Advice - Is it time to give up?

[bmack]

Hello all, appreciate your time and will try to be as brief as possible.

I'm a Canadian. First trip here back in Oct. 2012. Quickly fell in "love" with (poor) village girl, living in a small village in Phetchabun with her family. She asked me to marry her after a few days of being together, I said yes, we married end Nov. 2012. She asked for 1 million sin sod (getting 800k back after marriage, the 1 million was more for show), back then I had the money, I said yes. After the village wedding, we got 800k back, deposited it in her bank. We - she - was pregnant by end Dec. 2012. End of Jan. 2013 I decided to go back to Canada, find a job, start a home to sponsor her over.

Everything seemed to be going ok until I learned, around beginning of Apr. 2013, all money was gone and now she was asking for 400k more to finish rebuilding family house and put down payment on new car. Never once in the time I was gone (Feb.-Mar. 2013) did she tell me about house or car. I was of course furious but still gave her the money and decided to come back to village and make a life there to eventually all come to Canada together.

I got back in June 2013, in time for the birth of my son. And in case you have doubts, he really is my son I stayed for about a year, tried teaching for a couple of months (that just didn't work for me). Ended up spending most of my time at home in village exercising, cleaning, working on the house, helped caring for baby. My time would have been much better spent learning thai and completing or at least starting on the sponsorship paperwork. I was lazy with the thai and still didn't trust my wife but still had hope time would change things. Money was getting low, I was lonely, felt powerless in village (the only foreigner) so decided once again to come back to Canada, start a home, sponsor the wife and baby.

Got back to Vancouver June 2014, found a decent job and apartment, things seemed to be going ok. But eventually the long distance relationship turned upside down and all we ended up doing was fighting, it got pretty bad. So once again, I decided to come back, fix the marriage, live here a while and eventually we'd come to Canada together. I also missed and worried about my kid terribly, wanted to be with him.

Got back to village August 2015. First couple of months were great, started really bonding with wife. Getting to know my son was a bit more difficult as I missed an important time in his very young life. He's white as snow, blond hair, looks exactly like me but is pure thai. I'm still pretty much his last resort as he prefers to be with his mom, grandma, relatives or villagers before me. I think he loves me, we spend good times together but definitely feel last on his list. Not sure why but the last 4-5 months have been the worst yet. We've tried a few different things to get us going as a family but it just isn't working and I still haven't started on sponsorship.

Some points to mention and i'll stop this confusing post -

-the wife has had many chances to work, has received some interesting job offers... she's refused them all. I've never seen her work.

-I feel completely powerless over any decisions made, especially over the my kid. Seriously feel the villagers have more power and custodial rights over my kid... i know it sounds stupid but that's how it feels.

-we're looking at getting divorced (probably our best decision ever) but i'm having a hell of a time leaving my kid. All I really want is to get him to Canada. This village is no place for him, extremely worried about his health and safety. He's loved here but is being raised all wrong. I've tried to change things, tried to show some power over the family.. that really didn't go in my favor, just made everything worse.

-the wife will not let me take my kid to Canada without her, I can fight for custody but will lose and how can I take a child away from his mom? also, don't have enough $ anymore for lawyers and legal fees.

ok, ok that's enough. Apologize for rambling on, just felt the need to get this off my chest. I know what I need to do: cut my loses, divorce, get out of here, support my kid from Canada.

hmm, also, I think Thailand's a great place, I respect the people and their culture. I got married too fast, had no idea what I was getting myself into. I'm the only one to blame for this mess.

wish you all the best.

[thaiduncankk]

Where did you meet her ?

[bmack]

Where did you meet her ?

Online. I was in Phuket, short vacation before heading to BKK for TESL certificate. I quit the class near the end and they still gave me a certificate. So funny.

[bmack]

Where did you meet her ?

Online. I was in Phuket, short vacation before heading to BKK for TESL certificate. I quit the class near the end and they still gave me a certificate. So funny.

during the class, first weekend off, bus'd up to phetchabun to meet her and brought her back to BKK. Couldn't really concentrate on school after that after quitting class, we headed to village, married a month later. I knew it was too fast but it was all so new and exciting, I went with it.

[grumpyoldman]

I think you've answered your own question mate.

Yes, get the divorce, be as big a part of the boy's life as you can, move on.

You granted the village girl her golden rice bowl, so you'll be supporting the whole family for years to come, the boy as the proxy.

Best of luck.

[laolover88]

Sad story!

Take some consolation, for what it is worth, from the fact that you are far from the first person to whom this has happened!!

You will, sadly, have to be quite ruthless to achieve a good paternal relationship with your son. To a great extent this will, also, depend on how much time you have.

Some quick questions. Presume your name is on the Birth Certificate as father? Does he have a Canadian Birth Registration? Does he have a Canadian Passport?

Are you properly married ie. at an Amphur, not some Wat marriage? Get divorced. Do not let the wife achieve sole custody of the child. There is no certainty you would lose custody. You need a clear paper trail of the money you have spent. Thai courts are not actually totally partial to a Thai parent. If the mother has no visible means of support other than you a court will take this into consideration. There is no reason you cannot seek a court's consent to the child going with you to Canada.Of course you have to consider whether you are in a position to look after him.

Oh! How old is the child now?

[bmack]

Sad story!

Take some consolation, for what it is worth, from the fact that you are far from the first person to whom this has happened!!

You will, sadly, have to be quite ruthless to achieve a good paternal relationship with your son. To a great extent this will, also, depend on how much time you have.

Some quick questions. Presume your name is on the Birth Certificate as father? Does he have a Canadian Birth Registration? Does he have a Canadian Passport?

Are you properly married ie. at an Amphur, not some Wat marriage? Get divorced. Do not let the wife achieve sole custody of the child. There is no certainty you would lose custody. You need a clear paper trail of the money you have spent. Thai courts are not actually totally partial to a Thai parent. If the mother has no visible means of support other than you a court will take this into consideration. There is no reason you cannot seek a court's consent to the child going with you to Canada.Of course you have to consider whether you are in a position to look after him.

Oh! How old is the child now?

Thank you so much in taking the time to write. Yes my name is on the birth certificate. My son has his Canadian citizenship papers as well as Canadian passport. We are properly married (marriage certificate). I have a clear paper trail of all money spent and sent to her account. Without me, for lack of a better word, she's screwed. She basically had absolutely nothing before me. Everything she has is from me. I don't think she's a bad person, she just doesn't understand much and is extremely stubborn. And to be fair, I've failed as a husband. I accepted to marry her, to take care of her. I just can't get over her spending 1 million+ right after the first time I left and without even consulting me. Wouldn't I need a falang lawyer? I just can't afford one right now, I really messed myself up financially... I'd really like to say she has messed us up but I'm the one who just keeps on giving.

I am in a position to look after him, give him a better life. That's likely the only thing I'm sure of. The little monkey's 2.5 now.

[jvs]

Stay married,play the game and move them to Canada.Take it from there!Maybe you decide to stay married over there,if not, the courts may be more inclined to let you keep the child in case she wants to move back to Thailand.

Not an easy problem to solve but getting her away from family influence will definetly be in your favor.

Stop giving money!!!!!!!

[laolover88]

Yes I think jvs is possibly right. I said you need to be ruthless. If you can get them to Canada or even out of Thailand you will have the upper hand. It sounds as though she might be biddable if the financial offer looked good. On a really heartless note I would not worry too much about the child not being with his mother. Thai parenting skills are pretty lamentable; hence what you have already noted the involvement of the wider family and community. And then you will have to think about schools. Make sure he speaks English and if appropriate French depending where you are from!!

[bmack]

Yes I think jvs is possibly right. I said you need to be ruthless. If you can get them to Canada or even out of Thailand you will have the upper hand. It sounds as though she might be biddable if the financial offer looked good. On a really heartless note I would not worry too much about the child not being with his mother. Thai parenting skills are pretty lamentable; hence what you have already noted the involvement of the wider family and community. And then you will have to think about schools. Make sure he speaks English and if appropriate French depending where you are from!!

Oh how I wish she was biddable. Tried that, no go. She wants it all, she wants out of the village, Thailand. She confuses the heck out of me. She wants out but spent most of our money on rebuilding village house, car payments. I know, I know, she put her family first not contemplating or caring about the outcome. What kills me the most is, if we divorce, I leave, only support my boy, she'll have to go to bkk or another city for work and neighbors and relatives will care for the child. So yes, I've been thinking about what jvs said for a while now.

[bmack]

Stay married,play the game and move them to Canada.Take it from there!Maybe you decide to stay married over there,if not, the courts may be more inclined to let you keep the child in case she wants to move back to Thailand.

Not an easy problem to solve but getting her away from family influence will definetly be in your favor.

Stop giving money!!!!!!!

we had a few months away from family, village... rented a place in nakhon sawan to be just us 3. Definitely in my favor but some family issue brought us right back. I just can't get rid of them lol. You're right and I need to stop hesitating and get them to Canada. Just always a feeling in my gut saying "don't do it"... or maybe that feeling is from all the palm oil or sticky rice

[mgjackson69]

This is cold-hearted answer from me: forget about the mother, she gets what little she deserves. She used your money to show off to the village, and now you turned off the money tap and she has 10 baht in her pocket....som naam naa

For the son: if you can honestly provide good care and upbringing for him in UK, by all means do what you can to bring him there. Kids are resilient, and he will cry for "mom" until she is not around. I am not talking out of school here....my parents divorced when I was < one year old, in 1963 when that was not at all common..so I know from where I speak.

[manarak]

Yes I think jvs is possibly right. I said you need to be ruthless. If you can get them to Canada or even out of Thailand you will have the upper hand. It sounds as though she might be biddable if the financial offer looked good. On a really heartless note I would not worry too much about the child not being with his mother. Thai parenting skills are pretty lamentable; hence what you have already noted the involvement of the wider family and community. And then you will have to think about schools. Make sure he speaks English and if appropriate French depending where you are from!!

Oh how I wish she was biddable. Tried that, no go. She wants it all, she wants out of the village, Thailand. She confuses the heck out of me. She wants out but spent most of our money on rebuilding village house, car payments. I know, I know, she put her family first not contemplating or caring about the outcome. What kills me the most is, if we divorce, I leave, only support my boy, she'll have to go to bkk or another city for work and neighbors and relatives will care for the child. So yes, I've been thinking about what jvs said for a while now.

classic situation really, you didn't marry a poor girl, you married a whole family of poor people. all aren't bad, but all are uneducated and needy for money.

for the poor girls, their family comes first and you will always be the outsider ATM.

and don't think it will ever stop. as soon as their bank loan are repaid, their cars repaired and the sick uncle cured, they will find new ways to get themselves deep into the sh*t. when that sort of people have money, they first spend it all on lottery, fun and vacations, and since they feel like they are lucky they will borrow money from the bank again to extend their house or start a dumb business idea, but not without having bought bigger cars on credit before.

do yourself a favor and cut this crap short. there is no hope, run.

Edited April 20, 2016 by manarak

[NickJ]

Manarack is right. This is. a lose lose situation. Sad, but even if you managed to get her to Canada. What do you think would happen there. She will still be the same idiot. Will still be out to get what she can to send home. There however she can be in a real posistion to call the shots. Divorce, alimony. could get a boyfriend and that not marry him so you still have to pay her way.

Send 5000 or so to her every month and dont buy into all the false emergencies that will befall you........Good luck and go on with your life.

[bmack]

Yes I think jvs is possibly right. I said you need to be ruthless. If you can get them to Canada or even out of Thailand you will have the upper hand. It sounds as though she might be biddable if the financial offer looked good. On a really heartless note I would not worry too much about the child not being with his mother. Thai parenting skills are pretty lamentable; hence what you have already noted the involvement of the wider family and community. And then you will have to think about schools. Make sure he speaks English and if appropriate French depending where you are from!!

Oh how I wish she was biddable. Tried that, no go. She wants it all, she wants out of the village, Thailand. She confuses the heck out of me. She wants out but spent most of our money on rebuilding village house, car payments. I know, I know, she put her family first not contemplating or caring about the outcome. What kills me the most is, if we divorce, I leave, only support my boy, she'll have to go to bkk or another city for work and neighbors and relatives will care for the child. So yes, I've been thinking about what jvs said for a while now.

classic situation really, you didn't marry a poor girl, you married a whole family of poor people. all aren't bad, but all are uneducated and needy for money.

for the poor girls, their family comes first and you will always be the outsider ATM.

and don't think it will ever stop. as soon as their bank loan are repaid, their cars repaired and the sick uncle cured, they will find new ways to get themselves deep into the sh*t. when that sort of people have money, they first spend it all on lottery, fun and vacations, and since they feel like they are lucky they will borrow money from the bank again to extend their house or start a dumb business idea, but not without having bought bigger cars on credit before.

do yourself a favor and cut this crap short. there is no hope, run.

haha, merci Manarak. Will likely run, very soon. Just still a little torn between putting everything I have left in custody battle, trying 1 more time and getting them to Canada or like you say, doing myself a favor. Might just opt for the easy way out this time, just so hard to accept that my son will suffer. I do know they're playing him against me but he's still my boy.

Edited April 20, 2016 by bmack

[bmack]

Manarack is right. This is. a lose lose situation. Sad, but even if you managed to get her to Canada. What do you think would happen there. She will still be the same idiot. Will still be out to get what she can to send home. There however she can be in a real posistion to call the shots. Divorce, alimony. could get a boyfriend and that not marry him so you still have to pay her way.

Send 5000 or so to her every month and dont buy into all the false emergencies that will befall you........Good luck and go on with your life.

Yep, thanks Nick, that's what worries me and will likely happen. I've been shooting down most of their false emergencies for a few years now, crazy but there is always something. Thanks for taking the time.

[mgjackson69]

We joke about it on there forums, but stereotypes exist for a reason.

Nephew crashed motorbike...buffalo sick...grandmother died (three times so far this year)...Mom need <pick something>

It will never stop

[BritManToo]

If she wasn't lazy, she wouldn't have married you in the first place.

Discussion with her is pointless, but if you want the kid, you can never her give her any more money.

She hangs onto the kid in the hope you will keep sending her money for him, which she will spend on herself.

Walk away, but give her a contact address so she can hand the kid over, when she gets tired paying out for him.

That's your only hope as far as I can see.

Forget divorce, divorce means a custody order, which won't be you.

No money! No divorce!

No support for boy!

(That's money in her pocket)

Edited April 20, 2016 by BritManToo

[bmack]

If she wasn't lazy, she wouldn't have married you in the first place.

Discussion with her is pointless, but if you want the kid, you can never her give her any more money.

She hangs onto the kid in the hope you will keep sending her money for him, which she will spend on herself.

Walk away, but give her a contact address so she can hand the kid over, when she gets tired paying out for him.

That's your only hope as far as I can see.

Forget divorce, divorce means a custody order, which won't be you.

No money! No divorce!

No support for boy!

(That's money in her pocket)

That's always been my favorite option but also the one that worries me the most, for his health/safety. I "think" I know her and the family, at least a bit and have always seen them put him before themselves. But I definitely see your point and IS probably the best gamble to get my boy.

[laolover88]

I don't agree about the custody thing. My brother went to The Family Court. Wife unable to provide any evidence she could support the children. Thai Court gave him Custody. Cost a few Baht. You want your boy...You have to play some games, too. I am not advocating this, and I am not a lawyer, but Thailand is not a signatory to The Hague Convention on Children. I never had any problem taking my 2 and 3 year old children out of Thailand on return tickets on Thai and UK passports, without any documentation from their mother.. Your other alternative is to "move in". If you could afford to be there. Everyone might get very bored with your lack of generosity quite quickly. I think everyone is right: No More Money. (Even with Thai friends I doubt she could negotiate her way through Canadian Courts) Don't forget., either, under Thai Law, Assets acquired after Marriage are owned 50/50. That means cars and houses, but not of course Land.

I hope it turns out well!

[bmack]

I don't agree about the custody thing. My brother went to The Family Court. Wife unable to provide any evidence she could support the children. Thai Court gave him Custody. Cost a few Baht. You want your boy...You have to play some games, too. I am not advocating this, and I am not a lawyer, but Thailand is not a signatory to The Hague Convention on Children. I never had any problem taking my 2 and 3 year old children out of Thailand on return tickets on Thai and UK passports, without any documentation from their mother.. Your other alternative is to "move in". If you could afford to be there. Everyone might get very bored with your lack of generosity quite quickly. I think everyone is right: No More Money. (Even with Thai friends I doubt she could negotiate her way through Canadian Courts) Don't forget., either, under Thai Law, Assets acquired after Marriage are owned 50/50. That means cars and houses, but not of course Land.

I hope it turns out well!

Thanks LL, your input and advice has been helpful.

[boooker]

I would agree with most recommendations here,you have to be tactical ,in wordings and action......I been married for 18 Years with my Thai Wife we have 3 daughter oldest 17 youngest 4,and it turns out that even today certain parts are simple not easy to handle....but it is as well a culture part too which we all have to deal with,give and take.

Your Money is gone ,sad but true...forget it leave it behind and not let it stay in between anymore it will only ends in frustration and fighting.

You must play tactical and first you may try to find a job here in Thailand somewhere in the South where you can live with your Son and Wife.....and in the mean time prepare the papers for Canada.

Sometime it is better not to tell all your wife .....you have to filter what you can and what you cant.

Money wise ,keep it safe for you and just release for your family daily living.

My Wife spend 10000 THB a month and that it not much,first ask yourself where you wanna stay and for the sake of your Son maybe Thailand is better and work it out from here until you can go to Canada.

[mesterm]

And they say we're stereotyping.

[Katipo]

You left 800k in the bank account of a poor Isaan girl you had only known a few months? Respect for coming out and owning your mistakes though.

To be honest, I don't think your wife would manage in Canada. After a couple of months she would want to return home. She is a farm girl, with what appears to be no inclination to work or better herself, who would quickly get bored in Canada. Nothing would make her happier than staying at home with her family and her 'Lukrung' baby. You cannot change this.

In my opinion your best option is to go back to Canada and get your life back on track financially. Your child is obviously important to you, and you want to be in his life. The best way I can see this happening is to send out a monthly stipend which YOU decide YOU can afford. Whatever it is, it will be enough to ensure the family keeps giving you access when you visit them.

Unfortunately I can't see a way for you to be with your child 24/7 unless either a) you work as a teacher up there, or you can set yourself up in Bangkok with some other type of work and can convince your wife to join you there.

Many a man has been ruined both emotionally and financially by similar situations. Your greatest strength is that you have shown yourself to have awareness of your current predicament, Don't lose sight of this, no matter what happens.

[BKResort]

Will you like to rise your son in Canada?

If your answer is yes. Tell her that that is your ONLY interest, and you wants to take her and your son to Canada, and if she keep the child here you will not send any more money. You may have a surprise, and she may let you to take your son to Canada, free or not.

In Canada, with her, if any problem, you can get divorce and probably the court will give you your son. In last case, you can "buy" from her your son and your divorce. End of history...start of yours.

Edited April 21, 2016 by BKResort

[dotpoom]

I'm sorry to read about your situation. the first thoughts that struck me was "you have got to stop blaming yourself'....you may be responsible for your son....but NOT to blame for him. We all have situations that we wished we had handled differently (or so it seems when looking back) but in time I have discovered that those very same events have turned out to be my greatest assets in life. In fact, I will go one step further, I would not change them now, even if I could.

On a final note, due to me Alcoholism (now sober 15 years) my children don't have much time for me either. When I first realized this I felt life was not worth living....then a GOOD friend took me aside one day and told me straight to my face to stop feeling sorry for myself and making myself out to be one of life's victims. He said..."if you really love your children you will want them to be happy....even if that happiness is added to by them not being in contact with you". It took a very long time for that message to sink in and to this day we do not meet with each other.....but....I will always be available for them should they ever reach out. That is all I can do for today, tomorrow is a different day and I hope I will be in the same frame of mind....I know I will though.

God Bless you and hope it all works out.....that has been my greatest source of strength....my HP (Higher Power).

PS.,.,.,If you do the right thing...you will get the right result. Any other outcome is impossible. I have no advice for you, I can only share with you my own experience.

[peterb17]

Gosh how many times do we hear this? YOU decided to bring a new life into the world- the only thing as a father is to give your child the best opportunities in the world- that's it- nothing more. What else you do does not matter. Money is irrelevant.

It's going to be very tricky.

Good luck

[Baerboxer]

Yes I think jvs is possibly right. I said you need to be ruthless. If you can get them to Canada or even out of Thailand you will have the upper hand. It sounds as though she might be biddable if the financial offer looked good. On a really heartless note I would not worry too much about the child not being with his mother. Thai parenting skills are pretty lamentable; hence what you have already noted the involvement of the wider family and community. And then you will have to think about schools. Make sure he speaks English and if appropriate French depending where you are from!!

Oh how I wish she was biddable. Tried that, no go. She wants it all, she wants out of the village, Thailand. She confuses the heck out of me. She wants out but spent most of our money on rebuilding village house, car payments. I know, I know, she put her family first not contemplating or caring about the outcome. What kills me the most is, if we divorce, I leave, only support my boy, she'll have to go to bkk or another city for work and neighbors and relatives will care for the child. So yes, I've been thinking about what jvs said for a while now.

She doesn't sound like someone who was well educated or prepared to work hard. More a girl looking for a foreigner who would take care of her. Not a bad person but with very different values and expectations than Westerners.

I presume she joined the on-line site to find a husband whereas you probably joined to find female company. She landed you. She knows life will be better for her and for your son in Canada. She also sees the boy as security - she's provided you with a son, now she expects you to pay for the upkeep. They try to get pregnant quickly as otherwise you may get fed up and bugger off. She also knows her family will want to "share" in the benefits a nice foreign husband brings. Hence the demands for money to do the house up, the new car - relatives and neighbors expect to see the "family's new wealth" demonstrated - or they and she will loose face.

It could be worse. At least she wasn't a bar girl or sex worker engaging in multiple relationships behind your back.

Either take your wife and son back to Canada, where you've a chance to be a Western family, but will still get demands for money, or if you don't love the woman divorce her and support your son. As he gets older you may convince them a Canadian education would be much better. But remember they will always see him as their source of your providing.

Good luck and best wishes. Hope it works out well.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Baerboxer

[paddyjoe41]

Sad but not the first by a long chalk.I would tell her you have to go home to earn a living,and if she wants you would take the child until you can afford to send her her fare,you can say your family will help to look after him until you find a home for the three of you.I fshe agrees then go now,if she dont agree still go and tell her you will be in touch asap.Do not send her a penny,or a baht,the child will never see it,this may sound cruel but what is happening to you is also cruel.and this is a way out.You will bring the odds in your favour,there is always her thoughts of a big house in Canada,thais want to get out as much as you need to get out.TRY IT.as i said still go home and back to work this time in a better frame of mind.Im sure if you play it your way you will have the upper hand,thats what you need.NO MONEY,and best of luck to you.

[David in the north]

Sorry to read of your plight. Sadly my advice/opinion is far too late.
Never, ever, allow access to what by Thai standards is a large amount of money. In most cases it will simply be 'blown'