"ISIL claims responsibility" for Orlando gay nightclub shooting that left 50 dead

[mopar71]

ORLANDO, Fla. A gunman who pledged allegiance to the Islamic State opened fire in a crowded gay nightclub here early Sunday in a shooting that left 50 dead and another 53 wounded. The gunman, identified as Omar Mateen, had been investigated twice by the F.B.I. for possible connections to terrorism, the bureau said, but no ties could be confirmed.

New York Times

Yeah, but it scores more political points to frame it as an anti-gate hate crime committed by someone only because the 2nd Amendment gave them easy access to guns.

[tezzainthailand]

ISIS will claim responsibility for any attack to western countries and people, just because they want a violent response back. Violence creates more violence, and more ISIS violent followers.

To forgive and forget is the only response to stop with this madness. Leave the Islamic people and its countries alone!

"Leave the Islamic people and its countries alone"!

I would agree with that, if these Islamic people would just stay in their countries unless they have something genuine to offer any

Western countries, and not just coming to claim benefits, and demand the Western countries change their way of life to suit them.

Hmm, I seem to remember a whole gaggle of western countries (with the world's # 1 terrorist at the time, president George W. Bush)entering Iraq on a lie and starting the cancer of ISIL and all the other terrorist groups...maybe if those western countries stayed in THEIR own countries in the first place we wouldn't have all this trouble

[LingLek]

If true.......Payback's a bitch Obama!......But this is what you want!!.....Perpetual war serves you (the corporate schill) and your corporate buddies ....

Added bonus........you get to crack-down on the people at home ..........

All these wars in the middle east are at the heart of this hatred towards america and it's 'allies'

It's your kind of thinking which leads to all that.

[elgordo38]

Why is everybody so worried? As long as you're not gay, not Christian, not Jewish, not Buddhist, not Hindu, not atheist, don't drink alcohol, don't eat pork, and you do lock up your women in your house, forbid them to drive a car, and leave your children uneducated in everything except the Koran, well, then you're safe. Maybe.

Well said. The protection being that when they come you will be the last one they come for.

[chilli42]

ISIS will claim responsibility for any attack to western countries and people, just because they want a violent response back. Violence creates more violence, and more ISIS violent followers.

To forgive and forget is the only response to stop with this madness. Leave the Islamic people and its countries alone!

"To forgive and forget" is a mad response. Hunt down and exterminate is a far better solution. These Sunni Muslim hate groups hate the entire world, it happens in China, Russia, Europe, SE Asia and across the whole Muslim world. It is not just a western nation problem and no reason to be scared, appeasement is weakness and the bad guys will take full advantage of it.

I hear you and at some level share the desire to have a 'final solution'. That said my rationale side tells me the you can never hunt down and exterminate all those that are filled with hate. Just as when ISIS is finally run to ground as an organization those same hate filled people will disburse and pop up in a new organization of hate. The West stirred up all this hate over a very long period of time to serve their own business interests so the West will have to find a smart way to diffuse it. The religious war thing did not work out too well for the West last time we tried.

[LingLek]

I am suspicious. My guess is that any major act of terror that happens in the US, is something ISIL (interdependent sacrilegious idiot lemmings) would take credit for. Also, Obama and Homeland Security would prefer that this be an act of terror, instead of the work of a madman, or a religious (non-Muslim) zealot, trying to express his intolerance of the gay lifestyle, and the open manner in which it is conducted in the US.

I am not saying it was not the super freak, gang rapist terror group ISIL. But, anytime they take credit, I am suspicious.

Let us hope it was not their act. If so, life in America is going to change overnight. Being the first major terror act since 9/11, to have been conducted by outsiders, and Muslims, it is going to awaken the giant security apparatus, already in place. Things are going to get ugly in the US.

If the FBI, and other law enforcement had not been spending all of their time, and squandering so much of their resources pursuing men having sex with women, and drug possession cases, it is possible these clowns would have been on their radar.

Things are already ugly in the US. It isn't Daesh; it's some homophobic dement, someone raised on Western freedoms and US machismo.

[FinChin67]

I wonder if this is ever going to happen... but it would mean that the muslims need to go against quran and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Jasser: Muslims Must Declare War on Radical Islam

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/12/dr-zuhdi-jasser-orlando-nightclub-shooting-muslims-political-islam

[elgordo38]

The shooter was born in New York, to Afgan immigrant parents. He was investigated twice by the FBI. The first time was in 2013, when fellow employees were alarmed by statements he made in support of Islamic tettorism. In 2014, he was interviewed regarding contact he had with the first US suicide bomber in Syria, who was also from Fort Pierce, where Moteen (the shooter) lived. In both instances, the FBI took no further action. Moteen was employed since 2007 with a security company, and was trained and proficient with weapons. Moteen was married, but his wife divorced him due to his violent actions towards her. Imediately prior to his assault, he called 911 and gave his name and pledged allegiance to ISIS and its leader. This guy bought both weapons two weeks ago, and his background check showed no negatives. I find that very strange.

You make some very good points...myself, I hold dear the right to own a gun, and I do...I think guns save far more lives than anyone can estimate...and most gun violence occurs between thugs and and punks killing each other, which to be brutally honest, is a favor to society...whenever anything such as this tragedy happens, liberals in the usa reflexively want to ban weapons and take away a very effective means of self-defense...for example, just imagine if a couple of armed, trained, and responsible people had been in the club at the time of the assault...I think you hit on some issues that could easily limit the availability of guns to individuals who are misguided, careless, mentally ill, or violent. Seems straight forward that if someone openly avows violence to a member of law enforcement...chronic mental health issues...a documented history of violence...or refusal to complete ongoing education on gun safety and use...then he/she should not have access to guns...

of course, in the usa at least, it's so much easier to purchase a gun illegally than legally...so maybe gun access is an issue that will take decades to resolve...

I think owning a gun kicks the brain up a notch or two and unleashes a sense of empowerment over our fellow man. I guess the "Shoot Out At The OK Corral" mentality will return with zest and vigor.

[elgordo38]

ISIS will claim responsibility for any attack to western countries and people, just because they want a violent response back. Violence creates more violence, and more ISIS violent followers.

To forgive and forget is the only response to stop with this madness. Leave the Islamic people and its countries alone!

"To forgive and forget" is a mad response. Hunt down and exterminate is a far better solution. These Sunni Muslim hate groups hate the entire world, it happens in China, Russia, Europe, SE Asia and across the whole Muslim world. It is not just a western nation problem and no reason to be scared, appeasement is weakness and the bad guys will take full advantage of it.

I hear you and at some level share the desire to have a 'final solution'. That said my rationale side tells me the you can never hunt down and exterminate all those that are filled with hate. Just as when ISIS is finally run to ground as an organization those same hate filled people will disburse and pop up in a new organization of hate. The West stirred up all this hate over a very long period of time to serve their own business interests so the West will have to find a smart way to diffuse it. The religious war thing did not work out too well for the West last time we tried.

Do you honestly think the merchants of death and destruction want to diffuse these situations hardly. They control the government along with the NRA. There is still a Charlton Heston mentality in the USA. "Ripping from his cold dead hands"

[cdnvic]

If you don't want your posts removed, credit and link to your sources.

Also, no political lobbying.

[FinChin67]

Here are some countries in which Homosexuality is punishable by death:

Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, Iraq by sectarian Militas, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Mauritania.

And tens of other countries that made it illegal and Gays are treated less than 3rd class citizens like Pakistan, Egypt and many others.

But Media wants to convince you that it was a "lone wolf" attack came out of nowhere.

https://www.facebook.com/faisalsalmutar/videos/927751907316874/

[chilli42]

I am suspicious. My guess is that any major act of terror that happens in the US, is something ISIL (interdependent sacrilegious idiot lemmings) would take credit for. Also, Obama and Homeland Security would prefer that this be an act of terror, instead of the work of a madman, or a religious (non-Muslim) zealot, trying to express his intolerance of the gay lifestyle, and the open manner in which it is conducted in the US.

I am not saying it was not the super freak, gang rapist terror group ISIL. But, anytime they take credit, I am suspicious.

Let us hope it was not their act. If so, life in America is going to change overnight. Being the first major terror act since 9/11, to have been conducted by outsiders, and Muslims, it is going to awaken the giant security apparatus, already in place. Things are going to get ugly in the US.

If the FBI, and other law enforcement had not been spending all of their time, and squandering so much of their resources pursuing men having sex with women, and drug possession cases, it is possible these clowns would have been on their radar.

Things are already ugly in the US. It isn't Daesh; it's some homophobic dement, someone raised on Western freedoms and US machismo.

I tend to think you are right ... DAESH just wants to horn in on the catastrophe as they have done nothing but lose ground for months now. It's also evident that there is a lot of rage in the US against government, gay rights/marriage, Muslims, Mexicans, being shafted by Corporations etc. Not saying that the rage is unfounded in some cases (eg big government, Corporations) but with all that rage floating around and being further inflamed by the election process it's no surprise that the screws will come loose on those that were already barely in control.

[hdkane]

Amazing the lack of intellect by some . A member of the public .A US citizen had access to An automatic weapon used in war. Head in the "18th century constitution" sand. Failed state

I believe it was semi-automatic.

Yes...and he bought it legally...the fact that he was interviewed at least twice by the FBI prior to the incident, and had an avowed association with ISIS and a terrorist...people in the USA are so afraid of being labeled racist or islamophobic that policy makers are willing to sacrifice public safety for political correctness...this sort of tragedy is often, but not always, preventable...people just need to be honest about race, religion, and gender...some are better than others, and some aspire to violence...it's simple and real...you cannot deny reality...and you cannot legislate it...the usa denies guns to convicted felons, even those with nonviolent criminal histories...but not the mentally handicapped, mentally ill, or religious extremists...perhaps it's time to consider such restrictions. My thinking is don't ban the weapons, but restrict access to them based on what reality dictates influences people's behavior and potential for violence...

[joeyg]

I used to have quite an "exotic" gun collection when I lived in the states. And I'm a vegetarian aspiring Buddhist. Got in regular range time and also did some competitive events. I retired a couple of years ago in Thailand. Now I don't own a gun.

Friends and acquaintances in Issan and many in Bangkok do own guns. All unregistered as far as I know.

Did you know Thailand has twice the gun violence as the United States.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877806-thailand-gun-death-rate-twice-as-high-as-us/

It's confusing to me that in 11 Middle Eastern countries if a guy gets caught taking it up the a$$ or blowing some other guy they will get executed. Gee talk about "risky sex."

May the souls of those slaughtered RIP...

[OMGImInPattaya]

NBC news has reported that the Afghan ather of the killer has been a supporter of the Taliban in the past and expressed support for them online. HOW THE F is someone with such views allowed to emigrate to the United States...was he one of the huddled masses of muslim "refugees" to whom the West owes shelter and protection? It really makes one wonder how many similar Islamists have entered with the current wave of migrants to Europe and America.

The policy of walling off America to muslims makes more sense than ever now.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-live

Edited June 13, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[HenryB]

This act by a muslin group may very well have secured Donald Trump the Presidency.

Soon Eu Russia England China and USA are going to Kill more than the Germans and Japanese dies in the 2nd World War

These Muslims even have declared war on Liberal Gays who through the will be overlook

ISIS and all Muslims Groups better stop this War at once

As Many of them shall Died

[Phaeton]

Meet the face of your narcissistic Islamic terrorist next door...

Screenshot_2016-06-13-06-47-36-1.png

Source: New York Times

Too bad he had such easy access to assault weapons.

You know, they keep saying it is an assault weapon he used. But, while we have lots of data on him, his parents, his ex-wife, I have not actually seen anything about the weapon.

But my main point to you is that this guy worked his way up as a security guard. Obviously people in that sort of work, no matter how strict the gun laws, I think they will have access to high powered guns. So while you are suggesting that lax gun laws were a major contributor to this event, I don't think that is really the case here.

These people will find a way to access some weapon of mass destruction. Even if it means working for some years in a position in security, or at the nuclear plant, etc.

[Steely Dan]

This thread shows the disease which is progressivism in a nutshell. A man runs into a gay club with a semi-automatic weapon shouting Allahu Akbar and proceeds to murder fifty people.

So what do progressives do?

1. Blame Trump

2. Blame the years out of office George Bush.

3. Blame the gun lobby.

4. Pretend motive nothing to do with Islam.

5. Rinse, wash and repeat as the dead bodies pile up.

[AYJAYDEE]

Amazing the lack of intellect by some . A member of the public .A US citizen had access to An automatic weapon used in war. Head in the "18th century constitution" sand. Failed state

I believe it was semi-automatic.

Yes...and he bought it legally...the fact that he was interviewed at least twice by the FBI prior to the incident, and had an avowed association with ISIS and a terrorist...people in the USA are so afraid of being labeled racist or islamophobic that policy makers are willing to sacrifice public safety for political correctness...this sort of tragedy is often, but not always, preventable...people just need to be honest about race, religion, and gender...some are better than others, and some aspire to violence...it's simple and real...you cannot deny reality...and you cannot legislate it...the usa denies guns to convicted felons, even those with nonviolent criminal histories...but not the mentally handicapped, mentally ill, or religious extremists...perhaps it's time to consider such restrictions. My thinking is don't ban the weapons, but restrict access to them based on what reality dictates influences people's behavior and potential for violence...

avowed association? lol. good idea on the religious extremists tho. plenty of right wing christians will be very upset with you however.

[Buckwheat Flour]

I wonder if King Alfred would have agreed with your comments. Do you think that human nature has profoundly changed since the 18th century? Just to name a very few, of the many post 18th massacres committed by various zealots and governments.

France – Annihilated anyone who was even suspected of opposing the French Revolution

Belgium – Annihilated the Congo free state

United States – Annihilated Indigenous Population

Australia – Annihilated Indigenous Population

Germany – Annihilated anyone in Southwest Africa who stood in their way

Ottoman Empire – Annihilated Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, Kurds and Maronite Christians

China – Annihilated Zunghars, Tibet

Nazi Germany – Annihilated too many to count

Stalin’s Russia – Annihilated knows, probably too many to count

Japan – Annihilated Chinese by the millions

Pakistan / India – One could argue that millions lost their lives due the British brilliant idea of partition

Recently:

Cambodia – Khmer Rouge

Burundi / Rwanda – Hutus & Tutsi going at it

North Korea – Political Camps & others

Indonesia – New Guinea, PKK Chinese and East Timor

Former Yugoslavia – Bosnia and Kosovo

Sudan – Darfur

ISIS – Ok, lets not even count them yet

There are so many other examples.

The US is a failed state because the citizens have a right to own firearms? I would argue the opposite because the dark side of human nature does not support your argument. Current times are not different, and absolute power almost never results in benevolent governance. The less those in power fear the people, the more bold and predatory they,or their agents, become. The more the populations is armed the balance of power changes substantially. An armed citizenry certainly has its risks, I'd take that risk rather than hoping a government will always act brotherly.

Good luck with your perception...

Amazing the lack of intellect by some . A member of the public .A US citizen had access to An automatic weapon used in war. Head in the "18th century constitution" sand. Failed state

[spidermike007]

I wonder if this is ever going to happen... but it would mean that the muslims need to go against quran and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Jasser: Muslims Must Declare War on Radical Islam

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/12/dr-zuhdi-jasser-orlando-nightclub-shooting-muslims-political-islam

I have been arguing that they need to do exactly this for some time now. Take to the streets, denounce them at every turn, provide no support or safe harbor, make them feel like absolute pariahs, in their own lands.

And if this does not happen, I am afraid moderate minded people around the world are going to interpret this as complicity, and support. And at a given point in time, there is a strong possibility that the entire Western world will rise up against the entire Muslim world. It would be the 4th crusade. A friend of mine argues that it already started with aftermath of 9/11. The slaughter of hundreds of thousands of women and children in Iraq, during our campaign there, for example.

It is absolutely incumbent upon every Muslim man, woman, and child to speak out against these murderous, gang raping fools. In a very loud, and a very unified manner. Same applies to the leaders in the Middle East. And the clerics. I realize some are already speaking out. And the Western media shows very little of that, as it does not fit the stereotype that is being promoted. But, if the outcry is loud enough, it is going to get attention.

[farcanell]

No surprise when a country doesn't protect its sovereignty and allows open borders.

We can expect an escalation of similar events in the un-United States.

Payback for many decades of political wars will eventually lead to Marshall Law.

What goes around comes back and bites!

what on earth is Marshall law?

Marshall law is probably a good attempt at martial law, by a poster whose first language is not English.... Or spell checks version of something.

Is this pedantry nessesary?

[spidermike007]

I used to have quite an "exotic" gun collection when I lived in the states. And I'm a vegetarian aspiring Buddhist. Got in regular range time and also did some competitive events. I retired a couple of years ago in Thailand. Now I don't own a gun.

Friends and acquaintances in Issan and many in Bangkok do own guns. All unregistered as far as I know.

Did you know Thailand has twice the gun violence as the United States.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877806-thailand-gun-death-rate-twice-as-high-as-us/

It's confusing to me that in 11 Middle Eastern countries if a guy gets caught taking it up the <deleted> or blowing some other guy they will get executed. Gee talk about "risky sex."

May the souls of those slaughtered RIP...

And why do you suppose that is? Why such a pathological fear of homosexual acts? My guess is that it is very prevalent, and that it is simply a mask, for the relative lack of heterosexuality within their societies. An extreme reaction is typically caused by something inherent within society. Granted, there is the Muslim element. But, I doubt that is what this is all about.

When you repress a people to the extent these Middle Eastern societies have been repressed, some strange stuff is going to happen! Perhaps, when it is so difficult to have something, you are going to look for something else.

Edited June 13, 2016 by spidermike007

[chilli42]

Gun laws a solution? How difficult do you think it is for a determined madman to purchase a fully automatic unregistered weapon on the street? If not a gun, then do you think it's difficult to build a bomb off instructions on the Internet? This a man is driven to deal out death there is no stopping him when he is unhinged and cares nothing for his own life.

[MZurf]

Meet the face of your narcissistic Islamic terrorist next door...

Screenshot_2016-06-13-06-47-36-1.png

Source: New York Times

Too bad he had such easy access to assault weapons.

You know, they keep saying it is an assault weapon he used. But, while we have lots of data on him, his parents, his ex-wife, I have not actually seen anything about the weapon.

But my main point to you is that this guy worked his way up as a security guard. Obviously people in that sort of work, no matter how strict the gun laws, I think they will have access to high powered guns. So while you are suggesting that lax gun laws were a major contributor to this event, I don't think that is really the case here.

These people will find a way to access some weapon of mass destruction. Even if it means working for some years in a position in security, or at the nuclear plant, etc.

"You know, they keep saying it is an assault weapon he used. But, while we have lots of data on him, his parents, his ex-wife, I have not actually seen anything about the weapon."

There is no way he could have killed 50 people in a short period of time unless he was using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. Those kind of weapons are not for hunting animals, their only function is to kill large number of people.

"But my main point to you is that this guy worked his way up as a security guard. Obviously people in that sort of work, no matter how strict the gun laws, I think they will have access to high powered guns. So while you are suggesting that lax gun laws were a major contributor to this event, I don't think that is really the case here."

I doubt if most security guards have access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons, but even if he did and used a weapon supplied by his employer doesn't mean that there shouldn't be strict gun laws. There is no logic in claiming that since there occasionally are massacres perpetrated by people who have access to assault weapons in their work then those weapons should be made available to the public.

[chilli42]

I used to have quite an "exotic" gun collection when I lived in the states. And I'm a vegetarian aspiring Buddhist. Got in regular range time and also did some competitive events. I retired a couple of years ago in Thailand. Now I don't own a gun.

Friends and acquaintances in Issan and many in Bangkok do own guns. All unregistered as far as I know.

Did you know Thailand has twice the gun violence as the United States.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877806-thailand-gun-death-rate-twice-as-high-as-us/

It's confusing to me that in 11 Middle Eastern countries if a guy gets caught taking it up the <deleted> or blowing some other guy they will get executed. Gee talk about "risky sex."

May the souls of those slaughtered RIP...

B

And why do you suppose that is? Why such a pathological fear of homosexual acts? My guess is that it is very prevalent, and that it is simply a mask, for the relative lack of heterosexuality within their societies. An extreme reaction is typically caused by something inherent within society. Granted, there is the Muslim element. But, I doubt that is what this is all about.

When you repress a people to the extent these Middle Eastern societies have been repressed, some strange stuff is going to happen! Perhaps, when it is so difficult to have something, you are going to look for something else.

I have wondered for some time how this squares with the pevelance of homosexuality in Afganistan where young boys even put on makeup for the occasion and everyone knows what's up.

[AYJAYDEE]

Meet the face of your narcissistic Islamic terrorist next door...

Screenshot_2016-06-13-06-47-36-1.png

Source: New York Times

Too bad he had such easy access to assault weapons.

You know, they keep saying it is an assault weapon he used. But, while we have lots of data on him, his parents, his ex-wife, I have not actually seen anything about the weapon.

But my main point to you is that this guy worked his way up as a security guard. Obviously people in that sort of work, no matter how strict the gun laws, I think they will have access to high powered guns. So while you are suggesting that lax gun laws were a major contributor to this event, I don't think that is really the case here.

These people will find a way to access some weapon of mass destruction. Even if it means working for some years in a position in security, or at the nuclear plant, etc.

"You know, they keep saying it is an assault weapon he used. But, while we have lots of data on him, his parents, his ex-wife, I have not actually seen anything about the weapon."

There is no way he could have killed 50 people in a short period of time unless he was using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. Those kind of weapons are not for hunting animals, their only function is to kill large number of people.

"But my main point to you is that this guy worked his way up as a security guard. Obviously people in that sort of work, no matter how strict the gun laws, I think they will have access to high powered guns. So while you are suggesting that lax gun laws were a major contributor to this event, I don't think that is really the case here."

I doubt if most security guards have access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons, but even if he did and used a weapon supplied by his employer doesn't mean that there shouldn't be strict gun laws. There is no logic in claiming that since there occasionally are massacres perpetrated by people who have access to assault weapons in their work then those weapons should be made available to the public.

he was using a semi-auto which is easily purchased anywhere. and yes, people do use semi -autos for hunting

[timendres]

One incredibly ignorant post after another as the wingnuts pat themselves on the back and wallow in the weird justification for their Muslim xenophobia. This guarantees a Trump election? Buddha give me strength.

This was another mass shooting, this week on the LGBT community by someone who should never have had a gun. ISIS didn't do this, another mental patient with a gun did this.

Violence against the LGBT community, the lack of ANY effective gun laws (Florida?) are what should be addressed, yet the low-infos take a victory lap over having pointed out the danger of ISIS in America.

Somehow, it's Obama's fault?

We are standing for this violence time and time again. This isn't about Muslims. This incident is about guns. There will be another mass shooting next week and it won't be about Muslims. It will be about what it's always about...GUNS and at a minimum better regulatory system for guns — just like there is for anything else related to our safety.

The NRA runs the Republican party and is the reason for our regularly scheduled mass shootings. Enough is enough kowtowing to the Americans who cling to their weapons for dear life allowing a continuous loop of mass killing after mass killing.

We don't need guns. We need sanity, something in short supply on this thread.

Enough is enough.

Right. So if I place a huge pile of semi-automatic weapons in your living room, we can expect a mass-murder incident in short order. Got it. It's the guns.

[rapom]

The shooter was born in New York, to Afgan immigrant parents. He was investigated twice by the FBI. The first time was in 2013, when fellow employees were alarmed by statements he made in support of Islamic tettorism. In 2014, he was interviewed regarding contact he had with the first US suicide bomber in Syria, who was also from Fort Pierce, where Moteen (the shooter) lived. In both instances, the FBI took no further action. Moteen was employed since 2007 with a security company, and was trained and proficient with weapons. Moteen was married, but his wife divorced him due to his violent actions towards her. Imediately prior to his assault, he called 911 and gave his name and pledged allegiance to ISIS and its leader. This guy bought both weapons two weeks ago, and his background check showed no negatives. I find that very strange.

You make some very good points...myself, I hold dear the right to own a gun, and I do...I think guns save far more lives than anyone can estimate...and most gun violence occurs between thugs and and punks killing each other, which to be brutally honest, is a favor to society...whenever anything such as this tragedy happens, liberals in the usa reflexively want to ban weapons and take away a very effective means of self-defense...for example, just imagine if a couple of armed, trained, and responsible people had been in the club at the time of the assault...I think you hit on some issues that could easily limit the availability of guns to individuals who are misguided, careless, mentally ill, or violent. Seems straight forward that if someone openly avows violence to a member of law enforcement...chronic mental health issues...a documented history of violence...or refusal to complete ongoing education on gun safety and use...then he/she should not have access to guns...

of course, in the usa at least, it's so much easier to purchase a gun illegally than legally...so maybe gun access is an issue that will take decades to resolve...

"most gun violence occurs between thugs and and punks killing each other"

Nope, the killings are mostly due to : road rage, alcohol, fanily issues, just look at the stats...

imagine if a couple of armed, trained, and responsible people

There was security guards who started shooting as well...it worked quite well as we can see...

then he/she should not have access to guns...

Nobody should have access to an AR15 or any kind of gun like this, right now you can buy them at target or Walmart

st, it's so much easier to purchase a gun illegally than legally

Offer and demand: having so many kind of guns and so easily buyable make the black market price going down...while a black market gun is around 1000 doll in US, in Aus the price is 15k

of course, in the usa at least, it's so much easier to purchase a gun illegally than legally...so

This is in reply to being able to purchase AR15's. I have shopped at Target stores since 1985 and have never seen ANY firearms for sale in their stores. Also, WalMart has not sold this style of weapon or any accessories, since about Sept 2015.

[spidermike007]

I used to have quite an "exotic" gun collection when I lived in the states. And I'm a vegetarian aspiring Buddhist. Got in regular range time and also did some competitive events. I retired a couple of years ago in Thailand. Now I don't own a gun.

Friends and acquaintances in Issan and many in Bangkok do own guns. All unregistered as far as I know.

Did you know Thailand has twice the gun violence as the United States.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877806-thailand-gun-death-rate-twice-as-high-as-us/

It's confusing to me that in 11 Middle Eastern countries if a guy gets caught taking it up the <deleted> or blowing some other guy they will get executed. Gee talk about "risky sex."

May the souls of those slaughtered RIP...

B

And why do you suppose that is? Why such a pathological fear of homosexual acts? My guess is that it is very prevalent, and that it is simply a mask, for the relative lack of heterosexuality within their societies. An extreme reaction is typically caused by something inherent within society. Granted, there is the Muslim element. But, I doubt that is what this is all about.

When you repress a people to the extent these Middle Eastern societies have been repressed, some strange stuff is going to happen! Perhaps, when it is so difficult to have something, you are going to look for something else.

I have wondered for some time how this squares with the pevelance of homosexuality in Afganistan where young boys even put on makeup for the occasion and everyone knows what's up.

My guess would be that it is prevalent throughout the Middle East. That pathological fear and repression comes from somewhere! Mankind needs sex. It is that simple. Take away women, and what does that leave?