Why you shouldn't fear violence in Thailand

[NoshowJones]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run!

You will not need to run unless the Thai guy has other mates with him or nearby.

..

I don't really think that a simplistic single-issue view of a hypothetical incident is helpful or actually reflects the whole reality of the situation in Thailand at present.

Just saying it as I see it.

[phoenixdoglover]

The argument of this article goes something like this: although I have witnessed much violence, it has not happened to me, therefore you should not be worried.

The Thai assimilation is complete.

Your understanding of the article is miles off, his argument is that what happens here can happen anywhere and the best way to avoid problems anywhere is to be careful with what you say and do.

That would be an argument you would accept only if you have not lived in or visited less violent places. Thailand is not the worst, but special care is required.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 Eye using Tapatalk

[Somebodee]

Thai roads are arguably the most dangerous on the planet for two wheeled vehicles, and yet I "feel" far safer on a bicycle here than in Australia.

In Thailand it's the stupid and thoughtless acts that will kill you on the road (bicycle viewpoint). In Australia it is deliberate, angry and malevolent action by drivers.

I have found my experience to be exactly the same. Any near misses or close calls in LOS are almost from careless/ignorant or unskilled driving. But back in OZ it's usually deliberate from someone filled with hatred and anger.

I too always felt safer on two wheels bicycle or scooter. Don't know why really, with the road toll in LOS being this high.

[SoiBiker]

Funny thread. It's entertaining to see the chicken littles of Thaivisa queue up to defend their paranoid vision of Thailand as a land of savages.

[bbbbooboo]

This doesn't make sense as we are treated to a daily helping of violence from TV

[Thunderbirds20]

I have lived in Thailand for almost 11 years. When I first came here, I was pleased with how safe I felt out at night alone, but that is no longer the case.

I see or hear of foreign elderly men being beaten by a gang of young thug Thais every day now. I was held up once by two Thai guys, one with a homemade gun and the other with a knife. They made the mistake of taking their eyes off me and looking at each other. I kicked when in the family jewels and punched the other in the nose, then ran like hell. I have also had my necklace snatched and things stolen from my room, nit to mention being shortchanged or over charged in many places.

Elderly foreign men, alone at night, especially if they are drunk, are a prime target for these cowardly Thai guys that use weapons and only fight in gangs. They are never alone. So, ... you do need to worry about violence being perpetrated upon you in Thailand. Try arguing about a bill in a bar and see what happens.

[SoiBiker]

I suppose one could add the caveat "...unless you habitually hang out in places known for criminal activity".

Quite why anyone would need that pointing out to them escapes me, though. Would you expect to be safe if you deliberately spent all your time in the most dubious areas of your home country?

[DM07]

Great- so safety in a country is now down to two factors:

a) I never had any problem, therefore the whole country is safe!

b ) You will never have a problem, if you stay away from alcohol, nightlife spots and interaction!

Maybe I am not getting something, but the safety of a country should not be measured in the factor of "safeness" when you stay home and lock the door.

[AlphaSoiDog]

This doesn't make sense as we are treated to a daily helping of violence from TV

True, but how much confirmation bias is there on this site? How does media reporting here compare with other countries?

eg: I have to keep remembering that Thailand has more than three times the population of Oz, so of course more things happen here. And the media here seems to write about many things that would not get a mention in Oz. So my confirmation bias tells me that it is really bad here, but when I analyse that it turns out I don't have any facts to base it on.

What I do know is that I get treated well by the majority here, and I don't in Oz. I "feel" safer riding here, I won't ride in Oz any more. If I look at a woman here, especially a younger one, and smile at her she is likely to smile back (yes she might just be nervous, but it's still polite). In Oz I am likely to get sneered at and treated as a pervert. Here I can smile and even talk to a child without being dragged off by the police as a suspected pedophile (I can even look after a relatives child without passing a course and police check). And I've had cranky looking groups of young men in dark lanes get friendly just with a few Thai words of greeting. I wouldn't even attempt that in Oz!!!

Is it more dangerous here. I've no idea, but it's still a better life for me.

Edited caveats: I don't drink or go to bars. I live in Chiangmai not Pattaya. And I am usually at home having a nice time during the drunken hours...

[elgordo38]

I have always found trouble here to be avoidable and never have I witnessed anything which was unprovoked. If you provoke someone and then things go south, it is your fault and you should have known better.

Yes - it was horrible how that British family provoked the thugs by simply existing ...

Only Naive Fools would believe such tripe propaganda ...

Yes what happened to the British family was terrible but number one I would not insert myself in a shoulder to shoulder inebriated crowd of drunks. I myself would not have been drinking which can bring out the worst in people. I guess I am just old enough to know better.

[ttthailand]

Thailand 21 years. Problems with Thais zero. Problems with farangs, I lost count. Just saying ......

[dageurreotype]

"Mostly this street-level violent crime is between two or more Thai nationals, and usually occurs after hours. The combatants have often had more than their fair share of alcohol or drugs or combinations thereof. Somebody has normally lost face, be it through matters of the heart or the wallet".

Exactly.

Not at all 'exactly'. I'd had no fear at all in walking the length of my main soi here on Phuket after dark but having read about the almost weekly mugging of foreigners all along this busy soi last year, I'd think twice about it now. And, BTW, why's it all gone quiet on these stories? No more muggings? Or are reports being suppressed now? Could be the mainly Chinese groups being the majority travel in packs and make less easy targets?

[mumjokmok]

Because fearmongering about other cultures stops you looking at your own ugly attributes.

Have all those cheap plane tickets been sold in the UK yet? If they have, I'd suggest no one feels particularly threatened by Thais. Go over the border to Malaysia, go out, get paralytic drunk, pick up a local woman, abuse a tuk tuk driver, speak at five times the volume the locals speak, what next u reckon? High fives from Malay men watching u behave like an animal?

Unprovoked or over-the-top violent attacks are a human problem, generally when the male drinks himself drunk, but it's not exclusively Thai....

Question should be- How safe do you feel in the middle of a pack of drunk men?

[dageurreotype]

Most farlangs aren't made to live here. They don't have the skills to avoid frustration or problems. They want the Thai to be like them which will never happen. But at same time they want foreigners coming to their homelands to assimilate or get out. Yes face is an issue here. Accept it and stop whining. It's part of Thai culture which a couple of geriatric farlangs aren't going to change. I dont discuss with Thai cuz its not worth it. If I want a good intellectual discussion I do that at home with educated, experienced people who speak my mother tongue, and who can appreciate a quality beer or glass of wine or single malt and not Spy or Chang or Hong.

Oooooh, get her!

[dageurreotype]

Thais swatting eating bugs in the noon sun cussing a westerner who hadn't sent the daughter

Western union .repeatedly slamming the machete into the ground on the rural property.

Then the conversation turned to ghosts because they had noticed me buying the litre of petrol, at the

Small store on blood red dusty road.

Thais are largely not respectful of us outside of money considerations.

Nor are they our equal in reasoning or worldly affairs.

The ones that claim to be are usually caught up in insidious elitism and repugnant

You're a Cormack McCarthy fan, aren't you

[Morch]

I have always found trouble here to be avoidable and never have I witnessed anything which was unprovoked. If you provoke someone and then things go south, it is your fault and you should have known better.

Agree that most confrontations involving foreigners seem to avoidable or can be concluded in a peaceful manner. This is helped by understanding local culture and adopting a not overly confrontational stance. The issues, I think, are more to do with low provocation thresholds and how quickly these things can escalate.

[Mook23]

the other day, loud guy, shouting at motortaxi driver (ripoff!) while being quoted same price as locals. i told him he was charged standard/fixed price and he wouldn't believe me... locals watch the scene. don't interfere but the driver gets very nervous cuz 1. he did nothing wrong and doesn't understand what is happening to him 2. people are watching him being insulted by a loud farlanger (who then decided to walk at 40°C cuz he was quoted a lousy 50TH lol!!!)

[spidermike007]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Wow. What can one say in response to a story like that. Your father in law coming after you with a knife, due to an incredibly minor perceived slight? Well, at least now you know who he is. And your father in law has turned out to be a deeply disturbed man child, with the emotional development of Mylie Cyrus or Justin Bieber. Steer clear of this fool. He is nothing but trouble, and apparently has nothing but disdain for you, unfortunately. If it were me, I would probably have grabbed the knife out of his hands, and slapped the living hell out of him. In front of his family. Make the loss of face total. LOL. What a goon. What a tiny super freak. I hope your wife realizes how absolutely insane her dad is. If it were me, I would write him off forever, after a stunt like that. No help. Nothing. Ever.

I am fortunate, in that I married a woman with wonderful parents, who are quite mature, and very classy. They would simply engage me, rather than try to kill me.

[spidermike007]

the other day, loud guy, shouting at motortaxi driver (ripoff!) while being quoted same price as locals. i told him he was charged standard/fixed price and he wouldn't believe me... locals watch the scene. don't interfere but the driver gets very nervous cuz 1. he did nothing wrong and doesn't understand what is happening to him 2. people are watching him being insulted by a loud farlanger (who then decided to walk at 40°C cuz he was quoted a lousy 50TH lol!!!)

There are a percentage of foreigners who come here, and refuse to acknowledge that they are in a complete different country and culture. I always tell my friends Thailand is not a foreign country. It is a distant planet. This guy was an absolute fool. There is never any reason to shout at the locals. Always show respect and deference. I have been guilty of this on a few occasions, and I have always regretted losing my temper. Some have not taken it well. I have learned my lesson, and now keep cool, and stay respectful.

In addition to being a loud and obnoxious foreigner, this guy sounds like he is cursed with poverty consciousness. Nothing worse than a foreigner, who has some cash (presumably), and either thinks he is poor, or behaves like he is nearly penniless. That is an ugly thing to witness.

[wellred]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Wow. What can one say in response to a story like that. Your father in law coming after you with a knife, due to an incredibly minor perceived slight? Well, at least now you know who he is. And your father in law has turned out to be a deeply disturbed man child, with the emotional development of Mylie Cyrus or Justin Bieber. Steer clear of this fool. He is nothing but trouble, and apparently has nothing but disdain for you, unfortunately. If it were me, I would probably have grabbed the knife out of his hands, and slapped the living hell out of him. In front of his family. Make the loss of face total. LOL. What a goon. What a tiny super freak. I hope your wife realizes how absolutely insane her dad is. If it were me, I would write him off forever, after a stunt like that. No help. Nothing. Ever.

I am fortunate, in that I married a woman with wonderful parents, who are quite mature, and very classy. They would simply engage me, rather than try to kill me.

Lucky for you however in light of the OP, and all the other stories doing the rounds at the moment, I'd wager that more of your average Thais fit into that bracket than yours.

[chiang mai]

"Mostly this street-level violent crime is between two or more Thai nationals, and usually occurs after hours. The combatants have often had more than their fair share of alcohol or drugs or combinations thereof. Somebody has normally lost face, be it through matters of the heart or the wallet".

Exactly.

Not at all 'exactly'. I'd had no fear at all in walking the length of my main soi here on Phuket after dark but having read about the almost weekly mugging of foreigners all along this busy soi last year, I'd think twice about it now. And, BTW, why's it all gone quiet on these stories? No more muggings? Or are reports being suppressed now? Could be the mainly Chinese groups being the majority travel in packs and make less easy targets?

So you're afraid now because you've not heard that there's been in any crime in a place where you weren't afraid before, that's sensible!!!

[smotherb]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Gee, I'll bet you and your father-in-law have never gotten along--have you ever shown the father of your wife any respect?

[SOTIRIOS]

...when !@#$%^&* decide that....... 'You are going to be their meal ticket'......

...think again.....

...get off with an apology......

...hmmm....seems tempting........

...no wait.....'protected profession'........

[Mook23]

the other day, loud guy, shouting at motortaxi driver (ripoff!) while being quoted same price as locals. i told him he was charged standard/fixed price and he wouldn't believe me... locals watch the scene. don't interfere but the driver gets very nervous cuz 1. he did nothing wrong and doesn't understand what is happening to him 2. people are watching him being insulted by a loud farlanger (who then decided to walk at 40°C cuz he was quoted a lousy 50TH lol!!!)

There are a percentage of foreigners who come here, and refuse to acknowledge that they are in a complete different country and culture. I always tell my friends Thailand is not a foreign country. It is a distant planet. This guy was an absolute fool. There is never any reason to shout at the locals. Always show respect and deference. I have been guilty of this on a few occasions, and I have always regretted losing my temper. Some have not taken it well. I have learned my lesson, and now keep cool, and stay respectful.

In addition to being a loud and obnoxious foreigner, this guy sounds like he is cursed with poverty consciousness. Nothing worse than a foreigner, who has some cash (presumably), and either thinks he is poor, or behaves like he is nearly penniless. That is an ugly thing to witness.

They are a distant planet for us as as we are for them. I agree.

[thesetat2013]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Gee, I'll bet you and your father-in-law have never gotten along--have you ever shown the father of your wife any respect?

What a stupid question.. Of course I have and have known him for years before I ever married his daughter..

[cumgranosalum]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run!

You will not need to run unless the Thai guy has other mates with him or nearby.

..

I don't really think that a simplistic single-issue view of a hypothetical incident is helpful or actually reflects the whole reality of the situation in Thailand at present.

Just saying it as I see it.

surely even with a minimum amount of thought one realises that "seeing is NOT believing" - personal experience without analysis is no argument; the plural of anecdote is not data.

[DrTuner]

Ah, but of course you should fear. Unless you've got the right amulet, which I'm betting the OP is wearing. Or maybe five of them.

[gemguy]

Of course...you should not fear violence in Thailand

Rather...Just learn how to avoid violence and violent situations at all times.....

Cheers

[Kabula]

As the world economy retreats you better fear violence worldwide.

Normalcy bias kills a lot of people worldwide.

When people lose everything they lose it.

Their targets are people who have no concern for their safety.

Even in war zones.

[Yann55]

I was walking around in a big crowd just the other day,i bumped into some body and it was pretty hard.

The Thai man looked back at me with anger in his face,i said sorry to him in Thai and smiled.

He said mai pen rai and we each went our way.

If i would have said "what the <deleted> are you looking at "when he turned around things probably would have turned out differently.

When you live here you will have to accept that Thailand is going to change you,not the other way around.

Going with the customs of the country has nothing to do with being a pussy.Some people who say they would react with more violence do not realize they are exactly the same as the people they are accusing of being violent.

When you start comparing news paper headlines from other places in the world you will see that there is unnessecary violence every where on this planet.

Great post, jvs, full of that highly uncommon thing called common sense.

I don't know if you read Rambo's comment a few posts before yours (#67 by Just1Voice) but it's edifying ... a sort of nemesis to your own view.

I do feel sorry for the British family in Hua Hin, and who wouldn't, but I watched the footage carefully and my first thought was ... uh oh, the post colonial attitude is getting Westerners into big trouble again ...

It's a fact that the first physical violence was administered by the tourists. The rest was reaction and escalation 'amok' style. Amok, a Malay word by the way, which originally describes what happens when an Asian person crosses the line of self-restraint. Of course, nothing can justify the beastly rage shown by the Thai guys afterwards, when those poor tourists suddenly realized that they were not back home.

Back home, if an old lady slaps a lad in the face, the chances of his reacting with extreme violence are thin, because the cultural background is totally different. Not better or worse. Different. Here the script runs on different mechanisms. It's all about the line. And about losing face being the main trigger for crossing that line. Again, it doesn't make these scum right. It just points out that visitors or expats must come to realize that they are not on home ground, and the fact is, most of them don't. I learned my lesson in Pattaya some years ago, in a very violent way (I shot a driver an angry look and almost lost my life for it), and according to many posts here, I'm not the only one. Here's the link to my experience with road rage Thai style :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/735264-nightmare-in-pattaya/

Westerners here, be they expats or tourists, bring with them a massive baggage of attitude, of which they're not even aware, most of the time, and which causes them to behave offensively to locals. Let's face it, it's near impossible for 'us Westerners' not to think of ourselves as superior, for all kinds of historical and sociological reasons, and it's rather comical to see how shocked we are when we realize that Thai (and Chinese, and Japanese, and all Asian) peoples also consider themselves thus.

This feeling of white superiority is all over Thai Visa Forum, in all kinds of ways that range from the subtle to the outrageous. When it's vented on the Forum, it's inconsequential. When it comes out in a crowd where almost everyone is drunk and in a context of growing resentment against white people, then ... sh*t happens.

I remember asking a Chinese guy in Europe, many years ago, why it was that Chinese people thought themselves to be a superior race. My question obviously surprised him very much and he replied : "I don't understand what you mean. We do not consider ourselves superior, we are superior'.

There and then, I realized that we do have one important thing in common with the Chinese ...