US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[LawrenceChee]

Hahahhahahah .....Yeap I'm at the airports killing time between flights which explains the many posts today with Comrade P

Agree most overseas Chinese are vocal but they don't really care about politics ...it's still the same issues plaguing parents ...schools , bills and happy holidays and families

I got involved due to the influence of my granddad who told me to go out and make a difference

In the city where we grew up, he was respected as a moderate Chinese and indeed in the first openings to China in the 80s , he was consulted by many western partners on what was the best strategy to engage the business environment

When I saw how respected his viewed were regarded by the community business leaders and it was never pushy or about one agenda point or about China but mutual understanding , it spurred me to do the same today

[Publicus]

argos-uk.jpg

And also, America, it's not just about YOU and WalMart. In Britain, we have Argos, and Argos also has a whole load of Chinese made stuff. Yes, the sea lanes must be kept open. Chinese goods must be allowed to enter Britain, and Europe.

Keep the sea lanes open. Who is against keeping the sea lanes open ? Who is against the Chinese goods being in WalMart and Argos ? Who ?

I want to know, I demand answers now !!

Answer : Comrade P ?

Have a great day TVF ....looks like another hot blistering day with 42 degrees in the horizon ...I'm flying out tonight to South Korea for some cool comfort and business talks on more trade to keep those sea lanes open

Actually it's interesting in my last trip when I was in Dongguan ; I met a specialist group of factories that produces stuff for the American military bases.

I hope those Commanders won't ever agree to a blockade as their Christmas gifts wont arrive at the bases and it would be a sad Christmas for the boys

Let's hope CCP does not exploit and abuse innocent civilians in any disputes or conflicts, either to some extent or en masse.

It would be criminal, repugnant, repulsive.

Give an horrendous new Chinese meaning to 'women and children first'.

The American military has already beaten the Chinese and many nations to that

Like I say , fly down to the town of Danang and from there bus to any of the rehab Centres of Agent Orange all supported by private donations

You will see the horrendous meaning to devastation on civilians first hand ....these adults are in a sad state of vegetation for their entire lives and these are not in small numbers and unfortunately I am not exaggerating.

The humane thing is most families have forgiven the American military as they know they were just following orders and yet a simple apology has never been made for closure .

I have many American colleagues contributing to this which always helps balances out the views that private individuals are never the same as the government and media politics

Many at the centre are touched by the kindness of these Americans and in a small and meaningful way, they reconcile the past and reality for these families

Admitting to your past and apologising doesn't make you any smaller

Admitting to your past and apologising doesn't make you any smaller

Millions of us spent years in the streets getting our heads cracked by the pigs police demonstrating to stop the Vietnam war.

Now tell us about the Cultural Revolution and its purges. The guy below in the photo is listed at the linked website with, among others....

• Idi Amin
• The Assads
• Nicolae Ceausescu
• Francisco Franco
• Joseph Goebbels
• Hermann Göring
• Heinrich Himmler
• Adolf Hitler
• Radovan Karadzic
• Kim Il Sung
• Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
• King Léopold II
• Josef Mengele
• Slobodan Milosevic
• Ratko Mladic
• Benito Mussolini
• Pol Pot
• Joseph Stalin
• Tojo Hideki
• Jorge Rafael Videla

Mao Tse-Tung

AKA Chairman Mao, AKA 'The Great Helmsman'. (Tse-Tung can also be spelt Zedong. In translation the name means 'To Shine on the East'.)

Country: China.

Kill tally: As many as 45 million deaths from starvation during the 'Great Leap Forward'. Tens of thousands killed and millions of lives ruined during the 'Cultural Revolution'.

Background: The Chinese begin to emerge as a distinct civilisation around 2500 BCE. China develops as an imperial power in 221 BCE when rival states are unified under the First Emperor. The following 2,000 years will see a succession of dynasties, although strict cultural traditions will gradually suffocate innovation and development. The increased influence of Western powers during the 19th Century and expansionary incursions by the Russians and Japanese further weakens the imperial system, which is also faced with growing internal dissent.

http://www.moreorless.net.au/killers/mao.html

No surprise about Tiananmen Square in 1989 and no surprise about the South China Sea, to include the East Sea against Japan which daily is presented in CCP mass media and in the schools as evil itself.

There are of course sophisticated people in the CCP China and I've met 'em too in my lines of work over the recent past. I'd made the point previously in numerous posts. These precious few people are of no consequence however. They can't protest in the streets, they can't put a rebel in the mix, a dissident.

Dr. Liu Jiaobao the 2010 recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize is in prison for 11 years for peacefully advocating a gradual evolution to democracy, while no one in CCP China raises their voice over the CCP's belligerence and aggressions in the South China Sea or in the East Sea against the CCP despised Japan.

There's a joke around the Hague where the Phils is pressing their case against CCP over the SCS that any day now the CCP moon probe vehicle on the moon's surface, named Jade Rabbit by CCP will find a map that says the SCS is in fact a Chinese lake.

[boomerangutang]

And keemapoot, you're right !

Look, what's happening is this. The Washington government spends billions every year building military hardware. Those aircraft carriers that are built, there needs to be a justification for them. People like Publicus either don't know the reality, or more likely, they do. Publicus is here, trotting out stuff that paints an absurd picture that China is a threat to the USA.

China is NOT a threat. And IF Washington was to ever think that China was a threat, well, Washington would simply massively reduce the amount of goods America imports from China. So, Washington knows that China is not a threat, but it still spends billions of tax-payers money on it's military, and it has to justify the military. All this talk of making sure that the sea lanes are open is absurd and ridiculous. Publicus IS being ridiculous. Those sea-lanes are the very routes that China is using to export it's goods to America and the EU.

Oh, so America is using it's navy to gaurantee that Chinese manufactured goods can get to America and Europe ??? America is scared that China might interrupt or partially block those sea-lanes ? No, it's ridiculous. China wants those sea-lanes OPEN, that way, China can export it's goods to America and Europe.

All that's mentioned above is in relation to economics. It's off kilter. The S.China Sea tensions won't be resolved by blockades or trade wars or boats of migrants, etc. It won't be resolved by no-fly zones or embargoes. It won't even be fixed by rulings/findings by esteemed groups of lawyers/experts/diplomats. The SCS problem will only be resolved by military intervention. Sorry to say, but that's the only thing that will have a chance of sending the Chinese packing back to China.

I'm a peacenik to some degree. I would much rather see dialogue resolve the problem. But I know enough about how Chinese leaders think to know that anything less than spanking their butts decisively will not work. Misinforming the Chinese masses is part of their controllers' game plan. They know, as soon as there is any clash (even if it's small scale) millions of Chinese will get instantly activated to protest and embark on cyber-warfare. When 2 Chinese low-ranking diplomats were unintentionally killed in Belgrade by a US fighter jet (using out-dated maps of the city), many Chinese in China were immediately up in arms.

A major component of Chinese leaders maintaining an iron grip on the thinking of their underlings is control of info. That's why extreme limitations on the internet is key, as Publicus articulated above. When wanting to control a mass of people, controlling their access to info is a key component. Look at N.Korea. Not too many decades ago, China was nearly as tightly controlled as N.Korea is now. China is a bit more open now, but still has one foot firmly stuck in the Cultural Revolution mind-control. What's the difference between the forced adulation of Chairman Mao and the same for Kim? Little, if any difference.

Ask any Chinese person based in China whether Tibet should be allowed to gain back its status as an independent Kingdom, and they'll look at you like you're from another planet. They'll say something like, "Tibet has always been a province of China." ....and they'll be wrong, of course.

It's similar with the S.China Sea. All Chinese in China think the exact same way about it, because they've been so successfully brainwashed by their controllers. .....and again they're wrong. When the UN (and/or Maritime Law experts) comes up with its conclusion that the islands don't belong to China, you can bet your plastic panda key holder that Chinese politburo will do all they can to A. discredit the finding, and B. keep their sheeple from finding out.

[keemapoot]

And keemapoot, you're right !

Look, what's happening is this. The Washington government spends billions every year building military hardware. Those aircraft carriers that are built, there needs to be a justification for them. People like Publicus either don't know the reality, or more likely, they do. Publicus is here, trotting out stuff that paints an absurd picture that China is a threat to the USA.

China is NOT a threat. And IF Washington was to ever think that China was a threat, well, Washington would simply massively reduce the amount of goods America imports from China. So, Washington knows that China is not a threat, but it still spends billions of tax-payers money on it's military, and it has to justify the military. All this talk of making sure that the sea lanes are open is absurd and ridiculous. Publicus IS being ridiculous. Those sea-lanes are the very routes that China is using to export it's goods to America and the EU.

Oh, so America is using it's navy to gaurantee that Chinese manufactured goods can get to America and Europe ??? America is scared that China might interrupt or partially block those sea-lanes ? No, it's ridiculous. China wants those sea-lanes OPEN, that way, China can export it's goods to America and Europe.

All that's mentioned above is in relation to economics. It's off kilter. The S.China Sea tensions won't be resolved by blockades or trade wars or boats of migrants, etc. It won't be resolved by no-fly zones or embargoes. It won't even be fixed by rulings/findings by esteemed groups of lawyers/experts/diplomats. The SCS problem will only be resolved by military intervention. Sorry to say, but that's the only thing that will have a chance of sending the Chinese packing back to China.

I'm a peacenik to some degree. I would much rather see dialogue resolve the problem. But I know enough about how Chinese leaders think to know that anything less than spanking their butts decisively will not work. Misinforming the Chinese masses is part of their controllers' game plan. They know, as soon as there is any clash (even if it's small scale) millions of Chinese will get instantly activated to protest and embark on cyber-warfare. When 2 Chinese low-ranking diplomats were unintentionally killed in Belgrade by a US fighter jet (using out-dated maps of the city), many Chinese in China were immediately up in arms.

A major component of Chinese leaders maintaining an iron grip on the thinking of their underlings is control of info. That's why extreme limitations on the internet is key, as Publicus articulated above. When wanting to control a mass of people, controlling their access to info is a key component. Look at N.Korea. Not too many decades ago, China was nearly as tightly controlled as N.Korea is now. China is a bit more open now, but still has one foot firmly stuck in the Cultural Revolution mind-control. What's the difference between the forced adulation of Chairman Mao and the same for Kim? Little, if any difference.

Ask any Chinese person based in China whether Tibet should be allowed to gain back its status as an independent Kingdom, and they'll look at you like you're from another planet. They'll say something like, "Tibet has always been a province of China." ....and they'll be wrong, of course.

It's similar with the S.China Sea. All Chinese in China think the exact same way about it, because they've been so successfully brainwashed by their controllers. .....and again they're wrong. When the UN (and/or Maritime Law experts) comes up with its conclusion that the islands don't belong to China, you can bet your plastic panda key holder that Chinese politburo will do all they can to A. discredit the finding, and B. keep their sheeple from finding out.

Sure, many good points. We all know how the Chinese leadership has mostly successfully restricted information and anti-government expression of thought in matters of foreign policy. At the same time, they have encouraged open discourse when it comes to matters of foreign trade. Selective of course. It's what we would expect of a now market-driven commie place.

People spout the party line because it's in their best interests to do so. Expecting that China will or should soon or ever become democratic is pissing in the wind. Of course we should hold China's feet to the fire, and choose our partners in this effort carefully.

Military intervention? Nah. Can't see the utility in that generally, but certainly there are ways to flex muscle, assert claims, maintain spheres of influence and presence and other stuff to counteract China's expansionism. Backing up Vietnamese & Philippine partners in many ways, lots of other strategies, of course.

Given free reign, for sure China will run wild over the SCS.

[jerico2017]

I would like to see China slug out with her neighbors. Lets see that Thai aircraft carrier in action. I bet they would have to cut the anchor chain. Maybe some new Thai (Chinese built) sub that gets to see battle on the first patrol. Lots of posturing from the U.S. but gutless.

I don't care for this in between stuff.

Fend for yourself Philippines, Thailand, etc.,

I don't want anymore ASEAN to immigrate to my home country, nor do I want taxes from my country defending mud huts.

Reciprocal treatment plus interest is warranted.

Edited April 20, 2016 by jerico2017

[LawrenceChee]

Comrade P - there will not be another cultural revolution as much as another Tiananmen incident

I know it's irks the west that China has learnt fast and able to do what many govts wish they have the tenacity to do

in reforms and modernising ....along the way growing with the population spurts , many environmental and production errors were made and I hope will be correct on the next 20 years

It's not easy to govern modern day China and as such it's history is fragmented with crazy ideologies as as many nations with long histories would have

I don't think anyone would disagree the cultural revolution was wrong in many ways but it also mould the country into what it is today.

Moderation comes from partners that will stop deploying irrational acts

Trust me most of the Middle East wished USA have never stepped in as the mess is left there for them now.

[boomerangutang]

The #1 reason Chinese leaders don't allow free discussion nor easy access to internet data is: they're worried it will weaken their grip on power. And they're right.

That's also why Thailand is becoming more like China in those ways: restricting press coverage. Stifling dissent, re-education camps, censored web sites, etc.

It's ironic that Burma is heading the other way: toward more openness, free flow of ideas.

The most extreme of course, is N.Korea, with enforced worship of the troika of Kims.

[boomerangutang]

LawrenceChee opines: "Trust me most of the Middle East wished USA have never stepped in as the mess is left there for them now. "

The troubles in the Middle East vary from bad to despicable at any given time. Who's to say the M.East would be better today if the US had not stepped in - during past decades?

>>> Kuwait would be a province of Iraq, and Hussein and/or his boys in charge. Parts of the S.Arabia peninsula could also be part of Iraq.

>>> Iraq and Iran might have had another war, just for the heck of it. Iraq could continue to raze Kurdish villages at will.

>>> Palestinians and Israelis would probably be warring more than they do now.

>>> Iran would be making nukes, so naturally Iraq and Saudis would also want nukes. There would be a nuclear arms race in the M.East. Syria would also like nukes.

>>> Taliban would be more entrenched in Afghanistan and bleeding into (and disrupting) Pakistan, probably more than they are already. Taliban would be gloating about striking the heart of the American devils (NY trade center), while the US was too weak and afraid to respond.

[Publicus]

Reality continues to intrude on and to contradict CCP and its CCP fanboyz. Reality continues to also impose itself on those who choose to remain oblivious to it.

The first link as follows is from Global Risks Insights:

G7 foreign ministers meeting: Turning the heat on China

The G7 foreign ministers convened in Japan last week. Although the countries’ heads of states won’t meet in Japan until next month, this meeting gave a hint of the priorities of the group, and more widely the West and its key allies in the Asia-Pacific region.

Peace and security were at the forefront of the G7 foreign ministers meeting in Japan. The G7 foreign ministers took China to task on maritime security and territorial disputes in South China Sea and North Korea on nuclear weapons.

This year, the point of conflict is inevitably in the South China Sea, where Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Taiwan (which Beijing claims to be part of China) all lay claim to small, inhabited islands. China’s move to build artificial islands particularly angered other countries. This tug-of-war is turning into a dangerous game reflecting China’s growing political ubiquity and its neighbours’ unease with it.

http://globalriskinsights.com/2016/04/g7-foreign-ministers-meeting/

In this photo released by China’s Xinhua News Agency, people pose for a group photo together after landing at the airfield on the Spratly Islands, also known as Nansha Islands in Chinese, of the South China Sea. A pair of Chinese civilian jet airliners landed at the newly created island in a disputed section of the South China Sea in a test to see whether its airstrip was up to standard, state media reported. The China Daily newspaper said the two planes on Wednesday made the two-hour flight to Fiery Cross Reef from Haikou on the southern island province of Hainan. (Xing Guangli/Xinhua via AP)

Global media are reporting extensively on this but here is one treatment of it from the press of India....

China angered by Britain's comments on South China Sea

China expressed anger on Wednesday after a senior British official said a ruling expected within a few months in an international arbitration case the Philippines has brought against China's South China Sea claims must be binding.

In February, the United States and the European Union, of which Britain is a part, warned China it should respect the ruling from the Hague. The court has no powers of enforcement and its rulings have been ignored before.

The dispute over the South China Sea refuses to die down as China is angered by Britain's take on the matter.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-china-angered-by-britain-s-comments-on-south-china-sea-2204185

China vs world opinion

China's angry reaction to the recent statement of the Group of Seven (G7) advanced economies expressing concern over China’s “intimidating, coercive or provocative unilateral actions” in the South China Sea only shows its arrogance and its penchant to deflect criticism of its policies by saying that such criticism constitutes interference in its internal affairs.

How can the other claimants negotiate with China when it has already claimed, using ancient maps with dubious origins and its so-called nine-dash line, the whole of the Spratlys, even including the Scarborough Shoal which faces the shorelines of Zambales and the waters around which are traditional fishing grounds of Filipino fishermen and way, way far from mainland China?

The Philippines made the right move in elevating the case to the United-Nations-backed arbitration tribunal in The Hague as the only recourse by a small country to gain a just and peaceful settlement of the dispute.

Read more: http://opinion.inquirer.net/94370/china-vs-world-opinion#ixzz46Ms03Qjp

Anyone who wants to dismiss Singapore as a strategic factor in the region ignores or is unaware of its committment to democracy, peace, prosperity, stability.

Singapore's Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen, who spoke at a plenary session at the forum, highlighted the importance of anchoring the Asean Defence Ministers' Meeting (ADMM) in a set of key principles and common goals for it to remain relevant.

He said: "First, the ADMM shall respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of each Asean member state, even as we build the Asean community."

"We cannot tackle many of the security challenges that we face today by ourselves. We must be ready and willing to work with partners from around the world who also have a stake in the security and stability of our region. The Strait of Malacca and the South China Sea are clear examples," Dr Ng said.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/philippine-unrest-will-affect-region-najib

China claims more territory outside of China than exists in the country itself.

CCP have absurd and provocative territorial claims against Russia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, India, Philippines. Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia.

CCP had alread incorporated Tibet and Xinyang when the world was exhausted after WWII and CCP wages a slow bleed cultural genocide against its minorities to include the Tibetans and the Uighurs.

In Hong Kong, CCP are busy abducting to the mainland publishers it doesn't like and CCP are systematically attacking the Basic Law negotiated with UK.

The past several years CCP are intent on forcing its control over an entire sea, the SCS which is a Global Maritime Commons that belongs to all people, all countries globally, to all of Asean (it really should be renamed the South East Asia Sea). The CCP attitude and values are horrendously immature, ancient and delusional. CCP are a wannabe superpower, the Middle Kingdom one that is irreversibly determined to own the region of nations as its tributary states.

Who btw hasn't been to a Chinatown in his/her home city and in other cities at home and abroad several hundreds of times? Almost no one. Going to a Chinatown in Bangkok or New York is not an endorsement of the CCP however. The 'I like noodles' character of posts are as pedestrian and mundane as the food itself is. A number of us have or had lived a significant time in the CCP and we know the fierce 24/7 behaviors of its internet censors and its control freaks in their daily obsessions, across the board.

Capital has been fleeing CCP China for the West to the tune of a couple of trillion dollars. CCP are frustrated as all hell about it as are the people of the People's Republic. So many of the Chinese entrepreneurial class who make big bucks get out and take their families with them. This is a resource CCP has lost for generations and forever. No one --as in no one-- is standing in a line to become a permanent immigrant to the CCP or to make a new life in the CCP. Neither is there line either or appetite for any such thing. The flow and movement is out of the CCP China, not in to it.

China should act like a grown-up in sea dispute

China cannot demand unreasonably that the Group of Seven (G7) nations not interfere in the South China Sea territorial issue (“China warns G7 to stop ‘hyping up’ maritime disputes”; April 13).

It is an international issue the G7 must discuss to find better solutions for the global community, including China. It is up to Beijing: If it behaves like an adult, we would not have to face the status quo. If China had not carried out reclamation, or had agreed to take the issue to The Hague, we would not have the problems we have now.

China must realise it is not the centre of the world and should behave gentlemanly. (emphasis added)

http://www.todayonline.com/voices/china-should-act-grown-sea-dispute

Edited April 20, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

China will not back down one mm on the SCS imbroglio. Which countries are supporting its territory grab? None.

What spooks me, as much as building airstrips, is pouring tons of concrete to place weapons and bunkers, particularly (now) at the Paracels, which Vietnam contests. Crap is going to hit the fan. The sooner preemptive strikes happen (probably by US stealth weapons), the less comparative damage will be done. Will the next US prez have the will to commit? I hope so.

[LawrenceChee]

Won't have any pre-em strike .... No president will be that dumb

[LawrenceChee]

Oh wait I have to take that back ....trump could well qualify as he has to show Kim what dumbness looks like and beat him in everything hairdo and all

[Publicus]

argos-uk.jpg

And also, America, it's not just about YOU and WalMart. In Britain, we have Argos, and Argos also has a whole load of Chinese made stuff. Yes, the sea lanes must be kept open. Chinese goods must be allowed to enter Britain, and Europe.

Keep the sea lanes open. Who is against keeping the sea lanes open ? Who is against the Chinese goods being in WalMart and Argos ? Who ?

I want to know, I demand answers now !!

Answer : Comrade P ?

Have a great day TVF ....looks like another hot blistering day with 42 degrees in the horizon ...I'm flying out tonight to South Korea for some cool comfort and business talks on more trade to keep those sea lanes open

Actually it's interesting in my last trip when I was in Dongguan ; I met a specialist group of factories that produces stuff for the American military bases.

I hope those Commanders won't ever agree to a blockade as their Christmas gifts wont arrive at the bases and it would be a sad Christmas for the boys

The poster in your nestled quote said: I want to know, I demand answers now !!

Your post stated: Answer : Comrade P ?

Neither post is a serious or a respectable post in any regard. Not as a straightforward statement or as a quip of some intelligible nature or character.

The first one reflects an emotional instability, an intellectual imbalance, a personality disorder.

Your post seeks to extend all three deficiencies and defects.

Neither is to be encouraged with either a serious or respectable reply, except to point out the flippant and assinine [sic] character of the particular characters involved.

One instead continues to move forward with the discourse and the discussion while passing on making a reply that might encourage further and unfortunate regressions or literal ruminations involving excrement.

The poster you quote and promote is already on the Ignore Honor Roll. You are a long way from that however as this poster needs and welcomes your vital role to enable the presenting and exposing of the CCP.

Do carry on.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Did we just witness a poster breaking down ? Or taking the high road and talking down approach again ?

Sorry Comrade P ...have another hour to kill before the next flight

Try humility , respect and mutual consent ....makes ones more likeable and more cohesive in a team.

Did someone forget lesson course no 268 about teamwork and not talking rudely in a communist committee ?

[tonbridgebrit]

Publicus, I demand that the sea-lanes in the South China Sea stay OPEN. Why ? Why do I demand/want this ?
It's because giant retailers in Britain, and Argos is one of the giant retailers, have a whole load of Chinese made goods stocked in them. The sea-lanes must stay open so that the goods can carry on arriving into Britain.

Now then, Publicus, I think YOU also want to see the sea-lanes continue to be open. Publicus, why do YOU want to see the sea-lanes continue to be open ?

[Publicus]

Did we just witness a poster breaking down ? Or taking the high road and talking down approach again ?

Sorry Comrade P ...have another hour to kill before the next flight

Try humility , respect and mutual consent ....makes ones more likeable and more cohesive in a team.

Did someone forget lesson course no 268 about teamwork and not talking rudely in a communist committee ?

Try humility , respect and mutual consent .

My TVF inboxes are always open to high and superior suggestions from the CCP censors or its fanboyz thx.

Kindly consider advising the CCP Dictators in Beijing in the matters you presume to recommend to this poster. Starting with their absolute, summary, arbitrary attitudes, behaviors and impositions in the SCS which the whole of the world objects to.

Only some world leaders support the CCP in the SCS or in general.

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has been awarded this year's Confucius Peace Prize, an award that is considered a Chinese rival to the Nobel peace prize.

Mugabe's selection does seem in keeping with the Confucius Peace Prize's tradition of sometimes choosing leaders the Western world is at odds with. In the past, the organisers of the Confucius Peace Prize have explained that they set up their prize to "promote world peace from an Eastern perspective."

In 2011, when Russian leader Vladimir Putin was awarded the prize, the prize committee paid tribute to Putin's actions in Chechnya in 1999.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/zimbabwean-strongman-robert-mugabe-wins-chinas-version-of-the-nobel-peace-prize-20151022-gkgc5r.html#ixzz46O3M5kn6

Backed Into A Corner: Friendless Beijing Seeks Moscow's Support In South China Sea

The Hong Kong-based The South China Morning Post reported that China is lobbying Russia for support in opposing international court proceedings launched by the Philippines over the South China Sea.

On Monday, China and Russia said that the South China Sea dispute should not be internationalized and called for its settlement based on negotiation and consultation, according to a report in China’s state-run media outlet Xinhua.

Of course, the problem with that joint statement is that to date China is not willing, nor will it be willing, to negotiate in the South China Sea unless other nations first consent to Beijing’s claim of historical ownership of the body of water.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/

Good luck with this uncompromising and absolutist aggression. It bears reiterating that this poster has pointed out the unity on this issue among Asean and the West asserts there will be no Munich in the vital matter of the SCS.

[LawrenceChee]

Comrade P ...I will let the censor unit know of your request ...I hope the TVF inbox is prepared for spam mail.

Since you probably know how big that unit is and if each of them decide to send you a Happy Labor Day greeting on May 1 , I Guess that would be enough reading till Christmas

What's a Fanboyz ? Something I don't really understand as they don't teach that term in English boarding schools. My apologies as they do teach us better English that side of the Atlantic

[Publicus]

argos-uk.jpg

Publicus, I demand that the sea-lanes in the South China Sea stay OPEN. Why ? Why do I demand/want this ?

It's because giant retailers in Britain, and Argos is one of the giant retailers, have a whole load of Chinese made goods stocked in them. The sea-lanes must stay open so that the goods can carry on arriving into Britain.

Now then, Publicus, I think YOU also want to see the sea-lanes continue to be open. Publicus, why do YOU want to see the sea-lanes continue to be open ?

Again, preliminary discussions of a USN blockade in respect of the SCS aggression by CCP would be against CCP military assets in the SCS only, and only if a blockade of CCP military assets only in the SCS only might be considered as a last and imminent viable option.

A USN and allied SCS only blockade of CCP military assets only would therefore not involve the humongous disruption of a general blockade of all CCP seaports and their global commerce. I'd said this several times, yet you continue to issue your childish approach of issuing demands -- arbitrary and summary demands. You are now being put on my Ignore Honor Roll as your attempts at a deliberate provocation are recognised.

Military assets, confined to the SCS only. No general blockade, no blockade of general commerce or any category of commercial or civilian trade.

A SCS military assets blockade only, exclusively, and only if the current disputes and clashes there become extreme to the point a blockade would become considered. USN alone has the full capability to implement a blockade in the SCS of CCP military assets only and exclusively, and to sustain it.

Now go play in the traffic plse thx.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Comrade P ...I will let the censor unit know of your request ...I hope the TVF inbox is prepared for spam mail.

Since you probably know how big that unit is and if each of them decide to send you a Happy Labor Day greeting on May 1 , I Guess that would be enough reading till Christmas

What's a Fanboyz ? Something I don't really understand as they don't teach that term in English boarding schools. My apologies as they do teach us better English that side of the Atlantic

I hope the TVF inbox is prepared for spam mail.

Kindly discuss and elaborate if you don't mind plse thx.

CCP censors total 40,000 full time whackos who get paid to support their families and their careers, lives, to bend people's minds starting each working day when they get up every morning and go to "work". It's a sick job and career signed up to do by mind control psychopaths and sociopaths.

Since you probably know how big that unit is and if each of them decide to send you a Happy Labor Day greeting on May 1 , I Guess that would be enough reading till Christmas

Meaning?

We see the kind of warped CCP mind the world is facing in the SCS but in just about everything else that is CCP and their fanboyz. Imagine that, censoring and punishing career mind control fascists who have fanboyz. Only in the Old Word of the Middle Kingdom can such people exist, and to do it with distinctly Chinese characteristics.

[boomerangutang]

Won't have any pre-em strike .... No president will be that dumb

Sometimes a preemptive strike is what's needed. Israel did a preemptive strike against Iraq, years ago. It sent fighter jets to bomb an Iraqi nuclear reactor, claiming it was being used to make weapons-grade U. A different scenario: Kennedy threatened a strike against Cuba, which averted a possible nuclear exchange.

Personally, re; international relations, I favor discussions and following rule of law. China started by illegally claiming ownership of the islands. It has since upped the ante by militarizing them - setting up gun and missile batteries. Shall the world wait until China sets nukes on the islands? Lawrence Chee would say that China won't do that. Can he be sure? He might have said, a year ago, that China would not put state-of-the-art missile launchers on the Paracels, but now we know such weapons are there, set in concrete.

If China did set nukes on one or more of those islands, would it announce the fact? Of course not. Pardon me if I sound like an alarmist (you can call me a canary in a coalmine if you want). An alarmist was needed at Honolulu on the morning of December 7 1941. At the time, new technology called radar had just been set in place. A low ranking Navy worker was looking at the little round screen and notified his superior officer of indications of something approaching from the north. The captain glanced at the screen and waved his hand dismissively, "probably just a flock of birds. Don't pay it any mind."

[boomerangutang]

One thing the rest of the world might try doing, though difficult, is try facilitate info getting to the Chinese populace. On some specific issues, they're being fed garbage by their controllers in Beijing. The internet is the best way. Currently, Chinese politburo is quite successful at maintaining wool covering Chinese eyes, particularly on hot-button issues like:

>>> what really happened at Tianamen Square

>>> what was Tibet's international status before China took it over in the 1950's.

>>> what's the real history of the islands in the South China Sea. Note: Phil and other nearby countries' fishermen have been fishing around (and sometimes landing) there for centuries.

How to enable Chinese masses to become better apprised of such issues? Probably #1 is to enable them to get full / uncensored internet access. That way they can find out about other scenarios and make up their own minds. Currently, they're fed just one version of events, and it's the official version put forth by the old men cloistered in Beijing - .....rich old men who have very thick agendas and rule with iron fists.

[keemapoot]

One thing the rest of the world might try doing, though difficult, is try facilitate info getting to the Chinese populace. On some specific issues, they're being fed garbage by their controllers in Beijing. The internet is the best way. Currently, Chinese politburo is quite successful at maintaining wool covering Chinese eyes, particularly on hot-button issues like:

>>> what really happened at Tianamen Square

>>> what was Tibet's international status before China took it over in the 1950's.

>>> what's the real history of the islands in the South China Sea. Note: Phil and other nearby countries' fishermen have been fishing around (and sometimes landing) there for centuries.

How to enable Chinese masses to become better apprised of such issues? Probably #1 is to enable them to get full / uncensored internet access. That way they can find out about other scenarios and make up their own minds. Currently, they're fed just one version of events, and it's the official version put forth by the old men cloistered in Beijing - .....rich old men who have very thick agendas and rule with iron fists.

As Lawrence mentioned earlier in the thread, any Chinese who wants to can employ all sorts of VPNs and other bypass measures to access anything they want today. I think most people know they are getting party line info on these things, but the pragmatic nature of Chinese is to just get on with a better life. Singapore was an example of this in the way they developed, though not as controlled as China.

It's kind of the way we live in Thailand, for those of us who live here. We know the backstory in many taboo subjects. Many of us are fluent in Thai and have Thai extended families where we can engage in private, open, critical discussions. But, in public, it's smarter to just shut up if you know what's good for you.

It sounds like you're proposing a new version of Radio Free Europe which was deployed during the cold war, and after the fall of the Soviet empire became somewhat irrelevant. There won't be any fall of the Chinese empire, so a constant effort like that will only serve to antagonize Chinese leadership as interfering in internal affairs.

There are certainly cooperative methods with the affected countries in SCS that the US can do in partnership, which will weaken the will of the CCP to go too far. Whether extreme measures such as first strikes, blockades and other tactics should be employed are all part of the toolbox, but less extreme and less damaging-to-trade/investment/relations measures should be done first.

[boomerangutang]

One thing the rest of the world might try doing, though difficult, is try facilitate info getting to the Chinese populace. On some specific issues, they're being fed garbage by their controllers in Beijing. The internet is the best way. Currently, Chinese politburo is quite successful at maintaining wool covering Chinese eyes, particularly on hot-button issues like:

>>> what really happened at Tianamen Square

>>> what was Tibet's international status before China took it over in the 1950's.

>>> what's the real history of the islands in the South China Sea. Note: Phil and other nearby countries' fishermen have been fishing around (and sometimes landing) there for centuries.

How to enable Chinese masses to become better apprised of such issues? Probably #1 is to enable them to get full / uncensored internet access. That way they can find out about other scenarios and make up their own minds. Currently, they're fed just one version of events, and it's the official version put forth by the old men cloistered in Beijing - .....rich old men who have very thick agendas and rule with iron fists.

As Lawrence mentioned earlier in the thread, any Chinese who wants to can employ all sorts of VPNs and other bypass measures to access anything they want today. I think most people know they are getting party line info on these things, but the pragmatic nature of Chinese is to just get on with a better life. Singapore was an example of this in the way they developed, though not as controlled as China.

It's kind of the way we live in Thailand, for those of us who live here. We know the backstory in many taboo subjects. Many of us are fluent in Thai and have Thai extended families where we can engage in private, open, critical discussions. But, in public, it's smarter to just shut up if you know what's good for you.

It sounds like you're proposing a new version of Radio Free Europe which was deployed during the cold war, and after the fall of the Soviet empire became somewhat irrelevant. There won't be any fall of the Chinese empire, so a constant effort like that will only serve to antagonize Chinese leadership as interfering in internal affairs.

There are certainly cooperative methods with the affected countries in SCS that the US can do in partnership, which will weaken the will of the CCP to go too far. Whether extreme measures such as first strikes, blockades and other tactics should be employed are all part of the toolbox, but less extreme and less damaging-to-trade/investment/relations measures should be done first.

Suggestions of moderate approaches are appreciated. As for VPN's to bypass Chinese internet censorship, probably less than 1% of Chinese are doing that. That, in itself, is breaking the law and could get a Chinese person in trouble.

Keemapoot; "There are certainly cooperative methods with the affected countries in SCS that the US can do in partnership, which will weaken the will of the CCP to go too far."

Boomers: Already there are many indications from dozens of countries - agreeing that China HAS ALREADY GONE TOO FAR. Your lukewarm suggestion is predicated on accepting China's definition of what it deems 'going too far.' That's akin to allowing a paedophile to run a kindergarden. The parents hint at what the paedophile shouldn't do, but then ultimately leave it up to the paedophile to decide what is 'going too far.'

Note, every development on the islands, from China's claim or ownership, to building airstrips, to putting in advanced weapons, .....has stemmed from secrecy. The old men in Beijing make decisions in shadowy locked rooms. It's only later that other countries find out what they're doing, via satellite pics or other means. They're like naughty boys up in their locked room with vials of chemicals. You know they're planning nefarious things, but you can only find out belatedly. .....and there may be other bad things you find out about - too late.

[keemapoot]

One thing the rest of the world might try doing, though difficult, is try facilitate info getting to the Chinese populace. On some specific issues, they're being fed garbage by their controllers in Beijing. The internet is the best way. Currently, Chinese politburo is quite successful at maintaining wool covering Chinese eyes, particularly on hot-button issues like:

>>> what really happened at Tianamen Square

>>> what was Tibet's international status before China took it over in the 1950's.

>>> what's the real history of the islands in the South China Sea. Note: Phil and other nearby countries' fishermen have been fishing around (and sometimes landing) there for centuries.

How to enable Chinese masses to become better apprised of such issues? Probably #1 is to enable them to get full / uncensored internet access. That way they can find out about other scenarios and make up their own minds. Currently, they're fed just one version of events, and it's the official version put forth by the old men cloistered in Beijing - .....rich old men who have very thick agendas and rule with iron fists.

As Lawrence mentioned earlier in the thread, any Chinese who wants to can employ all sorts of VPNs and other bypass measures to access anything they want today. I think most people know they are getting party line info on these things, but the pragmatic nature of Chinese is to just get on with a better life. Singapore was an example of this in the way they developed, though not as controlled as China.

It's kind of the way we live in Thailand, for those of us who live here. We know the backstory in many taboo subjects. Many of us are fluent in Thai and have Thai extended families where we can engage in private, open, critical discussions. But, in public, it's smarter to just shut up if you know what's good for you.

It sounds like you're proposing a new version of Radio Free Europe which was deployed during the cold war, and after the fall of the Soviet empire became somewhat irrelevant. There won't be any fall of the Chinese empire, so a constant effort like that will only serve to antagonize Chinese leadership as interfering in internal affairs.

There are certainly cooperative methods with the affected countries in SCS that the US can do in partnership, which will weaken the will of the CCP to go too far. Whether extreme measures such as first strikes, blockades and other tactics should be employed are all part of the toolbox, but less extreme and less damaging-to-trade/investment/relations measures should be done first.

Suggestions of moderate approaches are appreciated. As for VPN's to bypass Chinese internet censorship, probably less than 1% of Chinese are doing that. That, in itself, is breaking the law and could get a Chinese person in trouble.

Keemapoot; "There are certainly cooperative methods with the affected countries in SCS that the US can do in partnership, which will weaken the will of the CCP to go too far."

Boomers: Already there are many indications from dozens of countries - agreeing that China HAS ALREADY GONE TOO FAR. Your lukewarm suggestion is predicated on accepting China's definition of what it deems 'going too far.' That's akin to allowing a paedophile to run a kindergarden. The parents hint at what the paedophile shouldn't do, but then ultimately leave it up to the paedophile to decide what is 'going too far.'

Note, every development on the islands, from China's claim or ownership, to building airstrips, to putting in advanced weapons, .....has stemmed from secrecy. The old men in Beijing make decisions in shadowy locked rooms. It's only later that other countries find out what they're doing, via satellite pics or other means. They're like naughty boys up in their locked room with vials of chemicals. You know they're planning nefarious things, but you can only find out belatedly. .....and there may be other bad things you find out about - too late.

Does anyone really have any doubts about what the Chinese leadership wants and will do if left to their own devices in the SCS?

There is no guessing. The whole region and world knows what their goal is. The US strategy should be to shore up a common consensus backed by things like the TPP, promote trade that punishes Chinese aggression in the SCS, and other things.

Don't mistake practical suggestions on strong allies-building with dove-like intentions. For sure China needs to be checked in the SCS. My view is that it should be done in the most effective way that builds partnerships, doesn't affect trade and investment, and doesn't create a new cold war between the US and China.

**For example, there are only 4 countries in the world that are in the 'sweet spot' of being both members of ASEAN and TPP: Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore. China's strategy to not be left out of TPP is that they are rapidly investing in Vietnam to establish presence as to not be left out. That kind of dependence on Vietnam to access the US market will lead to better control of their aggressions in the SCS than blockades.

Edited April 21, 2016 by keemapoot

[LawrenceChee]

Boomerangutang

- Based on my contacts in China and how many of them are actively updating their Facebook accounts on what they are eating daily etc which seems to be a millennium thing , the % in my contact list is about 55% of them have VPNs and these are not techie stuff , it's simple to download and that how most of them watch whatever that is banned or not available in the local cinemas

The amount of local discussion about Tiananmen is more than what CNN will tell you ; openly I will share in my family groups , it's an occasion where the opinion was hotly debated during dinners and Keemapoot who is well traveled in China knows this is common

The only difference is while some have been dogmatic like Comrade P who uses it negatively against China and holds that incident as the definitive guide to how China suppresses demonstrations , the more objective and pragmatic ones like us talks to Govt bodies and many in the highest ranking have avowed such a mistake will never happen again

And I stand by the facts that it has not happened again since Tiananmen , the recent HK demonstrations was a great global response and I will tell you the daily briefings was tense but the general mood was to hold any action and let the HK police deal with it as any Chinese presence will lead to an outcry

For them to have the discipline and hold it out for so many days till common sense prevailed and the Hk people were vocal enough to say it should stop , I give the CCP credit from learning fast

In a closed family group , nothing is off topic ...in Thailand I have learnt to stop talking politics here unless I know the person well as its just smart to respect this is the way local laws are made and set up

I know there are some bafoons like Trump who believe it's a God given right to say what you want and when you want it ...bug any well brought up Asian kid would have got a few smacks on the faces for being disrespectful to the elders and talking rubbish

It's the Asian way ...we like to to talk in private among friends instead of a TV show. If the west really believes in free speech and freedom of choice , let the Asian do what we want to do instead of telling us what's normal in your culture and expect us to accept that

We accept the USA military are interfering and likes to be in every campaign whether needed or not ...accept now China won't let the SCS go as they see it as a strategic intent to defend

[keemapoot]

The amount of local discussion about Tiananmen is more than what CNN will tell you ; openly I will share in my family groups , it's an occasion where the opinion was hotly debated during dinners and Keemapoot who is well traveled in China knows this is common

In a closed family group , nothing is off topic ...in Thailand I have learnt to stop talking politics here unless I know the person well as its just smart to respect this is the way local laws are made and set up

I know there are some bafoons like Trump who believe it's a God given right to say what you want and when you want it ...bug any well brought up Asian kid would have got a few smacks on the faces for being disrespectful to the elders and talking rubbish

It's the Asian way ...we like to to talk in private among friends instead of a TV show. If the west really believes in free speech and freedom of choice , let the Asian do what we want to do instead of telling us what's normal in your culture and expect us to accept that

Apologies to Lawrence for redacting his post, but I only wanted to address this idea that somehow the masses in China are not getting information or discussing it among themselves. What Lawrence has discussed is true, and I have also been in many, many similar dinner discussions in China, but with extremely close friends and partners I have known for years, so I was trusted to be included in these conversations.

In Thailand, I will give you a similar true experience that happened last week at Songkran. I hosted 12 of my wife's family members to dine at a big international hotel, and we even had a VIP room, which was private, though the partitions allowed some sight and sound. At the dinner, we had people who held some known divergent political views. There was not even the slightest hint of political discussion at that public restaurant. We then invited that same group home for after dinner drinks and socializing. It was only at home, in the privacy of my library, did we get into heated political discussions, and even deeply exploring that most verboten topic in Thailand and what the potential implications might mean. All of those in the conversation had access and had seen materials & photos published outside Thailand on this topic.

So, yes, this is the Asian way, and you cannot impose a western sensibility or free speech standard on these countries and cultures. The people are not as duped as you think, they just know their priorities and protocol for airing these issues.

[Publicus]

Several points here in respect of some points discussed on this fine morning....

1) SecDef Ashton Carter in 2006 wrote in the NYT with his mentor former SecDef Wm Perry advocating a preemptive strike on the North Korea nuclear facilities (only) using conventional warheads delivered by in a precision bombardment of primarily Trident missiles, which are the principal missile weapon of the Boomer subs that are always off the coastal waters of Northeast Asia. One Boomer could in fact do the trick.

Carter was not in office at the Pentagon at the time, which was during the Bush administration, but he has served in top Pentagon positions or he's been an official formal adviser to the Pentagon over decades, serving or formally advising 11 secretaries of defense. Carter knows more about the Pentagon and national defense and military tech and policy than any civilian in the USA, and no one should doubt it. CCP Boyz in Beijing certainly recognise it. Ashton Carter is a hard nosed hawk straight out and through and through.

Ash Carter was everyone's choice to succeed Bob Gates (to include Bob Gates) except for Barack Obama who went instead with a former senator and Vietnam war vet Chuck Hegel. The consciousness in Beijing of Carter as the most knowledgeable and seasoned SecDef since WW2, combined with the CCP detestation and fear of the CCP hater Hillary Clinton, gives CCP a great concern that (later) next year there will be major events in the SCS initiated by the United States. So Beijing's rush in the SCS is on for this year while they consider they have the time and latitude with Carter being restrained by Potus himself and only. Even then Pres. Obama has given up on dialogue with Xi Jinping and gives Carter a lot of room to operate. The long and the short of it is that more than a year ago the Washington hawks took charge of national security while those who have always favored negotiation have lost their arguments and their case.

2) The one approach the White House will not take is an economic one. There will be no economic sanctions initiated by the White House, nor would the WH support or acquiesce to any such sanctions by the Congress. This includes no trade embargoes or special tariffs etc. Congress for instance has hollered for 15 years to for DepTreasury to declare CCP a manipulator of its currency, which CCP certainly and blatantly is and always has been, but Treasury and the White House have always muddled and fudged their annual report to the Congress, required by law, to say there really isn't any problem.

Giving CCP a fee pass on its shameless and chronic currency manipulation, which the entire world is aware of and accepts, is understandable because it has allowed CCP to control its currency to please itself, to buy US treasuries, prosper on exports to the US; it has also tickled the CCP to be able to go to other countries, such as Asean and those in Africa, to impress 'em by saying they have more than a Trillion in US dollars so aren't we the CCP rich and powerful with all that American money. Never mind our miserable yuan/rmb, we have humongous US bucks.

The only time a US Potus has spoken to CCP about economic sanctions was when President Obama early last year told Xi Jinping to stop the cyber theft or Obama would step aside so that Congress could go ahead with the economic sanctions it's been chomping at the bit to impose for many years. Since Nixon went to the CCP in 1972, every Potus has facilitated greased relations with CCP while every Congress has been pressured to bite its tongue and has held off on its stern and punishing attitude toward CCP.

A major reason Potus Obama appointed the 30-year veteran of Congress Sen Max Baucus ambassador was to take the CCP to school about the Congress, which CCP is completely ignorant about. CCP has learned very well how to work with the White House and cabinet secretaries and their departments, but it has had no meaningful or significant contact with the Congress. None at all beyond visits by Senators or Members of the House. CCP hasn't any clue of what a member of Congress is or does, much less how or why. All CCP knows of Congress is that it's democracy so therefore it's bad.

CCP understands Potus is chosen by a national selection process and they respect the fact Potus is the country's leader, but that's it, screw the process as far as they're concerned. CCP's attitude is that voters are the people and what do the people anywhere know. This contempt of the average person is how the Chinese have always looked at it at home and abroad, for 2500 years continuously. Any CCP today will tell you the intelligence of the average person everywhere is low, so they must be led and commanded; controlled and directed -- absolutely so.)

3). Getting back to the final point, CCP is pushing its Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank which is designed to build a new silk road to connect Europe to China. It has the overland route and the sea route, same as the original silk road. There are three belts of road across Asia, north, central, south. The sea route connects to Iran and Pakistan...Which leaves India not very accepting of the CCP's invitation to welcome the southern Asia route through the north of India, which is territory CCP claims to be a part of China. (China really is the autistic country!)

However, with the wobbling economy at home, the bucks for the bank that exclusively come from CCP to the tune of $40 billion initially, ain't there any more. CCP is selling off forex to put some money in their AIIB accounts just to say there's money there. AIIB is Beijing's answer to TPP but it's not going well. The German Consul General in Hong Kong Graf Lambsdorff said exactly that in remarks along this line in Hong Kong early this month, published in the South China Morning Post which is in Hong Kong....

"The belt is a two-way street that gives partnering countries access to investment opportunities. Any roads and any belts should be and will be a two-way street -- in both directions. Any initiative will only work if interested businesses, companies and people invest in it. Presently the proposed silk road is a Chinese concept. Of course, for such an idea, such a grand scheme, political rhetoric is part of it. It will take a long time before you can measure success."

In other words, CCP might do better to connect to the TPP than to wait for a new silk road which is/would be, as CCP likes to call it, "One belt, one road." It's going to be a long time yet before CCP can find its way to lay the first brick or to make the first notch in the belt. Especially given the belt tightening going on throughout the CCP as its economy continues to tank. One major impetus in the CCP for the new silk road project was to absorb the massive overproduction of the CCP economy but now that production is falling in a straight line downward overproduction and overcapacity capacity is not a problem any more.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Boomerangutang

- Based on my contacts in China and how many of them are actively updating their Facebook accounts on what they are eating daily etc which seems to be a millennium thing , the % in my contact list is about 55% of them have VPNs and these are not techie stuff , it's simple to download and that how most of them watch whatever that is banned or not available in the local cinemas

The amount of local discussion about Tiananmen is more than what CNN will tell you ; openly I will share in my family groups , it's an occasion where the opinion was hotly debated during dinners and Keemapoot who is well traveled in China knows this is common

The only difference is while some have been dogmatic like Comrade P who uses it negatively against China and holds that incident as the definitive guide to how China suppresses demonstrations , the more objective and pragmatic ones like us talks to Govt bodies and many in the highest ranking have avowed such a mistake will never happen again

And I stand by the facts that it has not happened again since Tiananmen , the recent HK demonstrations was a great global response and I will tell you the daily briefings was tense but the general mood was to hold any action and let the HK police deal with it as any Chinese presence will lead to an outcry

For them to have the discipline and hold it out for so many days till common sense prevailed and the Hk people were vocal enough to say it should stop , I give the CCP credit from learning fast

In a closed family group , nothing is off topic ...in Thailand I have learnt to stop talking politics here unless I know the person well as its just smart to respect this is the way local laws are made and set up

I know there are some bafoons like Trump who believe it's a God given right to say what you want and when you want it ...bug any well brought up Asian kid would have got a few smacks on the faces for being disrespectful to the elders and talking rubbish

It's the Asian way ...we like to to talk in private among friends instead of a TV show. If the west really believes in free speech and freedom of choice , let the Asian do what we want to do instead of telling us what's normal in your culture and expect us to accept that

We accept the USA military are interfering and likes to be in every campaign whether needed or not ...accept now China won't let the SCS go as they see it as a strategic intent to defend

Free speech is what you enjoy here, not what the CCP Chinese people have in the People's Republic. They dare not demonstrate although some demonstrations do sometimes occur, most commonly against the completely destroyed environment. However, the huge mass of Chinese do not demonstrate or protest in any way. CCP reformers have lost to Xi Jinping in economics, finance, politics, governance.

The precious few sophisticated people in the CCP have no impact nor are they of any consequence in determining the direction of China presently or at any time going forward. They are neutered politically, culturally, socially, although they do enjoy some measure of economic and financial success, so they are anyway firmly invested in the system, the CCP and its decrepit and crumbling system that last year began to experience convulsions of crashes.

Most people in the CCP China i continue to know and to have contact with continue to reject Xi Jinping and his detestable party. However, they know the paramilitary People's Armed Police are 850,000 strong in 48 divisions of troops located in garrisons of each and every province. There will be no significant or consequential opposition to the CCP now or ever.

The freedom of speech you have is not your freedom in China. The First Amendment to the US Constitution is for the USA but it should be for China too. But it cannot be for any number of reasons, one being the people of China do not want it. That is your choice just as ignorance and fear is the people's legacy from history in China.

Almost everyone in the CCP China supports the Party in the SCS and virtually everyone in CCP China detests and despises Japan. China is determined to see Japan off to the end of its history, one way or the other. Either way is just fine by 90% of all Chinese. Same for the USA in the longer term.

The CCP attitude and philosophy is dog eat dog in the CCP and in China, and concerning CCP versus the world so everyone everywhere has a dog in this fight...its dog. The attack dog that the CCP is is loose so it must needs be put down.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

We (Chinese) accept the USA military are interfering and likes to be in every campaign whether needed or not ...accept now China won't let the SCS go as they see it as a strategic intent to defend

The above is LC's closing sentence. China can accept, albeit grudgingly, US and other countries debating and even sword-rattling about the SCS. Of course, if China had its choice, all countries would be warm and fuzzy with China's territory-grab. There is one thing Chinese leaders won't accept: actually picking up and leaving the disputed territories.

Here's a comparison: Let's say you have property with a house and a chicken coop placed in a far corner of the yard. A wolf comes along and camps out next to the coop, and you don't like it. You can shout at the wolf, sing to it, wave yellow flags in its face, offer it raw meat, spray it with a water hose, ......all those things annoy the wolf, but won't send it packing for good. Only dynamic action will banish the wolf, and that's an armed attack followed by a sustained/concerted campaign to keep the wolf away. All else is window dressing and ineffectual.

P.S. the longer the wolf is there, the deeper it digs its burrow, and the more pups it sires.

Edited April 21, 2016 by boomerangutang

[chuckd]

Won't have any pre-em strike .... No president will be that dumb

Sometimes a preemptive strike is what's needed. Israel did a preemptive strike against Iraq, years ago. It sent fighter jets to bomb an Iraqi nuclear reactor, claiming it was being used to make weapons-grade U. A different scenario: Kennedy threatened a strike against Cuba, which averted a possible nuclear exchange.

Personally, re; international relations, I favor discussions and following rule of law. China started by illegally claiming ownership of the islands. It has since upped the ante by militarizing them - setting up gun and missile batteries. Shall the world wait until China sets nukes on the islands? Lawrence Chee would say that China won't do that. Can he be sure? He might have said, a year ago, that China would not put state-of-the-art missile launchers on the Paracels, but now we know such weapons are there, set in concrete.

If China did set nukes on one or more of those islands, would it announce the fact? Of course not. Pardon me if I sound like an alarmist (you can call me a canary in a coalmine if you want). An alarmist was needed at Honolulu on the morning of December 7 1941. At the time, new technology called radar had just been set in place. A low ranking Navy worker was looking at the little round screen and notified his superior officer of indications of something approaching from the north. The captain glanced at the screen and waved his hand dismissively, "probably just a flock of birds. Don't pay it any mind."

A couple of notable errors in your post.

1. You claim..." Kennedy threatened a strike against Cuba, which averted a possible nuclear exchange."

Kennedy claimed a retaliatory nuclear strike would be made against the USSR if the Russian nukes were not removed from Cuba.

From the link provided:

"“The president outlined a plan of action that called for a naval blockade to enforce a “strict quarantine on all offensive military

equipment under shipment to Cuba.” He also issued a warning to the Soviets that the United States would retaliate against them

if there was a nuclear attack from Cuba, and placed the U.S. military in the Western Hemisphere on a heightened state of alert."

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kennedy-announces-blockade-of-cuba-during-the-missile-crisis

2. You also claim..."The captain glanced at the screen and waved his hand dismissively, "probably just a flock of birds. Don't pay it any mind."

The radar reading was actually ignored because Pearl Harbor was expecting the arrival of 18 aircraft from the USS Enterprise.

They arrived during the attack losing five aircraft to both enemy and friendly fire. The flock of birds never existed in anybody's

mind that I can find.

"At 0618 hours on 7 Dec 41, Enterprise launched SBDs of VB-6 and VS-6 to search a sector 045 to 134 degrees for a distance

of 150 miles (240 km) and to then proceed to NAS Pearl Harbor on Ford Island. A total of 18 aircraft arrived over Pearl Harbor

during the Japanese attack. One was shot down by U.S. antiaircraft fire, four by the Japanese and one crash-landed. The

remainder landed at either NAS Ewa or NAS Pearl Harbor."

More here: http://bluejacket.com/ww2_12-07-41_carriers.html

Edited April 21, 2016 by chuckd