Former London Mayor suspended from party

[webfact]

Former London Mayor suspended from party
By Catherine Hardy | With REUTERS



LONDON: -- UK Labour Party veteran Ken Livingstone has been suspended by the party.

The former Mayor of London has been accused of being a Nazi apologist over comments he made while defending an MP at the centre of an anti-semitism row.

He is being investigated for damaging the party’s reputation.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-04-29

[johna]

Here is the full interview with Ken, this is nothing more than a smear campaign against anyone who criticizes Israel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-anti-semitism-row-full-transcript-of-ken-livingstones-interviews-a7005311.html

[wabothai]

Another scary thing.

[Steely Dan]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

[pedro01]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

Right wing lefties - whatever next?

[RuamRudy]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

[ourmanflint]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

computer fail. sorry please see below

Edited April 29, 2016 by ourmanflint

[ourmanflint]

Complete travesty! Now repeating historical facts is regarded as anti-semitism by the UK Labour Party

[Thorgal]

Complete travesty! Now repeating historical facts is regarded as anti-semitism by the UK Labour Party

The suspension request came from CIF (Conservative Israeli Friends) or BICOM (Britain Israeli Communications and Research Centre) or any other UK Israeli franchise lobby.

UK Labour Party just did what was requested under pressure...

[dunroaming]

Politics are pretty boring affairs generally so it is good that there are people out there to rock the boat. The labour party is split right down the middle at the moment with the leader being from the far left giving the dinosaurs like dearest Ken a voice where until the Corbyn win he was kept on the shelf marked "has-beens". Livingstone has always been known as Red Ken for obvious reasons and always courted controversy. I think it is bit of a stretch calling the labour party anti-sematic but it is true to say that the Corbynites are pro-Palestinian and by definition anti-Israeli.

The media will all queue up to get a response from Ken because he will be controversial and that spices up the news.

A little like the bloodlust in the republican party in the US over Trump, the main stream Labour party politicians are trying their hardest to get rid of Corbyn and his far left ideology. This will happen, as with Trump in America, because Corbyn and his political positioning makes him totally un-electable.

[Steely Dan]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

Livingstone's comments were calculated too cause offense. This coming from a man who once compared a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard. Plausible deniability is only plausible in isolation, not when many people linked to the Labour Party have made comments verging on or outright antisemitic.

Jeremy Corbyn (he who referred to Hamas leaders as his 'friends' and has an unfortunate habit of being photographed standing in front of Hezbollah flags) can hardly take a stand when he has similar form himself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/labours-anti-semitism-problem-stems-from-its-grassroots/

[Baerboxer]

Complete travesty! Now repeating historical facts is regarded as anti-semitism by the UK Labour Party

Livingstone is right, and Corbyn knows it. There is a strong pro Israel lobby that plays the anti-semitism / Nazi card anytime anyone dares to criticize anything Israel does.

Livingstone referred to Hitler being a Zionist at one time. I do believe that Nazi Germany, in their early years, supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. Their idea was that German Jews would all want to go and live there voluntarily, or maybe with a little shove. I don't think the Nazis had this idea for humanitarian reason and anyone who does is daft. Things moved on quickly from that and other disgusting solutions were employed, which history knows too well.

Why Livingstone chose to reference Hitler is anybodies guess. But that, no matter what the context or factually correct would immediately bring on the anti-semitism brigade. He should have just made the point with examples of this pro Israel lobbying.

Not all Jews are Israeli and not all support everything Israel does. Ken is anit Israel not anti Jews. And that is his right in a free democracy.

Interesting point - there has been and are a considerable number of Jewish MP's, Ministers, Chancellors etc.A considerable number choose, have chosen, to change their names to more Anglo-Saxon sounding ones. AFAIK they are the only group of minority immigrants who do this on such a scale. Why is that?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

Livingstone's comments were calculated too cause offense. This coming from a man who once compared a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard. Plausible deniability is only plausible in isolation, not when many people linked to the Labour Party have made comments verging on or outright antisemitic.

Jeremy Corbyn (he who referred to Hamas leaders as his 'friends' and has an unfortunate habit of being photographed standing in front of Hezbollah flags) can hardly take a stand when he has similar form himself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/labours-anti-semitism-problem-stems-from-its-grassroots/

I'm not anti semitic, nor do I support Corbyn or Livingstone.

But labeling anyone who opposes Israel, some of its actions and some of its in-actions as being anti semitc in an effort to smear them and obscure their point of view is wrong and not acceptable in a free democracy.

It used to be "fashionable" for immigrants from the Indian sub-continent to shout 'racial prejudice" if they had any grievance what so ever, weren't treated favorably or did something wrong. Now its the liberals shouting "fascist and nazi" every time someone won't do as they say; or Jewish groups shouting "anti semetism" if anyone speaks against them; or crooked politicians shouting "it's politically motivated" when they get caught committing crimes.

The Labor Party is not there specifically to represent Israeli interests, Palestinian interests, or any other non British country. It is secular.

[RuamRudy]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

Livingstone's comments were calculated too cause offense. This coming from a man who once compared a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard. Plausible deniability is only plausible in isolation, not when many people linked to the Labour Party have made comments verging on or outright antisemitic.

Jeremy Corbyn (he who referred to Hamas leaders as his 'friends' and has an unfortunate habit of being photographed standing in front of Hezbollah flags) can hardly take a stand when he has similar form himself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/labours-anti-semitism-problem-stems-from-its-grassroots/

Calculated to cause offence, or calculated to provoke debate? Certainly a wider number people will be becoming more aware of the tediously predictable tactic whereby any individual who dares to criticise Israel runs the risk of being labelled anti semitic.

[Yahooka]

"Damaging the party`s reputation".................Didn`t he do that long time ago ? And with Corbyn and Naz Shah,the Labour party nowadays is a real freak show on an downward spiral !!

[Morch]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

Livingstone's comments were calculated too cause offense. This coming from a man who once compared a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard. Plausible deniability is only plausible in isolation, not when many people linked to the Labour Party have made comments verging on or outright antisemitic.

Jeremy Corbyn (he who referred to Hamas leaders as his 'friends' and has an unfortunate habit of being photographed standing in front of Hezbollah flags) can hardly take a stand when he has similar form himself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/labours-anti-semitism-problem-stems-from-its-grassroots/

I'm not anti semitic, nor do I support Corbyn or Livingstone.

But labeling anyone who opposes Israel, some of its actions and some of its in-actions as being anti semitc in an effort to smear them and obscure their point of view is wrong and not acceptable in a free democracy.

It used to be "fashionable" for immigrants from the Indian sub-continent to shout 'racial prejudice" if they had any grievance what so ever, weren't treated favorably or did something wrong. Now its the liberals shouting "fascist and nazi" every time someone won't do as they say; or Jewish groups shouting "anti semetism" if anyone speaks against them; or crooked politicians shouting "it's politically motivated" when they get caught committing crimes.

The Labor Party is not there specifically to represent Israeli interests, Palestinian interests, or any other non British country. It is secular.

Seem to have forgotten them groups shouting "Islamophobia".

[Morch]

The suspension request came from CIF (Conservative Israeli Friends) or BICOM (Britain Israeli Communications and Research Centre) or any other UK Israeli franchise lobby.

UK Labour Party just did what was requested under pressure...

Yep, Corbyn is well known for being accommodating with all things Israeli.

[Thorgal]

The suspension request came from CIF (Conservative Israeli Friends) or BICOM (Britain Israeli Communications and Research Centre) or any other UK Israeli franchise lobby.

UK Labour Party just did what was requested under pressure...

Yep, Corbyn is well known for being accommodating with all things Israeli.

As the controversial UK-MP Kaminski, who spoke out allegedly 'anti-semitic' quotes, but wasn't suspended or fired, because he was a member of the Conservative Israeli Friends lobby.

Apparently there's a system in the system.

[Morch]

The suspension request came from CIF (Conservative Israeli Friends) or BICOM (Britain Israeli Communications and Research Centre) or any other UK Israeli franchise lobby.

UK Labour Party just did what was requested under pressure...

Yep, Corbyn is well known for being accommodating with all things Israeli.

As the controversial UK-MP Kaminski, who spoke out allegedly 'anti-semitic' quotes, but wasn't suspended or fired, because he was a member of the Conservative Israeli Friends lobby.

Apparently there's a system in the system.

As far as I am aware, Kaminski is a Polish politician. This topic is about the UK.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Morch

[Jingthing]

Livingstone debunked:

So, there was a Zionist arrangement of sorts with Hitler's Germany - but to conclude that Hitler therefore "supported Zionism" is not only historically inaccurate, it is historically illiterate. But then, this particular storm in a teacup was never really about history.

http://historian-at-large.blogspot.co.il/2016/04/was-hitler-zionist.html

[Steely Dan]

What with Naz Shah the MP for Bradford East suspended for advocating ethnic cleansing of Israel's entire Jewish population it is plain to see there is an endemic sickness with the British Labour Party, which runs from the top to the grass roots.

The comments of Naz Shah were wholly unacceptable and she is, quite rightly, suspended for them. Whether she is fit to be an MP is a fair question.

Livingston, however, did not, in the interview I watched, offer commentary or analysis but merely pointed to fact of history. John Mann was unable to challenge him on any particular point, but rather came across as the pub bully who had too many pints and not enough reasoning to back up his false outrage.

Livingstone's comments were calculated too cause offense. This coming from a man who once compared a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard. Plausible deniability is only plausible in isolation, not when many people linked to the Labour Party have made comments verging on or outright antisemitic.

Jeremy Corbyn (he who referred to Hamas leaders as his 'friends' and has an unfortunate habit of being photographed standing in front of Hezbollah flags) can hardly take a stand when he has similar form himself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/labours-anti-semitism-problem-stems-from-its-grassroots/

I'm not anti semitic, nor do I support Corbyn or Livingstone.

But labeling anyone who opposes Israel, some of its actions and some of its in-actions as being anti semitc in an effort to smear them and obscure their point of view is wrong and not acceptable in a free democracy.

It used to be "fashionable" for immigrants from the Indian sub-continent to shout 'racial prejudice" if they had any grievance what so ever, weren't treated favorably or did something wrong. Now its the liberals shouting "fascist and nazi" every time someone won't do as they say; or Jewish groups shouting "anti semetism" if anyone speaks against them; or crooked politicians shouting "it's politically motivated" when they get caught committing crimes.

The Labor Party is not there specifically to represent Israeli interests, Palestinian interests, or any other non British country. It is secular.

Ah, the 'I'm not antisemitic, but anyone who opposes Israel' formulation.

For a start Israel didn't exist when Hitler was alive so Ken Livingstone can hardly hide behind this line of thought. As for when Jews are permitted to shout antisemitism without being put in the catch 22 position of being accused of smear campaigns: I would ask just how high the bar needs to be set. What about the ethnic cleansing of the entire Jewish nation, or Hitler sympathized with Zionists? Or what about the 'Jews control the press' trope used recently by another Labour Party member whose name escapes me.

I would suggest the bar is set far higher for Jews than it is for Muslims, who the left reflexively covers for however trivial the complaint. To correct one of your statements it is not the liberal left who shout antisemitism to silence debate, they are too busy shouting Islamophobia. This comes to the very heart of the matter, there is a long standing alliance between the left and Islamists which instigates much of the current antisemitism. Naz Shah was representing the views of much of her Bradford East constituency as her predecessor George Galloway did. Richard Littlejohn makes a good point here, namely that if Ken Livingstone had been an MP at the time of the last Labour leadership contest it is he and not Jeremy Corbyn who would likely be leader.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3564672/The-fascists-poisoned-heart-Labour-RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Jew-baiting-lunatic-fringe-charge-Corbyn-s-party.html

[SheungWan]

Not surprising that the usual suspects on this forum have chimed in as cheerleaders for the nasty Ken Livingstone and his new new friend George Galloway. About time the Labour Party did something about loser Ken trying like Gorgeous George to carve out a similar niche for himself in his political dotage.

Edited April 30, 2016 by SheungWan

[RuamRudy]

Not surprising that the usual suspects on this forum have chimed in as cheerleaders for the nasty Ken Livingstone and his new new friend George Galloway. About time the Labour Party did something about loser Ken trying like Gorgeous George to carve out a similar niche for himself in his political dotage.

You are slinging a lot of mud there, but not one iota of substance. Usual suspects, you say? Try looking in the mirror more often.

[dexterm]

From Ken Livingstone's interview..

“As I’ve said, I’ve never heard anybody say anything anti-Semitic, but there’s been a very well-orchestrated campaign by the Israel lobby to smear anybody who criticises Israeli policy as antisemitic. I had to put up with 35 years of this."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-anti-semitism-row-full-transcript-of-ken-livingstones-interviews-a7005311.html

Sounds like the well-orchestrated campaign of the Israeli apologists on this forum. Throw enough mud and you hope some of it will stick, or at least obfuscate the issue being discussed.

[Thorgal]

Not surprising that the usual suspects on this forum have chimed in as cheerleaders for the nasty Ken Livingstone and his new new friend George Galloway. About time the Labour Party did something about loser Ken trying like Gorgeous George to carve out a similar niche for himself in his political dotage.

Was requested to Livingstone if he should apologise to the Jewish community for the hurt and offense he's caused.

His answer :

"How can I have hurt and offended the Jewish community when the Prime Minister of Israel (has) said exactly the same thing (as I said.) If the Prime Minister of Israel can say, two days before, exactly what I said, it can't mean that I'm antisemitic - and he's certainly not antisemitic."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/30/16-times-ken-livingstone-refused-to-apologise-for-hitler-comment/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/

The cheerleaders must have missed that usual suspect too...

Edited April 30, 2016 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

Some clarification.

Please read the entire article, and after doing so -- excepting those regrettably infected with Israel demonization/Jew hatred mental illness who never met an Israel demonizing or Jew hating statement they didn't like -- then HONESTLY say there wasn't a serious problem with the statements of both Livingstone and Shah.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/04/29/jeremy_corbyn_s_labor_party_anti_semitism_scandal_explained.html

OK, seriously this time: What’s wrong with what he said? Isn’t that just, like, historical fact?

Uh, no. Saying that Hitler only went into an insane anti-Semitic fury after 1932 ignoresMein Kampf, and the Beer Hall Putsch, and basically many years spent espousing rabid anti-Semitism. In 1925’s Mein Kampf, in fact, Hitler wrote of his genocidal desires.

Also, Livingstone’s statement that Hitler was “supporting Zionism,” which Livingstone has defended as merely citing “facts,” is very factually wrong. According to an article Yale history professor Timothy Snyder wrote for the BBC, “[Hitler believed] that Zionism was one of many deliberately deceptive labels that Jews placed upon what he believed to be their endless striving for global power and the extermination of the human species.” So, nope, he was not a supporter of Zionism.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Jingthing

[RabC]

for all I loathe red Ken at least he will stand up to the pervasive pro Israel lobby.

[Koosdedooes]

for all I loathe red Ken at least he will stand up to the pervasive pro Israel lobby.

Pro zionists, muslims...same same start howling and playing the professional victims when they cant get their own way

[rgs2001uk]

for all I loathe red Ken at least he will stand up to the pervasive pro Israel lobby.

I NEVER thought I would ever find myself agreeing with anything Red Ken said, just goes to prove how wrong I was.

The history revisionsts can rewrite history all they want, they cant rewrite the truth.

Thankfully in Thailand I can avail myself of a multitude of History channels that dont spread the same propoganda.

[Jingthing]

for all I loathe red Ken at least he will stand up to the pervasive pro Israel lobby.

So you agree that Naz Shah's inflammatory proposal to relocate Israel to the United States is actually defensible?

Well, I find it hateful and atrocious.

Sure, it's something a nasty obsessive Israel demonizing troll would post on the comments section on the internet.

But it gets a little different when you're dealing with public officials, don't you think?

Edited April 30, 2016 by Jingthing