. Vietnam – China trade relations will then be improved towards better balance, stability and for mutual benefits.

keemapoot, thanks for putting this up.

Okay, the cynics will simply say that the TPP thing will allow countries like Vietnam and others to export more cheap goods to the USA.

Washington wants to sell arms to Vietnam.

Oh, so America ends up being flooded with even more cheap goods, and this reduces further the maufacturing jobs in America. And who in America benefits ? Oh, American companies that produce and export arms, they benefit ?

The view that free trade simply destroys jobs in places like America and Europe is held by many people.

[Publicus]

Strange by this marker stated why won't USA sign a TPP agreement with the entire ASEAN but selected partners only like Singapore Vietnam ...

You can see P ...superpowers deal with circumstances like this .,,you pick your partners and have a say in it

China is similarly picking the same partners who want to work with them

Yup, I'm going to post some interesting facts about Vietnam alone given to me this morning on an intelligence update and TPP here to illustrate your point, and how Vietnam was chosen as the most strategic partner, and how TPP is designed to benefit it the most of any TPP country. Very smart diplomatic and strategic moves by the USA to help contain China in the SCS, while at the same time, not harm relations between Vietnam and China.

Vietnam would be the largest beneficiary of this trade pact. Statistics show that by participating in the TPP, Vietnam’s GDP would add an additional increase of 13.6% to the baseline scenario. According to the World Bank and other institutions, Vietnam’s GDP in 2020 will increase by USD 23.5 billion and USD33.5 billion in 2035. Export value will also increase by USD 68 billion in 2025. Vietnam’s real income by 2025 is also forecast to increase by 10.5%, leaving Malaysia’s as the second highest income rising country out of the TPP members far behind at 5.6%.

TTP will help Vietnam balance relationships with key markets, approach larger markets including the U.S, Japan, Canada, boost import-export, reduce import deficit, and attract foreign investment. In addition, TTP will also help Vietnam’s economy allocate its resources more effectively, enabling active supports to the processes of restructuring, innovation and improving regulations, and improve administrative reforms.

Vietnam’s participation in the TPP will not harm Vietnam – China trade. I note that Vietnam has great trade deficits with China. However, while China is the biggest trading partner of Vietnam in terms of two-way trade, the United States is still Vietnam’s largest market. By being part of the TPP, Vietnam can take advantage of this opportunity to access to other TPP members’ market, improve its competitive capacity, thus reducing its reliance on China. Vietnam – China trade relations will then be improved towards better balance, stability and for mutual benefits.

I wuz going to say Hanoi and all of Asean can see the handwriting on the wall but then on a moment's further thought, it is more than safe to say Hanoi knows what you've posted and then perhaps a wee bit more. The post is anyway a rare instance in which free investment intelligence is indeed priceless.

In this rich vein, before President Obama left for Vietnam to lift the embargo on lethal arms he jacked duties on CCP steel imports to the US by 522% -- that is, by five hundred twenty-two percent -- on CCP steel used in the US to manufacture autos.

Pres. Obama also imposed another CCP import duty (rocket) of 450% on a different kind of steel. Global markets of all kind are calling it Obama's "shock and awe" hit on the CCP's slowing and crumbling economy. CCP commodity markets this week nosedived to force CCP to step in to grab hold of another shattering market.

The whole of the region has thus been looking on as CCP scrambles with another big crisis at home and as Pres. Obama solidifies the VN market while then getting all the SCS ducks in a row at the G-7 meeting in Japan to include its "outreach" to key economies of the region (Vietnam Number One).

The CCP Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank and its grandiose New Silk Road project, which was in part designed to provide an outlet for the CCP massive domestic overproduction surpluses is stillborn and still waiting on the $1.2 Trillion seed money CCP had promised to put in it (which CCP never had to begin with).

I'd reiterate the increasingly repeated saying that keeps making the rounds, which is that the only thing we have to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Still, it might be that giving it a little tap might move things along expeditiously.

[keemapoot]

Strange by this marker stated why won't USA sign a TPP agreement with the entire ASEAN but selected partners only like Singapore Vietnam ...

You can see P ...superpowers deal with circumstances like this .,,you pick your partners and have a say in it

China is similarly picking the same partners who want to work with them

Yup, I'm going to post some interesting facts about Vietnam alone given to me this morning on an intelligence update and TPP here to illustrate your point, and how Vietnam was chosen as the most strategic partner, and how TPP is designed to benefit it the most of any TPP country. Very smart diplomatic and strategic moves by the USA to help contain China in the SCS, while at the same time, not harm relations between Vietnam and China.

Vietnam would be the largest beneficiary of this trade pact. Statistics show that by participating in the TPP, Vietnam’s GDP would add an additional increase of 13.6% to the baseline scenario. According to the World Bank and other institutions, Vietnam’s GDP in 2020 will increase by USD 23.5 billion and USD33.5 billion in 2035. Export value will also increase by USD 68 billion in 2025. Vietnam’s real income by 2025 is also forecast to increase by 10.5%, leaving Malaysia’s as the second highest income rising country out of the TPP members far behind at 5.6%.

TTP will help Vietnam balance relationships with key markets, approach larger markets including the U.S, Japan, Canada, boost import-export, reduce import deficit, and attract foreign investment. In addition, TTP will also help Vietnam’s economy allocate its resources more effectively, enabling active supports to the processes of restructuring, innovation and improving regulations, and improve administrative reforms.

Vietnam’s participation in the TPP will not harm Vietnam – China trade. I note that Vietnam has great trade deficits with China. However, while China is the biggest trading partner of Vietnam in terms of two-way trade, the United States is still Vietnam’s largest market. By being part of the TPP, Vietnam can take advantage of this opportunity to access to other TPP members’ market, improve its competitive capacity, thus reducing its reliance on China. Vietnam – China trade relations will then be improved towards better balance, stability and for mutual benefits.

I wuz going to say Hanoi and all of Asean can see the handwriting on the wall but then on a moment's further thought, it is more than safe to say Hanoi knows what you've posted and then perhaps a wee bit more. The post is anyway a rare instance in which free investment intelligence is indeed priceless.

In this rich vein, before President Obama left for Vietnam to lift the embargo on lethal arms he jacked duties on CCP steel imports to the US by 522% -- that is, by five hundred twenty-two percent -- on CCP steel used in the US to manufacture autos.

Pres. Obama also imposed another CCP import duty (rocket) of 450% on a different kind of steel. Global markets of all kind are calling it Obama's "shock and awe" hit on the CCP's slowing and crumbling economy. CCP commodity markets this week nosedived to force CCP to step in to grab hold of another shattering market.

The whole of the region has thus been looking on as CCP scrambles with another big crisis at home and as Pres. Obama solidifies the VN market while then getting all the SCS ducks in a row at the G-7 meeting in Japan to include its "outreach" to key economies of the region (Vietnam Number One).

The CCP Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank and its grandiose New Silk Road project, which was in part designed to provide an outlet for the CCP massive domestic overproduction surpluses is stillborn and still waiting on the $1.2 Trillion seed money CCP had promised to put in it (which CCP never had to begin with).

I'd reiterate the increasingly repeated saying that keeps making the rounds, which is that the only thing we have to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Still, it might be that giving it a little tap might move things along expeditiously.

I won't use the term "choke hold," but if you throw Myanmar into the equation it now looks like a carefully crafted arm grappling move designed to force China into submission in its overreach. Of course this is an over statement, and Myanmar was moving away from China anyway, and with the freedom and ascendance of Aung San Suu Kyi's pro-democracy leanings, they have lost that possible pathway of the silk road to the southern deep port too. Speaking of deep ports, even though China is still officially welcome as an investor on par with other foreigners, its plan to install a refinery has come up against citizen uprising and will be scrapped in a key port area in the south. This port, Dawei, was originally planned to be a Chinese portal, and now it is firmly invested by Japanese, Thai, and other foreign investors and much bigger than its original vision.

India, Burma, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines. Key choke hold pressure points, with combined weight of US and G-7. Pretty powerful, and as you say, pressure applied to China's critical steel industry just makes the pain more intense.

To continue this mixed martial arts analogy, China will have to "tap-out" on the SCS to some extent pretty soon, or risk a broken arm at least if not a windpipe blockage.

My point from the beginning in this thread. Show the military strength and resolve, but use other methods to get China to behave.

[55Jay]

Are you joking. Who says China got to the Spratly islands first? Those islands are quite near the Philippines. It's natural to assume Phil fishermen got there first. Just because Fils didn't plant a flag or build an airstrip, doesn't mean they were not there first. Or perhaps it was Europeans, hence the name Spratly. The same name which traditional Chinese maps used. Plus, Chinese maps dating back hundreds of years never included those islands as part of China. It's only in recent decades they've started to do that, along with placing Chinese names on them.

And that nine-dash map. Where did it really come from? Is it over a hundred years old? Verifiable? Regardless, it's the cheapest of cheap shots to show a primitive sketch of the area with dashed lines and use it as confirmation that the Philippine islands are Chinese. It would be silly, were it not for serious ramifications.

Boomer, let's say IF European sailors got to the Spratly Islands first.

Well, surely, it would be absurd if Europe was to now claim them Spratly Islands ??

Not surprising China making overtures to Indo. Indo stood up to them. That's the only way to deal with a bully on the school yard playground.

Seems the Argentinians don't put up with any Chinese nonsense either.

Thanks for that link about Argentina clashing with Chinese fishing boat. It's surprising there aren't a whole lot more incidents like that worldwide Asian fishing vessels in particular are prowling everywhere they can get to, to get sharks fins - a disgusting trade which is decimating shark numbers ww. Ships that harvest shark fins should be sunk, period.

Thais have no problem with wiping out sharks, and there are dozens of shops in Bkk which openly peddle sharks fin. Yet another proof of the chummy ties (Thais that bind) between China and Thailand. Partners in wiping out sharks. They're even targeting whale sharks, the biggest fish in the sea. Lumbering giants that scoop up krill.

Indeed, there are more incidents in the ether. Not to belabor the point, but stumbled across one I hadn't heard of, or had forgotten, from late 2014 - South Korea Coast Guard shot and killed one of several belligerent Chinese fisherman during a VBSS action in Korean waters.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-fisherman-shot-by-south-korean-coast-guard-1412917479

[55Jay]

Another bit piece in the coalescing push back against China?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-steel-idUSKCN0YH2KX

[boomerangutang]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

[55Jay]

The other observation is China is using its "secret ships" (fishing fleet) to test the resolve of other nations, to see just how far they can push before triggering a reaction. Precisely what Lawrence Chee has said so cavalierly a number of times. As if it is normal and perfectly acceptable behavior, alongside a purposely dismissive attitude toward the smaller, less military potent offended parties.

The Chinese see mealy mouthed diplomacy as a time wasting weakness to be exploited.

[LawrenceChee]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

[ilostmypassword]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

[keemapoot]

This is an interesting and instructive piece to read published yesterday from the now-rebranded CRI English News (sort of a VOC - Voice of China version of VOA ), formerly known as Peking Radio or Beijing Radio (of course a state-owned mouthpiece of the PRC government).

Anyway, these are interesting legal and historical arguments and reasoning China employ for the dispute with the Philippines, and Beijing is obviously putting these things out in its global propaganda effort in the imminent ruling from the Hague that will be coming in weeks.

The Philippines has never stopped playing tricks on the South China Sea issue. It is trying its best to cover up history and the facts, and to confuse the international community over the core issue, which is that the Philippines has not only seized some of China's territory, it wants more.

http://english.cri.cn/12394/2016/05/28/4201s929179.htm

Read it and laugh, or read it and say "exactly right!"

[Publicus]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

CCP Klutzes in Beijing have botched up Deng Xiaoping's doctrines very badly.

Had they adhered to Deng's teaching the Boyz would not be doing anything at all presently in SCS, or they would be working out sharing agreements. Instead the CCP Klutzes are stealing, constructing more theft, militarising; boxing themselves in by claiming that opposition to their aggressions and bellicosity violates their sovereignty.

Deng said to share the SCS and its resources. Deng said to be a good neighbor. Starting however with the hapless and weak Hu Jintao running the show, in 2009, CCP began to strike out against the neighborhood, first in the East Sea against Japan, then as presently in the SCS against everyone (except Fiji).

So whahappened.

By 2008 CCP was growing its economy by double digits annually. No matter it was bogus because Deng's pronouncement that "some must get rich first" was benefitting CCP beyond any of their wildest dreams or imaginings. CCP spent all of 2008 relishing in its Summer Olympic games that August, swelling the Chinese with an historically unmatched pride and their already festering nationalism.

China had arrived. Hubris reigned. Chinese racial supremacy was fulfilled and proved true. Hu himself however didn't want it, but the Party pushed up to force CCP in Beijing to begin to fulfill the dream-delusion to restore the Central Kingdom in the region and throughout the neighborhood in all directions. CCP began its undisciplined break from Deng to move into the East Sea and now the SCS.

The East Sea instance is instructive however. CCP finally quit in the East Sea after making things hairy there from 2009 through 2013. CCP withdrew there only after US made clear the Beijing claimed Senkaku islands were assigned to Japanese sovereignty by the post-WW2 treaty regimes. The treaty regimes included the US-Japan mutual defense alliance, in which an attack on the military forces of Japan is a casus belli to the United States (military forces only). CCP quit after that.

Now comes the Scarborough Shoals of the Philippines in the SCS. CCP has moved against the Paracels in the west of the Sea, the Spratlys in the south of it, and now wants to complete its Iron Triangle in the Sea by grabbing Scarborough in the northeast of it. However, the same post WW2 treaty regime assigned Scarborough to the Phils under the mutual defense treaty between US and the Phils. Also, the 1982 UNCLOS puts Scarborough inside the EEZ of the Phils.

The big question is whether CCP will show defiance by finally moving against Scarborough after the PCA in The Hague issues its ruling in a matter of weeks. Or whether CCP will take the same attitude towards Scarborough-US-Phils that it took in the East Sea concerning Senkaku-US-Japan, i.e., to cease and desist.

Nothing in this is automatic of course. The Phils are not Japan and the Phils are changing their government leader effective June 30th. Still, as the current silence continues, we nonetheless can be sure we'll know in due time whether the other shoe drops or doesn't drop.

SecDef Ashton Carter the unmitigated hawk came through here in April with a bayonet in his teeth (figuratively of course) and one does hope CCP Klutzes recognise and realise that President Obama has long since run out of all patience with 'em. Completely, entirely, absolutely.

President Obama presented himself in Vietnam as commander in chief, strategist, town meeting discussion leader. In Hiroshima Pres. Obama presented himself as the friendly and benevolent giant. The hope is that the Klutzes in Beijing will figure this one out without more or greater miscalculation which is all they have done since the world came to China for the Summer Games in 2008.

[Publicus]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

[LawrenceChee]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

Don't worry when Trump wins ...the world would see the biggest idiot on the world stage and it will downright beat everyone in terms of stupidity , nonsensical you will have a blast defending him in the TVF then with every gaffle he makes every other day ....have a hear on his latest ...he's saying the Paris climate treaty is nonsense and Hiroshima is not worth an apology mr president elect looking like a fool