Do the contracts mean much?

[ev1lchris]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

[thesetat2013]

No! The expense for them to pursue you is too much. But, if you are smart about it then you can surely and easily find some way or excuse to quit.

[BruceMangosteen]

Government schools generally don't pursue teachers who leave without notice. At most they write to the Labor Department canceling the Work Permit but even that requires motivation and work for someone. Never heard of them writing Immigration. As for seeking financial damages, again never heard of it and doubtful. A private school might be more inclined to do so if you are still in country and only if you mattered as in making real money.

[Scott]

In general, there isn't much that will happen. It is a very good idea to give notice. The contract usually gives a notification period, such as one month notice.

The contract does not negate Thai labor law and if you give notice and work, they need to pay you. That would be backed up by the Ministry of Labor.

If you work for a school that has some convoluted clauses about if you leave you must pay them etc., etc., then you might be better off getting your pay and leaving. Be aware that they may cancel your work permit and visa and you may need to leave the country rather quickly to get a new one.

[Rayk]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

After many conversations with people in my Moo Ban who are teachers, from my understanding schools usually do not issue a contract to new employees until after a 3 month probationary period.

If this is the case how is it possible that you signed a contract within the very first week of school.

[muzmurray]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

After many conversations with people in my Moo Ban who are teachers, from my understanding schools usually do not issue a contract to new employees until after a 3 month probationary period.

If this is the case how is it possible that you signed a contract within the very first week of school.

Strange, I have never met anyone who didn't sign a contract straight away. The 3 month "probation" period normally is before they process your WP etc.

[brucefarang]

I have just handed in my notice -my contract stated 'at least 3 months notice' On presentation my Boss expressed surprise at the length of notice (She knew I might be leaving as I had fore-warned her and she had asked me to tell her asap.

A week later she tells me I must resign now for the end of the month(May)because her bosses will not let her advertise for a new post until I am 'off the payroll" !!!

We haggle and compromise - I resign for the 1st July -she gets 6 weeks to advertise new post. Both happy (although I lost a months+ pay and will wait with baited breathe for payment at the end of June.

So to answer your question it depends! (This is Thailand!)

[timber]

Depends on the school, creating bad karma, may come back to haunt you.

[Colabamumbai]

I was employed at a school, had a contract, plus health and death insurance provided. The Director of the English department was calling me at nights and screaming in her broken English. I did her my not deserve this, I told her my daughter was sick in Canada, and quit the school 2 months into a one year contract. No one said a word about it. I found work at another school.

[sanukjim]

Contracts at the "so called" international schools mean about as much as pissing in the wind.

[silent]

Contracts at the "so called" international schools mean about as much as pissing in the wind.

So, as long as they're not opposed, everything's okidokey?

[notbkk]

They mean nothing at all.

[overherebc]

In general, there isn't much that will happen. It is a very good idea to give notice. The contract usually gives a notification period, such as one month notice.

The contract does not negate Thai labor law and if you give notice and work, they need to pay you. That would be backed up by the Ministry of Labor.

If you work for a school that has some convoluted clauses about if you leave you must pay them etc., etc., then you might be better off getting your pay and leaving. Be aware that they may cancel your work permit and visa and you may need to leave the country rather quickly to get a new one.

The school may cancel your WP but if you obtained the VISA yourself outside Thailand they have nothing to do with it and cannot cancel it. If you are on an EXTENSION of stay, yes they can cancel that.

[Prof3934]

I was a professor working in a major university teaching Senior Thai Management business administration for their MBAs.

My contract clearly set out my classes and subjects and was signed by everyone.

Yet, after 8 months of the contract in my 8th year, they just told me they had to give all my classes to Thai lecturers, even though my MBA program was taught completely in Business English.

No apologies, just stopped. My own work had been marked as excellent in all student assessments, and the Faculty was very pleased year after year. And yet just cancel all my last 4 months with no written or verbal communication. The various secretaries just me they had been ordered to transfer my work to Thais. (there is absolutely no way they could have coped with the English, let alone all my industrial experience behind the lectures, role play etc. in fact I was told they made the final MBA examination a multi-choice answer sheet. Yet the students were supposed to be proficient in writing English.

I took my contract to a lawyer who said I could sue them for 4 months of lectures certainly. He advised me to write to them with registered post to get something in writing from the. I did this as well as copying it to the President of the University as he was my friend.

I had no reply from anyone.

I went back to my lawyer who said he could start proceedings but it could cost 100,000 baht to begin with, court charges could be very high as it would drag on and on. Also he warned me the lawyers for the University would be very strong in attacking me. He advised me that although they owed me 250,000 baht, it could eventually cost me significantly more, as farangs could not take on a Royal University.

So what could I do but accept that Thai contracts could be stopped at the whim of anyone.

[overherebc]

I was a professor working in a major university teaching Senior Thai Management business administration for their MBAs.

My contract clearly set out my classes and subjects and was signed by everyone.

Yet, after 8 months of the contract in my 8th year, they just told me they had to give all my classes to Thai lecturers, even though my MBA program was taught completely in Business English.

No apologies, just stopped. My own work had been marked as excellent in all student assessments, and the Faculty was very pleased year after year. And yet just cancel all my last 4 months with no written or verbal communication. The various secretaries just me they had been ordered to transfer my work to Thais. (there is absolutely no way they could have coped with the English, let alone all my industrial experience behind the lectures, role play etc. in fact I was told they made the final MBA examination a multi-choice answer sheet. Yet the students were supposed to be proficient in writing English.

I took my contract to a lawyer who said I could sue them for 4 months of lectures certainly. He advised me to write to them with registered post to get something in writing from the. I did this as well as copying it to the President of the University as he was my friend.

I had no reply from anyone.

I went back to my lawyer who said he could start proceedings but it could cost 100,000 baht to begin with, court charges could be very high as it would drag on and on. Also he warned me the lawyers for the University would be very strong in attacking me. He advised me that although they owed me 250,000 baht, it could eventually cost me significantly more, as farangs could not take on a Royal University.

So what could I do but accept that Thai contracts could be stopped at the whim of anyone.

You could have gone straight to the Thai labour court who would have looked after you for sum of 0 baht.

You know that 99% of lawyers give the others a bad name don't you?

[tuanku]

According to Thai Labour law, which is above any written contract, your notice period is the same as your pay period, i.e. if you get paid monthly it is one month, weekly it is 1 week. That applies to both parties. Nothing which is not specified by Thai labour law can be legally enforced. Once you leave your post, your work permit (which you won't get anyway for a couple of months) and non-imm B visa for work are automatically cancelled. You have 7 days in which to do something about your permission to stay in Thailand should you wish to do that. Most options, including that of taking a new teaching job, require you to leave the country and come back in again with a new valid visa. If you stay on once your stated visa purpose no longer applies, even though your stamp has an expiry date well into the future, you are considered to be overstaying. Whether you will get called on this depends on whether the school can be bothered to inform labour and immigration of your change of status.

[tonypace02]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

After many conversations with people in my Moo Ban who are teachers, from my understanding schools usually do not issue a contract to new employees until after a 3 month probationary period.

If this is the case how is it possible that you signed a contract within the very first week of school.

Not so. I have worked for public and private schools and universities. I never spent a day in class without a contract. I sued 2 of the schools successfully and the lesson I learned from one of the judges is that in Thailand, the contract is everything. Also, the very minute you are terminated, contact the nearest immigration office to turn in your WP. The two schools I sued told immigration that I had been fired the month before I turned in my work permit. At first immigration was going to charge me for overstay because the WP must be turned in immediately. When I explained the situation, showed them my contract, and explained I was suing, they contacted the schools and raised hell with them. I was instructed then to go to the nearest port of entry and get my new visa and there would be no fine.

Incidentally, both schools settled for 2 1/2 times the money I would have lost plus legal fees.

[overherebc]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

After many conversations with people in my Moo Ban who are teachers, from my understanding schools usually do not issue a contract to new employees until after a 3 month probationary period.

If this is the case how is it possible that you signed a contract within the very first week of school.

Not so. I have worked for public and private schools and universities. I never spent a day in class without a contract. I sued 2 of the schools successfully and the lesson I learned from one of the judges is that in Thailand, the contract is everything. Also, the very minute you are terminated, contact the nearest immigration office to turn in your WP. The two schools I sued told immigration that I had been fired the month before I turned in my work permit. At first immigration was going to charge me for overstay because the WP must be turned in immediately. When I explained the situation, showed them my contract, and explained I was suing, they contacted the schools and raised hell with them. I was instructed then to go to the nearest port of entry and get my new visa and there would be no fine.

Incidentally, both schools settled for 2 1/2 times the money I would have lost plus legal fees.

Your WP is cancelled at the labour office not at Immigration. If you are on an extension of stay that is cancelled by the school notifying Immigration where you do or the school does your 90 day reports.

If you have a visa it is your visa and it is not tied to your WP. I have always worked and held a Multi entry VISA, a big sticker in my passport and no-one has ever cancelled it though some companies have told me they must.. I gave back the WP and refused to hand over my passport.

In over 12 years of almost continual work in Thailand I have always had the Multi O, it is mine and always was mine. I have yet to do a 90 day report as I always left and returned every 90 days.

[muzmurray]

According to Thai Labour law, which is above any written contract, your notice period is the same as your pay period, i.e. if you get paid monthly it is one month, weekly it is 1 week. That applies to both parties. Nothing which is not specified by Thai labour law can be legally enforced. Once you leave your post, your work permit (which you won't get anyway for a couple of months) and non-imm B visa for work are automatically cancelled. You have 7 days in which to do something about your permission to stay in Thailand should you wish to do that. Most options, including that of taking a new teaching job, require you to leave the country and come back in again with a new valid visa. If you stay on once your stated visa purpose no longer applies, even though your stamp has an expiry date well into the future, you are considered to be overstaying. Whether you will get called on this depends on whether the school can be bothered to inform labour and immigration of your change of status.

OMG, so wrong it is painful!

Please,please, please don't write such claptrap.

If you don't know, (which you clearly do not), then just say nothing.

Visas are not cancelled.

You do NOT have 7 days to sort out your permission to stay, (only if you purchase the 7 day "get out" extension).

If your permission to stay is valid and gained because of a visa entry, you will not be on overstay.

[tuanku]

According to Thai Labour law, which is above any written contract, your notice period is the same as your pay period, i.e. if you get paid monthly it is one month, weekly it is 1 week. That applies to both parties. Nothing which is not specified by Thai labour law can be legally enforced. Once you leave your post, your work permit (which you won't get anyway for a couple of months) and non-imm B visa for work are automatically cancelled. You have 7 days in which to do something about your permission to stay in Thailand should you wish to do that. Most options, including that of taking a new teaching job, require you to leave the country and come back in again with a new valid visa. If you stay on once your stated visa purpose no longer applies, even though your stamp has an expiry date well into the future, you are considered to be overstaying. Whether you will get called on this depends on whether the school can be bothered to inform labour and immigration of your change of status.

OMG, so wrong it is painful!

Please,please, please don't write such claptrap.

If you don't know, (which you clearly do not), then just say nothing.

Visas are not cancelled.

You do NOT have 7 days to sort out your permission to stay, (only if you purchase the 7 day "get out" extension).

If your permission to stay is valid and gained because of a visa entry, you will not be on overstay.

Having been in exactly this situation I know what I was told by the immigration authorities.

Non-Immigrant Visa "B" -- To Teach in Thailand

1. REQUIREMENT

This type of visa is issued to applicants who intend to take up employment as school teachers under university level in Thailand.

2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months
• Visa application form completely filled out
• Recent (4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant
• Letter of acceptance from employing institute or school in Thailand.
• Letter of approval from government agencies such as the Office of the Private Education Commission, the Office of the Basic Education Commission.
• Evidence of educational qualification such as diplomas or teaching certificates.
• School license or business registration, list of shareholders and school profile.
• Applicant’s resume.
• Police certificate verifying that applicant has no criminal record or equivalents or letter issued by authorised agencies in applicant’s country. (The requirement of the submission of such police certificate is optional. The applicant must submit it if consular officer requests he/she to do so. This requirement is effective as from May 2007)
• Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

My Non-imm B visa application was made to teach at a particular school. The application documents included a formal job offer from that school plus details of the school and post applied for on the basis of which the visa was granted. (see above) A work permit came later. The Immigration officer told me that since my Visa was linked to a specific job, it was considered cancelled as soon as I left that job (in much the same way as a visa is cancelled if you leave the country without a valid re-entry visa. It was also him who told me that there was a 7 day "grace period" before I had to leave the country and re-enter with a new visa. (or change to an non imm O for marriage or a retirement visa which can be done without a departure and re-entry) It is actually the employers duty to cancel the work permit and invalidate the visa when an employee leaves, but if they don't do that the visa holder is still deemed to be staying on an invalid visa.

I also had to leave the country and apply for a new N. I. B teaching visa when I changed employers, even though I was doing effectively the same job in a new location.

So please please please show me where in the regs it says otherwise or just say nothing.

[overherebc]

According to Thai Labour law, which is above any written contract, your notice period is the same as your pay period, i.e. if you get paid monthly it is one month, weekly it is 1 week. That applies to both parties. Nothing which is not specified by Thai labour law can be legally enforced. Once you leave your post, your work permit (which you won't get anyway for a couple of months) and non-imm B visa for work are automatically cancelled. You have 7 days in which to do something about your permission to stay in Thailand should you wish to do that. Most options, including that of taking a new teaching job, require you to leave the country and come back in again with a new valid visa. If you stay on once your stated visa purpose no longer applies, even though your stamp has an expiry date well into the future, you are considered to be overstaying. Whether you will get called on this depends on whether the school can be bothered to inform labour and immigration of your change of status.

OMG, so wrong it is painful!

Please,please, please don't write such claptrap.

If you don't know, (which you clearly do not), then just say nothing.

Visas are not cancelled.

You do NOT have 7 days to sort out your permission to stay, (only if you purchase the 7 day "get out" extension).

If your permission to stay is valid and gained because of a visa entry, you will not be on overstay.

Having been in exactly this situation I know what I was told by the immigration authorities.

Non-Immigrant Visa "B" -- To Teach in Thailand

1. REQUIREMENT

This type of visa is issued to applicants who intend to take up employment as school teachers under university level in Thailand.

2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months
• Visa application form completely filled out
• Recent (4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant
• Letter of acceptance from employing institute or school in Thailand.
• Letter of approval from government agencies such as the Office of the Private Education Commission, the Office of the Basic Education Commission.
• Evidence of educational qualification such as diplomas or teaching certificates.
• School license or business registration, list of shareholders and school profile.
• Applicants resume.
• Police certificate verifying that applicant has no criminal record or equivalents or letter issued by authorised agencies in applicants country. (The requirement of the submission of such police certificate is optional. The applicant must submit it if consular officer requests he/she to do so. This requirement is effective as from May 2007)
• Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

My Non-imm B visa application was made to teach at a particular school. The application documents included a formal job offer from that school plus details of the school and post applied for on the basis of which the visa was granted. (see above) A work permit came later. The Immigration officer told me that since my Visa was linked to a specific job, it was considered cancelled as soon as I left that job (in much the same way as a visa is cancelled if you leave the country without a valid re-entry visa. It was also him who told me that there was a 7 day "grace period" before I had to leave the country and re-enter with a new visa. (or change to an non imm O for marriage or a retirement visa which can be done without a departure and re-entry) It is actually the employers duty to cancel the work permit and invalidate the visa when an employee leaves, but if they don't do that the visa holder is still deemed to be staying on an invalid visa.

I also had to leave the country and apply for a new N. I. B teaching visa when I changed employers, even though I was doing effectively the same job in a new location.

So please please please show me where in the regs it says otherwise or just say nothing.

If you had a single entry Non Imm B and start work you change to extensions of stay that will be cancelled when you finish work.

If your WP is issued because you have a multi entry Non B then when you finish work your VISA (not extension) stays valid until its' Use By date.

[tuanku]

According to Thai Labour law, which is above any written contract, your notice period is the same as your pay period, i.e. if you get paid monthly it is one month, weekly it is 1 week. That applies to both parties. Nothing which is not specified by Thai labour law can be legally enforced. Once you leave your post, your work permit (which you won't get anyway for a couple of months) and non-imm B visa for work are automatically cancelled. You have 7 days in which to do something about your permission to stay in Thailand should you wish to do that. Most options, including that of taking a new teaching job, require you to leave the country and come back in again with a new valid visa. If you stay on once your stated visa purpose no longer applies, even though your stamp has an expiry date well into the future, you are considered to be overstaying. Whether you will get called on this depends on whether the school can be bothered to inform labour and immigration of your change of status.

OMG, so wrong it is painful!

Please,please, please don't write such claptrap.

If you don't know, (which you clearly do not), then just say nothing.

Visas are not cancelled.

You do NOT have 7 days to sort out your permission to stay, (only if you purchase the 7 day "get out" extension).

If your permission to stay is valid and gained because of a visa entry, you will not be on overstay.

Having been in exactly this situation I know what I was told by the immigration authorities.

Non-Immigrant Visa "B" -- To Teach in Thailand

1. REQUIREMENT

This type of visa is issued to applicants who intend to take up employment as school teachers under university level in Thailand.

2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months
• Visa application form completely filled out
• Recent (4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant
• Letter of acceptance from employing institute or school in Thailand.
• Letter of approval from government agencies such as the Office of the Private Education Commission, the Office of the Basic Education Commission.
• Evidence of educational qualification such as diplomas or teaching certificates.
• School license or business registration, list of shareholders and school profile.
• Applicants resume.
• Police certificate verifying that applicant has no criminal record or equivalents or letter issued by authorised agencies in applicants country. (The requirement of the submission of such police certificate is optional. The applicant must submit it if consular officer requests he/she to do so. This requirement is effective as from May 2007)
• Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

My Non-imm B visa application was made to teach at a particular school. The application documents included a formal job offer from that school plus details of the school and post applied for on the basis of which the visa was granted. (see above) A work permit came later. The Immigration officer told me that since my Visa was linked to a specific job, it was considered cancelled as soon as I left that job (in much the same way as a visa is cancelled if you leave the country without a valid re-entry visa. It was also him who told me that there was a 7 day "grace period" before I had to leave the country and re-enter with a new visa. (or change to an non imm O for marriage or a retirement visa which can be done without a departure and re-entry) It is actually the employers duty to cancel the work permit and invalidate the visa when an employee leaves, but if they don't do that the visa holder is still deemed to be staying on an invalid visa.

I also had to leave the country and apply for a new N. I. B teaching visa when I changed employers, even though I was doing effectively the same job in a new location.

So please please please show me where in the regs it says otherwise or just say nothing.

If you had a single entry Non Imm B and start work you change to extensions of stay that will be cancelled when you finish work.

If your WP is issued because you have a multi entry Non B then when you finish work your VISA (not extension) stays valid until its' Use By date.

I believe the teaching visa is a single entry NIB visa as standard and gives employers 30 days to get the WP. (or get another 30 day extension) It permits entry for one single specific purpose and cannot be used in circumstances other than those it was issued to cover (that's what I understood from the nice man at immigration who had pretty good English.)

[Fookhaht]

Do contracts mean anything here...

[watcharacters]

I was a professor working in a major university teaching Senior Thai Management business administration for their MBAs.

My contract clearly set out my classes and subjects and was signed by everyone.

Yet, after 8 months of the contract in my 8th year, they just told me they had to give all my classes to Thai lecturers, even though my MBA program was taught completely in Business English.

No apologies, just stopped. My own work had been marked as excellent in all student assessments, and the Faculty was very pleased year after year. And yet just cancel all my last 4 months with no written or verbal communication. The various secretaries just me they had been ordered to transfer my work to Thais. (there is absolutely no way they could have coped with the English, let alone all my industrial experience behind the lectures, role play etc. in fact I was told they made the final MBA examination a multi-choice answer sheet. Yet the students were supposed to be proficient in writing English.

I took my contract to a lawyer who said I could sue them for 4 months of lectures certainly. He advised me to write to them with registered post to get something in writing from the. I did this as well as copying it to the President of the University as he was my friend.

I had no reply from anyone.

I went back to my lawyer who said he could start proceedings but it could cost 100,000 baht to begin with, court charges could be very high as it would drag on and on. Also he warned me the lawyers for the University would be very strong in attacking me. He advised me that although they owed me 250,000 baht, it could eventually cost me significantly more, as farangs could not take on a Royal University.

So what could I do but accept that Thai contracts could be stopped at the whim of anyone.

I gather from your post that Thai contracts can be breached at any point by a Thai entity but what about the other way around?

I think the OP was wondering about his legal standing when or if he breaches his contract.

[overherebc]

From what I understand, if you break the conditions of your contract and assuming the contract complies with Thai labour law then you will not be entitled to any severence pay or notice payment.

I doubt very much if the company will pursue you in any way, however they probably could if inclinded to do so.

Some schools will try scare tactics, we will cancel your VISA, we will report you etc but they are usually the smaller private schools working on the fringe of the law with the back packer type teachers who are easily scared of losing their easy time in the sun.

If the OP gave them 1 months notice and did not get 'ratty' about it then he/she would most likely have no problems.

[ajarngreg]

I know that if the employer decides to go against contract there's nothing I can really do about it.

However, I signed a contract having second thoughts. I thought that if I don't like my teaching job I can just take the next paycheck and bail.

If I do that should I be worried?

After many conversations with people in my Moo Ban who are teachers, from my understanding schools usually do not issue a contract to new employees until after a 3 month probationary period.

If this is the case how is it possible that you signed a contract within the very first week of school.

Strange, I have never met anyone who didn't sign a contract straight away. The 3 month "probation" period normally is before they process your WP etc.

It's done by some schools for Thai employees.

[Fookhaht]

Do contracts mean anything here...

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1463995804.414668.jpg

Seriously, my contract has been broken so many times by a major university here, I've lost count. Mostly in regards to salary payment, benefits, rules of redress, etc. You just weigh the overall pros and cons and choose to live with it if the pros win.

[WonnabeBiker]

Well, schools behave in similar fashion. I know a case where they had a mutual "3 months notice period" written. Then they fired the guy near lunch time of the last day of the month. By handing him a letter in Thai.

• Salary - wasn't paid! (I thought, it was a requirement for a lawful dismissal to settle up)
• The original contract was in both English and Thai, as the guy can't read or speak Thai.
• He sued and the school won.
• To sue a government school requires to go to some other court which imposes a 2% fine on the amount claimed, payable upfront when filing.

Personally, I think schools have to suck it up when they fail to keep a teacher. No one would start all over again with a B-Visa etc. if it was for 3-5,000 THB more salary.

[ev1lchris]

The market is totally in the teacher's favor. But the idiot Thai teachers still can't recognize that and foreign teachers still walk out.

[muzmurray]

The market is totally in the teacher's favor. But the idiot Thai teachers still can't recognize that and foreign teachers still walk out.

Then why do you still not have a job after "doing a runner" from your last school?