Many lives lost in Orlando nightclub shooting

[Jingthing]

The White House will be endorsing the "hate crime" angle to change the media narrative away from more negative Islam news.

This isn't a "hate crime"?

In the U.S. hate crime often has a specific legal meaning.

I think the distinction here is whether it was terrorism or not.

I think terrorism trumps a regular hate crime as far as seriousness and severity.

This appears to probably be terrorism.

Some homophobic teenager beats up a gay man in a park and yells anti-gay verbal slurs at him during the attack, that's a hate crime.

This was well organized mass murder and there is already evidence the shooter had sympathies towards Islamic terrorism.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I want to inject something that hasn't been mentioned in the press yet.

Most likely, some (or even many) of those at the club, killed, injured, or unhurt were not "out" to important people in their lives, at work, their family, friends, or maybe some to their wives.

I heard the police want everyone who was there even those who left before the event to contact them and make a statement.

I suppose they want to make sure there weren't other terrorists involved, etc.

As far as those that were murdered by the terrorist, I hope that we will see all of their pictures in the press, just as we would in with the victims of any terrorist event like this.

But imagine that for some of those murdered, this might be their "coming out" time as well to people very close to them.

Something to consider in this different kind of case. The gay angle.

Jingthing, this is not 1985 <deleted>

You're very naive.

Many GLBT Americans are still in the closet to people they are close to and/or at work.

In some ETHNIC American communities, it's just really really hard to come out to family. The USA population is very diverse. It isn't one culture.

My point really is that whether some were in the closet or not (I reckon some almost definitely were, especially younger people) that I want their identities and pictures shown in the press just like anyone else. It's something to watch ... will some families suppress that, and should they be able to?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

Bad news.

Not 20 dead.

FIFTY dead.

So the biggest terrorist event in the USA since 9-11.

But we still need to accept more unscreened muslim migrants into the United States and Trump's idea to keep them out until proprer screening mechanisms are in place is just plain racism right?

no, you need to stop selling guns to everybody. you can't kill 50 people with a knife. but the US will never le learn

[kingalfred]

An.American.citizen with access to an automatic weapon, nothing new there.And nothing is done to restrict people getting weapons of war. Failed state

[geriatrickid]

This is an odd one for the gun lobbyists . Not a single person there had a gun ?

It is likely a gun free place. Just one armed person could have made a big difference. The last one in Kalifornia was a gun free place.

You just couldn't resist could you? You don't know the facts, but you just had to push your personal agenda, right?

The gunman was stopped by an armed police office OUTSIDE the night club at 2 AM. The armed police officer was working at the club. They exchanged gunfire, but the gunman had an AR 15, for which he had a license. He had no criminal record. He started firing and kept on firing clearing a path through to the club. Other police officers arrived and exchanged fire with him resulting in their being injured, including one who was hit in his protective helmet.

If an armed police officer was unable to immediately stop him, and if a highly trained SWAT team was unable to stop him, and qualified trained police officers were quickly on scene and could not stop this, it is unreasonable to expect that patrons in a dark, noisy night club would have been able to quickly stop him.

You really must be devoid of common sense if you believe that night club patrons who are more likely than not to be drinking alcohol are qualified for close range night condition combat.

Focus on how someone was able to legally obtain an AR 15 and high volume bullet clips. Ponder that first.

Edited June 12, 2016 by geriatrickid

[metisdead]

Posts commenting on moderation have been removed.

[Andaman Al]

The White House will be endorsing the "hate crime" angle to change the media narrative away from more negative Islam news.

This isn't a "hate crime"?

In the U.S. hate crime often has a specific legal meaning.

I think the distinction here is whether it was terrorism or not.

I think terrorism trumps a regular hate crime as far as seriousness and severity.

This appears to probably be terrorism.

Some homophobic teenager beats up a gay man in a park and yells anti-gay verbal slurs at him during the attack, that's a hate crime.

This was well organized mass murder and there is already evidence the shooter had sympathies towards Islamic terrorism.

So how 'serious and severe' does it get when you have just whacked 50 people? How does it appear 'probably to be terrorism'? what evidence so far Sherlock? Why not a hate crime, maybe he just hated gays. Either way it does not reduce the 'severity' of what he has done does it?

[Jingthing]

There is talk now, and there should be, how the ideology of radical Islam (which does have at least the sympathies of a shockingly high percentage of the world's Muslims) does indeed favor death for homosexuality, and in some cases, are carrying that out.

But I feel it should also be noted it's not only Islamists that use religion to favor death for gays and also sometimes carry it out motivated by religions other than Islam.

Example, death penalty laws in some African nations justified by Christianity.

Brazil ... hundreds of gays murdered by police for decades. "Good" Christians.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[mcfish]

This is an odd one for the gun lobbyists . Not a single person there had a gun ?

It is likely a gun free place. Just one armed person could have made a big difference. The last one in Kalifornia was a gun free place.

You just couldn't resist could you? You don't know the facts, but you just had to push your personal agenda, right?

The gunman was stopped by an armed police office OUTSIDE the night club at 2 AM. The armed police officer was working at the club. They exchanged gunfire, but the gunman had an AR 15, for which he had a license. He had no criminal record. He started firing and kept on firing. Other police officers exchanged fire with him resulting in their being injured, including one who was hit in his protective helmet.

If an armed police officer was unable to immediately stop him, and if a highly trained SWAT team was unable to stop him, it is unreasonable to expect that patrons in a dark, noisy night club would have been able to quickly stop him.

You really must be devoid of common sense if you believe that night club patrons who are more likely than not to be drinking alcohol are qualified for close range night condition combat.

I would have thought that anyone near him could have fired a round off easily considering he cant have eyes everywhere. It wasn't too dark if he killed shot 50

[NovaBlue05]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

This is all the two candidate will be grilled on between now and the Convention. It clearly plays more favorably in Trumps position than Clinton's. Another reason why Josh Ernest is probably tutoring the mainstream media this morning on the proper narrative going forward. Like the Ft Hood killings, it will certainly have nothing to do with Islam.

[mcfish]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

Not really. "All US born Muslims need to be rounded up and jailed until we can work out what the hell is going on"

[Wilsonandson]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

[JetsetBkk]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

This is all the two candidate will be grilled on between now and the Convention. It clearly plays more favorably in Trumps position than Clinton's. Another reason why Josh Ernest <snip>

Him and Jay Carney - two of the biggest liars spin doctors the world has ever seen.

[Jingthing]

It's impossible to prevent all such incidents. Even the Israelis in Tel Aviv far from the "front" can't do that. But expect the USA to become even more of a security state at many more public spaces after this incident ...

That's sad.

The terrorists do kind of win every time they make free countries less free.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jdiddy]

Focus on how someone was able to legally obtain an AR 15 and high volume bullet clips. Ponder that first.

The terrorists in Europe didnt seem to have much trouble in obtaining the right tools for the job despite strict gun laws

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

What is that going to acheive, apart from a whole bunch of "dont forget about me" types on FB getting up on their soap box?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jdiddy

[Stardust314]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/caught-tape-home-made-bomb-explodes-shanghai-airport-injuring-five

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/orlando-shooting-suspect-identified-omar-mateen-us-citizen

russia and east europe is safe. hungary. vivat orban stop them and not allow change your homeland. same like Thailand do it.

[Jingthing]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

[Andaman Al]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

Not really. "All US born Muslims need to be rounded up and jailed until we can work out what the hell is going on"

Welcome to the future of the United States.

When you vote Trump in and he starts building the wall can you tell him to go around the entire US borders and then the rest of us will be safe.

Why have we not rounded up all the Bible belt Christians for the huge number of hate crimes committed by followers of Christianity? Are you seriously endorsing that after this shooting all US muslims should be rounded up and jailed? Is the World really going insane? It all makes volunteering for a long haul mission to live on Mars so appealing.

[Jingthing]

Largest mass shooting in U.S. history.

Florida senator suggests intelligence links the terrorist to ISIS. Not fully confirmed.

If it quacks like Islamic terrorism, dudes, it's terrorism, innit?

[wooloomooloo]

There is talk now, and there should be, how the ideology of radical Islam (which does have at least the sympathies of a shockingly high percentage of the world's Muslims) does indeed favor death for homosexuality, and in some cases, are carrying that out.

But I feel it should also be noted it's not only Islamists that use religion to favor death for gays and also sometimes carry it out motivated by religions other than Islam.

Example, death penalty laws in some African nations justified by Christianity.

Brazil ... hundreds of gays murdered by police for decades. "Good" Christians.

I told you that two hours ago but you were intent on establishing facts. But now, suddenly, you're listening.

Let's quit the LGBT nonsense as there's now a carnage of innocent dead.

I did state that these evil beings will kill anyone in their path.

Seriously, I despair, JT, I really do.

Edited June 12, 2016 by wooloomooloo

[arunsakda]

<deleted>？ Heard it here first.

Edit guess I cannot post What the F.

Godddamn Guns!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited June 12, 2016 by arunsakda

[mcfish]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

Not really. "All US born Muslims need to be rounded up and jailed until we can work out what the hell is going on"

Welcome to the future of the United States.

When you vote Trump in and he starts building the wall can you tell him to go around the entire US borders and then the rest of us will be safe.

Why have we not rounded up all the Bible belt Christians for the huge number of hate crimes committed by followers of Christianity? Are you seriously endorsing that after this shooting all US muslims should be rounded up and jailed? Is the World really going insane? It all makes volunteering for a long haul mission to live on Mars so appealing.

relax it was tongue in cheek

[wooloomooloo]

Largest mass shooting in U.S. history.

Florida senator suggests intelligence links the terrorist to ISIS. Not fully confirmed.

If it quacks like Islamic terrorism, dudes, it's terrorism, innit?

You weren't quite as accepting two hours ago. But at least you're now accepting facts.

Let's hope you give the keyboard a rest in morning and take a breather for once and clear your head.

I wish you luck.

[Hammock]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

Jingthing, if religion is unacceptable thing for a gay, like you have just mentioned, what should be said if a gay dies?

[Wilsonandson]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

I thought it was about a homophobic muslim going on an anti-gay killing spree. Where's the religion? Not all muslims hate gays.

[thai3]

Coverage on Fox now.

Not on BBC or Aljazeera.

It's surely coming.

A major international news event especially if the Islamic terrorism connection pans out.

Heard a deluded commentator on the BBC today saying we don't know yet it might be a Christian extremist, or somebody mentally ill. Right, baptists and Quakers are well known for this kind of attack on innocent people. Of course it's Islamic again, and again and again, stop making excuses for it.

[Jingthing]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

I thought it was about a homophobic muslim going on an anti-gay killing spree. Where's the religion? Not all muslims hate gays.

Mass murder is beyond hate.

The shooter (probably, not 100 percent confirmed) has ties to radical Islam, maybe even ISIS.

Do you follow the news about what happens to gays in many areas of the Middle East, and not just ISIS?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[thai3]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

I thought it was about a homophobic muslim going on an anti-gay killing spree. Where's the religion? Not all muslims hate gays.

No but Islam hates gays and all 'good' Muslims do as well

[NovaBlue05]

Trumps gonna struggle with this one because it's a US born Muslim , so his ban would not have prevented mass murder

Not really. "All US born Muslims need to be rounded up and jailed until we can work out what the hell is going on"

Welcome to the future of the United States.

When you vote Trump in and he starts building the wall can you tell him to go around the entire US borders and then the rest of us will be safe.

Why have we not rounded up all the Bible belt Christians for the huge number of hate crimes committed by followers of Christianity? Are you seriously endorsing that after this shooting all US muslims should be rounded up and jailed? Is the World really going insane? It all makes volunteering for a long haul mission to live on Mars so appealing.

relax it was tongue in cheek

And besides, the US hasn't done that since FDR

[Wilsonandson]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims #PrayforOrlando

It's a nice sentiment but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to inject religion into a recent terrorism event inspired by ... religion.

I thought it was about a homophobic muslim going on an anti-gay killing spree. Where's the religion? Not all muslims hate gays.

Mass murder is beyond hate.

The shooter (probably, not 100 percent confirmed) has ties to radical Islam, maybe even ISIS.

Do you follow the news about what happens to gays in many areas of the Middle East, and not just ISIS?

Mateen's father told NBC News, "This has nothing to do with religion." He says his son became angry after seeing 2 men kissing a few months ago in Miami, and he speculates that could have triggered his decision to kill.