Lightning strike

[Berty100]

Today, by coincidence of course, received an email from Amazon with a list of broadband lightning surge protectors.

The email account I received the Amazon message is not the same my Thaivisa account is registered.

You wouldn't think Amazon spies on me, would you

You would be amazed (or is that Amazoned).

Tentacles everywhere, even Japanese porn

Why I missed that one ? I prefer that over surge protectors

[Berty100]

Today, by coincidence of course, received an email from Amazon with a list of broadband lightning surge protectors.

The email account I received the Amazon message is not the same my Thaivisa account is registered.

You wouldn't think Amazon spies on me, would you

I expect the list showed some examples...hopefully they actually said "Surge Protector" on the label versus "Isolator" as an Isolator just isolates the RF signal from ground to reduce hum, noise, etc.

Surge Protector Example

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Isolator Example

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They had this one for $6.33

http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-Professional-Grade-Lightning-Protector/dp/B006SP21H6?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref_=pe_790700_193949440_em_1p_0_ti

And a grounding block for $4.74. Does a grounding block work in my case?

http://www.amazon.com/F-pin-Coaxial-Grounding-Single-Female/dp/B001I5610E?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref_=pe_790700_193949440_em_1p_1_ti

[Berty100]

?:

Broadband Cable TV Lightning Surge Protector

Can' t tell you whether is applicable in your case.

Open a thread about lightning protection on TV/internet cables?

If I purchase such a lightning surge protector, can I attach the ground to the earthing cable of the lightning arrester of my transformer or should I use the ground from the breaker box installed below the transformer?

Does it need to be mounted outside where the cable from the company connects to the underground cable on my property, or can it be placed right at the modem?

[Berty100]

Those 2 big power cables that are bundled with the earthing cable, is that allowed so?

Probably not the best installation method, but since you want PEA to assist in your quest ...

I have visited PEA and they are very cooperative, so will visit city hall again in the next few days and see how it turns out.

My contract with BTV ends in 4 months, and I will switch at that point to 3BB, but want to protect the cable anyway for the time left and need some advice.

We have this one, which Khunbenq suggested, but which will cost me about 1500 Baht delivered

http://www.amazon.com/TII-Broadband-Cable-Lightning-Protector/dp/B0016AIYU6

And this one on Ebay, which will cost 472 Baht delivered. Are they the same thing or not?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5GHZ-400W-Coaxial-Lightning-Surge-Protector-With-N-Connector-CA-23RP-/111959617256?hash=item1a11502ee8:g:F~kAAOSwiylXBIEe

I also would like to ask, should this surge protector be installed where the cable goes underground on my property, or better where it enters the building?

Edited May 22, 2016 by Berty100

[Crossy]

Yes, Berty, they look pretty much the same device.

BUT the Lazada one has N connectors, rather than the F connector on the Amazon one, which do you actually need? The normal 'satellite' connector is F.

I would install it a close to your modem as practical with a good solid ground, bash in a rod and use 6mm² or bigger to connect (or follow the instructions with the device if there are any).

I would avoid connecting anything to the PEA earth, it's probably illegal to do so anyway.

[Berty100]

Yes, Berty, they look pretty much the same device.

BUT the Lazada one has N connectors, rather than the F connector on the Amazon one, which do you actually need? The normal 'satellite' connector is F.

I would install it a close to your modem as practical with a good solid ground, bash in a rod and use 6mm² or bigger to connect (or follow the instructions with the device if there are any).

I would avoid connecting anything to the PEA earth, it's probably illegal to do so anyway.

That's a good remark about the N and F connector, as I thought N connector referred to to Neutral connector, so I had to look it up.

Since I intend to cut the cable somewhere in the loft, I assume I can just use any connector that is required, or not?

So in the supposition that N connectors are available everywhere it will not make a difference I guess.

Can I use the earthing cable from the fuse box, as I expect to be able to connect to that one somewhere up there, and that should be 10mm?

By the way, is the one below also suitable?

http://www.amazon.co...9440_em_1p_0_ti

Edited May 23, 2016 by Berty100

[Crossy]

I would get one with F connectors, they are far easier to put on and get right.

I would be wary of cutting the cable unless unavoidable, when something goes awry it WILL be your fault, put it where there is already a connector, easy to remove when the service man comes

By all means use your mains ground (so long as it's not the same rod that's at the pole), a separate rod is normally deemed better however.

Something that has been noted is that some of these are not power-pass (the last Amazon one for example) meaning they don't have a DC connection from input to output. This may not be an issue for your cable but would certainly stop satellite TV working (the LNB on the dish gets its power up the coax).

[Pib]

Don't get one with an N connector as that's a much larger connector (around the diameter of a man's finger)....the picture is misleading in making it look similar to a much smaller F connector. Look for a surge protector with F connectors.

[Pib]

One time about 5 years ago I bought a half dozen of these to put on various satellite C/KU band lines in my house and the MIL's...I got them for around 5USD a piece with free shipping off Ebay...but as you see below the ones below would come from the U.S. at a way too expensive shipping cost At one time I saw them at a satellite store here in Bangkok for around Bt200 each. Saw them on the 9sats.com website here in Bangkok also below but they are not there now (or I can't find them). You might want to surf around to see if you can find some with low shipping costs from China.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361247634975

[Berty100]

One time about 5 years ago I bought a half dozen of these to put on various satellite C/KU band lines in my house and the MIL's...I got them for around 5USD a piece with free shipping off Ebay...but as you see below the ones below would come from the U.S. at a way too expensive shipping cost At one time I saw them at a satellite store here in Bangkok for around Bt200 each. Saw them on the 9sats.com website here in Bangkok also below but they are not there now (or I can't find them). You might want to surf around to see if you can find some with low shipping costs from China.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361247634975

Capture.JPG

But they don't have an ground connection, how they can work?

[Pib]

The outside connector is ground. If desired just use a lead with alligator clip to ground from the outside connector to ground again. When you buy one with a ground screw connector you accomplish the exact same thing by using an alligator clip.

[Pib]

Here's some specs on a very similar type surge protector.

http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-cable-tv-in-line-coaxial-surge-protector--180-190#lblProductDetails

[bluesofa]

?:

Broadband Cable TV Lightning Surge Protector

Can' t tell you whether is applicable in your case.

Open a thread about lightning protection on TV/internet cables?

If I purchase such a lightning surge protector, can I attach the ground to the earthing cable of the lightning arrester of my transformer or should I use the ground from the breaker box installed below the transformer?

Does it need to be mounted outside where the cable from the company connects to the underground cable on my property, or can it be placed right at the modem?

Hav a look at this: http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-f-female-to-f-female-0-3-ghz-90v-lightning-protector this has F plug to F plug, but also with an earth connection, which surely would be the better option?

[oxo1947]

If electricity always follows the path of least resistance,

why doesn't lightning only strike in France?.........................

[westom]

Another reason why I'm sure the hit was on the coaxial is because only Ethernet connected devices are affected.

Modem - Router - Network switch - 2 android boxes and only the hdmi ports to which these boxes were connected.

Nothing else damaged inside the house.

Your surge damage is directly traceable to mistakes that you created. For example, underground wires can be struck directly just like overhead wires. Same protection must exist for both underground and overhead.

Turning off an appliance (ie fan) does not provide protection. Did you really think a millimeters gap will stop what three kilometers of sky could not? And other wires remain connected - to connect that surge destructively into the appliance.

Foolish is any magic device that would stop, 'block', isolate, or 'absorb' a surge. Again, every useful answer also comes with numbers. Obviously none of those considered devices can 'block' what three kilometers of sky could not. Obviously, a protector rated to 'absorb' hundreds or thousand joules does virtually nothing for destructive surges - that are hundreds of thousands of joules.

Protection is always about an answer to this question: where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate?

Once that surge is inside, then it goes hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. It is only inside because a homeowner all but invited it inside. It is called electricity. That means both an incoming and an outgoing path must exist. And it is everywhere in that path simultaneously. To understand why surges do damage and how to avert that damage, you must change perspective. A surge is an electrical connection from a cloud maybe three kilometers up to earthborne charges maybe four kilometers distant. A shortest path is not five kilometers across the sky. In your case, the shortest electrical path was incoming to your house via one path and outgoing into earth via some other. That electricity was eveywhere in that path at the same time. Much later, one or some items in that path fail. Not everything as so many only want to assume.

So what was your incoming path? You suffered cable damage. Was that the incoming path as you only assumed? Or was it the outgoing path?

A typical surge is incoming on AC mains. If any one AC wire does not make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter connection) to earth, then the homeowner has all but invited it inside. Now is it hunting for earth destructively via appliances. One excellent path is via network equipment. In via AC electric. Out via ethernet cable. Into and out of modem. Then to earth ground via cable.

That is one example. Most of this is never taught to technicians (electricians). None of this is averted by any 'magic box' solution. That surge did damage because is was not connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to single point earth ground. Not just any earth ground. Single point earth ground. That is so important as to almost be religious. Again, where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? If not absorbed by a properly installed (maybe upgraded) earth ground, then a homeowner has made damage possible.

Again, the earth ground sufficient for safety codes may also be woefully insufficient for surge protection. This post is only undoing or exposing what promote ineffective and highly profitable myths. If one does not discuss THE most critical item in every protection 'system', then outright technical lies probably exist. If one does not discuss everything with numbers, then ignore it all as a probable scam.

Term 'low impedance' is critical. If a wire has sharp bends, splices, is inside metallic conduit, etc, then it has high impedance. It can have low resistance and still have excessive impedance. Apparently there is much only learned from hearsay and other bogus sources. Any box that would 'block' or 'absorb' a surge is typically a profit center - not protection.

Routine is to have a surge incoming to every appliance - and only one is damaged. That should now be obvious if the above paragraphs were reread a sufficient number of times. Surge protection means direct lightning strikes without any damage - even to a protector. Protection means a homeowner does not even know a surge existed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. As demonstrated by principles demonstrated by Franklin in 1752. Those lessons, originally demonstrated to protect a church steeple, are essential to protecting all appliances.

You should have plenty of questions. Many were answered almost a month ago in a previous discussion:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/915288-power-poles-fall-like-dominoes-in-korat/#entry10726378

For some reason you are asking about what was not yet comprehended in that previous discussion. This is real simple stuff. But it is new. New stuff always requres multiple rereads. Otherwise it was not new. If useful, it also has numbers. Another reason why multiple rereads (and questions) are necessary.

What is clearly missing is your 'secondary' protection system. That means every wire inside every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground before entering. What you only assumed was damage on cable may actually be damage incoming on AC mains or telephone. And then outgoing to earth via cable. Or it might be incoming because lightning made a direct strike to buried cable. Protection from all those possibilities is same. And involves low impedance connections.

Edited May 29, 2016 by westom

[Berty100]

Consumer protection at City hall accepted my claim and assigned one of their lawyers to it.

I then went to PEA and got great support from the deputy manager of customer relations. he got really out of his way to encourage the deputy manager of the technical department to take up the case.

They sent one of the white collar engineer straight to my house, who made a full inspection and took pictures of everything including the damaged items to support his report.

Within days he completed his report and sent it to the general manager of PEA.............. who refused to sign it as this was not PEA's business according to him.

Don't you love the government agencies in Thailand?

Anyway I was warned about this already in advance, since he has some interests he needs to defend.