Odd question about water reservoirs

[gerry1953]

In my part of Isaan I noticed the man made reservoir had an abundance of old upright trees sticking out of the lake. With the extreme low water level even more wood is showing and is rather unsightly not to mention an issue for boaters and fishing. I have asked local Thai's and farang but I can't get an answer as to why they didn't harvest the trees before they constructed the earth dam and flooded the area? I know wood is a valuable commodity here to purchase and also sought after for charcoal production. I know the government have restrictions on chain saws and logging but would think knowing the trees would die and become unsightly they would have allowed them to be removed? Is there some type of cultural or Buddhist belief that forbids their cutting? I went to a second lake smaller reservoir nearby and noticed the same issue?

[dddave]

Not unusual. Reservoirs take a long time to fill and trees left standing help control erosion. I suspect that like old wrecks in the ocean, old, standing trees may provide breeding grounds for some fish species. I lived near a major reservoir in the US and during droughts it was not unusual to see treetops coming out. In one particularly dry year, the foundations of an abandoned town appeared.

Interesting note about old trees and water. In New England for hundreds of years, rivers were used to float millions of trees to the sawmills. Over the years, many of those trees sank to the bottom of these rivers.

About 30 years ago, when there was a housing construction boom and the price of lumber, especially wide planks skyrocketed, entrepreneurs began pulling those 100+ year old logs up from the riverbed. They were in amazingly good condition and were sawn for lumber. A lot of them were from species that have become rare and very expensive so some of these guys made a bundle. Eventually the states began restricting it because it was causing a lot of muck to be released, polluting the rivers and disturbing spawning areas for fish.

[gerry1953]

An interesting reply dddave. This area is very flat so erosion should not be a factor. I agree trees, rocks, boats etc strategically placed (usually flat not upright) in bodies of water provide better underwater environments for shade, protection and even breeding. I honestly don't think this area is leaving trees in fresh water because of concern for fish habitat. Conservation seems to be a new development (like with the elephants) and that should be encouraged.

I am familiar with underwater logging from my area of Canada and agree a log can stay viable for many years but it is expensive compared to normal logging practices and in this small lake not feasible.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The Lao are still logging underwater at the Nam Ngum I lake, which started filling in 1971!

http://www.seasite.niu.edu/lao/Lao_overview/namngum.htm

Mac

[impulse]

Also keep in mind it takes a special permit to cut, to transport and to sell many woods here in Thailand. One of many laws specifically designed to enrich the chosen class.

If they're not the ones who owned the land, or would have harvested the trees, there's very little incentive for anyone else to do so.

There's no money in it unless you're one of the chosen. Otherwise, you have to sell to them, and they pay diddly squat and they sell it on for the big bucks.

[gerry1953]

Also keep in mind it takes a special permit to cut, to transport and to sell many woods here in Thailand. One of many laws specifically designed to enrich the chosen class.

If they're not the ones who owned the land, or would have harvested the trees, there's very little incentive for anyone else to do so.

There's no money in it unless you're one of the chosen. Otherwise, you have to sell to them, and they pay diddly squat and they sell it on for the big bucks.

I understand what you are saying about the "chosen" but even a rich landowner who sold the land originally flooded could have made a tidy profit from the hundred truckloads of wood being flooded. It is uncharacteristic of any Thai's to literally waste any product that will give them a profit? Much of this wood is above the water level year round and subject to oxygenation and bug infestation (it is dead wood). In Isaan many people eke out a living scavenging for bottles, cardboard, plastics and other scrap materials to sell to recycle plants? Local mom and pop charcoal producers are roaming forests looking for wood to use in their kilns - this seems like a terrible waste and I thought there might be a more logical reason? I was thinking it may be a cultural, religious or government policy but nobody locally seems to know.

[Srikcir]

This is a resevoir - hence little or no current other than where the water is withdrawn. So even if the trees were deliberately left to prevent subsurface erosion, I'd think that cutting them at ground level would tree stumps and root system to hold the water soaked soil in place.

[CGW]

Reservoirs are on government owned land, therefore to cut down trees you would need a permit from the owners of the land to cut down trees, that would probably be "difficult" to get? Can't think of any other reason why they would just be left?

[Issangeorge]

Not unusual. Reservoirs take a long time to fill and trees left standing help control erosion. I suspect that like old wrecks in the ocean, old, standing trees may provide breeding grounds for some fish species. I lived near a major reservoir in the US and during droughts it was not unusual to see treetops coming out. In one particularly dry year, the foundations of an abandoned town appeared.

Interesting note about old trees and water. In New England for hundreds of years, rivers were used to float millions of trees to the sawmills. Over the years, many of those trees sank to the bottom of these rivers.

About 30 years ago, when there was a housing construction boom and the price of lumber, especially wide planks skyrocketed, entrepreneurs began pulling those 100+ year old logs up from the riverbed. They were in amazingly good condition and were sawn for lumber. A lot of them were from species that have become rare and very expensive so some of these guys made a bundle. Eventually the states began restricting it because it was causing a lot of muck to be released, polluting the rivers and disturbing spawning areas for fish.

In my old home town in Canada, they harvested the trees from the bottom of the lake where the logs were staged before going through the mill. These logs were 50 years to over 100 years old. They were sold to companies that lumbered them into wood for carving. One 8 foot log would sell for about $1,000. The guy harvesting them made a small fortune.