New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[chiang mai]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

Absolute rubbish yet again, the reasons were set out succinctly in the editorial that was posted, anything you heard and saw on the media is superfluous and of course, out of context, again. When asked what he thought of Camerons position in the event of Brexit, the reply came, I can’t see David Cameron surviving. When asked about the economy in the event of Brexit, the reply came back as you posted, people underestimating the severity.

As for newspapers and contributions to the debate: if you want fact, read a factual newspaper or periodical, don't read Desmond or Murdoch because they're in the business of selling tabloid copy by any means, fact is not important for either of them. Posting links to tabloids get that post ignored by most people who can think or who are in search of facts.

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

Blah blah blah, you and your famous question - I haven't ignored your question, I've told you I'm not interested in answering it. And I'm not interested in having a debate about economics with somebody who doesn't even know what the word means. So no, there will be no discussion between us and I care not a jot what conclusions you want to draw because given your track record in this thread, I am confident they will be the wrong ones, again.

And whilst posting, is it really necessary for you to post a reply to every single post in this thread, can you not just say what you have to say and be done from time to time!

Edited June 16, 2016 by chiang mai

[kingalfred]

There is no "reformed EU"

as Cameron et al keep spouting. It's incapable of reform and its marching on to full federalism. Fact is the EU commission have been holding back on more of its dictats in last 2 months for fear of being exposed for what it is. A bureaucratic centralised monstrosity !

Edited June 16, 2016 by kingalfred

[dick dasterdly]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

Absolute rubbish yet again, the reasons were set out succinctly in the editorial that was posted, anything you heard and saw on the media is superfluous and of course, out of context, again. When asked what he thought of Camerons position in the event of Brexit, the reply came, I can’t see David Cameron surviving. When asked about the economy in the event of Brexit, the reply came back as you posted, people underestimating the severity.

As for newspapers and contributions to the debate: if you want fact, read a factual newspaper or periodical, don't read Desmond or Murdoch because they're in the business of selling tabloid copy by any means, fact is not important for either of them. Posting links to tabloids get that post ignored by most people who can think or who are in search of facts.

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

Blah blah blah, you and your famous question - I haven't ignored your question, I've told you I'm not interested in answering it. And I'm not interested in having a debate about economics with somebody who doesn't even know what the word means. So no, there will be no discussion between us and I care not a jot what conclusions you want to draw because given your track record in this thread, I am confident they will be the wrong ones, again.

Interesting stance, and not one that is going to convince anyone.

[chiang mai]

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

Blah blah blah, you and your famous question - I haven't ignored your question, I've told you I'm not interested in answering it. And I'm not interested in having a debate about economics with somebody who doesn't even know what the word means. So no, there will be no discussion between us and I care not a jot what conclusions you want to draw because given your track record in this thread, I am confident they will be the wrong ones, again.

Interesting stance, and not one that is going to convince anyone.

Ask me if I care, I'm tired of the same billious spew, page after page without even a slight hint of balanced untwisted fact.

[SgtRock]

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

Blah blah blah, you and your famous question - I haven't ignored your question, I've told you I'm not interested in answering it. And I'm not interested in having a debate about economics with somebody who doesn't even know what the word means. So no, there will be no discussion between us and I care not a jot what conclusions you want to draw because given your track record in this thread, I am confident they will be the wrong ones, again.

Interesting stance, and not one that is going to convince anyone.

Ask me if I care, I'm tired of the same billious spew, page after page without even a slight hint of balanced untwisted fact.

But here you are. I am offering to take the debate away from the press and directly into the heart of the EU.

I have offered you a whole raft of new topics based on facts to open the discussion to get away from the same old, same old.

Let's talk ECB and Monetary Union.

Lets talk true EU membership costs.

And you do not want to hear it.

How strange.

[kingalfred]

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

Blah blah blah, you and your famous question - I haven't ignored your question, I've told you I'm not interested in answering it. And I'm not interested in having a debate about economics with somebody who doesn't even know what the word means. So no, there will be no discussion between us and I care not a jot what conclusions you want to draw because given your track record in this thread, I am confident they will be the wrong ones, again.

Interesting stance, and not one that is going to convince anyone.

Ask me if I care, I'm tired of the same billious spew, page after page without even a slight hint of balanced untwisted fact.

"unbalanced and twisted" yup that's Remain crowd with CM in tow!

[allanos]

" Remain is tearing itself apart. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/the-europhiles-have-finally-snapped-and-brexit-is-looking-more-l/

I enjoyed this piece in the "Telegraph"; thanks for posting it.

I believe that history will record that David Cameron called the Brexit referendum at the correct juncture, at the right time.

albeit for the wrong reasons, and that the United Kingdom was, ultimately, better for it. A serendipitous or fortuitous

outcome for the British people.

[WhamBam]

For those predicting doom and gloom for the UK economy after BREXIT ....

Germany’s Largest Bank Says Massive UK Growth After Brexit – BBC and Remainers Silent

Germany’s largest bank has predicted British stocks will be the best performing in the continent and top UK firms will outperform EU rivals by as much as 5 per cent after a Brexit

Link here

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/15/germans-largest-bank-says-massive-uk-grown-brexit-bbc-remainers-silent/

[Asiantravel]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

Absolute rubbish yet again, the reasons were set out succinctly in the editorial that was posted, anything you heard and saw on the media is superfluous and of course, out of context, again. When asked what he thought of Camerons position in the event of Brexit, the reply came, I can’t see David Cameron surviving. When asked about the economy in the event of Brexit, the reply came back as you posted, people underestimating the severity.

As for newspapers and contributions to the debate: if you want fact, read a factual newspaper or periodical, don't read Desmond or Murdoch because they're in the business of selling tabloid copy by any means, fact is not important for either of them. Posting links to tabloids get that post ignored by most people who can think or who are in search of facts.

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

At this point I think Chaing Mai sounds very much like Ed Vaizey in that interview with Andrew Neil in Post number 984 -nothing but hot air

[Asiantravel]

" Remain is tearing itself apart. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/the-europhiles-have-finally-snapped-and-brexit-is-looking-more-l/

I enjoyed this piece in the "Telegraph"; thanks for posting it.

I believe that history will record that David Cameron called the Brexit referendum at the correct juncture, at the right time.

albeit for the wrong reasons, and that the United Kingdom was, ultimately, better for it. A serendipitous or fortuitous

outcome for the British people.

yes indeed and it was as if that street party they held on The Mall last Sunday( even though it was raining) was not only to celebrate the Queen but to simultaneously celebrate in advance that the British people saw through lies and deception

[allanos]

Here is a link to an interesting article on the BBC website. Copy and paste it into your browser.

Mr Klesch is a billionaire industrialist who has "been there, done that, and got the t-shirt", which is

diametrically opposed to the pronouncements of the theoretical economists at such places as the BOE,

IMF and World Bank.

Read what his opinions are about Brexit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36546888

[DUS]

For those predicting doom and gloom for the UK economy after BREXIT ....

Germany’s Largest Bank Says Massive UK Growth After Brexit – BBC and Remainers Silent

Germany’s largest bank has predicted British stocks will be the best performing in the continent and top UK firms will outperform EU rivals by as much as 5 per cent after a Brexit

Link here

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/15/germans-largest-bank-says-massive-uk-grown-brexit-bbc-remainers-silent/

Makes me smile ....

Nowhere did Deutsche speak of "massive growth".... and before stockpickers get too excited by

"Deutsche Bank concludes: “In the case of a Leave vote in the UK referendum (a scenario to which bookmakers’ odds attribute a 30 per cent probability), we expect UK equities to outperform the European market, given GBP downside in such a scenario as well as the market’s defensive sector structure.”

let me tell you that outperforming does not mean the Footsie will increase in value. Just saying...... And if we expats then convert our pounds into TBH then we´ll have no reason to rejoice either.....

[brewsterbudgen]

The very inept president of the US thinks the Brits should keep their boat tied to the sinking EU ship. That alone should be enough for you to vote OUT.

Inept? He's been far better than his predecessor and if you want to see inept, just wait for President Donald!

[happy Joe]

The opinion of a non-Columbia European.

The UK is a pestilential force for the rest of Europe and this one will be much better without the British. As it stands, Europe can not achieve the reforms which it badly needs. One of the main reasons for this failure is the negative influence of the UK who wants a Europe confined to the service of financial markets.

Of course, France has wanted the British remain in the EU to limit the power of Germany. And the US are pushing for the UK remains in Europe, because that is their pawn in the system, allowing them to control it remotely. In the end all major institutions are against.

And that is why I am for.

[DUS]

Given the high emotions especially amongst those voting to leave, I wonder how the Brexiteers will react if Britain votes to remain in the EU. I´d say that only a low single digit percentage number will accept it. The rest will start swearing and conjuring up conspiracy theories that will keep all of us entertained for weeks and months to come.... ;-))

I can´t wait ....

[brewsterbudgen]

Given the high emotions especially amongst those voting to leave, I wonder how the Brexiteers will react if Britain votes to remain in the EU. I´d say that only a low single digit percentage number will accept it. The rest will start swearing and conjuring up conspiracy theories that will keep all of us entertained for weeks and months to come.... ;-))

I can´t wait ....

Even more entertaining, will their reaction to a Brexit win, followed by 2 years of negotiating our exit, resulting in improved terms and a second referendum!

[SgtRock]

Jeremy Clarkson has just came out in favour of remain with a very confusing and contradictory statement.

When Mr Cameron was touring Europe recently, seeking a better deal for Britain by sucking up to the leaders of such places as Romania and Hungary, I watched on YouTube an MEP called Daniel Hannan make an anti-EU speech to a group of, I think, students. It was brilliant. One of the best speeches I’ve ever heard. And, I’ll admit, it made me question my beliefs. But despite his clever, reasoned and passionate plea for us to leave Europe, I’m still in. He talked sense, but a lot of this debate is about how we feel.

In 1973 my parents held a Common Market party. They’d lived through the war, and for them it seemed a good idea to form closer ties with our endlessly troublesome neighbours. For me, however, it was a chance to make flags out of coloured felt and to eat exotic foods such as sausage and pasta. I felt very European that night, and I still do.

Whether I’m sitting in a railway concourse in Brussels or pottering down the canals of southwestern France or hurtling along a motorway in Croatia, I feel way more at home than I do when I’m trying to get something to eat in Dallas or Sacramento. I love Europe, and to me that’s important.

I’m the first to acknowledge that so far the EU hasn’t really worked. We still don’t have standardised electrical sockets, and every member state is still out for itself, not the common good. This is the sort of thing that causes many people to think, “Well, let’s just leave and look after ourselves in future.”

I get that. I really do. And after I’d watched Hannan’s speech, that’s briefly how I felt too. But, actually, isn’t it better to stay in and try to make the damn thing work properly? To create a United States of Europe that functions as well as the United States of America? With one army and one currency and one unifying set of values?

Britain, on its own, has little influence on the world stage. I think we are all agreed on that. But Europe, if it were well run and had cohesive, well thought-out policies, would be a tremendous force for good. I think we are all agreed on that as well. So how do we turn Europe from the shambles it is now into the beacon of civilisation that it could be in the future?

At least he is honest about what he wants as a remainer. A United States of Europe.

Other than that he does not really have a good word to say about the EU, and is banking on the EU changing. We all know that the EU is only for changing into Federal State of Europe and all that will entail.

[Thaiwine]

Jeremy Clarkson has just came out in favour of remain with a very confusing and contradictory statement.

When Mr Cameron was touring Europe recently, seeking a better deal for Britain by sucking up to the leaders of such places as Romania and Hungary, I watched on YouTube an MEP called Daniel Hannan make an anti-EU speech to a group of, I think, students. It was brilliant. One of the best speeches I’ve ever heard. And, I’ll admit, it made me question my beliefs. But despite his clever, reasoned and passionate plea for us to leave Europe, I’m still in. He talked sense, but a lot of this debate is about how we feel.

In 1973 my parents held a Common Market party. They’d lived through the war, and for them it seemed a good idea to form closer ties with our endlessly troublesome neighbours. For me, however, it was a chance to make flags out of coloured felt and to eat exotic foods such as sausage and pasta. I felt very European that night, and I still do.

Whether I’m sitting in a railway concourse in Brussels or pottering down the canals of southwestern France or hurtling along a motorway in Croatia, I feel way more at home than I do when I’m trying to get something to eat in Dallas or Sacramento. I love Europe, and to me that’s important.

I’m the first to acknowledge that so far the EU hasn’t really worked. We still don’t have standardised electrical sockets, and every member state is still out for itself, not the common good. This is the sort of thing that causes many people to think, “Well, let’s just leave and look after ourselves in future.”

I get that. I really do. And after I’d watched Hannan’s speech, that’s briefly how I felt too. But, actually, isn’t it better to stay in and try to make the damn thing work properly? To create a United States of Europe that functions as well as the United States of America? With one army and one currency and one unifying set of values?

Britain, on its own, has little influence on the world stage. I think we are all agreed on that. But Europe, if it were well run and had cohesive, well thought-out policies, would be a tremendous force for good. I think we are all agreed on that as well. So how do we turn Europe from the shambles it is now into the beacon of civilisation that it could be in the future?

At least he is honest about what he wants as a remainer. A United States of Europe.

Other than that he does not really have a good word to say about the EU, and is banking on the EU changing. We all know that the EU is only for changing into Federal State of Europe and all that will entail.

I have worked in the motor trade for most of my working life, I have always regarded him as a prat.

[allanos]

Jeremy Clarkson has just came out in favour of remain with a very confusing and contradictory statement.

When Mr Cameron was touring Europe recently, seeking a better deal for Britain by sucking up to the leaders of such places as Romania and Hungary, I watched on YouTube an MEP called Daniel Hannan make an anti-EU speech to a group of, I think, students. It was brilliant. One of the best speeches I’ve ever heard. And, I’ll admit, it made me question my beliefs. But despite his clever, reasoned and passionate plea for us to leave Europe, I’m still in. He talked sense, but a lot of this debate is about how we feel.

In 1973 my parents held a Common Market party. They’d lived through the war, and for them it seemed a good idea to form closer ties with our endlessly troublesome neighbours. For me, however, it was a chance to make flags out of coloured felt and to eat exotic foods such as sausage and pasta. I felt very European that night, and I still do.

Whether I’m sitting in a railway concourse in Brussels or pottering down the canals of southwestern France or hurtling along a motorway in Croatia, I feel way more at home than I do when I’m trying to get something to eat in Dallas or Sacramento. I love Europe, and to me that’s important.

I’m the first to acknowledge that so far the EU hasn’t really worked. We still don’t have standardised electrical sockets, and every member state is still out for itself, not the common good. This is the sort of thing that causes many people to think, “Well, let’s just leave and look after ourselves in future.”

I get that. I really do. And after I’d watched Hannan’s speech, that’s briefly how I felt too. But, actually, isn’t it better to stay in and try to make the damn thing work properly? To create a United States of Europe that functions as well as the United States of America? With one army and one currency and one unifying set of values?

Britain, on its own, has little influence on the world stage. I think we are all agreed on that. But Europe, if it were well run and had cohesive, well thought-out policies, would be a tremendous force for good. I think we are all agreed on that as well. So how do we turn Europe from the shambles it is now into the beacon of civilisation that it could be in the future?

At least he is honest about what he wants as a remainer. A United States of Europe.

Other than that he does not really have a good word to say about the EU, and is banking on the EU changing. We all know that the EU is only for changing into Federal State of Europe and all that will entail.

Daniel Hannan is a very eloquent Brexiteer. Below is the link to the talk which Jeremy was referring to, possibly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YNcF3h3NgQ

[SgtRock]

Kudos to Boris Johnston who has just suspended the leave campaign due to the shooting of MP Jo Cox.

It might be a poignant moment to suspend both campaigns at this juncture. It is unlikely that much will be achieved between now and referendum day except create more division and angst.

Over to you Cameron.

[Orac]

Reports that Stronger In campaign has been suspended after Labour MP shot and stabbed in West Yorkshire.

[SgtRock]

Reports that Stronger In campaign has been suspended after Labour MP shot and stabbed in West Yorkshire.

Our posts crossed

[SheungWan]

When reading this thread you might be forgiven to think that Brexit is a done deal and that a clear majority will vote to leave the EU.

Question: With most of the posters in this thread being very, very passionate about Brexit and expressing very stark anti EU opinions what would you do or say if the bookies are correct and that the majority will vote to remain?

Well, the Brexiteers although licking their political wounds would be assuaged by the strong bounce in Sterling. However they would rather celebrate a political victory with a collapse in real terms for their sterling pensions. That's the point with this lot. Bit of a shame really. Expect the usual sterling will bounce back nonsense but they are set for a personal financial bath.

[brewsterbudgen]

Reports that Stronger In campaign has been suspended after Labour MP shot and stabbed in West Yorkshire.

And sadly died.

[SheungWan]

Here is a simple take on things.

UK exits the EU

Sterling drops by 10%

Exporters are charged 5% to 10 % tariffs by EU countries - I don't believe this will happen but there is a contra there. 10% gain on exchange rate with 10% tariff

So far the exporters don't gain/lose

Now look at the consumer

We exit the EU and sterling drops 10%

However, we remove all tariffs on all countries across the world.

Prices go up 10% due to the exchange rate but fall in real terms due to the tariffs being reduced to ALL countries.

We could now see 5 to 10% reduction in prices for consumers.

Therefore the consumers are now happy & the economy should grow

UK is approx 65% consumption, 30 % exports so the consumer gains outweigh the contra on exporters.

Add to this 10 billion we save from EU fees, access to our waters to fish again (hopefully) & we should thrive. Take the shackles off the UK.

Migrants we still come to support our economy, but we will have a bit more control than we do now.

We also become masters of our own destiny again & get rid of all those faceless bureaucrats.

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Well here's one economist who used to advise the Beurocrats in Brussels. He even mentions the currency,which may be informative to C.M.

http://shr.gs/2LI1fRL

Is that the best you can come up with? He works at BPP University some second rate gaff in of all places Shepherd's Bush Third tier maybe.

[sandyf]

My wife and I are enjoying what may be well her last visa as the spouse of an EU citizen. temps in the low 30's and with low humidity makes it very pleasant.

I fail to understand how anyone with any self respect can advocate leaving the EU and remain a member of this forum.

[slipperylobster]

British lawmaker shot and stabbed in related incident. (Jo Cox)

(Where did the gun come from???)

Edited June 16, 2016 by slipperylobster

[chiang mai]

Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley has been shot and killed by a man shouting, "Britain First". Wow!

Condolences to her family and friends and sympathies to the people of Batley.

[tom21]

well the pound has gone up in value so the gensral view is that the brexit vote may have dropped

[BaldPlumber]

My wife and I are enjoying what may be well her last visa as the spouse of an EU citizen. temps in the low 30's and with low humidity makes it very pleasant.

I fail to understand how anyone with any self respect can advocate leaving the EU and remain a member of this forum.

Why should anyone's opinion about the UK's relationship with the EU, or incidentally, your holiday plans have any bearing whatsoever on their membership of this forum?