Are my electricity bills average? Opinions, please.

[MrBanks]

Reading through this has got me worried. We have a pool (11m X 4m), we run the pump 4 hours a day. We have 1 A/C unit that is 24,000 btu, which runs on average 20 hours a day. I x 1 another 18,000 btu which is 10 hours and a 12,000 btu which is 8 hours a day. In the evening we will often have 3 tvs running, at night lights on all around the house. All of this I consider to be normal, comfortable living, nothing extreme.

Our electric bill this month was 16,726 baht. If I divide the price by the the amount of units consumed I get a unit cost pf 4.3 baht.

I'm thinking it is time to get some testing done, I suspect we have a problem!!

comfortable living is a relative thing. if you read the comments here some people think 23ºC is comfortable whereas others think airconditioning is "unmanly" (sic).

-1 unit 24,000 btu, 20 hours a day = B 5,934 / month

-1 unit 18,000 btu 10 hours a day = B 2,193 / month

-1 unit 12,000 btu 8 hours a day = B 1.135 / month

--------------------------------------------------------------------

total aircon cost.............................B 9,262 / month

-pool pump 4 hours a day (2hp 1490w) B 770 / month

add TVs, lighting in and outside, washer?, dryer?, cooking? PCs and your bill is very much in line and reasonable.

Thanks for this information Naam, this is very helpful and has set my mind at ease. When I think about it and add the list of appliances on top of your list add 3 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water heater. I guess that I am in line.

Happy days!!!!

[Tapster]

Thank you, everyone, for the useful replies.

We replaced all the CFL (compact fluorescent) light bulbs with LEDs when we got the house. Unfortunately the Chinese LEDs which were on special at Home Pro turned out to be utter <deleted> and lasted only a month or two before either failing completely or emitting an eerie, glow which wasn't anything like satisfactory.

"Real" LEDs aren't cheap but we now have some in the kitchen and bathrooms and they're very effective. I hope they will last a very long time. Elsewhere, we're back to CFLs.

Re: aircon, we have the temperature set between 26 and 28 mostly, in order to keep costs down but mainly because this is comfortable for us.

I'm happy that we're not using excessive amounts of electricity which was the point of this thread.

Many thanks again.

.

[DrDave]

Are my Electricity bills average

A Swimming pool pump is a big consumer. A 1hp pump typically uses around 1650 watts. You can replace with a ECO pump which according to manufacturer uses around 300W. This is a inverter driven pump. Simarly for aircon which uses around 70% of conventional aircon. LED lighting will also reduce consuption.

i don't know about English engineering but globally a 1hp pump uses 745.7 watts. moreover, inverter driven pool pumps do not save any electricity because the flow/head pressure demand is constant. inverter pumps can only save energy when the demand fluctuates. the same applies to inverter driven aircon compressors when the heat load fluctuates.

Correct - a 1HP device will use about 750 watts of power regardless of voltage and Hz. (Also note that an "engineer" in England is not the same as an engineer in most European countries and North America )

As for the "Eco" pump, I believe that this is referring to a variable speed pump, or more accurately, a multi-speed pump. Theoretically, you can maintain a clean pool by running the pump at a lower speed (less gallons or liters per hour) for a longer period of time, at a lower cost than using a single-speed pump. From what I understand, the current draw of a multi-speed pump versus speed (flow rate) isn't linear, they're supposedly more efficient at lower speeds. Thus, running a multi-speed pump at a speed giving 30% of the flow rate of the single-speed pump should actually use less than 30% of the electricity of the single-speed pump. The idea, as I understand it, is to find the optimal speed/time combination that keeps your pool clean (which may involve running the pump 24/7, but at a very low speed). I have no idea how well lower flows work with various types of pool filters (sand, DE, cartridge), heaters, or chlorine generators.

Down at 300 watts, I think the flow rate would be so low that you'd have to run the pump 24/7 to keep a decent size pool clean. That equates to 7.2KwH per day, as opposed to the 7.5KwH consumed by a single-speed pump running 10 hours/day.

[DrDave]

Thank you, everyone, for the useful replies.

We replaced all the CFL (compact fluorescent) light bulbs with LEDs when we got the house. Unfortunately the Chinese LEDs which were on special at Home Pro turned out to be utter <deleted> and lasted only a month or two before either failing completely or emitting an eerie, glow which wasn't anything like satisfactory.

"Real" LEDs aren't cheap but we now have some in the kitchen and bathrooms and they're very effective. I hope they will last a very long time. Elsewhere, we're back to CFLs.

<snip>

.

Tapster, I'm considering swapping out my CFLs for LEDs as well.

What's the brand at HomePro I should avoid, and the the brand that's worked well for you?

[phuketrichard]

MY god;

u all make me feel like i am living like a local

2 bedroom house/2 bath

NO pool (30 years living in Phuket,,,, never had a pool)

run 1 air con ( last month) for 7 hours at night

big tv, washing machine 2x/week, Big frig

1,180 baht for my electric bill last month

[Naam]

Thanks for this information Naam, this is very helpful and has set my mind at ease. When I think about it and add the list of appliances on top of your list add 3 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water heater. I guess that I am in line.

Happy days!!!!

good that you mentioned the energy consuming gadgets i forgot to list

a lot of people blame aircon only and forget the water heaters which use a multiple of kWh of a midsized aircon. and when you have (like me) three females in your home who use in one week more hot water than the average male in a year (sometimes i exaggerate a wee bit) your electricity meter runs as if turbocharged

cheers!

[thailand49]

I've owned for ten years, have lots of stuff running but no pool like you. I do not see on the surface your bill being out of the ordinary. Here in Pattaya, I check the meters all the time know even before I get the bill by the company. I normally pay between 4.10-4.50 baht per unit.

A few years ago I noticed something odd, so to check I turn off everything and I mean everything for a few minutes. Went outside to the Company meter and noticed it was still running. I finally located a capable Electrician who did the check himself after a hour he figure out something installed wasn't connected properly. He rewired the box cost 1500 baht.. within a week my usage was cut in half.

Just my personal two cents, if you have a unit on 24/7, and living here in Thailand I think something is wrong with you unless you are sick. Hot is part of living here you need to get use to it. Try opening a window and using fans that is what I do and it is not being cheap. Believe me your body especially your head get use to it very fast. And if you need to look at the bill then it is time to cut back a bit by first turning down the number slowly.

I appreciate your post Thailand49.

First - re electric bills

We moved into current condo in 2013, so I have some experience with the place.

Our electric bill fluctuates ridiculously.

Bills cut on 11th of the month

May 927 KW 4,137 Baht tax etc included

April 770

Mar 610

Feb 592

Jan 601

Dec 825

Nov 719

Condo is 145 SQM with a lot of glass walls and sliders facing south and west; we cover them with blackout curtains and such but the airflow / leakage of cool air from the condo is terrible. Actually the list above does not really show why I feel is is inexplicable. I should add that we were not here for most of Dec (Jan bill) and had the place shut off, except for fridge. Other years, Dec and Feb were higher than June and July, when the outside temps were exact opposite.

The only explanation I can come up with is that there is wind and draft and that varies and when it is strong it pulls out the cool air faster, making aircon work harder. The bedroom aircon compressor is on almost all the time it is running all night. I wake to hear it shut off when it reaches 24 degrees and within 3 or 4 minutes it is on again, running for 5 - 8 minutes to reach the 24 degrees. This leads me to believe that if I can stop the leakage I might see more efficient machines and lower bills.

I think the numbers you provided are not Baht but the number of Units that are being used in your condo? I can just say, the windows are single pane windows and sliders and of course the workmanship here in Thailand you will get lots of leakage. If money isn'td much of a issue you can have them replaced with vinyl double pan. But remember just a second or two of opening those sliders can cost you if you are running the a/c/ and talking about A/C are the units proper BTU for the room size? And as noted by Namm? what you set the A/C can make a huge difference in money and you might look into Inverter A/C units I heard the same that they are very cost effective to have. Keep the filter screen cleaned.

[bankruatsteve]

Just to respond to a post before somewhere... The energy consumption difference between CFL and LED is very minimal - so, if you like LED then go for it when your CFL dies. In my case, I'm still waiting... waiting...

[khunPer]

Thanks for this information Naam, this is very helpful and has set my mind at ease. When I think about it and add the list of appliances on top of your list add 3 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water heater. I guess that I am in line.

Happy days!!!!

good that you mentioned the energy consuming gadgets i forgot to list

a lot of people blame aircon only and forget the water heaters which use a multiple of kWh of a midsized aircon. and when you have (like me) three females in your home who use in one week more hot water than the average male in a year (sometimes i exaggerate a wee bit) your electricity meter runs as if turbocharged

cheers!

Khun Nam – sounds like you could benefit from a solar water heater; that stops my females from turbocharging the meter with anything but constant running TVs (more than one), and rice-cooker all day (rice being disposed of in evening, and fresh rice cooked, enough for next day, but never used, as fresh shall be cooked in the morning)...

[Naam]

Thanks for this information Naam, this is very helpful and has set my mind at ease. When I think about it and add the list of appliances on top of your list add 3 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water heater. I guess that I am in line.

Happy days!!!!

good that you mentioned the energy consuming gadgets i forgot to list

a lot of people blame aircon only and forget the water heaters which use a multiple of kWh of a midsized aircon. and when you have (like me) three females in your home who use in one week more hot water than the average male in a year (sometimes i exaggerate a wee bit) your electricity meter runs as if turbocharged

cheers!

Khun Nam – sounds like you could benefit from a solar water heater; that stops my females from turbocharging the meter with anything but constant running TVs (more than one), and rice-cooker all day (rice being disposed of in evening, and fresh rice cooked, enough for next day, but never used, as fresh shall be cooked in the morning)...

that would have been possible if i had planned it when building the house because it needs separate piping to each bathroom. i am using solar power to heat up every day thousands of liters water, but that's the water in my pool.

[khunPer]

Thanks for this information Naam, this is very helpful and has set my mind at ease. When I think about it and add the list of appliances on top of your list add 3 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water heater. I guess that I am in line.

Happy days!!!!

good that you mentioned the energy consuming gadgets i forgot to list

a lot of people blame aircon only and forget the water heaters which use a multiple of kWh of a midsized aircon. and when you have (like me) three females in your home who use in one week more hot water than the average male in a year (sometimes i exaggerate a wee bit) your electricity meter runs as if turbocharged

cheers!

Khun Nam – sounds like you could benefit from a solar water heater; that stops my females from turbocharging the meter with anything but constant running TVs (more than one), and rice-cooker all day (rice being disposed of in evening, and fresh rice cooked, enough for next day, but never used, as fresh shall be cooked in the morning)...

that would have been possible if i had planned it when building the house because it needs separate piping to each bathroom. i am using solar power to heat up every day thousands of liters water, but that's the water in my pool.

Solar pic.JPG

Impress me, would have thought pool water is warm enough in Thailand, but of course, up Isaan it can be pretty cold, sometimes. My friends did similar in Denmark, just some black hot-water-radiators on the roof for heating outdoor pool-water; worked fine as an alternative when the oil-prices rocked to the sky, but not during real freezing winter...

Saw that one of the resorts here (Koh Samui) advertised, that they produce hot water from the aircons (reusing warm air) – something to do with creating a "green image" for their detox-spa guests – but must actually be a good idea, especially during rain-season and cloudy weather; if it's not so cold that no-one use aircons...

[Sheryl]

I have a large 2 story house, no pool, but a/c usage about what you describe.

My bills are about the same as yours - more in the hottest month, and of course much less in the cool season when I'm not using the a/c.

[Acharn]

One air con 24 hours a day? I'd say your bills are on the low side. Of course we had several fans running most of the time, but I only had my air con on about 10 hours a day during the recent heat wave and my latest bill was for ฿7,000. I usually run the air con less and my bills vary from about ฿5,000 (cold season) to ฿6,000.

[Naam]

Impress me, would have thought pool water is warm enough in Thailand, but of course, up Isaan it can be pretty cold, sometimes. My friends did similar in Denmark, just some black hot-water-radiators on the roof for heating outdoor pool-water; worked fine as an alternative when the oil-prices rocked to the sky, but not during real freezing winter...

Saw that one of the resorts here (Koh Samui) advertised, that they produce hot water from the aircons (reusing warm air) – something to do with creating a "green image" for their detox-spa guests – but must actually be a good idea, especially during rain-season and cloudy weather; if it's not so cold that no-one use aircons...

our pool is an indoor pool which never gets any sun and therefore needs some heating even during the very hot season.

producing hot water using the waste heat of a big aircon unit since 8 years to heat pool. the same unit cools our pool area which is our alternate living during the "cool" season. it is too expensive to cool that area continously from april till september. the hot water feature has become redundant since installation of the solar panels on the roof.

[catman20]

about right I run the same and my bills are pretty much the same give or take

[Guitar God]

Last month's bill was ฿7210. 4 br 4 bath house with good shade on two sides. No pool.

At least one A/C running almost all day, a second one running 4-6 hours a day. LED bulbs in every fixture, one PC on 24 hours a day. Big "American" refrigerator and a two person jacuzzi tub used once a week or so but no other real energy hogs.

One thing which raised it from the 6k bill last month was a 750watt inverter water pump whose impeller blades destroyed themselves so the pump ran almost constantly.

Someone mentioned that a 1hp pool pump consumes 1500 watts and I disagree. One HP is 770 watts and even with a low efficiency motor it's not going to use even 900 watts.

[Tapster]

@DrDave

The LEDs I ended up using were Philips, but I'm sure any name brand would do.

They have performed faultlessly in the year I've had them, while all that time the cheapies have been getting steadily dimmer. Grrr!

I'm afraid I don't have a note of the unsatisfactory Chinese brand. My experience says it's probably worth paying more and getting a known brand, unless you know someone who's had no problems with a particular brand of cheapies.

Good luck

Fiat lux!!

[Aj Mick]

Probably not average, but about right for what the OP is running going on a recent conversation withe several others. High power bills are for rich folks to whinge about.

For me…… about 3 - 400 baht a month @ the landlord's rate of 7 baht per unit.

Living in a well ventilated apartment with good natural light, I don't need air-con or even a fan, or daytime electric lighting. A change to an LED computer monitor and LED lightbulbs resulted in a useful drop in the power bill.

[The Big Mango]

No aircon I can understand , but not even a fan ???

[CGW]

Bill sounds about right, we are a little higher, my only question would be why do you run the pool pump for so many hours? Unless it is a huge pool I can't see why you would need to run so long, I run our salt water pool 4 hours a day ~35,000 liters with no problems, generates enough chlorine and stays clean.

[Tapster]

@CGW

You're right!

We have a 45,000 litre pool. It has salt-water chlorination.

Honestly, I've had the pump on for ten hours a day (two sessions of five hours) because that's what I thought was correct, after reading on Internet sites and advice from pool shops.

If the figures given in post #4 above are correct, I'm spending 1,000 THB/month on the pool pump.

If I monitor the pool more closely, I can find out the effect of pump times on chlorine levels. I might save a few bob.

Thanks!

[CGW]

^ Try running part of the time at night if noise isn't a problem, chlorine levels will get higher as not destroyed by sunlight.

Cheers