Why you shouldn't fear violence in Thailand

[Johnniey]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

[willfreeman]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

so its common practice to try and stab someone because they dont speak the local language? another apologist, more likely he just hates the fact his daughter married a foreigner, no doubt the hatred wouldn't have stopped him from taking or asking for handouts from said foreigner

[spidermike007]

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

You have pretty much nailed the issues with common sense and good that you remain positive.

But to be honest, from my experience, the saying:

" The apple doesnt fall far fromm the tree"

Sadly a lot of guys have come to see the Jeckly/Hyde syndrome in their 'butter wouldnt melt in the mouth' TRak, iin the worst of ways.

It becomes clear that a Thai female slighted can be just as ugly as a Thai male.

Knowing this is the key to knowing the advantage of doing ones best to never allow confrontations ( involving loss of face) to occur in the first place.

Never criticising family is on that list. Even if she winges about them, you cannot. Just try to point out positives.

Going against the father in the slightest way, no matter how stupid or trivial the matter is not on.

I dont know how many westerners would try and take an arrogant superior stance to their FIL in their own country.

Thinking or expecting your Thai wife to side with you against their family is unrealistic and would only happen in rare instances where other obvious factors are present. Trying to test her on it is stupidity.

Thinking yours is different and could never be violent when/if provoked is naive.

If she has never shown that side, great, keep it that way at all costs.

If and when she does go off, careful there are no knives around

The fact is that I stood my ground on dong the plumbing my way and not the Thai way.. Insisting on sanding and glueing all the pipes as well as other things Thais seem to bypass if it takes longer to is more difficult. House is in wife's name. Father just expected me to bend and do things the way he was shown 30 years ago here...I have experience with this so I knew how it should be done. But again, the house didn't even have running water when I started. Throughout the whole ordeal I remained calm and relaxed. As it is her father I seriously doubt she insulted him or didn't show proper respect. Just something clicked inside of him and he went off the handle. Just an FYI, but the father did this also when a different thai son in law wanted to do something different than the way the father wanted to do it.

Anyway, the point was simply that this mentality seems to be dominant in the Thai society. If you don't get things your way, you result to violence as your option and it also seems that this is happening very quickly. A simple argument or misunderstanding can make a Thai snap and take bloody actions quickly.. Perhaps it is from a lack of responsibility for ones own actions that is trained into each Thai from birth!

Perhaps you are right, to some extent. But, I know many Thais that are not like that. He sounds like a particularly unreasonable, immature, petulant, silly, stubborn, willful, closed minded, unintelligent, childish "father". Oh, and did I include the word ignorant? That is the description I use for small men, who resort to violence to "solve" their problems, and address their shortcomings, rather than look within for the source of the problem.

She was unfortunate to be born as his daughter. Many in this country have done far better. He demonstrates regularly what a substandard man he really is. No reason to tolerate that, unless of course you feel you have found an outstanding woman, and her primary issue is having a dreadful father, and that is something you are willing to tolerate. I would not. I could not. He would be hearing from me on a daily basis how ignorant I thought he was.

I realize how obedient Thai kids are taught to be. I told my girlfriend (now my wife) many years ago, that part of growing up is the ability to say "mother, father you are wrong". And to be able to make your case. To be able to say I don't live under your roof anymore. You do not support me. To the contrary in many cases! So, you cannot dictate to me anymore. I will not tolerate that. I am an adult, an individual, and I am living my life to my standards. If you do not approve my husband and I do not care much, quite frankly.

I doubt she ever used much of that dialogue with her folks, like I did with mine, after I left home at a tender young age. It worked for me. I assume many Thai parents would be offended. So what? Offend them. Offending one's parents can be a very healthy thing to do, if they are completely wrong about something.

[Johnniey]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

so its common practice to try and stab someone because they dont speak the local language? another apologist, more likely he just hates the fact his daughter married a foreigner, no doubt the hatred wouldn't have stopped him from taking or asking for handouts from said foreigner

Well what would you think if your daughter married a foreigner who didn't learn your language?

Apologist? Is this a word you learned whilst being a internet expert on Thailand?

[willfreeman]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

so its common practice to try and stab someone because they dont speak the local language? another apologist, more likely he just hates the fact his daughter married a foreigner, no doubt the hatred wouldn't have stopped him from taking or asking for handouts from said foreigner

Well what would you think if your daughter married a foreigner who didn't learn your language?

Apologist? Is this a word you learned whilst being a internet expert on Thailand?

i would hardly consider it justification for flying off the handle and trying to kill him. Never claimed to be an expert on anything but refusing to see fault in thais or thailand and constantly kissing their ass doesnt qualify one as an expert either

[BritManToo]

I'm not worried about the violence, but I am worried about the bill from the Thai hospital for patching me up after.

And having my passport taken for months/years, and facing counter charges and court costs if I tried to fight back.

[Kiwiken]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

so its common practice to try and stab someone because they dont speak the local language? another apologist, more likely he just hates the fact his daughter married a foreigner, no doubt the hatred wouldn't have stopped him from taking or asking for handouts from said foreigner

Well what would you think if your daughter married a foreigner who didn't learn your language?

Apologist? Is this a word you learned whilst being a internet expert on Thailand?

I am so glad we all come from enlightened tolerant Societies. In Our Countries We never slang off at Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, Indian and other different peoples when the converse in their own language. Tolerance is a word we all need to learn. If you live in Thai learn the language. I try to. In My Country I see people struggling to speak English and pronounce Maori names but I accept they have difficulty. Here My Thai is bumbling but it gets me what I need and friendly smiles when I mess it up. Again I believe in being polite. Intolerance is often what causes trouble. A lot of good things said here.

[Kiwiken]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

I don't blame him for being upset that the foreigner who married his daughter thinks that he shouldn't have to learn her language, especially if he is staying in Thailand.

so its common practice to try and stab someone because they dont speak the local language? another apologist, more likely he just hates the fact his daughter married a foreigner, no doubt the hatred wouldn't have stopped him from taking or asking for handouts from said foreigner

Well what would you think if your daughter married a foreigner who didn't learn your language?

Apologist? Is this a word you learned whilst being a internet expert on Thailand?

I am so glad we all come from enlightened tolerant Societies. In Our Countries We never slang off at Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, Indian and other different peoples when the converse in their own language. Tolerance is a word we all need to learn. If you live in Thai learn the language. I try to. In My Country I see people struggling to speak English and pronounce Maori names but I accept they have difficulty. Here My Thai is bumbling but it gets me what I need and friendly smiles when I mess it up. Again I believe in being polite. Intolerance is often what causes trouble. A lot of good things said here.

[BlindMagician]

In the 7 years I've been here, I have made it a point to keep my opinions to myself (except with my wife), and just play the role of the "humble farang". In that time I've only had two situations come up.

First was when 4 young Thai men "scoped" me out buying a gold necklace, and decided they would rob me for it. It didn't turn out well for them. I kept the necklace, and they got hospital bills.

Second was when my wife went to court over a bill she owed prior to our marriage, and an agreement was reached in court that she would pay 500 baht a month. About a month later, 3 Thai men in their late 20's show up at our house. My wife met them outside and invited them to sit at the table. They told her that because she was now married to a "rich farang", they were going to raise it to 10,000 a month. That's when my wife stood up, came into the house and asked me to come outside, where she told me what they had said. I told her to tell them the amount was set by the court, and if they wanted it changed, they would have to go back to the court. One of them puffed up his chest and said they had the right to change it. (My wife translated for me.) At that point I slipped my feet out of the slippers and removed my watch. My wife said something to them, deadly serious. They all looked at me, stood up and quickly left, never to return. When I asked what she told them, she replied: "I told them they had 30 seconds to get off our property, and if they didn't, in 40 seconds I would be calling for ambulances to come get them." All I could do was laugh.

There have been a couple of situations at family gatherings where arguments ensued (normal behavior), and I was asked what my opinion was. My answer? Hey, it's your country, I'm just a guest, so what I think doesn't matter. Worked perfectly, and they went back to arguing among themselves.

Despite the fact that I am highly trained in martial arts, and military combat martial arts, I studiously try to avoid any situation where I might have to use those skills and training, and I constantly keep eyes in the back of my head for any potential problem. I am constantly aware of my surroundings, and always have an "escape plan" ready.

I thought Batman was still crusading in Gotham, not retired in LoS?

[bamukloy]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

While I can see that this sort of thing can happen I wonder how he exactly heard "talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father" We have heard your version and it sounds very civilized and innocuous. But he might have heard something different and your version does not perhaps tell the whole story. Perhaps your wife had translated on this subject several times in previous conversations and her possible exasperation on the subject came through this time. Perhaps she added some offending phrase out of her own feelings and it might have been acceptable if he thought it came from her but perhaps he thought it was your exact words and felt outraged. She might not have liked to admit that to you. My apologies to her if I have misinterpreted or wrongly accused her of possibly unintentional escalation involvement. There are also the considerations raised by another poster about whose responsibilities were involved, financial, property ownership etc.

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

You have pretty much nailed the issues with common sense and good that you remain positive.

But to be honest, from my experience, the saying:

" The apple doesnt fall far fromm the tree"

Sadly a lot of guys have come to see the Jeckly/Hyde syndrome in their 'butter wouldnt melt in the mouth' TRak, iin the worst of ways.

It becomes clear that a Thai female slighted can be just as ugly as a Thai male.

Knowing this is the key to knowing the advantage of doing ones best to never allow confrontations ( involving loss of face) to occur in the first place.

Never criticising family is on that list. Even if she winges about them, you cannot. Just try to point out positives.

Going against the father in the slightest way, no matter how stupid or trivial the matter is not on.

I dont know how many westerners would try and take an arrogant superior stance to their FIL in their own country.

Thinking or expecting your Thai wife to side with you against their family is unrealistic and would only happen in rare instances where other obvious factors are present. Trying to test her on it is stupidity.

Thinking yours is different and could never be violent when/if provoked is naive.

If she has never shown that side, great, keep it that way at all costs.

If and when she does go off, careful there are no knives around

The fact is that I stood my ground on dong the plumbing my way and not the Thai way.. Insisting on sanding and glueing all the pipes as well as other things Thais seem to bypass if it takes longer to is more difficult. House is in wife's name. Father just expected me to bend and do things the way he was shown 30 years ago here...I have experience with this so I knew how it should be done. But again, the house didn't even have running water when I started. Throughout the whole ordeal I remained calm and relaxed. As it is her father I seriously doubt she insulted him or didn't show proper respect. Just something clicked inside of him and he went off the handle. Just an FYI, but the father did this also when a different thai son in law wanted to do something different than the way the father wanted to do it.

Anyway, the point was simply that this mentality seems to be dominant in the Thai society. If you don't get things your way, you result to violence as your option and it also seems that this is happening very quickly. A simple argument or misunderstanding can make a Thai snap and take bloody actions quickly.. Perhaps it is from a lack of responsibility for ones own actions that is trained into each Thai from birth!

I see where you are coming from. If its your house, your plans, your money..fair enough.

Of course the Thai way (from what i have seen anyway) would have been to smile and quietly agree with the old SOB, then go ahead and arrange to do it your way anyway.

By the time he notices you did it your way, time has lapsed, the issue is forgotten, and no-one looses face.

The obvious trouble is being a farang you often havent got total control over building standards and methods as you have to rely on others to convey your will to builders/tradesmen.

I'd like to point out, my grandfather, of east European ethnicity was an absolute tool for this kind of thing.

He would scream and yell and totally loose it if things werent to his liking.

He never laid a hand on anyone though, it was all a mental thing that involved shame and total humiliation.

In the Thais case, they are sometimes holding things in like a pressure cooker, waiting to explode.

Given that this society decides peoples worth purely in possesions, wealth and status doesnt help either.

Not having these things obviously wreaks havoc on the fragile Thai male ego.

When someone corners them, diagrees, or prooves them wrong (ie loose face) i guess it is to much to bear. Sad really.

As mentioned above though, i believe for every bad situation here, there is a "Thai way" of getting out of it unscathed.

It doesnt involve bending over and taking it, or arse kissing (these are the percieved notions that get farangs in trouble)

It is about adapting and countering a bad situation when not in your own culture,

against people that, shall we say, are not educated enough, to appreciate sensible debate or constructive criticism.

[FritsSikkink]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

nothing ignorant or racist about it, the average thai is hardly well versed in world affairs/current events most of them dont even know who hitler is

like western people whi know next to nothing about asia, afrika and south america? how many know the name of the japanese invader?

[FritsSikkink]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

Not everybody is ignorant enough to think Thai is a race.

so you Do communicate with other asians?

[Gonsalviz]

Never have, never will.

Crimes are committed all over the world. There are places that have more violence than others but Thailand is not one of them.

[BritManToo]

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

Not everybody is ignorant enough to think Thai is a race.

so you Do communicate with other asians?

Japanese and Koreans are generally fine people (not both nationalities in the room at the same time though, they hate each other).

I don't know any other Asians from other countries though, so can't comment on them.

[DM07]

Soooooo...learn the language, always back down, stay away from alcohol and nightlife, stay home and lock the door before darkness!

Is that about the recipe for not getting in trouble in Thailand?

That is the standard?

[chiang mai]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

While I can see that this sort of thing can happen I wonder how he exactly heard "talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father" We have heard your version and it sounds very civilized and innocuous. But he might have heard something different and your version does not perhaps tell the whole story. Perhaps your wife had translated on this subject several times in previous conversations and her possible exasperation on the subject came through this time. Perhaps she added some offending phrase out of her own feelings and it might have been acceptable if he thought it came from her but perhaps he thought it was your exact words and felt outraged. She might not have liked to admit that to you. My apologies to her if I have misinterpreted or wrongly accused her of possibly unintentional escalation involvement. There are also the considerations raised by another poster about whose responsibilities were involved, financial, property ownership etc.

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

You have pretty much nailed the issues with common sense and good that you remain positive.

But to be honest, from my experience, the saying:

" The apple doesnt fall far fromm the tree"

Sadly a lot of guys have come to see the Jeckly/Hyde syndrome in their 'butter wouldnt melt in the mouth' TRak, iin the worst of ways.

It becomes clear that a Thai female slighted can be just as ugly as a Thai male.

Knowing this is the key to knowing the advantage of doing ones best to never allow confrontations ( involving loss of face) to occur in the first place.

Never criticising family is on that list. Even if she winges about them, you cannot. Just try to point out positives.

Going against the father in the slightest way, no matter how stupid or trivial the matter is not on.

I dont know how many westerners would try and take an arrogant superior stance to their FIL in their own country.

Thinking or expecting your Thai wife to side with you against their family is unrealistic and would only happen in rare instances where other obvious factors are present. Trying to test her on it is stupidity.

Thinking yours is different and could never be violent when/if provoked is naive.

If she has never shown that side, great, keep it that way at all costs.

If and when she does go off, careful there are no knives around

The fact is that I stood my ground on dong the plumbing my way and not the Thai way.. Insisting on sanding and glueing all the pipes as well as other things Thais seem to bypass if it takes longer to is more difficult. House is in wife's name. Father just expected me to bend and do things the way he was shown 30 years ago here...I have experience with this so I knew how it should be done. But again, the house didn't even have running water when I started. Throughout the whole ordeal I remained calm and relaxed. As it is her father I seriously doubt she insulted him or didn't show proper respect. Just something clicked inside of him and he went off the handle. Just an FYI, but the father did this also when a different thai son in law wanted to do something different than the way the father wanted to do it.

Anyway, the point was simply that this mentality seems to be dominant in the Thai society. If you don't get things your way, you result to violence as your option and it also seems that this is happening very quickly. A simple argument or misunderstanding can make a Thai snap and take bloody actions quickly.. Perhaps it is from a lack of responsibility for ones own actions that is trained into each Thai from birth!

I see where you are coming from. If its your house, your plans, your money..fair enough.

Of course the Thai way (from what i have seen anyway) would have been to smile and quietly agree with the old SOB, then go ahead and arrange to do it your way anyway.

By the time he notices you did it your way, time has lapsed, the issue is forgotten, and no-one looses face.

The obvious trouble is being a farang you often havent got total control over building standards and methods as you have to rely on others to convey your will to builders/tradesmen.

I'd like to point out, my grandfather, of east European ethnicity was an absolute tool for this kind of thing.

He would scream and yell and totally loose it if things werent to his liking.

He never laid a hand on anyone though, it was all a mental thing that involved shame and total humiliation.

In the Thais case, they are sometimes holding things in like a pressure cooker, waiting to explode.

Given that this society decides peoples worth purely in possesions, wealth and status doesnt help either.

Not having these things obviously wreaks havoc on the fragile Thai male ego.

When someone corners them, diagrees, or prooves them wrong (ie loose face) i guess it is to much to bear. Sad really.

As mentioned above though, i believe for every bad situation here, there is a "Thai way" of getting out of it unscathed.

It doesnt involve bending over and taking it, or arse kissing (these are the percieved notions that get farangs in trouble)

It is about adapting and countering a bad situation when not in your own culture,

against people that, shall we say, are not educated enough, to appreciate sensible debate or constructive criticism.

Was it your decision to write an entire thesis on this subject or was it simply a course requirement.

[Shadychris]

I tend to agree with most of what was said here. I still find most Thai people to be non-violent. There are always going to be exceptions. But, I still think the vast majority of violent incidents here are Thai on Thai. Very little Thai on farang incidents. Thankfully.

And most of the time it does happen, it is due to a misunderstanding of Thai culture. I think most of the time it is due to some perceived loss of face. I despise face, and consider it to be the ultimate act of cowardice. But, that changes nothing. If a Thai guy considers himself to be somehow slighted or wronged by you, often a polite and respectful apology, and a sincere wai, goes a long way toward encouraging him to back off. Often. A lot of foreigners (like the family in HH) do not seem to understand that. You just do not get aggressive with a Thai man. It always ends ugly. You cannot win that fight, regardless of the outcome. Just back down, defer to him, and walk away.

"misunderstanding of Thai culture." - actually I think that is an easy cop-out. Thai culture is not static and there are no black and white rules....the other side is that Thai society is changing rapidly and up to 10% of the economy relies on foreign visitors.....if they want to maintain a good international image it is up to Thailand to demonstrate that they are serious about taking care of their customers........we need a well trained police force, and a reliable functioning leal system.

What do you mean - "we need". Are you Thai?

I thought that like me, you were a guest in this country.....

But then again perhaps you are confused about your status, as earlier in your post you wrote "if 'they' want to maintain a good international image"

[balo]

Just stay away from trouble, do not get drunk and smile to the locals . Worked for me for the last 5 years. And I do not walk around in small sois 4 am in the morning. I had one accident , insurance paid for it and the locals involved was very helpful. If I would meet a bunch of young and drunk Thais I just walk away.

[Lingba]

In typical Thai style attacks..a group of young idiots recently gang up, brutally attack and kill a disabled man...

Should we fear violence in Thailand??

[SoiBiker]

Soooooo...learn the language, always back down, stay away from alcohol and nightlife, stay home and lock the door before darkness!

Is that about the recipe for not getting in trouble in Thailand?

That is the standard?

Maybe get a couple of amulets just in case.

[FritsSikkink]

Soooooo...learn the language, always back down, stay away from alcohol and nightlife, stay home and lock the door before darkness!

Is that about the recipe for not getting in trouble in Thailand?

That is the standard?

nope, learn the language and don't be a pussy

[dbrenn]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Get a new father in law.

[Nigeone]

Some interesting points on here..my two penny's worth is that as we for the most part are reasonably intelligent we should know for the majority of times how and when to stay out of potential trouble. One difference is in our own countries it would be normal for people to step in and help in some of these incidents that we have been seeing. However sadly in Thailand for the most part they will then turn on you along with anyone else so inclined. The guns or knives will come out and you risk coming second to attacks by a race that doesn't care about what they do. When I'm in Thailand I respect the Thais generally and avoid the ones I don't respect! Sadly generally I feel that Thais don't respect us in any shape or form and put up with us for what we can bring to the table.. Not everyone I would say but most !. Their culture doesn't allow them to understand that even though we have so much to bring to the table and they can learn so much from us they still insist that there is nothing that they need to learn from Falang. Not all together there fault as the education system doesn't enable them to gain knowledge sadly. I have tried many times to help my ex step son so many times skills that would have helped him in years to come and even willing to set him up in a workshop I built so he could do jobs around the village. Sadly he was more interested in sleeping ,playing video games and once 5 pm came going and getting drunk. 25 years old now and he's now done the Monk angle and turned to that rather than get a job...That's what the countries up against, the mentality of the young population!

[Plutojames88]

The chances of standing near a felon in Thailand rises dramatically.

No matter where you are.

The reality is being in an isolated situation with a Thai has risk associated .

I remember reading around 8 years ago about a taxi driver stopping on a journey between Pattaya and the Airport.

He tricked the westerner to get out of the taxi presumably out of sight.

Then repeatedly stabbed him.

Evidence was the westerner profusely wounded fought then tried to flee for his life, but the murderer got him and ended it with another frenzy.

Gambling debts were the motive the killer confessed.

He said he was a good man , but needed money.

The police agreed he was normally good.

And the westerner had mentioned gifts and items and indicated he had cash.

Produced a thick wallet.

A conviction was however made .

But it was noted the western was foolish.

Violence in Thailand goes often along the lines of "" have "" and "" no have""

Robbery rather than death in more common less reported.

Most are not and occur in bedrooms .

Such as drugged men who are robbed.

A punter who gets rolled by ladyboys.

A 7/11 retired expat king hit.

A village westerner kicked by an in law.

Violence is something only law prevents from occurring far more often.

Jail cells abound with felons.

Many to a cell.

Thousands in total.

Most are released and reoffend.

Unlike western countries where cons are shunned unless rehabilitation seems complete , and even then placed in roles less exposure to public, Thais have them driving boats and taxis , and tour guides.

The biggest problem is their resentment for us.

So when their leader says we don't understand they hear it.

To Thai their elites are number one in world and like animals they cower on their knees to regal posturing if ever one passes them.

A princess will have in rural areas a multitude of citizens on their knees .

It is a deeply revered institution.

Westerners are largely and purely a financial consideration.

We are not really studied for our histories, culture, or arts, etc.

What we know is not equal to Thai.

But this niggles at them as they see how we navigate the world and live to them a jet setters life.( holidaying)

They realise that the world isn't fair .

And resent us.

It's a slap in the proverbial face.

And so violence when a farang explains something wrong to them is the only recourse.

I have some engineering qualifications and I once fixed a tractor while my Thai partners father was away.

I went to his rural property and in two hours had it going .

He resented me from that day onwards.

We broke up eventually.

It never lead to violence but I would never go off to see how he was in the fields alone again.

Thailand is a third world country .

By nature in developing countries violence occurs ahead of reasoning.

No countries are escape violence but in Thailand it can be created over simple things that are even charitable.

[spidermike007]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Get a new father in law.

Exactly my take on the situation. More than likely his daughter is not going to take your side, or express any disloyalty to her boss (father). And her father has demonstrated that he has little in the way of redeeming qualities, by coming after a family member with a knife. Talk about crossing the line! I would have taken him out to the woodshed for a beating.

[cumgranosalum]

The chances of standing near a felon in Thailand rises dramatically.

No matter where you are.

The reality is being in an isolated situation with a Thai has risk associated .

I remember reading around 8 years ago about a taxi driver stopping on a journey between Pattaya and the Airport.

He tricked the westerner to get out of the taxi presumably out of sight.

Then repeatedly stabbed him.

Evidence was the westerner profusely wounded fought then tried to flee for his life, but the murderer got him and ended it with another frenzy.

Gambling debts were the motive the killer confessed.

He said he was a good man , but needed money.

The police agreed he was normally good.

And the westerner had mentioned gifts and items and indicated he had cash.

Produced a thick wallet.

A conviction was however made .

But it was noted the western was foolish.

Violence in Thailand goes often along the lines of "" have "" and "" no have""

Robbery rather than death in more common less reported.

Most are not and occur in bedrooms .

Such as drugged men who are robbed.

A punter who gets rolled by ladyboys.

A 7/11 retired expat king hit.

A village westerner kicked by an in law.

Violence is something only law prevents from occurring far more often.

Jail cells abound with felons.

Many to a cell.

Thousands in total.

Most are released and reoffend.

Unlike western countries where cons are shunned unless rehabilitation seems complete , and even then placed in roles less exposure to public, Thais have them driving boats and taxis , and tour guides.

The biggest problem is their resentment for us.

So when their leader says we don't understand they hear it.

To Thai their elites are number one in world and like animals they cower on their knees to regal posturing if ever one passes them.

A princess will have in rural areas a multitude of citizens on their knees .

It is a deeply revered institution.

Westerners are largely and purely a financial consideration.

We are not really studied for our histories, culture, or arts, etc.

What we know is not equal to Thai.

But this niggles at them as they see how we navigate the world and live to them a jet setters life.( holidaying)

They realise that the world isn't fair .

And resent us.

It's a slap in the proverbial face.

And so violence when a farang explains something wrong to them is the only recourse.

I have some engineering qualifications and I once fixed a tractor while my Thai partners father was away.

I went to his rural property and in two hours had it going .

He resented me from that day onwards.

We broke up eventually.

It never lead to violence but I would never go off to see how he was in the fields alone again.

Thailand is a third world country .

By nature in developing countries violence occurs ahead of reasoning.

No countries are escape violence but in Thailand it can be created over simple things that are even charitable.

Felony.....

In the US the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours usually depends on the penalties or consequences attaching to the crime. In English law felony originally comprised those offences (murder, wounding, arson, rape, and robbery) for which the penalty included forfeiture of land and goods. Forfeiture was abolished in 1870, and in 1967 felonies and misdemeanours were replaced by indictable and non-indictable offences.

Third World

1 - the underdeveloped nations of the world, especially those withwidespread poverty.

2 - the group of developing nations, especially of Asia and Africa, that do not align themselves with the policies of either the U.S. or the formerSoviet Union.

Crime Stats

Since the 2014 coup, crime in Thailand is reported by the Royal Thai Police; however, there is no single agency which acts as a watchdog and publishes statistics

In November 2015, the New York Times reported that in the fiscal year ending September 2015, the national police have seen a surge in thefts, burglaries, and robberies, more than 75,557 thefts and other property crimes in the fiscal year, 10.5 percent higher than the previous year. - wiki

Violent crime was up 8.6 percent during the same period - the Thai authorities reject these figures with the following somewhat unscientific rebuttal by Amorn Wanichwiwatana who said " "I don’t think that’s the case. It's not possible," - wiki

IMO this poster is making a lot of far too generalised conclusions based on some very shaky premises and assumptions.

Quite apart from the terms used which indicate a somewhat slapdash approach, it seems that increase in crime is of a shorter nature than would be explained by the posters assumptions anyway.

​i think to begin to understand rime in Thailand one needs to have a realistic picture of what is really going on.

[Tomtomtom69]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Sounds like you married into the wrong family. I have never heard of such garbage before - foreign consultants come to Thailand all the time to advise better ways of doing things and Thais listen and appreciate the advice given. If they don't then they pretend to listen and don't implement the actions given. Simple.

What you just stated is a very unusual story. The father was either mentally deranged or angry that you married his daughter. Without judging you, I reckon you probably married one of these lo-so bar girls. A more educated father would never react in such a way.

[Tomtomtom69]

The chances of standing near a felon in Thailand rises dramatically.

No matter where you are.

The reality is being in an isolated situation with a Thai has risk associated .

I remember reading around 8 years ago about a taxi driver stopping on a journey between Pattaya and the Airport.

He tricked the westerner to get out of the taxi presumably out of sight.

Then repeatedly stabbed him.

Evidence was the westerner profusely wounded fought then tried to flee for his life, but the murderer got him and ended it with another frenzy.

Gambling debts were the motive the killer confessed.

He said he was a good man , but needed money.

The police agreed he was normally good.

And the westerner had mentioned gifts and items and indicated he had cash.

Produced a thick wallet.

A conviction was however made .

But it was noted the western was foolish.

Violence in Thailand goes often along the lines of "" have "" and "" no have""

Robbery rather than death in more common less reported.

Most are not and occur in bedrooms .

Such as drugged men who are robbed.

A punter who gets rolled by ladyboys.

A 7/11 retired expat king hit.

A village westerner kicked by an in law.

Violence is something only law prevents from occurring far more often.

Jail cells abound with felons.

Many to a cell.

Thousands in total.

Most are released and reoffend.

Unlike western countries where cons are shunned unless rehabilitation seems complete , and even then placed in roles less exposure to public, Thais have them driving boats and taxis , and tour guides.

The biggest problem is their resentment for us.

So when their leader says we don't understand they hear it.

To Thai their elites are number one in world and like animals they cower on their knees to regal posturing if ever one passes them.

A princess will have in rural areas a multitude of citizens on their knees .

It is a deeply revered institution.

Westerners are largely and purely a financial consideration.

We are not really studied for our histories, culture, or arts, etc.

What we know is not equal to Thai.

But this niggles at them as they see how we navigate the world and live to them a jet setters life.( holidaying)

They realise that the world isn't fair .

And resent us.

It's a slap in the proverbial face.

And so violence when a farang explains something wrong to them is the only recourse.

I have some engineering qualifications and I once fixed a tractor while my Thai partners father was away.

I went to his rural property and in two hours had it going .

He resented me from that day onwards.

We broke up eventually.

It never lead to violence but I would never go off to see how he was in the fields alone again.

Thailand is a third world country .

By nature in developing countries violence occurs ahead of reasoning.

No countries are escape violence but in Thailand it can be created over simple things that are even charitable.

So you broke up with your Thai spouse because you fixed her father's tractor?

What kind of bs is this? If you're an engineer then that means you are educated and capable of getting a good job.

What would they rather have had you sitting on your ass all day doing nothing and have him fix the tractor instead, or bring it to a garage?

Normally women marry men who are higher in status than they are and it's considered especially good if a husband can also be a good son-in-law that can get stuff done, not some useless loser who doesn't have any skills. Even in Thailand education and having skills is appreciated.

Good thing you broke up with that b**** because by the sounds of it, she and her father are mentally deranged.

[Tomtomtom69]

When people make reference to other places, be it slums in their homeland, the connect looses all relevance. The focus has to be on here and now. The here and now is volatile, especially with rhetoric echoing that foreigners pose a threat to the kingdom. It's apparent that Chinese tourism is the preferred visitor and it's fitting, considering their place in there own society is not to rock boats or not ask questions. Farangs, in order not to be a target of venting, it's best to fade into the shadows. If that's not in our vocabulary, maybe it's time to move on. For sure, the situation in Thailand is not going to change, in fact it may further erode and yes western expats may be the target of frustration. But..lets hope not. It's important to keep in mind, there is definite air of confusion, fear and concern in Thailand, and just maybe we should exercise caution and respect for the countries uncertainties. So...lets be careful out there.

Chinese don't rock boats or ask questions? Are you new here or something? Chinese can get angry and violent over the slightest "injustices" and will launch into an angry tirade much more quickly than westerners. I've seen it happen all the time in China and it's starting to happen here in Thailand too.

​Don't come up with ridiculous conclusions about the Chinese tourist presence here. Chinese tourists are here because they have money to travel, nothing more nothing less. Westerners are still coming, but keep in mind China is a lot closer to Thailand than any western country is, not to mention it has a population that is larger than the combined population of all western countries, hence more of them are coming here now.

[Tomtomtom69]

I lived in a village in North West Thailand,i moved into my girlfriends house and her older son did not want to work so one day i said to him do not think i am going to support you,next thing he gone crazy( HE WAS ALREADY ON JABA) he came at me i shut the door so i could get out into the street,thats when i see a crash helmet thrown into the street next minute he had 2 machets in his hands saying i want to kill you,i hid in a house down the road, my girlfriend called the police i was told by the police i must move out of the house,which i have done.

What do you expect, exactly?

You are living with somebody else's kid and that kid is on drugs. You live with that situation, yet are somewhat shocked when the drug addict turns on you.

Would you move in with a drug addict in your home country?

This guy's story confirms my assumptions that most westerners (except the relatively young and the ones well known in the Thai-expat business community) tend to go out with the dredges of Thai society, bar girls from broken marriages with drug addicted kids, no income and little education. Is this what western altruism is about, going out with the lowest of the low, the types that no respectable Thai man would get into a relationship with because you feel sorry for their situation?

I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than subject myself to the humiliation of being in a relationship with a woman who is a loser in her own society.

There should really be minimum qualifications for Thai women to be in relationships with foreign men (especially westerners) as follows:

Minimum education: Bachelor's Degree (Master's Degree preferred)

Minimum income: 25,000 Baht a month if under 35, 35,000 Baht a month if over

Comes from a middle class family

Has been overseas to at least 2-3 countries

Owns a car

Lives in a house or nice condo

Something like that