Brand-new Chatuchak bike lane becomes street food hub, parking lot

[chainarong]

I see no problem here , it was a bike lane once now it is a food hub, inventiveness is the hub of all creation ...........................

[DM07]

Noooooooo #$@&^!* way!

Are you actually saying, there are not enough bicycle- riders in Bangkok, to justify bike lanes?

But not so long ago, I have seen a hysterical mass of a million bikers, blocking mainstreets on the city on a Friday afternoon...oh...wait...

[MaxYakov]

"BANGKOK: -- It looks like cyclists have lost the chance to [exclusively] use the brand-new bike lane at JJ market and Suan Rod Fai after street vendors, tuk-tuks and cars moved in and claimed the bicycle lane last month."

From the provided photo, it appears there is a narrow path remaining between the concrete barriers and the vendors. Additionally, there appears to be a relatively open sidewalk/footpath still available. As a cyclist of seven years in Bangkok and having been knocked off my bicycle on Sukhumvit Road by a careless bus driver and desiring to survive, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) Cyclists are essentially pedestrians and should not be sharing any road with motor vehicles any more than a pedestrian would

2) The sidewalks/footpaths should be utilized by cyclists as much as possible and streets with motor vehicles should be avoided

3) If a street is used, particularly with high-speed traffic it should be done with extreme caution and, ideally, when

there aren't any motor vehicles approaching.

4) I have found the sidewalks/footpaths to be 99% available traversable by bicycle - my travel time is increased, but what is the alternative?

5) I've cut my handlebars back to 20 inches and recently acquired a bike with 17-inch handlebars to support sidewalk travel.

"And the question now is, do we really need a bike lane in Chatuchak? "I don't think we should have a bike lane in Chatuchak. The road is already narrow. And there are not that many cyclists."

Using this logic, wheelchair-friendly facilities and handicapped parking should not exist because there are "not that many" wheelchair-bound and handicapped people, right? Agreed, that the relative dearth of cyclists in Bangkok does not seem to justify separate paths, but nor does the existence of paths justify their being commandeered by vendors and car parking.

You really couldn't cycle there now. It's too dangerous. The chances of a shopper/vendor stepping out in front of you are too great.

The same can be said for footpaths - I won't ride on footpaths because I don't want to inure a pedestrian.

Seven years of riding on roads and sidewalks/footpaths in Bangkok and never hit a pedestrian. The trick is to take extreme care when around pedestrians and/or give them a wide birth. If seemly, get off the bike and walk it or resort to the road temporarily. I followed a Thai kid one day on a dangerous and fast section of Sukhumvit who was expert at transitioning from sidewalk to road alternatively to avoid unsafe or slow transit situations on either.

Remember, my current survivalist cycling position is that being on a bicycle you are still essentially a pedestrian and, if you've got your act together, you are much more alert and aware than a pedestrian without a bicycle and you probably aren't distracted with your smart phone or some such as they often are. Also, as a cyclist on a sidewalk/footpath, you are not obligated to travel at any faster than walking speed nor are you obligated to ride it (you can walk it if the sidewalk/footpath situation so dictates).

Sure, I use the roads, but these days I use them sparingly and try use them when there are no oncoming motor vehicles. I have to travel several times daily on one of most dangerous roads in the Asoke area where even the sidewalks don't exist or are unusable.

Your alternative is to mix it up with motor vehicles on the road and risk a trip to the hospital or the morgue.

Do you want to survive your cycling experience? is the bottom line question.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MaxYakov

[theoldgit]

Post flaming other member, and quoted response, removed.

Please keep it civil.

[SOTIRIOS]

...typical blood-sucking mentality......

[Dodgydownunder]

As sure as the sun comes up every morning this was going to happen.

[Mook23]

Biking is only worth mass hysteria when it's bike for dad day... All other days of the year bikers should know their place in society: At the bottom. ? ? ? ? ? ?

Nope, pedestrians are at the bottom. I have the scars (bicycle tread marks) to prove it.

True. I gave up being pedestrian 6 years ago except when running in safe sports stadium.

[WhizBang]

Of course... cycling conceders an elitists sport reserved for the well to do and people with free

time on their hands, while those food sellers are aching a living, so to them. the priorities are

in different order than to the needs of cyclists.....

I hope this was sarcasm because a lot of ordinary and, especially economically-challenged people are on bikes in Bangkok. And there are the bicycle delivery/transport services and tourist bicycle tour groups and any number of uses including (OMG!) exercise.

Either you don't live in Bangkok or aren't out there every day observing the demographic of cyclists in Bangkok as I am (and photographing Bangkok cyclists). There are also people, such as myself, who don't want to be caught in traffic jams or risk getting gouged by taxis and Tuk-Tuks and see the bicycle as a very convenient and viable alternative (if one has evolved the best techniques and equipment).

As I stated in another post, cyclists are essentially pedestrians. Sure cyclists are capable of fairly high speeds and can share the road with motor vehicles but this is "risky business" - just as it is for pedestrians to walk in the streets (which I see a lot of in Bangkok, especially when the vendors and their customers have commandeered the sidwalks/footpaths).

No, cyclists are NOT pedestrians. A bicycle is a vehicle and as such has no place on a sidewalk. Bicycles, like motorcycles, should be on the road.

I would also add that Bangkok, indeed Thailand, is NOT bicycle friendly. So as a cyclist YOU accept and take the risks associated with cycling ON THE ROADS.

[tuanku]

[sanukjim]

Our university spent millions of baht last year to set up bike lines everywhere on a 50,000-student body campus; widening roads in some places, re-aligning medians and traffic lanes, painting all bike lanes a bright color, warning signs everywhere. They bought thousands of bicycles for student use using a check-out system. The school, shortly after, was voted a "Green Campus" university.

One year later--same, same. Everywhere, the bike lanes have become the new parking lots and vendor territory. Impossible to safely bike around the campus.

No enforcement.

The money spent by your university was actually "false money outlay".If the true estimate of the cost of bike lanes was several millions of baht then they over estimated by several millions of baht to line their pockets and buy new Mercedes so they could care less if the new "bike lanes" are used or not. TIT

[Fookhaht]

Our university spent millions of baht last year to set up bike lines everywhere on a 50,000-student body campus; widening roads in some places, re-aligning medians and traffic lanes, painting all bike lanes a bright color, warning signs everywhere. They bought thousands of bicycles for student use using a check-out system. The school, shortly after, was voted a "Green Campus" university.

One year later--same, same. Everywhere, the bike lanes have become the new parking lots and vendor territory. Impossible to safely bike around the campus.

No enforcement.

The money spent by your university was actually "false money outlay".If the true estimate of the cost of bike lanes was several millions of baht then they over estimated by several millions of baht to line their pockets and buy new Mercedes so they could care less if the new "bike lanes" are used or not. TIT

Bikes alone: Three thousand bicycles @ 2000B each.

You do the math, Sherlock.

But, as your conspiracy theory so subtly implied, there was undoubtedly something in it for the instigators of the scheme...

Edited May 4, 2016 by Fookhaht

[wabothai]

Vendors should be kicked out, where are the police

The mentality of a purposely dumbed down populace.

Kind of like the blunt disobedience. It's like trying to hot a fly, it will come back.

[Lupatria]

The general thinks- the public does...

[MaxYakov]

Of course... cycling conceders an elitists sport reserved for the well to do and people with free

time on their hands, while those food sellers are aching a living, so to them. the priorities are

in different order than to the needs of cyclists.....

I hope this was sarcasm because a lot of ordinary and, especially economically-challenged people are on bikes in Bangkok. And there are the bicycle delivery/transport services and tourist bicycle tour groups and any number of uses including (OMG!) exercise.

Either you don't live in Bangkok or aren't out there every day observing the demographic of cyclists in Bangkok as I am (and photographing Bangkok cyclists). There are also people, such as myself, who don't want to be caught in traffic jams or risk getting gouged by taxis and Tuk-Tuks and see the bicycle as a very convenient and viable alternative (if one has evolved the best techniques and equipment).

As I stated in another post, cyclists are essentially pedestrians. Sure cyclists are capable of fairly high speeds and can share the road with motor vehicles but this is "risky business" - just as it is for pedestrians to walk in the streets (which I see a lot of in Bangkok, especially when the vendors and their customers have commandeered the sidwalks/footpaths).

No, cyclists are NOT pedestrians. A bicycle is a vehicle and as such has no place on a sidewalk. Bicycles, like motorcycles, should be on the road.

I would also add that Bangkok, indeed Thailand, is NOT bicycle friendly. So as a cyclist YOU accept and take the risks associated with cycling ON THE ROADS.

I said that cyclists were "essentially pedestrians". This is because unmotorized bicycles cannot match the speed of motor vehicles on the road and, because of this alone, become hazards to both themselves and motor vehicles. Also they don't have much more crash protection than a pedestrian. Also, unless they have lights, they are not much more visible than pedestrians. They are also capable of operating at walking speed or being walked and, in fact, become pedestrians.

Since bicycles are not "motor vehicles" they are and should be allowed on sidewalks/footpaths - until Thailand can provide a safe environment for cyclists. That's not going to happen in our lifetimes, but even if it did, bicycles should be allowed on sidewalks if being walked at a minimum.

By your definition, hover boards and push scooters are also "vehicles" and should be allowed on the road.

Sure, bicycles they can be operated as a motor vehicle at speeds approaching motor vehicle speeds, but they cannot be operated safely with high-speed motor vehicles in close proximity.

Also, many of the sidewalks in Bangkok are actually marked for bicycle use. Based on this and for reasons of safety, I've taken this position:

Since Thailand cannot provide safe separation between between motor vehicles and cyclists, I've decided to utilize the sidewalks for both my safety and that of motor vehicles operators.

I don't risk the safety of pedestrians in using sidewalks/footpaths because I don't operate at high speeds when pedestrians are present and avoid crowded sidewalks altogether or walk the bike. Also a bicycle is highly maneuverable and can stop very rapidly. Actually, I find using the sidewalks very demanding and at times frustrating but, in my view, it beats the alternative of potentially a stay in the Bumrungrad Hotel or a permanent one to a Buddhist crematorium.

I would rather use the roads for better transit time and less hassle, but when push comes to shove, my bottom line is safety. We should all know by now what the statistics are for motor vehicle injury and fatalities in Thailand. It took me seven years of cycling in Bangkok and being hit by a bus that made a negligent lane change to make me very aware of the realities of the roads of Thailand.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MaxYakov

[Morakot]

How sad!

[mesterm]

"Screw you all, I gotta sell my pork sausages."

[Nicolas32]

As per usual Thais thinking about themselves

Edited May 4, 2016 by Nicolas32

[MaxYakov]

Good one, but it would just as likely be the actual bicycle rather than a drawing or outline of it!

I've actually seen three downed motorbikes and a few cars outlined in silver or white spray paint on my Soi in the last six months or so. I also had a young motorbike rider take severe injuries when trying to pass a turning car at high speed about ten meters from where I was. He lost his helmet with the initial impact and then proceeded to fly through the air, hitting his unprotected head on a concrete parking lot entrance (that the car was turning into). The traffic had been flagged to stop from the opposite direction, but the kid misread the situation.

If the motorbike had not hit the car, I would have been the next target for the young lad who was in a hurry to pass a line of cars which resulted in a hurry to go to the hospital.

I have yet to see an outlined bicycle on the road (hard to tell it from a motorbike I suppose), but I'm doing everything I can to ensure that it won't be one of my bikes.

My Soi is extremely dangerous for everyone on it or even near it.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MaxYakov

[jacko45k]

If the road is already narrow, perhaps the bike lane,ie the vendors needs to be removed.

Good idea, wrong country.

[natway09]

I really like this story. It epitomizes If not Thailand, certainly Bangkok.

Living on a small "one way" street with a recently completed footpath ,

makes absolutely no impression on Thais, they drive cars down the wrong way, park directly under large no parking signs,

& now drive motorbikes both ways on the footpath. Even the boys in brown come up the wrong way.

Selfish, selfish & selfish

[CantSpell]

Waiting for new announcement after final assessment:

Chatuchak needs 3 lanes..

- Cyclist lane

- Food vendor lane

- Pedestrian lane....

Should do a 44 and open a new 1 Trillion budget

[Dagnabbit]

"BANGKOK: -- It looks like cyclists have lost the chance to [exclusively] use the brand-new bike lane at JJ market and Suan Rod Fai after street vendors, tuk-tuks and cars moved in and claimed the bicycle lane last month."

From the provided photo, it appears there is a narrow path remaining between the concrete barriers and the vendors. Additionally, there appears to be a relatively open sidewalk/footpath still available. As a cyclist of seven years in Bangkok and having been knocked off my bicycle on Sukhumvit Road by a careless bus driver and desiring to survive, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) Cyclists are essentially pedestrians and should not be sharing any road with motor vehicles any more than a pedestrian would

2) The sidewalks/footpaths should be utilized by cyclists as much as possible and streets with motor vehicles should be avoided

3) If a street is used, particularly with high-speed traffic it should be done with extreme caution and, ideally, when

there aren't any motor vehicles approaching.

4) I have found the sidewalks/footpaths to be 99% available traversable by bicycle - my travel time is increased, but what is the alternative?

5) I've cut my handlebars back to 20 inches and recently acquired a bike with 17-inch handlebars to support sidewalk travel.

"And the question now is, do we really need a bike lane in Chatuchak? "I don't think we should have a bike lane in Chatuchak. The road is already narrow. And there are not that many cyclists."

Using this logic, wheelchair-friendly facilities and handicapped parking should not exist because there are "not that many" wheelchair-bound and handicapped people, right? Agreed, that the relative dearth of cyclists in Bangkok does not seem to justify separate paths, but nor does the existence of paths justify their being commandeered by vendors and car parking.

You really couldn't cycle there now. It's too dangerous. The chances of a shopper/vendor stepping out in front of you are too great.

The same can be said for footpaths - I won't ride on footpaths because I don't want to inure a pedestrian.

Seven years of riding on roads and sidewalks/footpaths in Bangkok and never hit a pedestrian. The trick is to take extreme care when around pedestrians and/or give them a wide birth. If seemly, get off the bike and walk it or resort to the road temporarily. I followed a Thai kid one day on a dangerous and fast section of Sukhumvit who was expert at transitioning from sidewalk to road alternatively to avoid unsafe or slow transit situations on either.

Remember, my current survivalist cycling position is that being on a bicycle you are still essentially a pedestrian and, if you've got your act together, you are much more alert and aware than a pedestrian without a bicycle and you probably aren't distracted with your smart phone or some such as they often are. Also, as a cyclist on a sidewalk/footpath, you are not obligated to travel at any faster than walking speed nor are you obligated to ride it (you can walk it if the sidewalk/footpath situation so dictates).

Sure, I use the roads, but these days I use them sparingly and try use them when there are no oncoming motor vehicles. I have to travel several times daily on one of most dangerous roads in the Asoke area where even the sidewalks don't exist or are unusable.

Your alternative is to mix it up with motor vehicles on the road and risk a trip to the hospital or the morgue.

Do you want to survive your cycling experience? is the bottom line question.

What you describe is not cycling. It's going walking pace on a bicycle.

Most reasonably fit cyclists on a decent bike can maintain a speed of 25-30km/h. This is what cycling is and this is what cycling lanes are for. There is no point cycling at 7km/h.

A cycling lane is a place where you can ride in safety. That means not having a market stall on it where someone will step out in front of you.

I never cycle on sidewalks here. It's roads, cycle lanes, bike tracks and off road.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[PremiumLane]

A story like this is catnip to the TV regulars:

[kingalfred]

Authorities are pathetic at clearing out vendors from illegal pitches. Incapable of reform!

[Scouse Twoccer]

Our university spent millions of baht last year to set up bike lines everywhere on a 50,000-student body campus; widening roads in some places, re-aligning medians and traffic lanes, painting all bike lanes a bright color, warning signs everywhere. They bought thousands of bicycles for student use using a check-out system. The school, shortly after, was voted a "Green Campus" university.

One year later--same, same. Everywhere, the bike lanes have become the new parking lots and vendor territory. Impossible to safely bike around the campus.

No enforcement.

The only enforcement that there would be in a private university would be from the university authorities, so if there is no enforcement the assumption would have to be that the university is ok with the situation and that would be their privilege.

[Scouse Twoccer]

"And the question now is, do we really need a bike lane in Chatuchak? "I don't think we should have a bike lane in Chatuchak. The road is already narrow. And there are not that many cyclists."

Using this logic, wheelchair-friendly facilities and handicapped parking should not exist because there are "not that many" wheelchair-bound and handicapped people, right?

No, what you said is completely illogical, unless you're the sort that considers cyclists as important as the disabled.

[NoshowJones]

Vendors should be kicked out, where are the police

Collecting their brown envelopes.

[Fookhaht]

Our university spent millions of baht last year to set up bike lines everywhere on a 50,000-student body campus; widening roads in some places, re-aligning medians and traffic lanes, painting all bike lanes a bright color, warning signs everywhere. They bought thousands of bicycles for student use using a check-out system. The school, shortly after, was voted a "Green Campus" university.

One year later--same, same. Everywhere, the bike lanes have become the new parking lots and vendor territory. Impossible to safely bike around the campus.

No enforcement.

The only enforcement that there would be in a private university would be from the university authorities, so if there is no enforcement the assumption would have to be that the university is ok with the situation and that would be their privilege.

It's a government university. Your tax dollars (baht) at work, dude.

Students' tuition money "at work."

It's NOT their "privilege" and to think so is arrogant.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Tomtomtom69]

Of course... cycling conceders an elitists sport reserved for the well to do and people with free

time on their hands, while those food sellers are aching a living, so to them. the priorities are

in different order than to the needs of cyclists.....

I hope this was sarcasm because a lot of ordinary and, especially economically-challenged people are on bikes in Bangkok. And there are the bicycle delivery/transport services and tourist bicycle tour groups and any number of uses including (OMG!) exercise.

Either you don't live in Bangkok or aren't out there every day observing the demographic of cyclists in Bangkok as I am (and photographing Bangkok cyclists). There are also people, such as myself, who don't want to be caught in traffic jams or risk getting gouged by taxis and Tuk-Tuks and see the bicycle as a very convenient and viable alternative (if one has evolved the best techniques and equipment).

As I stated in another post, cyclists are essentially pedestrians. Sure cyclists are capable of fairly high speeds and can share the road with motor vehicles but this is "risky business" - just as it is for pedestrians to walk in the streets (which I see a lot of in Bangkok, especially when the vendors and their customers have commandeered the sidwalks/footpaths).

No, cyclists are NOT pedestrians. A bicycle is a vehicle and as such has no place on a sidewalk. Bicycles, like motorcycles, should be on the road.

I would also add that Bangkok, indeed Thailand, is NOT bicycle friendly. So as a cyclist YOU accept and take the risks associated with cycling ON THE ROADS.

I said that cyclists were "essentially pedestrians". This is because unmotorized bicycles cannot match the speed of motor vehicles on the road and, because of this alone, become hazards to both themselves and motor vehicles. Also they don't have much more crash protection than a pedestrian. Also, unless they have lights, they are not much more visible than pedestrians. They are also capable of operating at walking speed or being walked and, in fact, become pedestrians.

Since bicycles are not "motor vehicles" they are and should be allowed on sidewalks/footpaths - until Thailand can provide a safe environment for cyclists. That's not going to happen in our lifetimes, but even if it did, bicycles should be allowed on sidewalks if being walked at a minimum.

By your definition, hover boards and push scooters are also "vehicles" and should be allowed on the road.

Sure, bicycles they can be operated as a motor vehicle at speeds approaching motor vehicle speeds, but they cannot be operated safely with high-speed motor vehicles in close proximity.

Also, many of the sidewalks in Bangkok are actually marked for bicycle use. Based on this and for reasons of safety, I've taken this position:

Since Thailand cannot provide safe separation between between motor vehicles and cyclists, I've decided to utilize the sidewalks for both my safety and that of motor vehicles operators.

I don't risk the safety of pedestrians in using sidewalks/footpaths because I don't operate at high speeds when pedestrians are present and avoid crowded sidewalks altogether or walk the bike. Also a bicycle is highly maneuverable and can stop very rapidly. Actually, I find using the sidewalks very demanding and at times frustrating but, in my view, it beats the alternative of potentially a stay in the Bumrungrad Hotel or a permanent one to a Buddhist crematorium.

I would rather use the roads for better transit time and less hassle, but when push comes to shove, my bottom line is safety. We should all know by now what the statistics are for motor vehicle injury and fatalities in Thailand. It took me seven years of cycling in Bangkok and being hit by a bus that made a negligent lane change to make me very aware of the realities of the roads of Thailand.

Who says bicycles AREN'T allowed on sidewalks/footpaths? They are allowed just as much as motorcycles/scooters are and these same motorcycles/scooters who alternate between the footpaths (that only westerners use anyway) and driving along the curb on the wrong side of the road.

A bicycle on the footpath is much less of an issue than a motorcycle going the wrong way down a one way street. Of course riding a bicycle on a footpath full of street vendors like say in the Nana area wouldn't make much sense, you just get on the road, but elsewhere where you have little in your way like say Sathorn road, it's better to stick to the footpath.

[NoshowJones]

Vendors should be kicked out, where are the police

Busy arresting people with no shirts on

and so they should be, male people that is.