Crackdown On Foreign Teachers

[fanclubcm]

Remember, please, people, that TEACHING covers two entirely different kettles of fish here.

we have SUBJECT TEACHERS. For that group, I agree with the most stringent and restrictive of the posters here- bachelor's degree or higher, vetting, the works. What about refusals on positions for HOLDING a verifiable Phd. MBA BA BBA [from Excellent USA schools like Stanford] because you're [i.e. me] too over qualified=====more better educated [?] than almost there entire teachers/professors etc. WHAT DO YOU ADVISE?

However, the TEFL market simply can't get people with these qualifications for the money they offer- and it is very dubious whether people teaching such a skill really need that much higher education- and it is a very important and needed group of instructors (more than teachers) in Thailand. It's the only way country schools can get contact with native speakers. TEFLs are really enough in many cases.

"Steven"

Those travellers or permanent tourists who just come to teach for a month or two to get the money to continue their holiday. But if TEFLs sign one year contracts, ... sounds fair to me.

[dai ru55]

The fun will start in the new year, as the visa runners will be leaving Thailand for 180 days, and the schools here and also language centres will be screaming out for teachers.... but hey thai schools don't need English lessons, the schools have a no fail policy... so there pupils will still pass...

[johnnyk]

Somchai gets a passing grade, mommapoppa happeehappee.

School saves money by not hiring any English teachers.

Win-win, Thai style.

[pjallittle]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of Thailand!

HOW MANY THAI'S DO YOU KNOW THAT ARE AT EASE, FLUENT WITH ENGLISH. Those are most likely above the 90% population level AND CERTAINTLY [except for personal quest need] THEY DO NOT NEED TO WORK i.e. TEACH. get real

I don't live in Thailand but have visited several times and had the unique opportunity to address a Master's degree class at Assumption University, aka ABAC a few years ago. These were students that were aspiring to become official Ministry of Tourism employees and were, according to the inviting professor, the cream of the crop.

These were not high school kids, nor Universitly Grads, all of that was behind them. They were graduate students. What I can say with certaintly is that they may have understood half of what I said and perhaps because of my background, I understood about three-quarters of what they said.

Notwithstanding, they deserve a lot of credit for their efforts and we should do everything that we can to help them whether we have teacher's credentials or not.

[sting01]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

There is a branch of an excellent international teacher placement service in Chiang Mai, Search Associates. www.search-associates.net

They facilitate placement of properly qualified teachers in the better schools in Thailand as well as elsewhere in Asia or Europe or the MiddleEast.

The process may be slow and, at times, frustrating, but it is hardly impossible. Some of the people who have come to Thailand to teach are simply looking for a way to pick up pocket money while on an extended holiday. Many are poorly qualified at best and in some cases they are seeking situations which will put them in contact with children for reasons other than a desire to educate.

There is no guarantee that a rigorous screening process will ensure good teachers and screen out the misfits, but if children are saved from being exposed to whackos like that guy who was deported back to the US or some of the lazy functional illiterates who have been able to get teaching jobs in the past, then it is well worth the trouble.

Did the whacko deported in US was drinking champagne in the plane? What offense was comitted by him before to be deported? Did the whackos was a bad teacher? Did the whacko was a scrapgoat? (spelling???).

[sting01]

Remember, please, people, that TEACHING covers two entirely different kettles of fish here.

we have SUBJECT TEACHERS. For that group, I agree with the most stringent and restrictive of the posters here- bachelor's degree or higher, vetting, the works. What about refusals on positions for HOLDING a verifiable Phd. MBA BA BBA [from Excellent USA schools like Stanford] because you're [i.e. me] too over qualified=====more better educated [?] than almost there entire teachers/professors etc. WHAT DO YOU ADVISE?

However, the TEFL market simply can't get people with these qualifications for the money they offer- and it is very dubious whether people teaching such a skill really need that much higher education- and it is a very important and needed group of instructors (more than teachers) in Thailand. It's the only way country schools can get contact with native speakers. TEFLs are really enough in many cases.

"Steven"

Those travellers or permanent tourists who just come to teach for a month or two to get the money to continue their holiday. But if TEFLs sign one year contracts, ... sounds fair to me.

I think I agree.

By experience, I can strongly affirm the following :

A big amount of the born thai teachers do not have clue of english. I give a verifiable exemple : I affirm half of the thai staffs of the english department in Chayaphum boys school is not able to have a very basic conversation in english, due the lack in the following : grammar, vocabulary and accent (I do not say tone, but really accent, such vowels not pronouced, consums skipped or exchanged for another).

The needs for that school were clearly precised by the head of the english department ( a thai lady who is trully FLUENT in english and in more a great KRU) : we need white people who can make the kids talkative and who can correct the basis of the english.

You can call those people teachers, we use to call them repetitors in france. They do not teach (thai teachers are there for that, they just have to open the book and make the kid repeat). The so called english teachers are simply here to make the kids speak, and help the kids with the usual problem of prononciation : exemple 1.55 pm can be tell (shoud be?) it's 5 to 2 pm. More funny is 1.58 pm (2 to 2 pm). HEre all is in the tone and the accent, it is not?

I'll can be I shall or I will .... anyway who cares as long as I'll is acceptable (and accepted), a native or person fluent in english will use I'll, only pedantic or non native will get an hadhache to find if they have to use shall or will. By so, by not wastin time and by not bothering kids with I shall or I will, the so called english teacher will make english easy for the kid (I'll) and maybe will be able to avoid the kids to tell the time as : it's 15 past 4 o'clock (as they are still tought in Chayaphum boys school).

Anyway, to avoid misunderstanding I am not anymore in the teaching business (thought I did taught in the past, in such places as Chula Faculty or art , but it was french), but more some opinion on what is needed , and what is not needed. One thing we do have in france is native english (mostly students who will later be teachers, or fresh graduates who have never taught) who come and speak. They are not teachers, but God they are helpfull, because english is a stressed language , but mostly other human languages are not, so fact to be in contact with a native speaker help a lot, even if the native speaker is not a real teacher with 10 years of experience in Oxford.

So maybe that is more the whole system that must be re think. Stop to call the english teachers teachers, and stop to ask for credentials that are not needed, maybe call those people simply repetitors, maybe more than credentials simply use test (oral test), and ease (more than tighten) the way they can be hired. Then the real teachers will be called teachers, have the salary they deserve, the repetitors being (like in france) people who simply help, or gain an experience, having easily (but without hope to renew it) a valid visa (let say they can have a one year , 2 semesters, visa but only one time in the life time). It's not important if the person who 'teach' a classroom : Hey, I'm Bob , I come from Nebraska, what's you name? is a bacchelor or not, what's important is the kids understand and answer, and eventually a dialog start btw the classroom and the person in front of the classroom.

[PhuKradung]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

This is impossible, and congratulations to the affected schools for telling the government so.

How could the issuing university have known that Sally W. Jones would become Sally Wilhemina Thompson? What about people with two last names, such as Sotheby-Covington or Herrerra Rodriguez?

All types of Thai schools in Thailand don't wait to get their teachers fully certified; they almost always set them right to work in the classroom, teaching illegally. That's the Thai way, Thai style.

Where does Thailand's government think we are - Singapore? Perhaps the teachers soon will be.

All legitimate universities keep ongoing records of past students/graduates. I had a similar situation when applying for a professional work permit in Malaysia, they needed certified copies of degree certificates, academic transcripts, etc. I didn't have the academic transcript but when I contacted my university they immediately sent these out with letter of confirmation that I was a graduate from that particular university.

The fact that you marry and change your surname is no big deal and certainly not an issue from traceability point of view. (a) you will have your spinster name on degree certificate and ( your marriage certificate will have both your new married surname and spinster name so traceability does exist.

This is certainly a step in the right direction for Thailand. I have a young daughter at school in Chiang Mai and having visited the school on several ocassions I see several 'teachers' who I do not consider to be proper qualified teachers. Not only do they not have their heart in teaching but they also appear to be in holiday mood all the time where the school teaching bit is a burden to them. Well done Thailand for imposing this rule and shake up, it can only go towards improving the situation and winkling out the dross.

[nikster]

- Teachers from countries where English is not an official language must present evidence of English-language fluency, in the form of standardized test results with the following minimum scores: IELTS 5.5; or TOEFL 550 or TOEIC 600.

Does this mean that all newly hired Thai teachers must have achieved a minimum score on one of these tests?

Chownah

LOL, well said - points out the absurdity of this plan. A half-baked idea which fails even a cursory reality check.

The reality is, Thailand has too few english teachers so making the requirements more stringent is not going to improve the situation. Jeez.

English teachers should be invited with open arms, issued visas, given more money, and once there is more supply than demand, you can start upping the quality requirements. There are of course many teachers without a piece of paper who are very good and that would have to be taken into account by a sensible system.

I am not a teacher, but I do sympathize and I love this country - it hurts to see Thailand shooting itself in the foot like this.

As a non-native speaker who took the TOEFL I also want to add that 550 on TOEFL really isn't very hard. The main annoyance is to have to deal with the retarded TOEFL organization but it's pretty easy to score over 600.

[bkkandrew]

Have you spent time in Thailand ? Have you heard Thais speaking English?

Any Thai that can speak English fluently will already have or be applying for a job that is far higher paid than any English language school is prepared to offer.

That would be akin to expecting English speakers to learn Thai from a farang who is fluent in Thai.

Any farang fluent in Thai will be able to hold a high paying job in this country as well.

The reason they hire native speakers is so that Thai students can learn correct pronunciation and learn something of the western culture. .

Quite so. As a decent speaker of Thai and an English native I would agree that I would only be tempted by B250000+ to do any kind of work. In addition, I don't have a Bachelor's Degree, so teaching would seem impossible. Also I hate the idea of teaching rather than doing something, so that wouldn't work either...

Edited November 3, 2006 by bkkandrew

[Belgarath]

Being a Swede with a Master in Nuclear Physics but nothing in English or Pedagogics - I think my English is pretty good, spoken and written. I just wonder about how native the English has to be....

Last winter I sat in BKK talking to an English teacher there, he was professional, I seem to recall that he had a degree in pedagogics, thou he had worked most of his life as a postman. He was happy there in Thailand teaching English to young people since a year back - and he was from Wales..... VERY "native" English, I barely understood him! I can imagine a pile of small Thai kids going out in the world talking their English with a Welsh intonation........

Never heard any native English speaker teaching English in Sweden, and if you have heard a guy from Norway speaking English - at a distance he sounds like he speaks Norwegian with that intonation..... But I sure understand his English better than the guy from Wales.

[DrFisher]

Actually once you have a work permit it is easy enough to get another job or part time job and add it to your work permit, you won't have to go through another check once the permit and visa are issued. For example, even as a volunteer you require a work permit, I have a full time job that takes care of my work permit and I volunteer in my free time. In this case the foundation I volunteer for gave me a letter and I took it to the Department of labor where they added a page in my permit book authorizing me to work there. It honestly is not hard to get the proper visa and work permit if you have the proper credentials, I rather think it would be more difficult in our home countries to get these things if we were foreigner.

[astral]

Regarding the opening post: We Told Them So.

Setting new rules in the VACATION period in the MIDDLE of a school year changing the requirements for teachers to work was *particularly* stupid, though, I think. True and lasting change takes planning and time. Attempting it in this rushed, poorly-timed, ill-thought-out way is simply a guarantee of failure. Of course, that was assuming that this was meant to succeed- a big assumption.

"Steven"

I think you should refer them to a lawyer.

You cannot vary the terms of a contract in the middle of the contract, except by MUTUAL agreement.

Thailand is no exception to this.

However if you want your contract renewed, you may have your hands tied.

[KireB]

Let's just wait and see what will happen. The new regulations might also become an opportunity for those who'll meet the new standards. IOW more money!

[paulmw]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

Was this a joke?

Private school.

The owner has little, The principle none, Head Thai teacher about as good asmy Thai crap,10 thai teachers about zero The cook has some due to working in Pattaya does she count SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.!

Paul

[bwana1952]

Regulating cowboy schools in the way suggested in the article might actually be a good thing overall. It would focus schools on planning ahead for their annual intake of teachers, organising well in advance background checks to make sure they are qualified, and most importantly from the teachers perspective, ensuring that the schools put together a decent compensation package so that people are incentivised to hang around.

lt hasn't taken long for schools to realize that this new system is not going to work in a practical sense. Teachers are already flooding out of the country and this will force the salary packages up as well as school fees to pay for them. Peopel are not going to fly in from half way round the world to work for $ 1,000 / month or less, not when other countries are offering 3 - 5 times those sort of penny ante salaries.

For all sorts of reasons, many of which ahve been mentioned here, this new system in unworkable. Who suffers from it the most ? The students do, now and in ten years time when their lack of English means they are uncompetitive in the world labour market place. A very short sighted policy to begin with has made things even worse.

By all means tighten up on regulations, but give people fair warning, give them time to adapt, upgrade quals. Weed out the cowboys. This sledgehammer approach, will scare people off and they will be a long time coming back, if in fact, they ever do.

[Cromarty]

Anyone who has a degree from the UK can get a transcript of Study even if they graduated in 1930. All you need to do is contact the University and sometimes pay a small fee. It is hassle free, I got transcripts from 3 different Uni's for my qualifications and only Leeds charged.

I welcome these changes, just because you are a native speaker doesn't mean you can teach. I think they should insist on formal teaching qualifications and I don't mean micky mouse TEFL either. If you have a TEFL all you would get in the UK is a language assistant job or a language summer school. It should be the same here.

[thymode91]

Now forgive me for being sceptical but two predictions surface here.

1. The transcripts record keeper is going to be mightily ticked off if they start getting four sets of verification requests each time someone applies for a job in Thailand - some teachers I know, work simultaneously at four or five establishments = 20 requests for transcript verification? (plus the ones from places where they only work for a short time before moving on - it could become 20 requests per year per teacher)

Gaz

Fri 03 Nov 06, 8:12 p.m.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the work permit locks you into a single school, working on the premises of that school. So freelancing, part timing, multiple employers, as well as the common practice of being farmed out to other venues by the primary employer is technically improper and/or illegal.

Aloha,

Rex

You are definitely correct!

[paulmw]

Anyone who has a degree from the UK can get a transcript of Study even if they graduated in 1930. All you need to do is contact the University and sometimes pay a small fee. It is hassle free, I got transcripts from 3 different Uni's for my qualifications and only Leeds charged.

I welcome these changes, just because you are a native speaker doesn't mean you can teach. I think they should insist on formal teaching qualifications and I don't mean micky mouse TEFL either. If you have a TEFL all you would get in the UK is a language assistant job or a language summer school. It should be the same here.

And the salary as well ??

Paul.

[Hublet]

It is about time that teaching English in Thailand was put under the microscope.

I agree that there are many people "teaching" when they should be doing something else. How many times have I heard "I speak English so therefore I can teach English". Right so that means that all the Teachers (worldwide) did their degrees and studies for naught .

And I'm sure when a student stops you mid stride and asks why it is

"Up with which I will not put" versus "I will not put up with it".

How many so called trained teachers can say which of the above is correct.

Or why or when (exactly) is the letter A pronounced Aye or with a short a as in apple and how do you tell.

How many Native, but not educated, English speakers and teachers know their phonemes or phonetics, both of which are needed if you are to teach someone how to speak another language. Most native English speakers are not introduced to these unless they have/are learnt/ing another language.

Yes sure any Joe Blog/Annie May can teach English and I'm sure that the UK and Australia would let them walk into any of their schools and let you teach their children without any qualifications or background checks.

Learning the official Tinglish versus English is an entirely different issue. If you care to read some of the issues arising in Singapore you will see it is becoming a class thing. Are you ready to learn Pure English or are you happy to learn Tinglish. Very few people actually teach Pure English anymore even within the Teaching of Teachers. I know I had more than a few run ins with one of my Teachers who claim he spoke and taught English. He, by the way, was a Cockney and I and many others had a very hard time just understanding his speech let alone what he was trying to teach.

P.S. Having a degree to get a work permit in Thailand is not new.

The ranting and raving of those of you who think this is a bad thing tells a lot about you.

[massein]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

I agree, in the isolated villege i reside in, the local high school came to me last term and ask that i assist them in there english program, in 1 class. I informed them that I'm completely unquailified, and only have a associate degree from a community college, futher more the question is often ask bye my aussie and brite friend what language i'm speaking. since i'm from texas and apparently have a draw. Never the less , I agree to assist in helping in the senior class. I assumed that i would be assisting another teacher as an aid. not so. I found myself alone is a class of 25. Having to create a class outline, before the week was out i was also teaching the 10th , and 11th graders. don't be alarmed this only amounts to 6 hours a week, I receive a called this week since the break is over to come back next week and start again, I pray that i don't have the 9th graders as well, Ibegged them to seek a qualified teacher, to no avail . You will notice that my grammer is lacking, and i have and spelling handicap. For this service i get a gift of 100฿ per hour, for which i could easily decline, if my wife did not insist that i not become a total buffalo. Cheers

[souldesire]

Being a Swede with a Master in Nuclear Physics but nothing in English or Pedagogics - I think my English is pretty good, spoken and written. I just wonder about how native the English has to be....

Last winter I sat in BKK talking to an English teacher there, he was professional, I seem to recall that he had a degree in pedagogics, thou he had worked most of his life as a postman. He was happy there in Thailand teaching English to young people since a year back - and he was from Wales..... VERY "native" English, I barely understood him! I can imagine a pile of small Thai kids going out in the world talking their English with a Welsh intonation........

Never heard any native English speaker teaching English in Sweden, and if you have heard a guy from Norway speaking English - at a distance he sounds like he speaks Norwegian with that intonation..... But I sure understand his English better than the guy from Wales.

Yeah,

A Swede understands a Norwegian's English better than a Welshman's. Thats ok then!

I think that you will find that Wales is a bilingual country and they have been speaking English a lot longer than Scandinavians.

[John K]

Just some quick points.

Is the intent good? YES

Is it realistic? Not before they dig deeper in their wallet.

Will it work? Not until student who should not advance, do not advance.

Will they find enough qualified teachers? Not unless they make getting visas and staying in Thailand easier.

Translation: Face showing and 60-20-20

Edited November 4, 2006 by John K

[brazil]

this just seems a response to the american teacher who was arrested for the murder of the us schoolgirl in thailand.

I cannot believe that so many of you are welcoming this new regulation.

if you pay large fees for your kids in thailand you will always get teachers with degrees and background checks who in turn will be paid 50k to 90k a month for a salary

but at the same time those teachers with degrees are not crazy enough to come to thailand and work 6 days a week for 30k a month and no way will the thais pay more and more a month at the bottom end of the market.

there are very few thai teachers who can master the english language, as most thais who can are well to do and from wealthy families for whom will never take up a teaching post.

everyone welcomes better quality teaching, but is it practical to do it this way?

and how much cost is involved for the amount of man hours to do a background check on every teaching post for the thai government?

[PhilHarries]

Foreign teachers: eligible bachelors only need apply

- The name of the teacher must match that on his/her passport and academic degree;

Excuse me I've only just read this post and I'm not a teacher but isn't the above requirement a case of stating the bluddy obvious?

[teepruksa]

In my view, a crackdown on illegal & unqualified teachers in Thailand had to come sooner, or later. Things had become ludicrous backpackers, brickies, plumbers, sailors, alkies, crackheads, perverts etc being able to walk into a teaching position in Thailand - since standards did not exist, or were not properly enforced. I wonder how many of these folks would be able to try the same trick in Europe?

Hopefully, this will now weed out most of the rubbish & allow a decent salary to be paid to the properly-qualified folks who serve their profession with pride.

The Thais could consider two groups:

1. Properly qualified teachers, with all the correct certification;

2. Teachers assistants - which would allow the previous bunch to do some work, but in a recognised & monitored way.

Once these new restrictions are in place, then, hopefully the salary scales for professional teachers will rise to an appropriate level.

Edited November 4, 2006 by teepruksa

[PhilHarries]

Sorry, was a heavy night. I just realised that marriage (for women) and name change (via deed poll) are in there somewhere.

But surely this can be covered by official notarised paperwork?

[bchcomber]

Lots of folks reading this thread...

Remember, please, people, that TEACHING covers two entirely different kettles of fish here.

On the one hand, we have SUBJECT TEACHERS. For that group, I agree with the most stringent and restrictive of the posters here- bachelor's degree or higher, vetting, the works.

However, the TEFL market simply can't get people with these qualifications for the money they offer- and it is very dubious whether people teaching such a skill really need that much higher education- and it is a very important and needed group of instructors (more than teachers) in Thailand. It's the only way country schools can get contact with native speakers. TEFLs are really enough in many cases.

"Steven"

TEFL Certificates have no regulatory board at all! Some are under written by Cambridge University but there is no International Standards Board or anything for TESL certificates. Anyone could start a school in Thailand and offer TESL Certification (Pattaya-Bangkok) as long as the Certificate is accepted by the MOE. Hmmm a large envelope or kickbacks should get that acceptance happening! What about diploma mills in the United States! they off legitimate Degrees with transcripts and Diploma and transcript verification. A Bachelor degree can be had for 325.00 USD! and yes it's legal and yes it's real. They call them life Degrees as somone who never went to University but has been working in the feild for 20 years possesses more knowledge than your said Graduate. Thus the life experience degree!

Transcripts are for Universities and Educational institutes to use to help further someones education. Some Universities do not recognize other Universities and please remember many Universities Education is a business MONEY!!

How about Honorary Doctorates they are true Doctorates and verifiable! Nothing like a heafty donation to a University and presto your a Doctor of philosophy!

All around the world there are Private Educational Institues that offer Degrees that can be verified but are not acceptable to other Universites for continuing education? Oh but they will accept you as a student though (money) they will allow you enter as an Adult student giving you 2 years towards your degree and making you pay for 2 more years. Business Aministration degrees at many Universities offer this as many people who have worked in busniess for years wish to re-educate themselves and get that piece of paper recognition.

Yes the Government has valid concernes with regards to quality of the teachers employed here from other countries!

From reading this thread the TESL teachers without degrees have valid points with regards to Thai teachers and their ability to teach english. How can someone who has never been to an english speaking country ever get the true grasp of speaking native english? What about grammar? Many englsih grammar books offered here are written by Thai for profit! Education is Money remember! Have you tried looking at those grammar books? try checking the spelling, I looked at 3 in a book store that were being offered to Thai, stating English grammar made easy? All 3 had bad grammar and spelling errors on the first couple of pages. Many Schools English language departments have Thai teacher who can't even speak english? Not ony in Thailand but many other counties in Asia!

I also see teachers who were educated as teachers praising the new rules and saying it's about time? It's about time Thailand kicked out someone who is willing to work for 10-30,000 baht a month? Somone who only has TESL certification? Somone who didn't go to school and get one of those fancy degrees but worked in an English speaking country for years and has a pretty good grasp on the Englsih language? Why are they not acceptable as Native Englsih Speaking Teachers?

Because they didn't go the distance and get a degree? Who say's getting a degree even qualifies you to be a good teacher! I remember school and some of my teachers, degree and all were useless!

I learned more about Business from working and life than I ever did from my University professor! and he had a Doctorate? It's not the paper you have it's the knowledge you have! It's not the paper you have it's your ability to teach!

B.A's B.S. Masters Doctorate TESL it's all paper that says you passed the tests. But can you teach?

Do you need papers to be a Parent? Some people make good parents and some not! What about the guy who has a masters degree or Doctorate in Education but his wife can manage and teach his kid's ten time better than him?

Teaching isn't about paper it's about helping someone learn, you win when you student understands! It's not the paper or the Degree it's the reward of having the person you teach understand what you are teaching. Yes some teching jobs do require someone with a higher understanding of the Englsih language and those jobs are out there and they pay well too!!! Your education ( Degree ) gives you your financial reward and recognition from your piers.... That recognition of being a real teacher. One with a Degree a licence! But can you teach?

I took the time to read all the postings in this thread and everyone has valid concerns and valid statements with regards to Thailands educational system.

Heres a valid Question:

How many Thai Officials have purchased Degrees? to get further up the ladder or to better their face in Thailand.

Unfortunately this country has the amazing ability to enact rules with thinking of the pitfalls. (Shooting themselves in the foot only to realize they have to walk on it).

Another reason the officials enact such strange rules is pressure from Western Countries (face) Yes face, this thing with that wacko from the states is a prime example.

The Thai lost big face! Yes the guy was a certified nut case but he did have a legal degree and he was a licenced teacher in the USA. The Thai Government and News papers praised themselves for helping catch this man and then the Bangkok Post slammed the Thai government with regards to letting a murder teach in Thailand. Murder? Seem to me he was absolved of that crime and to top it off the FBI didn't want him, they rulled him out as a suspect?(Oops loss of Face) The Colorado State police came here with a warrant that was issued by a Judge without the athority to have someone extraditied from another country. Yes it was Colorado State police that came to get him.

I do believe if reading the whole story and understanding the US judicial system the FBI has to seek a warrant and then the US Marshalls office has to go fetch the criminal, not the Colorado State Police. Oh yea isn't Jon Bonnets father super wealthy and has huge interests in the State of Colorado? Somehow I seem to remember reading the family are still concidered suspects in the murder by the FBI? Jon Bonnets father has offered a huge rewards HUGE! to find his daughters killer! and to clear his family name too! (Money)

Let me finish with the above statement; this man was wiered and he was wanted on charges in the State of California but none that were extraditable. Yes they were porn related involving minors and yes that's bad! Question? Was he charged in Thailand for any offences with regards to minors? No! How about the other countries he taught in? No! Has the State of California convicted him as of yet? No!

Don't forgret this man had A masters degree in education and was at one time a licenced teacher in the USA!

Yep a guy with tons of education and fancy paper and certificates!

Maybe? yes Maybe it's not the Certification of someones capiblity to teach but their past that should be brought into question! Criminal history check? Seem most Western and European Countries require one when seeking employment!

I myself am not a scholar by any means and I couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag! Is my Grammar the greatest? Nope! Do I have a Degree yes! A Masters Degree from an recognized International University. Yep my spelling is horrible (thank god for spell check) and my written grammar isn't the greatest either. I can however speak and comprhened English! I can even use big fancy words that I can't spell, I even know how to use them in a oral sentence!

Can I teach? I try! The people I help with English seem to be doing ok!

Teaching is a gift degree's or no degree's good techers are hard to find!

Thank you for reading my grammar ridden post and hope that what I have written hasn't offended anyone as this wasn't my intention! We are all here in Thailand for what ever reason, helping another human being in life is it's own reward! Everyone thinks differently and has different opinions on every subject of life.(Thus Free will)

The North American Indians have a saying; It takes a Village to raise a Child

Everyone has been a Teacher in some way or another in their life! Some good, some bad, some without even knowing it!

Thank you Again all

Bchcomber

[richard10365]

I think if the government gets it way, then there will be a great shortage of farang teachers. I'm not sure who would suffer more, the children or the unqualified farang English teachers.

Once they take the genie out of the bottle, its going to be hard to get him/her back in. Point being, it will take years to repair the damage caused by this decision.

The only two viable options I see are:

1. Raise the pay of farang teachers (comparable of what is offered in Japan or Korea) to attract more qualified teachers.

2. Keep the employment standards low and the pay the way it is to ensure there will be plenty of teachers available to work throughout Thailand.

The Thai combination of my 2 options (low pay and high qualifications) will only ensure the rich schools will only have farang English teachers. Thus making sure only rich kids will have a good education in English while leaving the poor kids to fend for themselves.

[Loaded]

In my view, a crackdown on illegal & unqualified teachers in Thailand had to come sooner, or later. Things had become ludicrous backpackers, brickies, plumbers, sailors, alkies, crackheads, perverts etc being able to walk into a teaching position in Thailand - since standards did not exist, or were not properly enforced. I wonder how many of these folks would be able to try the same trick in Europe?

Just to put your comments in context:

The deputy Prime Minister of the UK is an ex merchant seaman, many backpackers are on a one year sabatical after completing university, and some of the most profitable companies in the UK right now are construction companies founded by ex brickies.

Alkies, crackheads and perverts seem to prefer being a representative of God (priests, TV evangelistics etc.).

[PeaceBlondie]

Teepruksa's suggestion, above, is to have two or more 'tiers' or levels of teacher. Great idea. Here's another example of tiers:

1. The real, professional B.Ed. who's a native speaker of English from an English speaking country (not a Filipino), properly certified or registered as a teacher by his own govt. Pay them a minimum of 110K baht per month, since that's what they earn back home (with a pension plan, etc.).

2. An educated native speaker, with a BA or BS in any subject, who also took a TEFL course. Pay them 50K.

3. A native speaker without a bachelor's degree, but who took a TEFL course. Pay them 30K.

John Mark Karr had a real degree, but wasn't a certified teacher, and probably never held down a real teaching job, long time. He might fit into category 2, above.

As Steven points out, the timing of this crackdown (and it is a crackdown at this point, without raids) during the October break was very poorly thought out. It is a change in both policy and practice, and they - the government - don't know what they're doing.

Surely, we need to weed out the undesirables in Thai TEFL. Shirley, this isn't the best way to do it.