Yingluck stands trial for rice scheme in Supreme Court

[sjaak327]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

and yet the majority of Thais still prefer them to all of the other alternatives. What does that tell you? Better the devil you know maybe?

No.. It confirms what we already know... The majority of Thai people are extremely poor and worry about food on the table TODAY... How I'm going to pay for it I will maybe worry about next week...

Few Thai people can comprehend the sum the was stolen by this one individual... So it's irrelevant to them...

And this RPP 500 billion is just another drop in the ocean...

Like them or not... Justice must be seen to be done...

Justice ? Justice isn't being done in Thailand. Never has and never will. Meanwhile, the current rulers, who don't have any legitimacy and came to power by the thread of violence, have an amnesty for past and future crimes.

The 500 billion "loss' will amount to nothing what the current rulers are throwing away, and other then Yingluck, they do not have a mandate from the Thai electorate.

Edited May 13, 2016 by sjaak327

[RWA]

"She said as now many countries have voiced their concern about human rights and right of free expression in the country, she asked that the military junta allows such free expression of opinions."

Does this have anything to do with her being able to provide her own explanation and documentation in court regarding her failed RPPS ?

As flawed as she is, she was just standing up to your loving junta's crack down on free speech and its use of intimidation.

she aint capable of "standing up" to anything ...

(but she can cry nicely and ask for patience and understanding)

she's only and exclusively voicing out her embarrassing, idiotic bro

(if she's lucky enough = preferably 3x, not to screw it up when reading up the notes)

[tbthailand]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

Fair or foul = right or wrong ? The alternatives to the Shinawatra's are far less appealing.

We have those alternatives now and they have destroyed the country and crushed all semblance of human rights in 2 short years. And they are rigging the system to keep themselves in control for the next 20+ years.

Fair or foul? Some people like DaddyWarbucks don't seem to have much respect for justice... of course neither does the junta.

[tbthailand]

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

and yet the majority of Thais still prefer them to all of the other alternatives. What does that tell you? Better the devil you know maybe?

No.. It confirms what we already know... The majority of Thai people are extremely poor and worry about food on the table TODAY... How I'm going to pay for it I will maybe worry about next week...

Few Thai people can comprehend the sum the was stolen by this one individual... So it's irrelevant to them...

And this RPP 500 billion is just another drop in the ocean...

Like them or not... Justice must be seen to be done...

wow... Could you be more condescending towards the Thais?

probably not, but he could always give it another go.

but maybe next time he can figure out the facts, a government subsidy is not stealing from the Thai people. In fact, the economy in Isaan got a boast from the program and tanked after it. It may not have been well run, but it did help the economy here, ... which was one of the goals as I recall.

[tbthailand]

Today’s hearing saw two state witnesses testifying the court about her in the rice scheme which inflicted damages of over 500 billion baht to the state.

no bias built into that reporting...

[RWA]

"She said as now many countries have voiced their concern about human rights and right of free expression in the country, she asked that the military junta allows such free expression of opinions."

Does this have anything to do with her being able to provide her own explanation and documentation in court regarding her failed RPPS ?

No, but she is a human being, and should therefore be free to express her opinion. An opinion I and many others share.

THAT's ridiculous, .... LOL

HER opinion?

like about WHAT for example?!!

a new fashion purse, shoes, jewelry, shopping mall, noodle soup stall, .... WHAT else?

that little smart ass speech she dropped there was written by her bro servants ...

remember, she managed to put herself above a common human beings - she went to attend the trial for her political and social duty negligence!

(she can try "her opinions" on the judges then)

[sjaak327]

"She said as now many countries have voiced their concern about human rights and right of free expression in the country, she asked that the military junta allows such free expression of opinions."

Does this have anything to do with her being able to provide her own explanation and documentation in court regarding her failed RPPS ?

No, but she is a human being, and should therefore be free to express her opinion. An opinion I and many others share.

THAT's ridiculous, .... LOL

HER opinion?

like about WHAT for example?!!

a new fashion purse, shoes, jewelry, shopping mall, noodle soup stall, .... WHAT else?

that little smart ass speech she dropped there was written by her bro servants ...

remember, she managed to put herself above a common human beings - she went to attend the trial for her political and social duty negligence!

(she can try "her opinions" on the judges then)

I think there is only one thing ridiculous and that is your post.

[MZurf]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

and yet the majority of Thais still prefer them to all of the other alternatives. What does that tell you? Better the devil you know maybe?

What majority of Thais would those be?

Obviously you have done a survey of perhaps 1 or 10,000 Thais in all levels of Thai society, in ALL the provinces asking them if they prefer the Shinawatras' or the present government.

Could you please give us the results of that survey and the questions that you asked? I am sure that everyone will accept the results.

Of course if you haven't actually done a recent survey yourself then how do you know that what you say is correct?

If you are using some other survey could you post the links to it please.

Clearly Alwyn is wrong. The "PM" does after all enjoy a 99.3 % approval rating so an election is just a waste of money!

[phoenixdoglover]

Today’s hearing saw two state witnesses testifying the court about her in the rice scheme which inflicted damages of over 500 billion baht to the state.

no bias built into that reporting...

Exactly.

It is an article of faith for many that there have been damages to the State of 500, 600, 800 billion baht.

On several occasions, I have asked for links to any sort of accounting for those very large numbers; perhaps it is just my wishful thinking that the prosecution of Yingluck would have figured out the basis for the number before proceeding with the case. Alas, the numbers appear to be magically preordained. Having been reported by NACC as a gross figure, they must be right.

I have done my own calculations. I can trace a loss of 200 to 250 billion to the market fluctuation that occurred during the program period, in which India nicely flooded the market with rice, and Thailand was literally left holding a very large bag of overpriced rice.

I suppose the simple definition of loss is (money out) - (money in).

This ignores the stimulative effect of the money which found its way to farmers or the widely mentioned middle men. We can assume most of this money got circulated in the economy somehow, rather than being stashed in coffee cans somewhere. So clearly there was a stimulative spending benefit for Thailand (with typical multipliers in the range of 0.5 to 1.5, this figure could be very large). And the current regime obviously believes in that same stimulative effect, given their multiple programs for rice and rubber farmers. So an accounting of the rice scheme should at least have a footnote about that.

I guess balance sheet thinking will not be permitted. Supreme Court Justice, with no avenue for appeal, must be served, and before the next general election.

Edited May 13, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[tbthailand]

Today’s hearing saw two state witnesses testifying the court about her in the rice scheme which inflicted damages of over 500 billion baht to the state.

no bias built into that reporting...

Exactly.

It is an article of faith for many that there have been damages to the State of 500, 600, 800 billion baht.

On several occasions, I have asked for links to any sort of accounting for those very large numbers; perhaps it is just my wishful thinking that the prosecution of Yingluck would have figured out the basis for the number before proceeding with the case. Alas, the numbers appear to be magically preordained. Having been reported by NACC as a gross figure, they must be right.

I have done my own calculations. I can trace a loss of 200 to 250 billion to the market fluctuation that occurred during the program period, in which India nicely flooded the market with rice, and Thailand was literally left holding a very large bag of overpriced rice.

I suppose the simple definition of loss is (money out) - (money in).

This ignores the stimulative effect of the money which found its way to farmers or the widely mentioned middle men. We can assume most of this money got circulated in the economy somehow, rather than being stashed in coffee cans somewhere. So clearly there was a stimulative spending benefit for Thailand (with typical multipliers in the range of 0.5 to 1.5, this figure could be very large). And the current regime obviously believes in that same stimulative effect, given their multiple programs for rice and rubber farmers. So an accounting of the rice scheme should at least have a footnote about that.

I guess balance sheet thinking will not be permitted. Supreme Court Justice, with no avenue for appeal, must be served, and before the next general election.

populist policies from our opponents; bad, in fact, criminal.

populist policies from us: not only good, but not called "populist"...

[SOTIRIOS]

...being tried for bilking a country of hundreds of billions...if not trillions.....has nothing to do with human rights last I checked.....

[elgordo38]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

Yes, if they get rid of the Shins all corruption and nepotism will end!

Sounds like another newbie. All corruption and nepotism will end? Only in your dreams.

[candide]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

and yet the majority of Thais still prefer them to all of the other alternatives. What does that tell you? Better the devil you know maybe?

Don't let the truth, ie an actual survey, get in the way of your BS.

10 May - News

The Democrat Party is more popular than the Pheu Thai Party, according to the latest opinion survey by the Bangkok Poll. Out of 1,014 people polled nationwide, 22% said they support the Democrat Party,...Followed by 19% support for PTP

Obviously the junta doesn't believe this poll, as they spend a lot of energy trying to lower the influence of the PTP and the shins.

[NCFC]

Well charges of murder were dropped against Abhisit and Suthep on the basis that they were doing their job as Prime Minister and Deputy PM and not as individuals. So I expect these rice charges will be dropped anytime soon, on the same basis.... won't they?

[Kabula]

With the recent droughts affecting rice production in the surrounding rice bearing countries the Thai Rice storage scheme is working as planned! The value of the rice has increased dramatically and much of it has been sold and what remains is increasing in value so I doubt the ex PM will be convicted over the rice scheme.

Prior to the drought and her charges, the other rice bearing countries dropped their rice prices creating a hard rice sell for Thailand and a huge storage problem. The lack of cash flow and the potential financial disaster was the reason for her charges.

[rubl]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

Fair or foul - as long as they bring down the Shinawatra clan.

This corrupt family has been a plague on Thailand.

Fair or foul = right or wrong ? The alternatives to the Shinawatra's are far less appealing.

We have those alternatives now and they have destroyed the country and crushed all semblance of human rights in 2 short years. And they are rigging the system to keep themselves in control for the next 20+ years.

Fair or foul? Some people like DaddyWarbucks don't seem to have much respect for justice... of course neither does the junta.

Country destroyed? I must have missed something. Just woke up and all still seems unchanged though.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck is still getting lots of time to explain her RPPs to the Supreme court.

[rubl]

No.. It confirms what we already know... The majority of Thai people are extremely poor and worry about food on the table TODAY... How I'm going to pay for it I will maybe worry about next week...

Few Thai people can comprehend the sum the was stolen by this one individual... So it's irrelevant to them...

And this RPP 500 billion is just another drop in the ocean...

Like them or not... Justice must be seen to be done...

wow... Could you be more condescending towards the Thais?

probably not, but he could always give it another go.

but maybe next time he can figure out the facts, a government subsidy is not stealing from the Thai people. In fact, the economy in Isaan got a boast from the program and tanked after it. It may not have been well run, but it did help the economy here, ... which was one of the goals as I recall.

Nice try tbthailand, but here we're discussion the 'self-financing' RPPs not a subsidy with clear reservations in the National Budget. A 'self-financing' scam which caused 500++ billion Baht losses. A voter buying exercise with Pheu Thai having stated to have paid out 870,018 million baht to 1.4 million rice farming families (out of 3.7m they earlier said to have aimed at). Seems the poor farmers in Isaan are still poor, but a few 'well deserving' others make up for that and spend enough to let some satang trickle down.

Now if only Ms. Yingluck had been more open about the 'self-financing' aspects and the accounting of the RPPS. She has gone on television and in parliament to state to be in charge, she always talked a lot how here government was taking care of corruption and being responsible. Well, accountability goes with it and in court she gets the chance to explain.

Edited May 13, 2016 by rubl

[rubl]

Today’s hearing saw two state witnesses testifying the court about her in the rice scheme which inflicted damages of over 500 billion baht to the state.

no bias built into that reporting...

Exactly.

It is an article of faith for many that there have been damages to the State of 500, 600, 800 billion baht.

On several occasions, I have asked for links to any sort of accounting for those very large numbers; perhaps it is just my wishful thinking that the prosecution of Yingluck would have figured out the basis for the number before proceeding with the case. Alas, the numbers appear to be magically preordained. Having been reported by NACC as a gross figure, they must be right.

I have done my own calculations. I can trace a loss of 200 to 250 billion to the market fluctuation that occurred during the program period, in which India nicely flooded the market with rice, and Thailand was literally left holding a very large bag of overpriced rice.

I suppose the simple definition of loss is (money out) - (money in).

This ignores the stimulative effect of the money which found its way to farmers or the widely mentioned middle men. We can assume most of this money got circulated in the economy somehow, rather than being stashed in coffee cans somewhere. So clearly there was a stimulative spending benefit for Thailand (with typical multipliers in the range of 0.5 to 1.5, this figure could be very large). And the current regime obviously believes in that same stimulative effect, given their multiple programs for rice and rubber farmers. So an accounting of the rice scheme should at least have a footnote about that.

I guess balance sheet thinking will not be permitted. Supreme Court Justice, with no avenue for appeal, must be served, and before the next general election.

populist policies from our opponents; bad, in fact, criminal.

populist policies from us: not only good, but not called "populist"...

The usual deflection from a 'self-financing' scheme gone wrong.

Balance sheet? Pheu thai stated to have paid 870,018 million baht directly to 1.4m rice farming families after they had stated that their wonderfull scam aimed at 3.7 million rice farming families which represented 23% of the Thai population. No one can tell how many %% those 1.4m reached represent. No balance sheet, only conflicting figures from Pheu Thai and Ms. Yingluck's government.

It takes a court case to try to get to the details and it takes a court case to get Shinawatra defenders into a frenzy again with dis-information.

[rubl]

Today’s hearing saw two state witnesses testifying the court about her in the rice scheme which inflicted damages of over 500 billion baht to the state.

no bias built into that reporting...

The truth will set you free, my dear tbthailand.

Seven years a 107 billion Baht reservation in the National Budget to pay back the BAAC. No bias in that, just the results of a 'self-financing' scheme.

[rubl]

Well charges of murder were dropped against Abhisit and Suthep on the basis that they were doing their job as Prime Minister and Deputy PM and not as individuals. So I expect these rice charges will be dropped anytime soon, on the same basis.... won't they?

Ms. Yingluck in all her charming openness stated to be in charge, to have hand-picked her own cabinet and to stand fully behind her 'self-financing' RPPS. Furthermore she went on record with 'taking special care of corruption' and 'having a responsible government'.

Now she's asked to also show the accountability which goes with it.

Edited May 14, 2016 by rubl

[yellowboat]

"She said as now many countries have voiced their concern about human rights and right of free expression in the country, she asked that the military junta allows such free expression of opinions."

Does this have anything to do with her being able to provide her own explanation and documentation in court regarding her failed RPPS ?

As flawed as she is, she was just standing up to your loving junta's crack down on free speech and its use of intimidation.

Much more trying to suggest that she's an innocent victim I think. Remember democracy died the day she was asked to show the responsibility which goes with "I'm in charge" ?

1. Even less than nimble minds would agree that democracy dies when armed men over through an elected government.

2. Your sheer hatred for her is obvious and renders your arguments biased and unfair. Her words are that of a Thai Citizen and deposed Prime Minister only. You are warping her words to suit your agenda and it is obvious.

Have no fear she will probably be punished either way.

[rubl]

"She said as now many countries have voiced their concern about human rights and right of free expression in the country, she asked that the military junta allows such free expression of opinions."

Does this have anything to do with her being able to provide her own explanation and documentation in court regarding her failed RPPS ?

As flawed as she is, she was just standing up to your loving junta's crack down on free speech and its use of intimidation.

Much more trying to suggest that she's an innocent victim I think. Remember democracy died the day she was asked to show the responsibility which goes with "I'm in charge" ?

1. Even less than nimble minds would agree that democracy dies when armed men over through an elected government.

2. Your sheer hatred for her is obvious and renders your arguments biased and unfair. Her words are that of a Thai Citizen and deposed Prime Minister only. You are warping her words to suit your agenda and it is obvious.

Have no fear she will probably be punished either way.

Oh come on yellowboat.

'hatred' ? You don't like the truth about the mishandling of the RPPS or you don't agree with given Ms. Yingluck a chance to defend herself?

As for the usual distraction., Ms. Yingluck referred to a dying democracy in relation to having been asked to show accountability. Some posters seem to agree that she's too nice to need to be accountable.

Edited May 14, 2016 by rubl

[halloween]

probably not, but he could always give it another go.

but maybe next time he can figure out the facts, a government subsidy is not stealing from the Thai people. In fact, the economy in Isaan got a boast from the program and tanked after it. It may not have been well run, but it did help the economy here, ... which was one of the goals as I recall.

So it should have been allowed to continue, then. As long as you and your mates in Isaan are doing all right, who cares about the rest of the country, or how it will be financed, or what to do with the mountains of rice. Have I got the local sentiment right?

[yellowboat]

Oh come on yellowboat.

'hatred' ? You don't like the truth about the mishandling of the RPPS or you don't agree with given Ms. Yingluck a chance to defend herself?

As for the usual distraction., Ms. Yingluck referred to a dying democracy in relation to having been asked to show accountability. Some posters seem to agree that she's too nice to need to be accountable.

This is where your bind hatred gets you into trouble. The truth is the RPPS should have never even been discussed let alone executed. Governments should not get in the way of a free market. She and her government did exactly that. Your mentioning that it was "mishandled" only lends credibility to the RPPS and that you favor such schemes. It should have never even come to be.

The question is where does her guilt lay and will that will she be judged fairly ?

She needs to be held accountable to the failed scheme, but she will be held accountable by a government that is and never will be accountable. That alone casts dubious shadows on her's and others plight at this time.

Your famous tirades against Yingluck will no longer be entertained. You are confused and need a more worthy cause to apply your energies.

[halloween]

Oh come on yellowboat.

'hatred' ? You don't like the truth about the mishandling of the RPPS or you don't agree with given Ms. Yingluck a chance to defend herself?

As for the usual distraction., Ms. Yingluck referred to a dying democracy in relation to having been asked to show accountability. Some posters seem to agree that she's too nice to need to be accountable.

This is where your bind hatred gets you into trouble. The truth is the RPPS should have never even been discussed let alone executed. Governments should not get in the way of a free market. She and her government did exactly that. Your mentioning that it was "mishandled" only lends credibility to the RPPS and that you favor such schemes. It should have never even come to be.

The question is where does her guilt lay and will that will she be judged fairly ?

She needs to be held accountable to the failed scheme, but she will be held accountable by a government that is and never will be accountable. That alone casts dubious shadows on her's and others plight at this time.

Your famous tirades against Yingluck will no longer be entertained. You are confused and need a more worthy cause to apply your energies.

You seem confused. The rice scam was Thaksin's concept, initiated under his government, re-instated by his proxy, and voted for by MPs accepting bribes from him. His sister willingly claimed responsibility for it, and is now being held to account.

That sound you hear is chickens coming home to roost.

[yellowboat]

Oh come on yellowboat.

'hatred' ? You don't like the truth about the mishandling of the RPPS or you don't agree with given Ms. Yingluck a chance to defend herself?

As for the usual distraction., Ms. Yingluck referred to a dying democracy in relation to having been asked to show accountability. Some posters seem to agree that she's too nice to need to be accountable.

This is where your bind hatred gets you into trouble. The truth is the RPPS should have never even been discussed let alone executed. Governments should not get in the way of a free market. She and her government did exactly that. Your mentioning that it was "mishandled" only lends credibility to the RPPS and that you favor such schemes. It should have never even come to be.

The question is where does her guilt lay and will that will she be judged fairly ?

She needs to be held accountable to the failed scheme, but she will be held accountable by a government that is and never will be accountable. That alone casts dubious shadows on her's and others plight at this time.

Your famous tirades against Yingluck will no longer be entertained. You are confused and need a more worthy cause to apply your energies.

You seem confused. The rice scam was Thaksin's concept, initiated under his government, re-instated by his proxy, and voted for by MPs accepting bribes from him. His sister willingly claimed responsibility for it, and is now being held to account.

That sound you hear is chickens coming home to roost.

Thank you for so eloquently pointing out useless semantics whether true or not. May it bring you great joy. She will be held accountable by the unaccountable, making your chickens home coming far less credible.

[Keesters]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

If she thinks trials should be fair she should have changed the system while she had the chance as PM.

[yellowboat]

Not a great idea, but one wonders if she will get a fair trial.

If she thinks trials should be fair she should have changed the system while she had the chance as PM.

There is some logic to your statement, but that can be said about all of her predecessors as well. including her brother. One would imagine getting the Thai elites to go along with any changes would have been difficult.

[VincentRJ]

In discussions like this, there appears to me to be a complete lack of focus on the initial purpose of the rice scheme.

There is rarely just one single reason or purpose for a particular policy. In the case of the rice scheme, there were a number of 'hoped for' benefits.

(1) The rice farmers would benefit from the higher price paid to them.

(2) The rice farmers, and those in related activities and economies, would appreciate the Yingluck government's policy and would help vote the government back in power. Nothing wrong with that.

(3) The cost of the scheme would be paid for, as a result of generally higher, world-wide prices for rice, since Thailand is a major exporter of rice, and the shortage of supply would drive up prices according to the general economic principle of 'supply and demand'.

The third reason for this scheme is the one which was flawed. Attempting to help a particular group gain greater wealth by artificially raising prices, is not sound economics. I'm reminded of the Oil Cartel of Saudi Arabia, who restricted the supply of oil in order to raise prices.

The Yingluck government appears to have used this as a model. She, and her advisers, should have realised that such a tactic would result in rice growers in other countries increasing production, as a result of any shortage and increase in price.

Failing to take into account this natural, economic response to a higher rice price, as a result of her policy, is her major fault. Isn't she supposed to have a degree in economics?

The main question for me is, how could such a person with a degree in economics, not understand the economic consequences of her rice scheme, considering that we have a 'world economy'?

[aussieinthailand]

Are courts preparing preemptive indictments for governments proposed palm oil pledging scheme? And what became of the rubber support program? Guess that is okay because not corrupt redshirts but rather impeccable Suthep and other junta fans.

Let's not forget the 11 wealthy family's he gave away land to instead of the POOR famers, what's nothing to answer for? you junta fan boy's love to let that one slide but the big one you just play three wise monkeys is suthep admitted that he and the military planed the coup long before it came about.

So you see you few fan boys have back liars and corrupt cheats when the truth is found, NOTHING,,, if you had any integrity at all you would be calling for these blokes that are court out just as hard as you bay for the blood of the Shiz, and when you defend and protest for them you show your true colors.