SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[Grouse]

Another thoughtful piece here on Brexit from the left of politics here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Very odd, he recognises that the EU is undemocratic, uncountable and does not necessarily follow the wishes of the people it dictates to

But, he rejects brexit on the grounds that he disagrees with the policies of Boris and Michael Gove.

Surely the point is that any democratic government can be voted out whereas the unelected European commission can't be.

I think we all agree that there is a significant democratic deficit and that weighs heavily against the EU. However, many of think this can be rectified by strong pressure from the big hitters like UK and Germany.

However, we want representative democracy. We certainly don't want a referendum on every issue. We elect wise people to represent us, I do not expect them to represent the wishes of individual voters on every decision.

[Grouse]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for Brexit. Stay in.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463458098.543540.jpg

And this does not include the Democratic benefits, from leaving the corrupt EU

And restoring the supremacy of our Parliament.

A word of advice if I may

All sensible people understand that this is a complex issue

When you present a completely one sided argument, you at least appear foolish

[Grouse]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for REMAIN. Get out.

May I recommend a decent optician? You could also listen to Radio 4. You may not agree but there are many compelling arguments against Brexit

[Grouse]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for Brexit. Stay in.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463458098.543540.jpg

And this does not include the Democratic benefits, from leaving the corrupt EU

And restoring the supremacy of our Parliament.

A word of advice if I may

All sensible people understand that this is a complex issue

When you present a completely one sided argument, you at least appear foolish

But your stuff is one sided, are you foolish...?

I have said frequently that it is a complex issue and ON BALANCE I tend toward remain. I have linked to multiple debates on the matter. I have also stated that our useless Border Service pushes me toward Brexit. I see no balance in any of Nontabury's contributions and that IMHO undermines his position ? Edited May 17, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

[Grouse]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

But you can tell us we are daft to exit...?

I would say unwise

[Johnyo]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

[Johnyo]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for Brexit. Stay in.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463458098.543540.jpg

And this does not include the Democratic benefits, from leaving the corrupt EU

And restoring the supremacy of our Parliament.

A word of advice if I may

All sensible people understand that this is a complex issue

When you present a completely one sided argument, you at least appear foolish

But your stuff is one sided, are you foolish...?

I have said frequently that it is a complex issue and ON BALANCE I tend toward remain. I have linked to multiple debates on the matter. I have also stated that our useless Border Service pushes me toward Brexit. I see no balance in any of Nontabury's contributions and that IMHO undermines his position

Nontanbury discredits my opinion based on my nationality

[Grouse]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point ?

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great ?

[Grouse]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for Brexit. Stay in.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463458098.543540.jpg

And this does not include the Democratic benefits, from leaving the corrupt EU

And restoring the supremacy of our Parliament.

A word of advice if I may

All sensible people understand that this is a complex issue

When you present a completely one sided argument, you at least appear foolish

But your stuff is one sided, are you foolish...?

I have said frequently that it is a complex issue and ON BALANCE I tend toward remain. I have linked to multiple debates on the matter. I have also stated that our useless Border Service pushes me toward Brexit. I see no balance in any of Nontabury's contributions and that IMHO undermines his position

Nontanbury discredits my opinion based on my nationality

Impolite at least!

All contributions welcome!

[SussexExpat]

Another thoughtful piece here on Brexit from the left of politics here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Very odd, he recognises that the EU is undemocratic, uncountable and does not necessarily follow the wishes of the people it dictates to

But, he rejects brexit on the grounds that he disagrees with the policies of Boris and Michael Gove.

Surely the point is that any democratic government can be voted out whereas the unelected European commission can't be.

I think we all agree that there is a significant democratic deficit and that weighs heavily against the EU. However, many of think this can be rectified by strong pressure from the big hitters like UK and Germany.

However, we want representative democracy. We certainly don't want a referendum on every issue. We elect wise people to represent us, I do not expect them to represent the wishes of individual voters on every decision.

WHAT!!!! We elect wise people to represent us.? And you expect us to take your opinions seriously after a comment like that. That one comment alone has blasted any credibility you might have had out of the water.

[Johnyo]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point ?

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great ?

Don't get me wrong Grouse, I have no problem with any nationality coming to live in Spain, just think that there should be a screening process, not different than any country really. Before the EU was created the only Brits coming to retire/live where the wealthy ones and they had prove that they could manage, now it seems the only criteria is watching A Place in the Sun. I have asked the question before but with no reply. How would the Brits like it if they had 800,000 foreigners retiring in Britain with no local language skill and expecting everybody to understand them and then getting offended when they are not understood! There are plenty of Brits that come over and are part of society, the majority are not, they live in compounds and live on a miserable pension and spend the little they have in British establishments whilst at the same time using our roads and beaches without paying any taxes. There has to be a screening process just as the Brits will be demanding if they Brexit. Its funny though when I suggest screening for Brits in Spain the nationalistic Brexiters come out in outrage when its exactly what they are demanding of their borders. Figure that one out!!

[nontabury]

The leaked memos between Soames and Cameron, give a pretty good picture of things. FTSE companies being encouraged to scaremonger in their quarterly reports. The stay camp obviously has "hired" Dave to be well on board. It will be good for those in big business and govt contracts, that is about all.

Meanwhile they hope 90 + % of the population sit at home, pay taxes and watch Big Brother (oh and vote for the UK to stay in the EU, to keep filling their pockets).

Sounds interesting. Do you have a reference where we can read the whole article?

[chiang mai]

I respect both sides of the argument but I can't see any compelling argument for Brexit. Stay in.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463458098.543540.jpg

And this does not include the Democratic benefits, from leaving the corrupt EU

And restoring the supremacy of our Parliament.

That list, to be perfectly honest, is more inclined to make me want to vote remain simply because it hasn't been thought through properly and is , well, far too simple - people are far smarter than that list implies.

[nontabury]

Another thoughtful piece here on Brexit from the left of politics here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Very odd, he recognises that the EU is undemocratic, uncountable and does not necessarily follow the wishes of the people it dictates to

But, he rejects brexit on the grounds that he disagrees with the policies of Boris and Michael Gove.

Surely the point is that any democratic government can be voted out whereas the unelected European commission can't be.

I think we all agree that there is a significant democratic deficit and that weighs heavily against the EU. However, many of think this can be rectified by strong pressure from the big hitters like UK and Germany.

However, we want representative democracy. We certainly don't want a referendum on every issue. We elect wise people to represent us, I do not expect them to represent the wishes of individual voters on every decision.

Sorry to repeat! But you keep mentioning that it would be better to remain in this corrupt so called union, and try to change from within. Unfortunately this has not been the case so far,and I certainly cannot see things getting any better. For the simply reason that it's not in the national interest of a number of countries,(mainly those in the east and south)to give up their veto on many of the issues that are causing concern. Add to these,those countries that Will be admitted in the near future.i.e Turkey etc.

[Linzz]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

Edited May 17, 2016 by Linzz

[SgtRock]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

It should be noted that the most prominent vocalist in calling uninformed fools is so educated that his use of the English language includes:

Shon instead of Shone.

One instead of Won.

Where instead of Were.

Easy mistakes to make.

[Grouse]

Another thoughtful piece here on Brexit from the left of politics here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Very odd, he recognises that the EU is undemocratic, uncountable and does not necessarily follow the wishes of the people it dictates to

But, he rejects brexit on the grounds that he disagrees with the policies of Boris and Michael Gove.

Surely the point is that any democratic government can be voted out whereas the unelected European commission can't be.

I think we all agree that there is a significant democratic deficit and that weighs heavily against the EU. However, many of think this can be rectified by strong pressure from the big hitters like UK and Germany.

However, we want representative democracy. We certainly don't want a referendum on every issue. We elect wise people to represent us, I do not expect them to represent the wishes of individual voters on every decision.

WHAT!!!! We elect wise people to represent us.? And you expect us to take your opinions seriously after a comment like that. That one comment alone has blasted any credibility you might have had out of the water.

So what do you understand by representative democracy?

[Grouse]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point ?

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great ?

Don't get me wrong Grouse, I have no problem with any nationality coming to live in Spain, just think that there should be a screening process, not different than any country really. Before the EU was created the only Brits coming to retire/live where the wealthy ones and they had prove that they could manage, now it seems the only criteria is watching A Place in the Sun. I have asked the question before but with no reply. How would the Brits like it if they had 800,000 foreigners retiring in Britain with no local language skill and expecting everybody to understand them and then getting offended when they are not understood! There are plenty of Brits that come over and are part of society, the majority are not, they live in compounds and live on a miserable pension and spend the little they have in British establishments whilst at the same time using our roads and beaches without paying any taxes. There has to be a screening process just as the Brits will be demanding if they Brexit. Its funny though when I suggest screening for Brits in Spain the nationalistic Brexiters come out in outrage when its exactly what they are demanding of their borders. Figure that one out!!

I fully understand

I should have said that my sister speaks both Spanish and Catalan. I can't speak a word?

[Caps]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point [emoji846]

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great [emoji846]

Don't get me wrong Grouse, I have no problem with any nationality coming to live in Spain, just think that there should be a screening process, not different than any country really. Before the EU was created the only Brits coming to retire/live where the wealthy ones and they had prove that they could manage, now it seems the only criteria is watching A Place in the Sun. I have asked the question before but with no reply. How would the Brits like it if they had 800,000 foreigners retiring in Britain with no local language skill and expecting everybody to understand them and then getting offended when they are not understood! There are plenty of Brits that come over and are part of society, the majority are not, they live in compounds and live on a miserable pension and spend the little they have in British establishments whilst at the same time using our roads and beaches without paying any taxes. There has to be a screening process just as the Brits will be demanding if they Brexit. Its funny though when I suggest screening for Brits in Spain the nationalistic Brexiters come out in outrage when its exactly what they are demanding of their borders. Figure that one out!!

I thought we did have 800,000 foreigners (and more) in the UK. Only they are not retired and spending their own money, the majority are a drain on the DHSS and NHS and No I don't like it

[Johnyo]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point [emoji846]

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great [emoji846]

Don't get me wrong Grouse, I have no problem with any nationality coming to live in Spain, just think that there should be a screening process, not different than any country really. Before the EU was created the only Brits coming to retire/live where the wealthy ones and they had prove that they could manage, now it seems the only criteria is watching A Place in the Sun. I have asked the question before but with no reply. How would the Brits like it if they had 800,000 foreigners retiring in Britain with no local language skill and expecting everybody to understand them and then getting offended when they are not understood! There are plenty of Brits that come over and are part of society, the majority are not, they live in compounds and live on a miserable pension and spend the little they have in British establishments whilst at the same time using our roads and beaches without paying any taxes. There has to be a screening process just as the Brits will be demanding if they Brexit. Its funny though when I suggest screening for Brits in Spain the nationalistic Brexiters come out in outrage when its exactly what they are demanding of their borders. Figure that one out!!

I thought we did have 800,000 foreigners (and more) in the UK. Only they are not retired and spending their own money, the majority are a drain on the DHSS and NHS and No I don't like it

We agree then!

[Grouse]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

Haha! Fair comment!

You have any connection with Linz in Austria BTW?

[Grouse]

Is't it now obvious enough,if you read through this entire thread that the case for exiting this corrupt organisation has surely been proven. The only argument put forward by the remain crowd, is the Scary propaganda of the establishment.

Let's look at other reasons to escape this nightmare. Firstly "democracy"

Let's give back to Our Parliament the right to make laws in the interest of the British people, and if we don't like any particular law or government, then we can toss them out.

We must not forget that Jean Junker has already accused our MEP's of "listening to their voters too much". He of course would prefer that we pandered to the interest of the Brussels elite,mainly their desire for more federal centralization. This of course could include controlling many aspects of the British way of life,including pensions.

The remain side will not even discuss the TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. This so called agreement will enable the giant American corporations to sue any EU countries that tries to protect the rights of it's people.

It's all quite simple- we want our country back.

You, sir, have clearly failed to read all the expert advice

You are still drawing silly conclusions from populist press.

OK, your choice. But please do not tell us the case for Brexit is proven. It is not. Far from it.

That would be your opinion.

As this a TV thread the 78% who have indicated favouring an exit suggests that the case for BREXIT is indeed proven.

Oh dear, back to statistics again

The sample is so small as to be meaningless

To use a TV poll to prove a point is, er, unwise?

23% of the 78% are non UK nationals. I for one I'm one of them and my reasons is so that we can have more of a say of who can come and retire in my country and as the UK has 800,000 retirees in Spain hence my vote

Fully understand your point [emoji846]

Actually my sister and her husband retired to Aragon. Built a house in some village in the middle of nowhere. No other Brits and hardly any Spanish. Wine cheaper than water. Great [emoji846]

Don't get me wrong Grouse, I have no problem with any nationality coming to live in Spain, just think that there should be a screening process, not different than any country really. Before the EU was created the only Brits coming to retire/live where the wealthy ones and they had prove that they could manage, now it seems the only criteria is watching A Place in the Sun. I have asked the question before but with no reply. How would the Brits like it if they had 800,000 foreigners retiring in Britain with no local language skill and expecting everybody to understand them and then getting offended when they are not understood! There are plenty of Brits that come over and are part of society, the majority are not, they live in compounds and live on a miserable pension and spend the little they have in British establishments whilst at the same time using our roads and beaches without paying any taxes. There has to be a screening process just as the Brits will be demanding if they Brexit. Its funny though when I suggest screening for Brits in Spain the nationalistic Brexiters come out in outrage when its exactly what they are demanding of their borders. Figure that one out!!

I thought we did have 800,000 foreigners (and more) in the UK. Only they are not retired and spending their own money, the majority are a drain on the DHSS and NHS and No I don't like it

That's not correct. Migrants to UK tend not to be a bet drain on the public purse. Of course more NHS resources are required for the increased population but extra tax income will cover that.

I don't want to see loads more people coming to the UK but let's get out facts right!

[Caps]

[quote name="Grouse" post="10757481"

I don't want to see loads more people coming to the UK but let's get out facts right!

Well you will do unless you vote out. More countries wanting to join, Turkey blackmailing the EU, oh the joys.....Not

[Grouse]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

It should be noted that the most prominent vocalist in calling uninformed fools is so educated that his use of the English language includes:

Shon instead of Shone.

One instead of Won.

Where instead of Were.

Easy mistakes to make.

Thanks SgtRock! These iPhone keypads are so small for my huge hands. I make loads of typos!

At least we've found something you know about! Do you know about punktuation too? You can be my spell checker!

Did you finish the Statistics for Dummies book I recommended?

[Grouse]

[quote name="Grouse" post="10757481"

I don't want to see loads more people coming to the UK but let's get out facts right!

Well you will do unless you vote out. More countries wanting to join, Turkey blackmailing the EU, oh the joys.....Not

The deal with Turkey and the refugees is one of desperate pragmatism. It has actually significantly slowed the arrival rate. I hope they never get to join the EU and I don't expect them to do so. Only takes one veto.

[nontabury]

[quote name="Grouse" post="10757481"

I don't want to see loads more people coming to the UK but let's get out facts right!

Well you will do unless you vote out. More countries wanting to join, Turkey blackmailing the EU, oh the joys.....Not

The deal with Turkey and the refugees is one of desperate pragmatism. It has actually significantly slowed the arrival rate. I hope they never get to join the EU and I don't expect them to do so. Only takes one veto.

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/posts/953378458093729

[uptheos]

We are a sovereign nation, why pay 365 million a day to be dragged down to equality with 3rd world countries and ruled from Brussels?

[Linzz]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

Haha! Fair comment!

You have any connection with Linz in Austria BTW?

Hitler's old home town? No not at all and zz does not represent National Socialist either!

[Grouse]

This might be worth taking a peep at:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0380g6d

THIS IS THOROUGHLY RECOMMENDED

at least for anyone who is genuinely interested

The debate in Berlin has the full spectrum of German politicians and an audience putting the questions. Dimbleby in the chair

Excellent, rational discussion - in perfect English naturally

Actually, as a Brit, I was shamed by the way German humanity and decency shon through. Quite unlike our own typical discourse

An earlier episode from Brussels is also good. They have a far right Swede on this one. But just listen to his logic and polite discourse and compare with the UKIP ape shouting out from the audience

Next episode this weekend from Birmingham

I'm really delighted Mr. Grouse that you have come to appreciate that polite and decent discourse no longer includes calling other members uninformed fools..

Well done! ​

Haha! Fair comment!

You have any connection with Linz in Austria BTW?

Hitler's old home town? No not at all and zz does not represent National Socialist either!

I wasn't insinuating anything. My local bakery sells an excellent Linzer which is unbeatable with a coffee! ?