Yingluck tells Prayut to follow his own advices

[rubl]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

[sjaak327]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

[rubl]

"Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

You're ignoring the part you didn't like, the "People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politician"

[scorecard]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

Is this robert in a bear suit?

[scorecard]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring."

Most divisive, and inaccurate post of the year.

[JAG]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring."

Most divisive, and inaccurate post of the year.

Strikes me as a fairly accurate assessment of the whole business. But in one way you're right, forcing out the lawfully constitutionally elected government and replacing it with a junta was always going to be divisive. but hey; that's a price they are quite happy to pay!

[CantSpell]

Anything to stay in the news....

[Winniedapu]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

Nope, what Thailand should do is get serious about corruption, because they never have been, and are not now, serious about corruption. The reason is that the probability is that all those who prosecute corruption have been at some time or are now, the beneficiaries of corruption. Corruption is as much a part of the Thai culture as eating chilies or not understanding the word 'clean'.

Proved corruption (not just some civil servant judge deciding so) should automatically result in prison time and disqualified from standing in any future election.

W

Edited May 31, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Winniedapu]

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring."

Most divisive, and inaccurate post of the year.

Then we are not in agreement. That's better than throwing around emotive and ill-considered words like 'inaccurate' and 'divisive'. Is it not?

W

[A1Str8]

Yingluck has never been criticized, people just dont like fake crooks and it was pointed out.

Edited May 31, 2016 by A1Str8

[Winniedapu]

As I said she wasn't in charge so it wasn't her that needed to listen. It's difficult to argue against the fact that she was just there to allow her brother control and do photo shoots. It shows that Thaksin was probably not that trusting of others in his party. I would never suggest she was anything other than a puppet but like anyone she has her good points and I think looking for compromise might be one of them. A couple of years ago had those above her listened things just might have have turned out differently. She may well have tried to persuade her brother to take a different route than just his amnesty which could have kept her as PM for longer but I get the impression he's not the sort to listen.

As for why she got herself into herself dragged into it I don't know but my best guess is that she doesn't appear to have ever had a proper job and those she has had she was given by her brother.

"as i said" "difficult to argue" any EVIDENCE or are you just making it up as usual? but... but... Thaksin is boring and wearing VERY thin

you are just a victim of the yellow propaganda but be nice if you tried engaging the critical thinking process occasionally?

"As I said" means as I said in my previous post which if you check you'll find I did. "Difficult to argue". Based on what I know, which doesn't include being but personally involved, yes I think it is. I notice you've not supplied any contradictory evidence. Do I usually make things up? Maybe you can show me where. I never said "but Thaksin" however it's difficult not to mention him as he's involved as he still is today. Just check out the threads on here in the past week or so.

My reasoning behind saying that it's difficult to argue against Yingluck being just a puppet is this. I know that Thaksin was restricted in who he would like to be leader and possibly PM due to the political bans on many of his party including Yingluck's sister but I find it hard to believe that as he and the party looked at all the possible choices, some of them family and many very experienced, that a woman with no interest or experience of politics who just happens to be his sister was the one they considered the best option. Think about it. If the Democrats got rid of Abhisit as leader and then won an election and chose as leader and PM a woman of no experience who just happened to be a relative of Suthep would you think she was in charge? I certainly wouldn't.

Many supporter of the reds and PTP have said that a lot of people voted for PTP and Yingluck because they knew he'd be in charge. I know some like that myself. The slogan "Thaksin thinks PTP acts" is a big clue and I've read interviews with Thaksin were he pointed to that himself. He never claims complete control but it's pretty close.

As for my statement that Yingluck doesn't seem to have had a proper job I had it on this. If you look at her jobs, and in particular as CEO of AIS surely that would have involved a lot of meetings and being able to stand up and defend your actions and plans for the future of the company. That's something that she either was unable to do or was considered by others unable to do so she spent a lot of time out of the country. I wouldn't think many CEOs if challenged on the performance of future of their company would say I don't know about it, I wasn't at the meeting and I can't talk I'm off to catch a plane. I believe she admitted in court that she's never been to a rice committee meeting despite being chairwoman.

This all started because I tried to defend her against people who said she never listened to other peoples views. I can't prove it but there are things that suggest she might have done but she was prevented from acting on them. I'd need evidence to believe she was really in charge but if it hadn't been for all the problems with the rice scheme, which Thaksin has said was his idea, then she might have the qualities to enable moderates on both sides to come together.

Still it you think she's responsible for everything then fine. Maybe you should ask her what happened to the justice she promised for those killed in 2010.

Lots of people have said and do say lots of things. Personally I think she was a very good PM, she was certainly a better manager than most of the others I've seen. The problem is that many of her senior colleagues were questionable, but I accept that as Thaksin's proxy (and I don't see any reasonable argument that she wasn't - in any event a lot of people voted for her for exactly the reason that she was), she may not have had full discretion - appointing Chelerm for example was a truly awful thing to do, and he wasn't the only one.

And I do not believe she was personally corrupt while PM, and that says a lot more about previous PM's than it says about Yingluck because people have a right to expect that their PM is not a thief.

W

[sjaak327]

"Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

You're ignoring the part you didn't like, the "People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politician

"

That part IS democracy dear Rubl. The electorate has every right to elect the same sort of politicians each and every time. And they probably elect them for very good reasons.

The problem arises when certain people cannot accept and respect this very fact. Especially in the case of Thailand where such people have the power and means to do something about their disrespect for the electorate like stage a coup every now and then.

In a nutshell the difference between true democrats and democrats that only talk about democracy whilst cementing their power base without any electoral mandate, all the while pretending to return Thailand to democracy. Trouble is, they have not understood democracy, whilst at the same time accusing the large majority of the electorate from not understanding it. I still don't understand who they think they are kidding. Maybe themselves, if you repeat lies often enough they become true sort of thing...

Edited May 31, 2016 by sjaak327

[rubl]

"Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

You're ignoring the part you didn't like, the "People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politician

"

That part IS democracy dear Rubl. The electorate has every right to elect the same sort of politicians each and every time. And they probably elect them for very good reasons.

The problem arises when certain people cannot accept and respect this very fact. Especially in the case of Thailand where such people have the power and means to do something about their disrespect for the electorate like stage a coup every now and then.

In a nutshell the difference between true democrats and democrats that only talk about democracy whilst cementing their power base without any electoral mandate, all the while pretending to return Thailand to democracy. Trouble is, they have not understood democracy, whilst at the same time accusing the large majority of the electorate from not understanding it. I still don't understand who they think they are kidding. Maybe themselves, if you repeat lies often enough they become true sort of thing...

You give all the right reasons why Thailand is not ready for democracy. Couldn't have said it better.

"cementing with electoral mandate" with Winnies "naive and corrupt politicians" people keep electing.

[deckape]

I still get a twinge of hard joy when I see a picture of Yingluck. What a fox.

[neverdie]

I still get a twinge of hard joy when I see a picture of Yingluck. What a fox.

Yeah, surely she's not really related to ole block head.

555555