Gay couple wins custody battle against Thai surrogate mother

[Asheron]

Is a kid created via the use of Viagra unnatural?

Need biology lessons?

If conception only occurred because of the use of a chemical, how is that natural?

So Viagra creates sperme?

[Jingthing]

So better not to exist at all than have no Mum. Sounds like something a right to lifer would say.

[JUDAS]

When I look at my home country and see how many single mothers there are who's kids were quite often conceived after a drunken one night stand and compare that situation to this, a number of points stand out clearly. These guys made a conscious decision to become parents. They invested time and a not inconsiderable amount of money to bring a child into this world. When the going got tough they didn't turn and run, they stood and fought. Standing beside your child through the toughest of times is one of the many attributes a good parent has. These guys have want it takes to be good parents by the bucket full. No doubt in my mind.

[Asheron]

Asheron the two are kind of intertwined no?

And raising a kid is more of an anthropological endeavour.

Intertwined how exactly?

[SoiBiker]

Is a kid created via the use of Viagra unnatural?

Need biology lessons?

If conception only occurred because of the use of a chemical, how is that natural?

So Viagra creates sperme?

I think it's you who needs a biology lesson.

[Asheron]

Need biology lessons?

If conception only occurred because of the use of a chemical, how is that natural?

So Viagra creates sperme?

I think it's you who needs a biology lesson.

Nope, clearly you do.

[Jingthing]

So does anyone know how long the surrogate woman has to decide whether to file an appeal or not? Or how that works? Surely, this family can't be expected to have to wait in Thailand INDEFINITELY before that decision is made, right?

[smotherb]

If you want to have children get into a relationship with the opposite sex. If you choose to be in a gay relationship then the natural consequence is that it should be childless. That is the choice you make being gay.

The choice they made being gay was to have children.

But they can't.....A blind man wants too see, but he can't..

The Thai court just awarded them custody, so they can.

"Bangkok's Juvenile and Family Court ruled that the legal guardian of the 15-month-old child, named Carmen, is her American biological father, Gordon Lake" http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/912893-gay-couple-wins-custody-battle-against-thai-surrogate-mother/?utm_source=newsletter-20160427-0706&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

Gordon is the biological father. Are you advocating the denial of a father the right to his child?

[gandalf12]

How is the child going to handle it, never mind these guys? Goes to school and tells everyone at school this is my dad and this is my dad. How do they explain were the mother is? I would think it would potentially cause a lot of psychological issues for the child. What the adults go through I am not interested in but it is the child that will have the difficult time

[Kaalle]

Asheron the two are kind of intertwined no?

And raising a kid is more of an anthropological endeavour.

Intertwined how exactly?

"anthropology draws and builds upon knowledge from the social and biological sciences as well as the humanities and physical sciences."

http://www.americananthro.org/

Hate to copy and paste but of course a study of human culture and behavior is going to have a biological component.

[DM07]

How is the child going to handle it, never mind these guys? Goes to school and tells everyone at school this is my dad and this is my dad. How do they explain were the mother is? I would think it would potentially cause a lot of psychological issues for the child. What the adults go through I am not interested in but it is the child that will have the difficult time

...because of people like you, who minimize "family" to mom+dad+ child!

[JUDAS]

How is the child going to handle it, never mind these guys? Goes to school and tells everyone at school this is my dad and this is my dad. How do they explain were the mother is? I would think it would potentially cause a lot of psychological issues for the child. What the adults go through I am not interested in but it is the child that will have the difficult time

Kids get picked on for a vast variety of different reasons. I can say with certainty that the younger generation are far more accepting of homosexual relationships than the middle aged/elderly. It was the open support of the younger people in America that actually swung public opinion in favour of gay marriage.

[Mudcrab]

I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim.

Women, of course, lesbians or not, can naturally produce children with a very short visit from a male or turkey baster. No need for any male to be involved in parenting.

Your's confusing parenting with inseminating.

[Jingthing]

How is the child going to handle it, never mind these guys? Goes to school and tells everyone at school this is my dad and this is my dad. How do they explain were the mother is? I would think it would potentially cause a lot of psychological issues for the child. What the adults go through I am not interested in but it is the child that will have the difficult time

...because of people like you, who minimize "family" to mom+dad+ child!

There are thousands of kids like this now in many nations. They will deal with it just like children deal with having any other kinds of differences from their peers.

With two Dads, it's probably usually harder with boys.

As a Jew if I was raised in a town with no Jews, that would have been something hard to deal with too. We don't say Jews shouldn't be allowed to be parents because of potential bullying issues, right? Same diff.

I would say it'll make a difference where the children are raised. A socially progressive place, fewer issues and there will be support from the school and community. Some backwards place, no support or even the opposite.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[Mudcrab]

Amazing!

All these bigots, who pretend to have the best for the child at heart!

So: here is a child, who will have parents who will love her, care for her, give her (probably) a good life, full of opportunities...and all you have a problem with is "two-dads-no-mom"?

Seriously?

A human being was created to appease a couple of blokes, and you think that is in a new born best interest...

Answer me this, the kid grows up..."Where is my mum".........?

Now what are these two blokes going to reply....Tell me.....

Exactly, not much different from Dr. Frankenstein creating a monster for his own selfish motives.

This is not a normal child, these are not normal men. How on earth could two adult men be so selfish beats me. They should have bought a poodle and dressed it in pink.

They are meddling in the natural law of evolution, if there is such a thing. Shame on them and any other gay couple demanding rights that they are not deserving.

Shame on the people here defending such a perverse situation.

Wow!

Just wow!

I would like to tell you, what I think about you- but I like my posting rights!

Let me say this: your post is one of the most @#$%&! up sh1t, I have seen in a long time!

I bet, you call yourself a "good Christina", right?!

That'd be Christina...with a beard?

[SoiBiker]

If you want to have children get into a relationship with the opposite sex. If you choose to be in a gay relationship then the natural consequence is that it should be childless. That is the choice you make being gay.

The choice they made being gay was to have children.

But they can't.....A blind man wants too see, but he can't..

The Thai court just awarded them custody, so they can.

"Bangkok's Juvenile and Family Court ruled that the legal guardian of the 15-month-old child, named Carmen, is her American biological father, Gordon Lake" http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/912893-gay-couple-wins-custody-battle-against-thai-surrogate-mother/?utm_source=newsletter-20160427-0706&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

Gordon is the biological father. Are you advocating the denial of a father the right to his child?

The way it was done...Yes....Baby to order cos the guy don't like ladies....It's shit..

So if they'd adopted, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

[Mudcrab]

As far as a possible appeal, on what grounds would the appeal be made? Didn't the surrogate woman already make her case, which was lost? So wouldn't there have to be something new to show? So an appeal would most likely lose. But I can see that one benefit of an appeal would be to DRAG this out even longer hoping the parents just get worn down by time and money being stuck in Thailand.

So because it's about a gay couple you don't think the woman should be able to appeal? Do you have this same view about anything court related?

She has no genetic or biological link to the child.

If that is the standard gay response to a mother who has had another life attached to her womb and nurtured, fed and talked to the life growing inside her for 9 months and then gone through the pain of childbirth then God help us all.

Aldous Huxley would be so proud.

[Mudcrab]

Another depressing Thaivisa thread where aging bigots are given a platform for their outdated, unpleasant opinions.

Why would a bigot have to be aging?

Bigots come in all shapes and sizes and believe it or not ages.

Do not assume all those beyond a certain age are bigots, because that is in itself a form of prejudicial thinking.

And that is not allowed......no opinion allowed to be expressed that doesn't meet with your values and is thus predjudicial.

Thank God for the non PC Asia.

I hope the PC rot doesn't spread from the West to here. And I don't mean TVF, it's already well embedded there.

[Mudcrab]

I rarely post on TV anymore but reading this thread has got my back up. I consider myself a "family man" and as such I'm delighted with the result of this court case as a child will now be raised by 2 people who are obviously totally devoted to her. Bravo

You are right, but the kid should never have never been put in this situation..

Of having two loving parents willing to fight for it?

Some kids should be so lucky.

It.....sort of sums up the discussion.

She is not an it.

[SoiBiker]

If you want to have children get into a relationship with the opposite sex. If you choose to be in a gay relationship then the natural consequence is that it should be childless. That is the choice you make being gay.

The choice they made being gay was to have children.

But they can't.....A blind man wants too see, but he can't..

The Thai court just awarded them custody, so they can.

"Bangkok's Juvenile and Family Court ruled that the legal guardian of the 15-month-old child, named Carmen, is her American biological father, Gordon Lake" http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/912893-gay-couple-wins-custody-battle-against-thai-surrogate-mother/?utm_source=newsletter-20160427-0706&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

Gordon is the biological father. Are you advocating the denial of a father the right to his child?

The way it was done...Yes....Baby to order cos the guy don't like ladies....It's shit..

So if they'd adopted, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

No, cos the guardians would tell the kid..."We came forward to take care of you cos you have no parents, your mum and dad are dead, your mum and dad don't want you, your mum and dad....."...

So basically, despite all your attempts to argue about the details, you just don't think gay people should be allowed to raise kids?

[Mudcrab]

It would be interesting if the people who are so strongly against the two daddies scenario could provide us with details as to what horrors the child will be subjected to? Dont mention the prospect of bullying, kids are bullied for having glasses and being fat and the solution is not banning glasses.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/babies-toddlers-becoming-targets-paedophiles/1927425/

Well heres one possibilty.

Not likely agreed...but possible

[Mudcrab]

You can talk all day long about what should have happened but the reality is what has to be dealt with. So the child is not better off with the gay males who clearly are devoted to her? Is that what you are saying. Would she be better off being raised by the state in an orphanage or by a biological mother who, in this case, doesn't seemed to actually want her. What's best for the child? "The child should never have been created" adds nothing to the reality.

Devoted to her......she hasn't left her mother yet.....where is it clear?

If the mother didn't want her why are they fighting in court?

Get real the argument is about a contract not if the mother is the "mother"

Edited April 27, 2016 by Mudcrab

[Bluespunk]

As far as a possible appeal, on what grounds would the appeal be made? Didn't the surrogate woman already make her case, which was lost? So wouldn't there have to be something new to show? So an appeal would most likely lose. But I can see that one benefit of an appeal would be to DRAG this out even longer hoping the parents just get worn down by time and money being stuck in Thailand.

So because it's about a gay couple you don't think the woman should be able to appeal? Do you have this same view about anything court related?

She has no genetic or biological link to the child.

If that is the standard gay response to a mother who has had another life attached to her womb and nurtured, fed and talked to the life growing inside her for 9 months and then gone through the pain of childbirth then God help us all.

Aldous Huxley would be so proud.

She agreed to carry the baby for money.

She has no biological link to the child.

Why do you suppose I'm gay?

[Bluespunk]

Another depressing Thaivisa thread where aging bigots are given a platform for their outdated, unpleasant opinions.

Why would a bigot have to be aging?

Bigots come in all shapes and sizes and believe it or not ages.

Do not assume all those beyond a certain age are bigots, because that is in itself a form of prejudicial thinking.

And that is not allowed......no opinion allowed to be expressed that doesn't meet with your values and is thus predjudicial.

Thank God for the non PC Asia.

I hope the PC rot doesn't spread from the West to here. And I don't mean TVF, it's already well embedded there.

Yeah right, being against prejudice is PC. The rabid right really are foaming today.

[JUDAS]

Some people will dance around but never actually come straight out and say they are against these guys raising this child because the are gay.

[Mudcrab]

So better not to exist at all than have no Mum. Sounds like something a right to lifer would say.

And right to lifers are not allowed an opinion?

Seems there is more bigotry amongst the homosexual posters in this thread than anyone else.

Standard form of defense in these threads history has shown......brook no argument...just pull the homophobic/bigot card and ignore all reasoned discussion.

If those doesn't work then threaten to put them on the ignore list.

If you can't see them then they don't exist.

See the irony in this?

[SoiBiker]

Which homosexual posters?

[Mudcrab]

So does anyone know how long the surrogate woman has to decide whether to file an appeal or not? Or how that works? Surely, this family can't be expected to have to wait in Thailand INDEFINITELY before that decision is made, right?

I wonder what Visa they have?

Multiple entry?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Mudcrab

[Bluespunk]

So better not to exist at all than have no Mum. Sounds like something a right to lifer would say.

And right to lifers are not allowed an opinion?

Seems there is more bigotry amongst the homosexual posters in this thread than anyone else.

Standard form of defense in these threads history has shown......brook no argument...just pull the homophobic/bigot card and ignore all reasoned discussion.

If those doesn't work then threaten to put them on the ignore list.

If you can't see them then they don't exist.

See the irony in this?

Certainly see the irony in your post.

[Mudcrab]

Which homosexual posters?

Oh dear...take off those silly glasses and actually read the posts. If it's not self-evident....on yer bike.