Immigration Interview with minors

[bigmacdaddybone]

Given the age of the young girl in question, I would want to make sure that the IMM Officers are not questioning the ex-wife/Mother's willingness to sign any custody-type document while out of the country as a sign that the Mother doesn't really care what happens to the young girl and has emotionally abandoned her. Seems like this this a common enough occurrence.

the marriage did not work out but we both love our child ......and are working together to make sure the child has a happy childhood .....and preparing all the documents necessary to accomplish this with immigration. per the instructions received. will this type of document be what is needed?.....basically stating if either of us is out of Thailand the other parent has full custody?

Who said anything about a girl?

[JLCrab]

Given the age of the young girl in question, I would want to make sure that the IMM Officers are not questioning the ex-wife/Mother's willingness to sign any custody-type document while out of the country as a sign that the Mother doesn't really care what happens to the young girl and has emotionally abandoned her. Seems like this this a common enough occurrence.

the marriage did not work out but we both love our child ......and are working together to make sure the child has a happy childhood .....and preparing all the documents necessary to accomplish this with immigration. per the instructions received. will this type of document be what is needed?.....basically stating if either of us is out of Thailand the other parent has full custody?

Who said anything about a girl?

My mistake: 'child'. However, documents aside, you have told the IMM folks that the Mother is not willing to travel to Thailand even once a year to see her child which may be giving them cause for concern.

[BritTim]

i want to have a cool heart ///// its really frustrating ......when you ask how to avoid problems .....and you follow the instructions ....in my case getting a letter of consent drawn up ....and then when you present it .....to have that thrown back at you and told that it will not be accepted ..... why tell me to make the document ? .... or tell me what's wrong with it ....... how do you handle that here?

I think you already know why they are throwing up obstacle after obstacle. I doubt there are any documents that will change the situation. Do you know any of the influential local politicians (especially whoever was the most recent MP)? In some cases, they may be willing to help. Be very deferential in approaching them.

[bigmacdaddybone]

Given the age of the young girl in question, I would want to make sure that the IMM Officers are not questioning the ex-wife/Mother's willingness to sign any custody-type document while out of the country as a sign that the Mother doesn't really care what happens to the young girl and has emotionally abandoned her. Seems like this this a common enough occurrence.

the marriage did not work out but we both love our child ......and are working together to make sure the child has a happy childhood .....and preparing all the documents necessary to accomplish this with immigration. per the instructions received. will this type of document be what is needed?.....basically stating if either of us is out of Thailand the other parent has full custody?

Who said anything about a girl?

My mistake: 'child'. However, documents aside, you have told the IMM folks that the Mother is not willing to travel to Thailand even once a year to see her child which may be giving them cause for concern.

the officer interviewed the mother directly and the mother told told her sometimes she will not be in Thailand when the visa renewal is up and told the officer she has already given consent for me to handle anything regarding any national authority for the benefit of the child .....that is when i was told to draw up the consent form for the immigration office specifically .....so to answer you she told them that herself

[JLCrab]

I am just trying to figure out what may be the mind set of the IMM officers other than to extract a bribe from you.

BTW when you asked who said anything about a girl? You did: " ... its just that i'm here divorced now & i am the sole provider for her welfare" so I assumed that 'her' was referring to a girl.

[bigmacdaddybone]

i want to have a cool heart ///// its really frustrating ......when you ask how to avoid problems .....and you follow the instructions ....in my case getting a letter of consent drawn up ....and then when you present it .....to have that thrown back at you and told that it will not be accepted ..... why tell me to make the document ? .... or tell me what's wrong with it ....... how do you handle that here?

I think you already know why they are throwing up obstacle after obstacle. I doubt there are any documents that will change the situation. Do you know any of the influential local politicians (especially whoever was the most recent MP)? In some cases, they may be willing to help. Be very deferential in approaching them.

what is an MP?

[bigmacdaddybone]

I am just trying to figure out what may be the mind set of the IMM officers other than to extract a bribe from you.

BTW when you asked who said anything about a girl? You did: " ... its just that i'm here divorced now & i am the sole provider for her welfare" so I assumed that 'her' was referring to a girl.

my bad .....i noticed that too in an earlier post my apology... was trying to maintain anonymity throughout but i blew it on that post..... in regards to your comment regarding a bribe .....i have been advised not to make statements like that ...... anymore ...... but you may be onto the real problem here

[BritTim]

what is an MP?

Member of Parliament. In Thai, they are colloquially referred to as "saw saw".

[bigmacdaddybone]

what is an MP?

Member of Parliament. In Thai, they are colloquially referred to as "saw saw".

i have an association with one of the Royal Family

[JLCrab]

And what Immigration might tell such higher echelon folks: There is a lot about this case that is consistent with other cases where there has been child abuse especially a reluctance to have a child interviewed out of the presence and possible intimidation of a parent and we are just doing our best to make sure such is not the case here.

[BritTim]

i have an association with one of the Royal Family

I mix with minor royals sometimes when I play bridge, but am unsure how they would react to someone trying to pull them into a local dispute. My gut instinct is that they would not regard it as any of their concern. (Very important: do not invoke his/her name under any circumstances. If he/she wants to help, leave him/her to do so. Claiming royal support can get you into serious hot water.) Local politicians are conscious of their popularity. If they know assisting people in their area will become known, and enhance the way they are perceived, they can help. It is not probable in this case, but could be your best avenue if you are not willing to cave in.

Note that the amount of money the official is looking for is probably not much, likely less than your lawyer is going to cost you. That said, I would find it difficult to make myself pay it. It really sticks in your craw doesn't it?

[bigmacdaddybone]

i have an association with one of the Royal Family

I mix with minor royals sometimes when I play bridge, but am unsure how they would react to someone trying to pull them into a local dispute. My gut instinct is that they would not regard it as any of their concern. (Very important: do not invoke his/her name under any circumstances. If he/she wants to help, leave him/her to do so. Claiming royal support can get you into serious hot water.) Local politicians are conscious of their popularity. If they know assisting people in their area will become known, and enhance the way they are perceived, they can help. It is not probable in this case, but could be your best avenue if you are not willing to cave in.

Note that the amount of money the official is looking for is probably not much, likely less than your lawyer is going to cost you. That said, I would find it difficult to make myself pay it. It really sticks in your craw doesn't it?

It does bring out the flame in my soul ........ when you see how many orphanages there are in the major cities here .....and i am sincerely not abandoning my child & neither is the mother ......we just want to know how to deal with this agency honestly........ i can see why some of the children in those places may have lost parents because of the frustrations the parents face trying to be here to provide for them when confronted with all the hoops u have to jump through to take care of them.....just sayin..... our lawyer doesn't like this either ...& is not charging us to intervene

[bigmacdaddybone]

And what Immigration might tell such higher echelon folks: There is a lot about this case that is consistent with other cases where there has been child abuse especially a reluctance to have a child interviewed out of the presence and possible intimidation of a parent and we are just doing our best to make sure such is not the case here.

Child abuse ....... there is no fear of that accusation .....and i already stated any adult can be present....either parent or member of the family of either side .....or even a law guardian if they have them here ............ as long as the conversation is witnessed..... i have no problem with my child being spoken to by any government official..... the problem i have is if there is an ulterior motive by the interviewing official ....motives stated by other posts in this forum...... do you think Child abuse can be caused when a parent is not allowed to care for their child?

that's why i'm working so hard to get this resolved so i can be here to protect my child

[JLCrab]

Either these IMMigration folks are making some big to-do just to get a few thousand baht out of you or there something about this whole affair that has set them off. Yours to figure out. Good luck.

[bigmacdaddybone]

I am just trying to figure out what may be the mind set of the IMM officers other than to extract a bribe from you.

BTW when you asked who said anything about a girl? You did: " ... its just that i'm here divorced now & i am the sole provider for her welfare" so I assumed that 'her' was referring to a girl.

my bad .....i noticed that too in an earlier post my apology... was trying to maintain anonymity throughout but i blew it on that post..... in regards to your comment regarding a bribe .....i have been advised not to make statements like that ...... anymore ...... but you may be onto the real problem here

Either these IMMigration folks are making some big to-do just to get a few thousand baht out of you or there something about this whole affairr that has set them off. Yours to figure out. Good luck.

i think A

[SOTIRIOS]

,,,from experience.....if you challenge them in any way.....you are 'screwed'....

...and they will do as they please....

...the other party might have slandered you to hell and back....and you will never know it...

..many Thai women...in family cases....fall back on 'the race card'....and on 'stereotyping' of foreigners...

..and it is all bad...

[bigmacdaddybone]

,,,from experience.....if you challenge them in any way.....you are 'screwed'....

...and they will do as they please....

...the other party might have slandered you to hell and back....and you will never know it...

..many Thai women...in family cases....fall back on 'the race card'....and on 'stereotyping' of foreigners...

..and it is all bad...

you may be right .....but how is it a challenge when you are only following the instructions they give you ? and you have complied with every requirement they requested? just sayin'

[laolover88]

You have to get to the bottom of what their "problem" is. And as everyone says it is a. Essential to be deferential and polite and not confrontational and b.Try and get the explanation in Thai to a Thai. Also you say you both love the child , so why does she not just come back for a week and sort it out, if they want her present? What has she to gain from causing you and the child this difficulty?. Air ticket from anywhere cheaper than a lawyer.

[bigmacdaddybone]

You have to get to the bottom of what their "problem" is. And as everyone says it is a. Essential to be deferential and polite and not confrontational and b.Try and get the explanation in Thai to a Thai. Also you say you both love the child , so why does she not just come back for a week and sort it out, if they want her present? What has she to gain from causing you and the child this difficulty?. Air ticket from anywhere cheaper than a lawyer.

i cant control her, the ex wife's, actions ....& if she is out of the country that's what it is .......so it may be inexpensive to travel from yours or my perspective but maybe not from hers. & what if she just doesn't want to return here ........returning to my original dilemma... what to do with immigration in the absence of the other parent .....& i do appreciate your concern & suggestions this scenario has been a reality already and the reason my visa was issued in the 1st place....... i was never confrontational .......... and i really have to give the ex credit she has been extremely cooperative trying to get this sorted out before she leaves

[laolover88]

But you are saying it is not sorted. Hence question! You say you cannot control her. Sounds like she is comtrolling both you and the child! If immigration cannot "adjust their attitude" I think you may have to swallow your pride and take the advice of: Leave and Come back, regardless of your current visa.

[bigmacdaddybone]

But you are saying it is not sorted. Hence question! You say you cannot control her. Sounds like she is comtrolling both you and the child! If immigration cannot "adjust their attitude" I think you may have to swallow your pride and take the advice of: Leave and Come back, regardless of your current visa.

Hopefully it won't have to get to that point ..........but i'm not being proud here or arrogant ....... just tell us what to do that's a simple enough request .....& if you issued the visa before without her presence ...and we were married then.........what is different now .. .with a legal divorce.... if she is not present again .....an explanation would be sufficient ....... as you suggested i will use a Thai intermediary to find out what the problem is & try & resolve it that way we have time ..... i just think it's a terrible thing to take a child from someone legally or otherwise ........ i know i have the resources & the grounds to get full custody legally .... just don't want to put my child through that or go through that courtroom drama

[BritTim]

Does your lawyer agree with my gut feel that immigration are looking for a payoff? If so, I am far from convinced that your ex-wife investing several days and 50,000 baht to visit immigration would make a big difference. They could give you an under consideration stamp and put you straight back to square one as soon as she leaves. In reality, the advice from everyone to avoid being confrontational is good advice. The trouble is that, if they have decided you should pay, the only way to be non confrontational is to pay up.

There are many good and decent immigration officials. If you, indeed, have run into a rogue office, you have my greatest sympathy. My advice is to pay up. The potential consequences of not doing so are too serious. It is a matter of do as I say not as I do, though, because I am not sure I could stomach the idea of letting them get away with it myself.

[JLCrab]

My gut feeling is, if they wanted a payoff, they would say X thousand baht and you get your one-year extension right now.

[laolover88]

Something very wrong here and I guess we have no means of knowing what it is. What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be? They can't deport a Thai child. Has a "contribution" actually been requested? I can't really see why your ex wife and her family cannot sort this out unless they have some reason not to help. Noone wants to pry into your private life but I think it would help everyone who is trying to give advice and help to know: which Immigration Office, Where you got the previous extensions, Your housing and other domestic circumstances, Where the child goes to School, Where your ex wife actually is and Why she does not come back to help the child, What exactly Immigration want you to do. This started with the perfectly reasonable question about whether they could Interview the child. Well it seems reasonable to want to know Why? and What they want to ask, whether you are present or not and what bearing that has on your visa status.

You say you were born here, which does not confer Thai Nationality unless on of you parents were Thai. You have never said if your ex wife is Thai. You also say that Immigration wants your ex wife to be present to consent to your custody. Does not seem that complicated unless there are things we don't know

[bigmacdaddybone]

That's way too personal at this time laolover & i know you are sincerely trying to help ...............be assured everyone's nationality & presence here in Thailand is according to law ......let me start with finding out what the exact problem is ..as you suggested as well...& once that is identified .....we all can be better equipped to hep find a solution .........but what you said in the 1st seven sentences of your most recent post are the very questions and the reason i have when i ask them to tell me what i have to do to avoid all those potential scenarios ..... and i can proudly say even after a divorce my ex wife & in laws have been completely cooperative & supportive of me throughout this whole process .....there isnt any animosity are grudges ........& i'm glad i can say that.

[laolover88]

Well. I have had "dealings" with Immigration in BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Nakhon Phanom and Hat Yai for the best part of 30 years. Have never encountered anything like your experience. Most officers helpful and polite. In CM they were stressed out by the workload , the cramped facilities and armies of Burmese workers. Also Laos in NP. I don't believe anyone in those offices was ever looking for tea money. I have had bad reports about some unusual requests for extra information, but not brown envelopes, from Khon Khaen. I can only conclude that either some part of your paperwork is unacceptable or you have "rubbed" someone up the wrong way. Hope it works out for you.

[JLCrab]

Maybe as mentioned by Kuhn Maestro on page 1 #23, and as the OP says "i am the sole provider for her welfare ..." they are bothered that the joint custody doesn't seem very joint whether the OP is willing to go for sole custody or not.

[ubonjoe]

i have shown them our divorce agreement that states joint custody ....it also states the mother now and forever consents to the father to have full authority to handle any and all matters for the Childs benefit with any & all government agencies ........... they just have to tell me what they want ...... we all agree ....i have the visa already i'm just trying to prepare for my next renewal ........with being asked to produce things that are impossible (having my ex wife come to the immigration office if she is not in the country) & the new penalties for overstay being more stringent i don't want to wait till next year to prepare my documents if its not clear what is required .........and get caught in a corner of overstay or else .....even if the advice was full custody tell me ......something sensible ..... not the impossible

Have you had the divorcee agreement translated to Thai and had it certified by the MFA? If not that could be part of the problem. An immigration officer that was able to read English might have problems with understanding it.

[ubonjoe]

Maybe as mentioned by Kuhn Maestro on page 1 #23, and as the OP says "i am the sole provider for her welfare ..." they are bothered that the joint custody doesn't seem very joint whether the OP is willing to go for sole custody or not.

Joint custody can be subject to interpretation as to what it means. Joint custody without a formal agreement on visitation rights would mean it can be determined between the parties involved.

[JLCrab]

Fine -- and maybe the IMM office is saying, since it is joint custody, they want the mother to appear in person for the extension of stay being requested on behalf of the father, and then they at IMM get an explanation as to why, even though she maintains custody, she is not able to appear during a 30-45 day window on behalf of the minor for whom she holds some form of custody.