webfact Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Gay couple wins custody battle against Thai surrogate motherNATTASUDA ANUSONADISAI, Associated Press BANGKOK (AP) — A same-sex American-Spanish couple won a high-profile custody battle Tuesday against a surrogate mother in Thailand who gave birth to their child but then decided she wanted to keep the baby when she found out they were gay. Bangkok's Juvenile and Family Court ruled that the legal guardian of the 15-month-old child, named Carmen, is her American biological father, Gordon Lake, said Lake's lawyer Rachapol Sirikulchit. "The court has granted legal custody of Carmen Lake to Gordon Lake, my client, and (said) that my client is her only guardian," Rachapol said. Lake and his partner, Spaniard Manuel Santos, both 41, have been stuck in Thailand since launching their legal battle after Carmen was born in January 2015. Santos emerged from the court smiling and with tears in his eyes. "We won," he told reporters. "We are really happy. ... This nightmare is going to end soon." "After 15 months, Carmen will fly to Spain," where the couple lives, Santos said. Rachapol said the couple would not be able to take Carmen out of the country right away pending the possibility of an appeal by the surrogate mother, Patidta Kusolsang. She was not in court and her intentions could not immediately be learned. Lake and Santos celebrated their legal victory on the "Bringcarmenhome" Facebook page set up to support their custody fight. "There is no way to express with words what we are feeling!" they posted. "We are crying, our family is crying, our friends are crying, and we are sure all the Thai people who showed their love for us during this time are crying too." "Today is a huge day for love, for family and for truth. And it is also a big day for LGBT rights," said their posting, referring to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender rights. The case was seen as complicated by the fact that Thai law does not recognize same-sex marriages and also by a new law that bans commercial surrogacy, which took effect after Carmen's birth. Rachapol said the court's ruling was based on a transitory clause in the law allowing the intended parents of any baby born before the law took effect to request to be the legal parents. When Carmen was born, Patidta handed over the baby to Lake and Santos, who left the hospital with the infant. But they say Patidta then changed her mind and refused to sign the documents to allow Carmen to get a passport so they could leave Thailand. Lake, who is from New Jersey, is Carmen's biological father, while the egg came from an anonymous donor, not Patidta. Neither he nor Carmen were in court Tuesday. Lake and Santos were told Patidta had thought they were an "ordinary family and that she worried for Carmen's upbringing," according to a message Lake posted on a crowdfunding site that has raised $36,000 to help cover the costs of the trial and staying in Thailand. Lake has said he doesn't know why the surrogate says she didn't realize they were gay. He says he was clear about that from the start with their surrogacy agency, New Life, which has branches in several countries. The Bangkok-based New Life office has closed since commercial surrogacy was outlawed in Thailand in July 2015, following several high-profile scandals. There was a grace period provided for parents whose babies were already on the way. Carmen has lived since birth with the couple, who also have a toddler son, Alvaro, born to a surrogate mother in India with Santos the biological father. They said in their Facebook posting that the family will live in Valencia, Spain, but that they love Thailand and promised to come back often. "Carmen is half Thai and we are very very proud of that," they said. "Right now, we just want to go back to our normal lives and try to rebuild what we can, so that Alvaro and Carmen can have the wonderful lives that they were always meant to have." -- (c) Associated Press 2016-04-26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Gordon Lake and Manuel Santos ... CONGRATULATIONS. Perhaps it would be best if you don't visit Thailand again with YOUR children. The persistence you exhibited is fighting to keep YOUR baby has been very inspiring. Have a happy life with YOUR happy family. Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnniey Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skildpadden Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Congratulations. The dedication you have shown for winning the right to your child and to raise her accordingly is something many couples could learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaibah Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonmoon Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I hope they didnt have to pay anyone...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuang Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Gordon Lake and Manuel Santos ... CONGRATULATIONS. Perhaps it would be best if you don't visit Thailand again with YOUR children. The persistence you exhibited is fighting to keep YOUR baby has been very inspiring. Have a happy life with YOUR happy family. Next time adopt a baby and don't BUY one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnniey Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I hope they didnt have to pay anyone...... The only reason they got this kid was because they have money. So immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I wish them all the best. May the child bring them much happiness and be blessed with a good life. It appears the women who had the child had little actually in relationship to the child other than being the bearer of her. Lake is the biological father of Carmen, who is now 15 months old. The egg came from an anonymous donor, not the Thai surrogate, Patidta Kusolsang. Edited April 26, 2016 by lovelomsak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 No surprise! Well done to the two for sticking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Well, from the beginning, I wasn't optimistic for these parents ... but recently someone posted that the last court session before this decision was a strong indication of this great outcome. So maybe in the short term, not a surprise, but in longer context, considering how long it took and the chances to be worn down by that even financially, I think the win was against the odds. All the more SWEET for the parents, I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. Edited April 26, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaidam Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. the gay penguin route is probably not a good idea for your argument. There was 1 pair of homosexual penguins known to man, Roy and Sol in a NYC zoo. Zookeepers gave this pair an egg which they raised to be also homosexual before Roy decided he wasn't gay anymore, dumped poor Sol and the adopted kid and ran off with a female penguin. Can't see anything wrong there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawan Chan 7 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. Gay penguins can't have babies. My dog eats cow poo, does that mean it's ok for me to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. the gay penguin route is probably not a good idea for your argument. There was 1 pair of homosexual penguins known to man, Roy and Sol in a NYC zoo. Zookeepers gave this pair an egg which they raised to be also homosexual before Roy decided he wasn't gay anymore, dumped poor Sol and the adopted kid and ran off with a female penguin. Can't see anything wrong there? One in history? Dude, you need to try a lot harder with your noxious anti-gay propaganda. It's not good enough to diss gay humans, now it's animals. Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Gordon Lake and Manuel Santos ... CONGRATULATIONS. Perhaps it would be best if you don't visit Thailand again with YOUR children. The persistence you exhibited is fighting to keep YOUR baby has been very inspiring. Have a happy life with YOUR happy family. Next time adopt a baby and don't BUY one Not sure if you noticed, but one of the gentlemen is the biological father.. E.g. His sperm, the women involved is Not the biological mother... She did carry the baby to term, but other woman's egg I think the right out come in this case... It may have taken a while , but believe the Thai courts made the right decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim. Women, of course, lesbians or not, can naturally produce children with a very short visit from a male or turkey baster. No need for any male to be involved in parenting. Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim. But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......? You mean two males? Duh. Why ask such a stupid question. They can adopt when it is legal. In some nations they can legally hire surrogates. Many have children from previous relationships with women. Do they have wombs? Seriously, why ask that unless to BAIT? Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. the gay penguin route is probably not a good idea for your argument. There was 1 pair of homosexual penguins known to man, Roy and Sol in a NYC zoo. Zookeepers gave this pair an egg which they raised to be also homosexual before Roy decided he wasn't gay anymore, dumped poor Sol and the adopted kid and ran off with a female penguin. Can't see anything wrong there? wrong, just read please http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic Edited April 26, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) What is the world coming to? Next single men will be able to have babies! What is the problem? Do you know Penguins has homosexual behaviors, even necrophilia? The puritanism hid this for nearly one century because of the "bad influence" they could have on human beings... Probably God made a mistake, oh no it is not possible, so penguins are sinners and the Hell is full of sinners and Penguins... There is no rational arguments against gays people having babies. Gay penguins can't have babies.My dog eats cow poo, does that mean it's ok for me to do it? You probably never saw DIvine I presume about the poo... Your dog or at least some of them raise cats, and rabbits... and they are not seen as deviant by the others Edited April 26, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim. But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......? You mean two males? Duh. Why ask such a stupid question. They can adopt when it is legal. In some nations they can legally hire surrogates. Many have children from previous relationships with women. Do they have wombs? Seriously, why ask that unless to BAIT? Just answer my question.........yes or no......You know the answer but duck and dive... But just answer, can gay folk sire....? Forget about modern day medical inject this and that...Just say yes or no... No. I will not answer your IDIOTIC question assuming you mean two MALES because your hateful intention is so obvious. You know the answer. Everyone knows the answer. Everyone can also see your intention. Pure BAITING. My patience has run out with that. Welcome to my ignore list. Edited April 26, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim. But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......? You mean two males? Duh. Why ask such a stupid question. They can adopt when it is legal. In some nations they can legally hire surrogates. Many have children from previous relationships with women. Do they have wombs? Seriously, why ask that unless to BAIT? Just answer my question.........yes or no......You know the answer but duck and dive... But just answer, can gay folk sire....? Forget about modern day medical inject this and that...Just say yes or no... Just answer this question : how in hell the fact that gay couples have babies upset you? does this have an impact on your daily life? Is this the christian influence on your education? The answer to your bait is : the conception of babies is not raising them, and your biggotry just can't stand the fact that two men kiss in front of a baby or raise him because he may be "touched by the Devil" or some stupid thing like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesAbitbol Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Mainwhile in Antartica : http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic Penguins <deleted> their brain out, sin, and nobody there give a sh.t because it doesn't impact their daily life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Uh oh. The parents of the child, you know the two males that lack wombs, still need to wait to see if the Thai surrogate woman will APPEAL the decision, or not. They can't leave with their child BEFORE that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Far from it George... So you answer, can gay folk sire naturally....? Is that a joke? Of course they can.... just the same as any man... And so what if they could not anyway... lost of women can not have children... so they just adopt... or get the husband to use a surrogate same as these gay guys did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnniey Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 In these situations, does the kid have 2 dads or do they call one mum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I don't think dolphins do formal adoptions, either. Species have different methods of raising young ... and human societies have even more flexibility. There isn't one choice. The "traditional" nuclear family is one way and of course popular. There are others. Single parents. Multi-generational parenting. Same sex couple parenting. Another example, the way many Israelis used to be raised collectively on kibbutzim. But human gay folk cannot sire naturally can they......? You mean two males? Duh. Why ask such a stupid question. They can adopt when it is legal. In some nations they can legally hire surrogates. Many have children from previous relationships with women. Do they have wombs? Seriously, why ask that unless to BAIT? Just answer my question.........yes or no......You know the answer but duck and dive... But just answer, can gay folk sire....? Forget about modern day medical inject this and that...Just say yes or no... Perhaps not, but a gay male can have a baby with a women and sue for custody and win...To some extent that is more the issue than the sexuality of the the couple in question The man suing for custody is the biological father.. Period.. He has rights ... Regardless of who he is sleeping. With The women in this case was not even the biological mother... So to me .. This is a simple case, in which discussion of sexuality is really not even pertinent... Change things up a bit... A Heterosexual couple uses the mans sperm and a donor egg to impregnate a surrogate ... After baby born, the surrogate tries to back out and keep the baby... Is that ok? I say no... And the courts shout give custody to the couple Same thing here... The father gets custody To me it's not a gay right issue.. Other than to say that a gay father should have the same rights as a non gay father Edited April 26, 2016 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Grumpy Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Poor kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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