Their visibility belies scorn, harm transgender Thais face

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Their visibility belies scorn, harm transgender Thais face
NATNICHA CHUWIRUCH, Associated Press


BANGKOK (AP) — The most dangerous place in high school for Jetsada Taesombat was the boys' bathroom. Her makeup, her lipstick, her accessories became signals to fellow students who targeted her with cruel jokes, insults and physical abuse. But Jetsada refused to hide her transgender identity.

The visibility of transgender people, especially in Bangkok, might make Thailand appear more liberal than other countries regarding their identity. But the reality, they say, is that transgender Thais face deep discrimination, scorn and aggression. Often, it happens in bathrooms, where closed doors and expectations of privacy ensure secrecy for the perpetrators.

When Jetsada complained to her teacher that she had been sexually harassed in the bathroom, the teacher blamed it on her makeup. When she appealed the teacher to act, the teacher said the harassment was a consequence of being a sexual deviant.

"Growing up in an all-boys school, I didn't feel comfortable going into the boys' toilet," said Jetsada, now 32. "I was afraid for my life. I was afraid of getting bullied or sexually harassed."

Jetsada always chose to use the girls' bathroom, despite the risk of being scolded or reprimanded. Facing a teacher's wrath was the better option. If she couldn't get access to the girls' toilet, Jetsada would wait until school ended or she brought a transgender friend to stand guard in the boys' bathroom.

Transgender Thais say the situation here is similar to the United States, where conflicting state laws and federal policy on the matter are being hotly debated. Lawsuits have been filed to challenge the Obama administration's directive allowing transgender people to use bathrooms matching their gender identity, as well as a North Carolina law requiring people to use bathrooms of their birth gender.

In Thailand, the discrimination partly comes from religious beliefs about sexual behavior.

Most Thais are Buddhists, who are supposed to live by the Five Moral Precepts — the third of them being to avoid sexual misconduct. People born with the wrong gender identity are believed to have brought it on themselves by sinning in a past life. Thais also consider a transgender life miserable because they think a person born in the wrong body won't find love.

Transgender people appear to be able to live openly in the Thai capital, attracting little attention on the streets and in restaurants and shopping malls. But the country does not legally recognize gender changes, same-sex marriages, adoptions by same-sex parents or commercial surrogacy.

Discrimination in employment, the provision of goods and services, hate speech and crimes were made illegal only last September when the Gender Equality Act became effective. Before 2015, transgender people had no laws to protect them against being unjustly turned down for a job or harassed.

And transgender people are still targets of violence.

A research project by Transgender Europe on killings of trans and gender-diverse people in 65 countries, counted 137 reported murders of transgender people in North America from January 2008 to December 2015.

Thailand has only seen 14, but the number is deceptive. Police in Thailand, as well as in many countries, often identify victims as men, rather than transgender, according to Jetsada, who now is executive director and co-founder of the Thai Transgender Alliance, which works to raise awareness and understanding about the identities and rights of transgender people in Thailand.

"Even though many foreigners think we're LGBT-friendly in Thailand, there's still so much violence and hatred toward us," said a government liaison officer, Chinnarat Buttho.

"Although in high school, I had not started dressing as a woman, I always knew that my heart was one of a woman's. But I was always taught by society's rules that I have to go to the boy's room. I looked like a boy but I showed female mannerisms. I was bullied a lot because of it."

Chinnarat, now 32, started dressing as a woman when she pursued a master's degree, and her friends and family have become more comfortable and accepting of her choice. She has not used the men's bathroom since then.

Many transgender people, despite holding university degrees, are unable to find work in their respective fields, said Jetsada.

"Many people I know still struggle with discrimination at job interviews; many times they don't get hired because of their identity," said Jetsada. "When faced with the question of whether they're willing to cut their hair short, stop wearing makeup, act like a man for a job, many are unable to disclaim and lie about their identity. The sex industry becomes their only option."

Chinnarat and Jetsada believe that allowing a transgender person to use the bathroom where they feel most comfortable is a decision that would lead to a more inclusive and accepting society.

"How do you live in the same world with people who have such differing opinions and perspectives from yourself?" asked Jetsada. "You teach people ways to coexist and in the long run, just hope that it gets better."

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-05

[Bluespunk]

Discrimination everywhere when it comes to transgender women.

Look at some of the comments being posted on the thread concerning the murder of a transgender woman by her scum bag ex boyfriend.

[ratcatcher]

Discrimination everywhere when it comes to transgender women.

Look at some of the comments being posted on the thread concerning the murder of a transgender woman by her scum bag ex boyfriend.

Is there the same discrimination against "Toms", women who are lesbians and prefer other women as companions?

Thai TV programs feature katoeys in outrageous make-up and camp situations, but the Thais seem to love their style.

Personally, I am tolerant to gays, lesbians and whatever in-betweens there are.

They never bother me and Thailand is one of the more tolerant nations towards transgender people.

[LannaGuy]

Discrimination everywhere when it comes to transgender women.

Look at some of the comments being posted on the thread concerning the murder of a transgender woman by her scum bag ex boyfriend.

I agree totally and, in my view, the scum should forfeit his life

PS thanks for the correct ID 'ex-boyfriend'

[thai3]

I like gays and transgenders, no problems at all. However on a few occasions I have found Toms to be rather aggressive, some are man haters which seems odd as they try to be like males.

[dcnx]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

[Enoon]

I like gays and transgenders, no problems at all. However on a few occasions I have found Toms to be rather aggressive, some are man haters which seems odd as they try to be like males.

They are adopting what they perceive to be an "ultra-male" persona in order to reinforce their masculine identity. Such a persona consists of exaggerated and stereotypical "male" traits such as aggression, assertiveness, competitiveness, aloofness/hostility.

They demonstrate them toward "threats", i.e other Toms and males, who would steal their womenfolk or possibly undermine (in the case of males) their sense of masculine authenticity.

Maybe?

PS I have known a couple of fairly "Tomish" women (one a chef and one a taxi-rider) but they seemed just like regular friendly guys.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Enoon

[poohy]

"Toms" IMHO want shooting they are usually most unpleasant creatures

[SABloke]

"Toms" IMHO want shooting they are usually most unpleasant creatures

Indeed...as stated before they act in the way they think men should act, based on very superficial traits i.e. talk aggressively, slouch their arms over chairs in restaurants, spread their legs way too wide when they sit and generally treat their girlfriends like crap.

Now before the PC brigade (I'm a card carrying member get up in arms this has nothing to do with sexuality...gays, lesbians, transgender, straight, bi: everyone is welcome at my house... Mysoginistic <deleted> are not: ''Toms" and the Chang Wife Beater wearing brigade et al can stay the fukc away >_>

[Jingthing]

It's my impression that Thai "Toms" are not transgender men.

Instead, they are masculine presenting LESBIANS that gender identify as women.

Masculine WOMEN but still WOMEN.

Usually, their sexual objects of desire are feminine presenting women (who may or may not be exclusively lesbian, doesn't matter).

The western equivalent would be BUTCH lesbians or (sorry) bull dykes.

TRANSGENDER MEN are something different.

In other words ... born female, grows up to GENDER identify as male, may be sexually interested in males, females, both, or either.

Perhaps people are confused because transgender women are so very common in Thailand, but transgender men, like everywhere else, are more rare.

Sexual orientation and gender identification aren't the same thing.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaiduncankk]

Tom relationships are normally all about control, hence their aggression in certain instances.

I knew quite a few girls, who after a bad relationship with a Thai guy, fell for the charms of preying Toms.

When the novelty wore off, and they decided they wanted to finish with the Tom, and go back to a normal heterosexual relationship with a male, all of them were bombarded with threats of violence by the Tom, towards them, and even their families.

[Jingthing]

As opposed to abnormal heterosexual relationships?

[thaiduncankk]

As opposed to abnormal heterosexual relationships?

The way I was brought up, a heterosexual relationship is normal.

[Jingthing]

As opposed to abnormal heterosexual relationships?

The way I was brought up, a heterosexual relationship is normal.

So gays are sexual deviants?

[Wilsonandson]

As opposed to abnormal heterosexual relationships?

The way I was brought up, a heterosexual relationship is normal.

What is normal?

[thaiduncankk]

As opposed to abnormal heterosexual relationships?

The way I was brought up, a heterosexual relationship is normal.

So gays are sexual deviants?

I did not come here for an argument, you asked a question, and I answered it.

[Jingthing]

I found it odd ... why even add the word normal. You can just say heterosexual.

[BB24]

There is also a seperate post/discussion going on now about Obama's stupid decree forcing schools to allow TGs to use any toilet they choose - as in the story.

As in the case here, and as per the case in USA - the clear answer/solution is to allow TGs to use the handicapped toilets (and here make all Thai schools have them).

Forcing TGs in Thailand to use the boys (or girls) will cause problems in many places - children can be absolute aholes.

Even worse is the situation in USA where they are trying to make TGs use the boys/girls for political reasons (and will cause a backlash against some), when many are happy to use to Handicapped.

[Jingthing]

The transgender girl in the OP was very clear that she was much safer using the girls toilets but the problem was that it was against the school rules. It obviously shouldn't be against the school rules.

[Bluespunk]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

[thaiduncankk]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

Balls

[bobbin]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

Balls

Gotta love a cogent argument.....

[Bluespunk]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

Balls

Such eloquence.

[kingalfred]

My understanding is the "five moral precepts of Buddhism" had been updated over recent times with the behavior of its messengers.I could enlighten you but ....perhaps not!

[LannaGuy]

Tom relationships are normally all about control, hence their aggression in certain instances.

I knew quite a few girls, who after a bad relationship with a Thai guy, fell for the charms of preying Toms.

When the novelty wore off, and they decided they wanted to finish with the Tom, and go back to a normal heterosexual relationship with a male, all of them were bombarded with threats of violence by the Tom, towards them, and even their families.

I asked a girl who had been in 3 relationships with a Tom 'why?' and is it 'about sex?' and the answer was very simple she had been hurt by some guy in the past and the Toms all 'looked after' her and nothing at all about the sex side

I do agree , though, that Toms are quite often VERY aggressive as are many Katoeys

[awayego]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

Balls

Ah, the voice of reason!

By implication then, you are saying that to teach acceptance of people for WHO they are, not WHAT you think they are, is wrong?

Yet another who likes to live in a blinkered world of black and white!

Vive la difference!

[thaiduncankk]

Sorry, but if you are in an all boys school and you choose to wear make up and act like a girl, you asked for it.

You go to school to learn, NOT parade your sexuality. Put on your girlie clothes and make up when you get home.

And one of the things you should learn in school is to accept people for who they are and not what you think they should be.

Balls

Ah, the voice of reason!

By implication then, you are saying that to teach acceptance of people for WHO they are, not WHAT you think they are, is wrong?

Yet another who likes to live in a blinkered world of black and white!

Vive la difference!

Acceptance was never used when most of us went to school.

A male is born a male, and a female is born a female, fact.

[awayego]

Acceptance was never used when most of us went to school.

A male is born a male, and a female is born a female, fact.

Perhaps ‘acceptance’ isn’t the right word but it was the one you used.

‘Respect’ and ‘tolerance’ for others who may be seen as ‘different’ might be more appropriate.

The “fact” of being born only male or female is a distinction that has little relevance to those driven

to depart from the ‘norm’.

Whilst you may not ‘accept’ their choices, as fellow humans they are deserving of the same respect

and tolerance afforded to the rest of us (unless of course our behaviour and actions make us UNdeserving).

Live and let live is all I’m saying.

[mesterm]

Balls

Ah, the voice of reason!

By implication then, you are saying that to teach acceptance of people for WHO they are, not WHAT you think they are, is wrong?

Yet another who likes to live in a blinkered world of black and white!

Vive la difference!

Acceptance was never used when most of us went to school.

A male is born a male, and a female is born a female, fact.

Yeah let's put them in chambers and gas them all!

[thaiduncankk]

Acceptance was never used when most of us went to school.

A male is born a male, and a female is born a female, fact.

Perhaps acceptance isnt the right word but it was the one you used.

Respect and tolerance for others who may be seen as different might be more appropriate.

The fact of being born only male or female is a distinction that has little relevance to those driven

to depart from the norm.

Whilst you may not accept their choices, as fellow humans they are deserving of the same respect

and tolerance afforded to the rest of us (unless of course our behaviour and actions make us UNdeserving).

Live and let live is all Im saying.

The word 'acceptance' was first used in post #26, posted by yourself.