Obama's UK visit overshadowed by debate about leaving EU

[webfact]

Obama's UK visit overshadowed by debate about leaving EU
By JILL LAWLESS

LONDON (AP) — It's springtime in London, but President Barack Obama might sense a chill in the air.

The U.S. leader is being welcomed by British Prime Minister David Cameron and wined and dined by the royal family on a three-day visit to the U.K. that began late Thursday.

But Britain's looming June 23 referendum about whether to stay in the 28-nation European Union has strained the "special relationship," with several senior U.K. politicians bluntly telling the president to butt out of Britain's debate. They have branded Obama "anti-British" and "unsuccessful" and accused him of meddling for suggesting that the U.S. would be happier if Britain stayed in the bloc.

The White House says Obama is willing to speak out on the subject.

"If he's asked his view as a friend, he will offer it," U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes said, adding that the American stance was clear. "As the president has said, we support a strong United Kingdom in the European Union."

In an op-ed published in the Telegraph newspaper, Obama wrote that Great Britain's presence in the EU "magnifies" Britain's influence and helps spread "British values."

In the piece published Thursday evening as he arrived in London, Obama writes that he's offering his view "with the candour of a friend" and notes the decision will affect U.S. interests.

Obama's agenda before he leaves for Germany on Sunday includes talks with Cameron on the global economy, on countering an increasingly assertive Russia and on the fight against the Islamic State group.

Peter Wittig, Germany's ambassador to the U.S., told reporters Thursday he hopes Obama will use his influence with British politicians and society to try to persuade them to remain in the EU.

"I think that people will listen to him in the UK and I am sure he will find the right words for that," he said. "The UK looks to the U.S. It is a relationship with a long tradition and depth."

The president's British stopover — one of a series of international visits during his last year in office — will also include a lunch with Queen Elizabeth II at Windsor Castle on Friday — a day after her 90th birthday — and a dinner hosted by Prince William, his wife Kate and Prince Harry at the younger royals' Kensington Palace home.

But for the British media, the visit will be dominated by the debate over a possible EU exit, dubbed "Brexit."

Cameron, who is meeting Obama for talks Friday at 10 Downing St., is eager for the president's intervention. Cameron is leading the campaign to stay in the EU, but faces opposition from within his own Conservative government and widespread skepticism among voters about the benefits of membership in the bureaucratic Brussels-based behemoth that is the EU.

Obama's former campaign manager, Jim Messina, is advising Cameron's Remain campaign, another sore point for backers of the Leave side, who have lined up to accuse Obama of interfering.

Conservative lawmaker Jacob Rees-Mogg said Britons would not "want to be told what to do by a rather unsuccessful American president who has had one of the least successful foreign policies in modern history."

Nigel Farage, leader of the anti-immigrant U.K. Independence Party, called Obama "the most anti-British American president there has ever been."

Even London's Conservative mayor, Boris Johnson — born in New York and resolutely pro-American — has accused Obama of hypocrisy for urging Britain to give up some of its sovereignty to a powerful multinational body.

"I just think it's paradoxical that the United States, which wouldn't dream of allowing the slightest infringement of its own sovereignty, should be lecturing other countries about the need to enmesh themselves ever deeper in a federal superstate," Johnson said Tuesday.

Cameron said Wednesday that British voters will make the final decision about the country's future — but "listening to what our friends say in the world is not a bad idea."

"I struggle to find the leader of any friendly country that thinks we should leave," he said.

Tim Oliver, an expert in trans-Atlantic relations at the London School of Economics, says Obama is in a no-win situation.

"He would be criticized if he didn't say something, and he is criticized for saying something," Oliver said.

Obama is not the only American offering his opinion. Eight former U.S. Treasury chiefs said Wednesday in a letter to the Times of London that Brexit could diminish Britain's influence and threaten London's "global primacy" as a financial center.

Oliver said many American politicians, policymakers and diplomats regarded the EU referendum as "a bit of an unwanted headache" and believed a Brexit would weaken Britain on the world stage.

"From the U.S. perspective, this doesn't serve anyone's interest," he said. "It doesn't make sense for the U.S. It doesn't make sense for NATO. It doesn't make sense for the European Union. It doesn't even make sense for the U.K. So who does this benefit?"
___

Associated Press writers Maria Danilova and Kathleen Hennessey in Washington contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-04-22

[Grouse]

This going to be great! I expect all the Brexit loons will screaming and shouting at the audacity of it!

Obama is of course absolutely correct! He's a grown-up after all.

How about all the outists, the racists and little Englanders go to Trumpland and swap places with Bernie's civilised and educated youth and join us in culturally rich Europe?

Just a thought....

[Grouse]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/as-your-friend-let-me-tell-you-that-the-eu-makes-britain-even-gr/

Great stuff. True statesman!

Can't wait until the cartoonists give us the screaming Brexit brats at the feet of the master orator

[SgtRock]

Dear Mr President.

Save your energy and help sorting out America's internal sh!t and leave the Brits to sort out their own sh!t.

Poking your nose into others affairs never seems to have very good consequences.

[bassman]

Obama denouncing the Brexit bunch is like Trump being denounced by Kim Jong-un, mainstream media, the EU, China and the UN. Good on Obama to get the Brexit campaign heated up. The whole George Soros, globalize and socialize theory is at stake in both the US election and the Brexit vote. Enough is enough!

[pitrevie]

Obama denouncing the Brexit bunch is like Trump being denounced by Kim Jong-un, mainstream media, the EU, China and the UN. Good on Obama to get the Brexit campaign heated up. The whole George Soros, globalize and socialize theory is at stake in both the US election and the Brexit vote. Enough is enough!

You been listening to Glenn Beck again haven't you?

[Felipesed]

I am sure that President Obama is very much in favour of the way the EU is run.

There is none of this business of having to be elected every 4 years, and presenting your policies for approval from the electorate.

He could run the country without any checks from a regularly elected, overseeing Congress/Senate.

Spend money without any approval, and with no need for any auditing of how it was spent.

Bully and cajole States into adopting policies which cause extreme financial hardship for their citizens.

Flood the Country with illegal immigrants, many with values inimical to the established customs of the country.

Yes, I am sure that Obama is very fond of the EU structure.

At least America can get rid of him in November, European citizens do not have the privilege of an elected government!

[Grouse]

Dear Mr President.

Save your energy and help sorting out America's internal sh!t and leave the Brits to sort out their own sh!t.

Poking your nose into others affairs never seems to have very good consequences.

The USA is the world's super power. Unless the USA wants to become totally isolationist, this situation in the UK is of significant interest. Read up on historical isolationism.

BTW, if you don't understand Obama's achievements you might like to read up on that also.

[Grouse]

I am sure that President Obama is very much in favour of the way the EU is run.

There is none of this business of having to be elected every 4 years, and presenting your policies for approval from the electorate.

He could run the country without any checks from a regularly elected, overseeing Congress/Senate.

Spend money without any approval, and with no need for any auditing of how it was spent.

Bully and cajole States into adopting policies which cause extreme financial hardship for their citizens.

Flood the Country with illegal immigrants, many with values inimical to the established customs of the country.

Yes, I am sure that Obama is very fond of the EU structure.

At least America can get rid of him in November, European citizens do not have the privilege of an elected government!

Typical pub talk

Yes there are issues with the EU and nobody disagrees with that

HOWEVER the advantages of staying far outweigh the disadvantages

Obama's piece put it succinctly

Please do some more background reading and have it on my desk at 9am tomorrow ?

[Felipesed]

Here in Thailand Brexit is not a topic of conversation in bars amongst Thai people. I rarely frequent expat bars, so am not aware of what they discuss!

All in "IN" proponents have come up with is scare stories of what might happen if the UK leaves, not positive advantages.

The "OUT" proponents have 30 odd years experience of what EU membership entails, and most of it has not been to Britain's advantage.

You know as well as I that the EU is undemocratic by design and completely against reform. It will not, and cannot change.

The American people would never accept that system of government, and Obama is completely out of order pronouncing on such an issue.

I would also that it is against diplomatic protocol, but then he is only a Community Organiser dragged out of Chicago, so we cannot expect any better.

[Credo]

I don't think the President needs to be apologetic for his remarks. Most of the British people I know would prefer to stay in the EU, if the EU operated as it was originally set up to operate.

Most seem to feel that their culture, values as well as finances are no longer under their own control.

It is a referendum and the President and the US will abide with whatever decision is made by the British people.

[jayboy]

I don't think the President needs to be apologetic for his remarks. Most of the British people I know would prefer to stay in the EU, if the EU operated as it was originally set up to operate.

Most seem to feel that their culture, values as well as finances are no longer under their own control.

It is a referendum and the President and the US will abide with whatever decision is made by the British people.

If you are suggesting the best approach is reform within them I agree with you.UK would not be alone in seeking reform.Though there are dangers here I believe the best option is to remain.

It's amusing to note the nervousness the Brexit folks feel about Obama.What is never mentioned is Obama's astonishing level of popularity in the UK across all political parties - the last poll I saw gave a 76% approval rating.His endorsement of the Remain position could be the deciding factor.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Obama denouncing the Brexit bunch is like Trump being denounced by Kim Jong-un, mainstream media, the EU, China and the UN. Good on Obama to get the Brexit campaign heated up. The whole George Soros, globalize and socialize theory is at stake in both the US election and the Brexit vote. Enough is enough!

I don't think that the Brits need any advise from a Union Organizer

[Basil B]

America has said for a long time that the UK should remain, problem is their reasoning "it will not be good for the UK" and other weak and feeble justifications, real reason is it would not be good for America.

As we all know America only cares for itself.

[billd766]

This going to be great! I expect all the Brexit loons will screaming and shouting at the audacity of it!

Obama is of course absolutely correct! He's a grown-up after all.

How about all the outists, the racists and little Englanders go to Trumpland and swap places with Bernie's civilised and educated youth and join us in culturally rich Europe?

Just a thought....

Just a thought for you then.

If you want people to take notice of your posts why don't you stop being insulting to anybody who differs from your opinion and a little less arrogant in the way you write. They also have the same right as you do to post on this forum.

Politeness and good manners cost nothing though it seems that you lack this quality.

I will make an assumption that you DO have the legal right to vote on the Brexit but please remember that you, like me have only one vote and that like me whichever way the vote goes, Brexit or stay, we will all have to accept it, including the EU.

[craigt3365]

America has said for a long time that the UK should remain, problem is their reasoning "it will not be good for the UK" and other weak and feeble justifications, real reason is it would not be good for America.

As we all know America only cares for itself.

Hmmm...is that why American's are the most generous people on earth with regards to donations? Oops....looks like Myanmar sneaked in at the top this year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

http://mashable.com/2015/01/01/most-charitable-nations/#mg2JZc028Gq1

[Steely Dan]

I trust the British electorate will remember Obama's attitude to 'Los Malvinas' when considering his advice. As it is the crown prince of hubris might sound a bit more credible if he removed the border fence with Mexico and relocated the US supreme court to Toronto.

[dunroaming]

Nobody knows what would happen if the UK left the EU and won't know unless they do. Everyone has an opinion and that is all it is. Obviously we know what it is like being "in" but the realy interesting side of this is what would happen to the EU if we left. I suspect it may well fall apart and would then have to re-structure and start again. Now that would be an attractive scenario and a reason to leave. However that is speculation just like the rest of the hot air.

No reason why Obama shouldn't give his opinion the same as everyone else. The brexit gang are struggling to get any non Btitish influential figures to back their cause so of course they are against Obama speaking out.

[terryw]

Obama is arrogant and should remember that even ''the greatest country in the world'' needs friends. Maybe Queen Elizabeth should tell him a few home truths about the USA.

[Grouse]

This going to be great! I expect all the Brexit loons will screaming and shouting at the audacity of it!

Obama is of course absolutely correct! He's a grown-up after all.

How about all the outists, the racists and little Englanders go to Trumpland and swap places with Bernie's civilised and educated youth and join us in culturally rich Europe?

Just a thought....

Just a thought for you then.

If you want people to take notice of your posts why don't you stop being insulting to anybody who differs from your opinion and a little less arrogant in the way you write. They also have the same right as you do to post on this forum.

Politeness and good manners cost nothing though it seems that you lack this quality.

I will make an assumption that you DO have the legal right to vote on the Brexit but please remember that you, like me have only one vote and that like me whichever way the vote goes, Brexit or stay, we will all have to accept it, including the EU.

I had no intention to upset anybody and I apologise if you feel I was being impolite.

I am from Yorkshire and tend to speak bluntly

I have found that subtlety and irony do not work here

Incidentally, the screaming and shouting from Brexit Brats on Radio 4 today has been hilarious! Obama just "called it as he saw it"

I do get the vote and will use it in person

Again sorry for any offence

Mea culpa

[Grouse]

I trust the British electorate will remember Obama's attitude to 'Los Malvinas' when considering his advice. As it is the crown prince of hubris might sound a bit more credible if he removed the border fence with Mexico and relocated the US supreme court to Toronto.

Isn't the USA actually united States with some central oversight of the federation? I think the states are much stronger as a federal republic than separate states? Look at the benefits: single currency, free movement of labour. States have significant devolved powers of taxes and laws. Europe should do the same!

[Alwyn]

since when has the US been a friend of the UK? I remember how they betrayed us over the sovereignty of the Falklands. They have no friends and are only interested in their own agendas. I don't really care about that but people need to understand that Obama has no friendship with the UK unless it suits him. As for leaving or staying? Do what your brain tells you but read up as much as you can from both side first and be careful to filter out the bs

[Grouse]

More tosh

We got great support from USA during Falklands including supply of crucial sidewinder missiles

What about Second World War? We would never have been speaking German but without our cousins, we might have been speaking Russian!

Our nuclear deterrent is American (but with British warheads)

Shall I go on? Please say yes....

[Linzz]

I trust the British electorate will remember Obama's attitude to 'Los Malvinas' when considering his advice. As it is the crown prince of hubris might sound a bit more credible if he removed the border fence with Mexico and relocated the US supreme court to Toronto.

Isn't the USA actually united States with some central oversight of the federation? I think the states are much stronger as a federal republic than separate states? Look at the benefits: single currency, free movement of labour. States have significant devolved powers of taxes and laws. Europe should do the same!

As you said on another thread so for the benefit of your audience I will answer again:

Unlike the USA which is more or less a cohesive whole, where everyone shares the same language and immigrants have to learn English to assimilate as a requirement, the EU retains it's own cultures and language countries which makes it difficult to function as a cohesive whole. You really think German's and Greek's have anything in common? There is already a north - south wall.

Likewise any groups that retain their distinctly different cultural differences and resist becoming part of the society they moved to makes economics unworkable. Therefore Europe cannot become a United States with different cultures and languages and you can't force people to assimilate, it's not good for economics regardless of the "benefits" you express.

[Grouse]

Yes, sorry about that

There must be away to group these closely related threads

I accept your rebuttal and I agree there is a north south divide.

Maybe EU should only be open to anglophones?

On a serious note, the original Coal and Steel confederation really cemented together the key protagonists of word war 2. Seems to have worked pretty well to me!

Edited April 22, 2016 by Grouse

[SgtRock]

since when has the US been a friend of the UK? I remember how they betrayed us over the sovereignty of the Falklands. They have no friends and are only interested in their own agendas. I don't really care about that but people need to understand that Obama has no friendship with the UK unless it suits him. As for leaving or staying? Do what your brain tells you but read up as much as you can from both side first and be careful to filter out the bs

TTIP

[uksomchai]

This going to be great! I expect all the Brexit loons will screaming and shouting at the audacity of it!

Obama is of course absolutely correct! He's a grown-up after all.

How about all the outists, the racists and little Englanders go to Trumpland and swap places with Bernie's civilised and educated youth and join us in culturally rich Europe?

Just a thought....

So are you honestly telling me that your man Obama would sign a deal where South American countries could overrule the American supreme courts and sign away so much lawmaking about who can and cannot enter the Good Ol USA ?

Yeah right. just because it suits the American president for us to stay in the EU doesn't make it in any way shape or form the best thing for the British people

Utter hypocrisy in action !

Next you will be telling us all that the USA only goes around the world bombing and invading sovereign countries for their own good

[Mosha]

Would Obama be happy if a non Democratic group answerable to no one called the shots in the USA? I'm a Tyke and I just want to know.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

This is EXACTLY what the USA is

I keep saying

The USA IS 50 independent states under a Federal umbrella

States can make laws and raise taxes

BUT there is a common currency and free movement of labour

Familiar?

[Grouse]

A Tyke eh?

Nah then, Johns or Sams?

?