Israel cuts water supplies to West Bank during Ramadan

[tuktuktuk]

My guess is that this just tells a little piece of the story. Are they comparing residential usage or usage by all sources - residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural? Typical Al Jazeera propaganda. Probably true at some level, but meaningless without the context. Without knowing for sure, I'll bet the Palestinians in the West Bank territories have very little capacity to consume water.

It's hard for me to understand why anyone would provide water to people you're essentially at war with and equally hard to understand why the Palestinians would accept it. Just another little mystery about the whole mess in the middle east that is beyond understanding.

[alofthailand]

'Israelis, including settlers, consume five times more water than Palestinians in the West Bank, 350 litres per person per day in Israel compared with 60 litres per Palestinian per day in the West Bank'

If you oppress people this way by cutting their water, you cannot expect them to sit and wait and turn their other cheek.

Consumption isn't necessarily related to availability. Do you have any figures on deodorant sales?

You think it's funny that people didn't get water for 40 days?

Denying water to murderers and terrorists is a great tactic. Especially during the murder month of Ramadan!

[snowgard]

It's hard for me to understand why anyone would provide water to people you're essentially at war with and equally hard to understand why the Palestinians would accept it. Just another little mystery about the whole mess in the middle east that is beyond understanding.

The palestinians don't accept it. But what can they do? Fight again with stones against Israels Hightec Army? How much thousands will die again and the WORLD do NOTHING!!! I still not understand that the most western countries support Israel.

I hope this will change in the future!!!

[Morch]

Israel has embarked on a war of attrition that aims to completely swallow up Palestine and either push out or subjugate the Palestinian population. It's a Lebensraum policy as brazen as that of the Nazis.

No one can stop the march of history and the Palestinians are paying the price of centuries of inactivity. Thing is, Israel's aggression in Palestine is at the root of the current global insecurity, which is all about Islam's damaged pride. Nobody has yet explained that to Israel. It ought to be Ban Ki Moon's job, but that man is utterly useless and the world has burned under his watch.

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

[alofthailand]

when they speak about water consumption, usually it is total water usage divided by total population.

these are attempts from Israel to push palestinians.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century, i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

So, in your learned opinion, Israel is attempting to create more radical jihadists? That's Israel's goal?

Hard to tell if that faulty logic at work, conspiracy theory or simply getting caught up in your own propaganda...

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century,

That would make it 1916. So again, not clear if you wish for Israel not to exist, clueless with regard to historical fact or caught up in your own propaganda...

i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

How many of the recent attacks had been directly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Muslims have been persecuting non Muslims since the invention of Islam. They started killing Jews long before the creation of Israel. The Israeli are defending themselves. There is no such place as Palestine and no such thing as a Palestinian people. The fanatics want kashmir returned and spain and parts of the balkans.

[tuktuktuk]

It's hard for me to understand why anyone would provide water to people you're essentially at war with and equally hard to understand why the Palestinians would accept it. Just another little mystery about the whole mess in the middle east that is beyond understanding.

The palestinians don't accept it. But what can they do? Fight again with stones against Israels Hightec Army? How much thousands will die again and the WORLD do NOTHING!!! I still not understand that the most western countries support Israel.

I hope this will change in the future!!!

I don't think Israel's demise will end the trouble.

[halloween]

It's quite simple really. The Palestinian terrorists randomly killing people, launching rockets and setting off bombs in Israel strongly resemble the other raghead terrorists in western cities, and the mob in the desert busily killing anybody they can get close to, including themselves. Why go to the trouble of trying to differentiate?

[dexterm]

Israel has embarked on a war of attrition that aims to completely swallow up Palestine and either push out or subjugate the Palestinian population. It's a Lebensraum policy as brazen as that of the Nazis.

No one can stop the march of history and the Palestinians are paying the price of centuries of inactivity. Thing is, Israel's aggression in Palestine is at the root of the current global insecurity, which is all about Islam's damaged pride. Nobody has yet explained that to Israel. It ought to be Ban Ki Moon's job, but that man is utterly useless and the world has burned under his watch.

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Palestinians are forced off their land, when their villages and aquifers stolen to make way for Zionist colonists.

Amnesty International provides an thorough report on the subject

"Troubled Waters - Palestinians denied fair access to water"

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

"Israel also resorts to other ways to expel Palestinians from their lands, by demolishing houses, prohibiting the building of schools and hospitals, and denying residents access to essential services like electricity, water, and well digging. By contrast, most settlements are designated as “national priority areas,” allowing them to receive financial incentives from the Israeli government in the area of education, health, housing construction, and industrial and agricultural development.

Israeli revenue from the exploitation of Palestinian land and resources in the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea is estimated at around 500 million NIS annually (around $130 million). To get a sense of the impact on the Palestinian economy, it is worth noting that the indirect cost of Israel’s restriction on Palestinian access to water in the Jordan Valley -- and their inability to cultivate their land as a result -- was $663 million, the equivalent of 8.2 percent of Palestinian GDP in 2010."

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=769369

A recent example of the above..

PM: Israel's demolition orders against West Bank water wells 'atrocious'

Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah issued a statement on Thursday condemning Israel’s illegal practice of destroying Palestinian water infrastructure as "atrocious."

“Israel uses every means possible to chase Palestinians away from their ancestral land,” Hamdallah said. "Water is life, and if you don't have water you cannot exist.

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=771655

"A new report by Maan Development Center exposes the sharp contrast in living conditions between Palestinians and illegal settlers in the occupied Jordan Valley. Israeli policies facilitate the extravagant lifestyle of Jewish settlers at the expense of the basic rights of Palestinians. Palestinians are denied access to their own natural resources, while Israeli settlers can fully profit from the rich agricultural land and abundant water resources of the valley."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adri-nieuwhof/report-exposes-discrimination-and-apartheid-occupied-jordan-valley

Edited June 15, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

These are the descendants of European jews who were confined in places such as the Warsaw and Theresienstadt ghettos. The similarities are self evident but they harp on about how we must never forget the past while they are doing exactly the same. It beggars believe, really.

"Exactly the same"...sure, sure.

Some people obviously don't think before they post, or more worrying, think that they think.

[Morch]

Palestinians who complain about water shortages can just pack up and move.

There are plenty of Israeli settlers who are waiting to take their place.

What you say is, as always, utterly crap

Jeez....one would imagine that by now posters would be aware of other poster's unchanging positions.

In case your missed it, JingerBen's comment was more in line with your views.

[Morch]

Israel seems to have learned from Hitler.

They are in war with Palestina's, so every option is an option.

They have the power over a vital thing as water, so ......

Just great all those religions and groupings of mankind, brings nothing but shit.

There is no god no devil, only within humans.

And every time the devil is winning.

Another expert on hyperbole comparisons.

Israel is not at war with the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority was created with Israel's consent.

Water was cut off to selected areas, most probably due to payment issues.

[Morch]

You mean there is no water shortage for ISRAELIS!!! They can fill up their pools, grow oranges, bananas, ...!!!

And charge the palestinians 3 x higher prices as the israelis pay!!!

Why make me sad is that all the terrorism just gone to the wrong people. Why they never hit the right one who bring the problems to the world???

^^Some people can't help themselves getting carried away.

Could you support that 300% pricing bit with a credible link?

It makes you sad that terrorism is not directed solely at Israelis? Because they are the ones who "bring problems to the world"?

Well, there are in fact many terrorist attacks directed at Israelis, read on the latest here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/?p=10836480

Edited June 15, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

'Israelis, including settlers, consume five times more water than Palestinians in the West Bank, 350 litres per person per day in Israel compared with 60 litres per Palestinian per day in the West Bank'

If you oppress people this way by cutting their water, you cannot expect them to sit and wait and turn their other cheek.

Was the water situation better for the Palestinians under Jordanian rule? Under the British Mandate? In the Ottoman Empire's days?

A dishonest and irrelevant deflection referring to up to 100 year old water distribution technology, population sizes and demographic lifestyles. Many village Palestinians used to rely on local springs and wells until Israel stole, destroyed or polluted them.

Perhaps a more relevant question would be: would Palestinians have a better water supply if Israel had not stolen their main aquifers and Palestinians were in control of their own water and land?

Oh I see, bringing up the inconvenient past is a "dishonest and irrelevant deflection" when applied on topic, but no issues with the declaring a century of Israeli oppression by the very same knowledgeable poster (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/925048-israel-cuts-water-supplies-to-west-bank-during-ramadan/?p=10859027).

The Palestinians did not have a better water supply between 1948 and 1967 (under Jordanian and Egyptian rule), nor were there great efforts made to change things. In contrast, the fledgling Israel became a world leader in water conservation and irrigation.

[Galactus]

when they speak about water consumption, usually it is total water usage divided by total population.

these are attempts from Israel to push palestinians.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century, i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

So, in your learned opinion, Israel is attempting to create more radical jihadists? That's Israel's goal?

Hard to tell if that faulty logic at work, conspiracy theory or simply getting caught up in your own propaganda...

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century,

That would make it 1916. So again, not clear if you wish for Israel not to exist, clueless with regard to historical fact or caught up in your own propaganda...

i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

How many of the recent attacks had been directly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

you still didnt understand morch?

how do you feel when some jewish people murdered by some muslim from the other side of the world in Thailand? i am sure you dont like it.

muslim all over the world feel the same when some muslim is murdered by jewish people. people get affected from these events, these create division and all believers of religions have their pride for their religion and if you hurt that pride with some constant oppression, land stealing, water cuts, phosphorus bombings etc, you create some jihadists. and those f ing jihadists come and kill/bomb us and our families. and these turn as more attacks for innocent jewish people.

not that different from those young jewish guys from usa or from other parts of the world deeply affected by murders of jewish people and blind by hatred(and ignorance) going to israel to fight or to do something to help their jewish brothers and sisters.

a bloody vicious circle. as israel is the powerful side and also more educated i believe, responsibility of this vicious circle lies with Israel and its supporters.

[Morch]

when they speak about water consumption, usually it is total water usage divided by total population.

these are attempts from Israel to push palestinians.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century, i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

So, in your learned opinion, Israel is attempting to create more radical jihadists? That's Israel's goal?

Hard to tell if that faulty logic at work, conspiracy theory or simply getting caught up in your own propaganda...

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century,

That would make it 1916. So again, not clear if you wish for Israel not to exist, clueless with regard to historical fact or caught up in your own propaganda...

i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

How many of the recent attacks had been directly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Muslims have been persecuting non Muslims since the invention of Islam. They started killing Jews long before the creation of Israel. The Israeli are defending themselves. There is no such place as Palestine and no such thing as a Palestinian people. The fanatics want kashmir returned and spain and parts of the balkans.

Umm if there are no Palestinians, what people does the OP refer to? There's really no need for more silly arguments and statements, regardless of which side one thinks he supports.

[Morch]

Israel has embarked on a war of attrition that aims to completely swallow up Palestine and either push out or subjugate the Palestinian population. It's a Lebensraum policy as brazen as that of the Nazis.

No one can stop the march of history and the Palestinians are paying the price of centuries of inactivity. Thing is, Israel's aggression in Palestine is at the root of the current global insecurity, which is all about Islam's damaged pride. Nobody has yet explained that to Israel. It ought to be Ban Ki Moon's job, but that man is utterly useless and the world has burned under his watch.

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Palestinians are forced off their land, when their villages and aquifers stolen to make way for Zionist colonists.

Amnesty International provides an thorough report on the subject

"Troubled Waters - Palestinians denied fair access to water"

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

"Israel also resorts to other ways to expel Palestinians from their lands, by demolishing houses, prohibiting the building of schools and hospitals, and denying residents access to essential services like electricity, water, and well digging. By contrast, most settlements are designated as “national priority areas,” allowing them to receive financial incentives from the Israeli government in the area of education, health, housing construction, and industrial and agricultural development.

Israeli revenue from the exploitation of Palestinian land and resources in the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea is estimated at around 500 million NIS annually (around $130 million). To get a sense of the impact on the Palestinian economy, it is worth noting that the indirect cost of Israel’s restriction on Palestinian access to water in the Jordan Valley -- and their inability to cultivate their land as a result -- was $663 million, the equivalent of 8.2 percent of Palestinian GDP in 2010."

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=769369

A recent example of the above..

PM: Israel's demolition orders against West Bank water wells 'atrocious'

Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah issued a statement on Thursday condemning Israel’s illegal practice of destroying Palestinian water infrastructure as "atrocious."

“Israel uses every means possible to chase Palestinians away from their ancestral land,” Hamdallah said. "Water is life, and if you don't have water you cannot exist.

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=771655

"A new report by Maan Development Center exposes the sharp contrast in living conditions between Palestinians and illegal settlers in the occupied Jordan Valley. Israeli policies facilitate the extravagant lifestyle of Jewish settlers at the expense of the basic rights of Palestinians. Palestinians are denied access to their own natural resources, while Israeli settlers can fully profit from the rich agricultural land and abundant water resources of the valley."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adri-nieuwhof/report-exposes-discrimination-and-apartheid-occupied-jordan-valley

So you quoted three Palestinian sources and one NGO which usually goes with any Palestinian claim. Well done.

All of the above still do not amount to what the quoted poster implied.

[RuamRudy]

Israel has embarked on a war of attrition that aims to completely swallow up Palestine and either push out or subjugate the Palestinian population. It's a Lebensraum policy as brazen as that of the Nazis.

No one can stop the march of history and the Palestinians are paying the price of centuries of inactivity. Thing is, Israel's aggression in Palestine is at the root of the current global insecurity, which is all about Islam's damaged pride. Nobody has yet explained that to Israel. It ought to be Ban Ki Moon's job, but that man is utterly useless and the world has burned under his watch.

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Why does our concept of national sentiment have to apply to cultures that organised themselves differently? Does the fact that they inhabited the land for generations not mean anything if they did not have a western style democratic assembly to stand up for them?

[RuamRudy]

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

So, in your learned opinion, Israel is attempting to create more radical jihadists? That's Israel's goal?

Hard to tell if that faulty logic at work, conspiracy theory or simply getting caught up in your own propaganda...

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century,

That would make it 1916. So again, not clear if you wish for Israel not to exist, clueless with regard to historical fact or caught up in your own propaganda...

i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

How many of the recent attacks had been directly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Muslims have been persecuting non Muslims since the invention of Islam. They started killing Jews long before the creation of Israel. The Israeli are defending themselves. There is no such place as Palestine and no such thing as a Palestinian people. The fanatics want kashmir returned and spain and parts of the balkans.

With the exception maybe of the Hari Krishnas and the Jains, I am not sure that there are any religions that do not have blood soaked histories.

[Morch]

when they speak about water consumption, usually it is total water usage divided by total population.

these are attempts from Israel to push palestinians.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century, i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

and attempts from Israel to create more radical jihadists bombing and killing us.

So, in your learned opinion, Israel is attempting to create more radical jihadists? That's Israel's goal?

Hard to tell if that faulty logic at work, conspiracy theory or simply getting caught up in your own propaganda...

if there were no Israel oppression towards Palestinians for a century,

That would make it 1916. So again, not clear if you wish for Israel not to exist, clueless with regard to historical fact or caught up in your own propaganda...

i am sure there were less muslim jihadists creating problems right now.

How many of the recent attacks had been directly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

you still didnt understand morch?

how do you feel when some jewish people murdered by some muslim from the other side of the world in Thailand? i am sure you dont like it.

muslim all over the world feel the same when some muslim is murdered by jewish people. people get affected from these events, these create division and all believers of religions have their pride for their religion and if you hurt that pride with some constant oppression, land stealing, water cuts, phosphorus bombings etc, you create some jihadists. and those f ing jihadists come and kill/bomb us and our families. and these turn as more attacks for innocent jewish people.

not that different from those young jewish guys from usa or from other parts of the world deeply affected by murders of jewish people and blind by hatred(and ignorance) going to israel to fight or to do something to help their jewish brothers and sisters.

a bloody vicious circle. as israel is the powerful side and also more educated i believe, responsibility of this vicious circle lies with Israel and its supporters.

Eh?

I don't like it when anyone innocent gets murdered, their religious affiliation and beliefs are immaterial. In the same way, I do not see the religious affiliations and beliefs of the murderers as making up for their deeds. But according to you, it seems that for Muslims these things do matter? Kinda hope there's more to it than the usual generalizations.

Regarding the "pride in religion" bit, I do not think that all believers of all religions react in the same way. There ain't no global Buddhist holy war against China.

There were and there will be religious zealots which will take their beliefs to violent extremes, still doesn't see how it demonstrates your previous nonsense statement about it being something Israel attempts to create.

On many related topics here, posters "supporting" the Palestinians make an effort to present Palestinian violence as having little by way of religious motivation, seems not everyone got the memo.

And no, Jews enlisting to the IDF do not necessarily do so out of hatred for the Palestinians or due to being "deeply effected by murder of Jewish people". Further, they do not normally carry out terrorist attacks against unrelated civilian targets across the globe.

[Morch]

Israel has embarked on a war of attrition that aims to completely swallow up Palestine and either push out or subjugate the Palestinian population. It's a Lebensraum policy as brazen as that of the Nazis.

No one can stop the march of history and the Palestinians are paying the price of centuries of inactivity. Thing is, Israel's aggression in Palestine is at the root of the current global insecurity, which is all about Islam's damaged pride. Nobody has yet explained that to Israel. It ought to be Ban Ki Moon's job, but that man is utterly useless and the world has burned under his watch.

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Why does our concept of national sentiment have to apply to cultures that organised themselves differently? Does the fact that they inhabited the land for generations not mean anything if they did not have a western style democratic assembly to stand up for them?

From one off topic to another.....

I did not say that it need by applied, but that it is.

In case you missed it, the the Palestinians are the ones insisting on being defined along these lines, the alternative definitions having more to do with those opposed to the Palestinian political aspirations.

The Palestinian rights were nor denied (at least, not by me), the comment was simply highlighting the overreaching "centuries of inactivity" bit. There was no "activity" as there was no clear sense of being a distinct group, nor a clear desire to enhance such a distinction. These things came later on, mostly coinciding with the Western ideas being introduced to the Middle East.

By the way, reading this topic, do you still find it reflects that "resigned gloom"?

[RuamRudy]

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Why does our concept of national sentiment have to apply to cultures that organised themselves differently? Does the fact that they inhabited the land for generations not mean anything if they did not have a western style democratic assembly to stand up for them?

From one off topic to another.....

I did not say that it need by applied, but that it is.

In case you missed it, the the Palestinians are the ones insisting on being defined along these lines, the alternative definitions having more to do with those opposed to the Palestinian political aspirations.

The Palestinian rights were nor denied (at least, not by me), the comment was simply highlighting the overreaching "centuries of inactivity" bit. There was no "activity" as there was no clear sense of being a distinct group, nor a clear desire to enhance such a distinction. These things came later on, mostly coinciding with the Western ideas being introduced to the Middle East.

By the way, reading this topic, do you still find it reflects that "resigned gloom"?

This topic and all the myriad others around Israel and Palestine give me nothing but gloom - if there is a way out of the quagmire, I see nobody on either side with the will to go there.

Activity only materialised when the western concept of statehood arrived? Maybe this was because those who previously lived in isolation were forced to band together against a common aggressor?

[Morch]

Ah, here we go with the apparently mandatory Nazi comparisons.

Israel has not embarked on anything of the sort. If what you claim was anywhere near true, there wouldn't be a Palestinian Authority in place. As for pushing out the Palestinian population - no signs of this, and runs counter to the usual demographic argumentation stating that time-is-on-the-Palestinian's-side. Subjugating the Palestinians is pretty much a hollow construct - they were never free (not under the Ottomans, Brits, Jordanians, Egyptians). The current Palestinian Authority is de facto the highest level of self rule achieved by the Palestinians.

Centuries of inactivity? The Palestinian national sentiment is hardly a century old, if that.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the root of global insecurity, it got little to do even with other regional conflicts. If looking for clues on what that means - Shia, Sunni...take it from there. Other examples available.

Why does our concept of national sentiment have to apply to cultures that organised themselves differently? Does the fact that they inhabited the land for generations not mean anything if they did not have a western style democratic assembly to stand up for them?

From one off topic to another.....

I did not say that it need by applied, but that it is.

In case you missed it, the the Palestinians are the ones insisting on being defined along these lines, the alternative definitions having more to do with those opposed to the Palestinian political aspirations.

The Palestinian rights were nor denied (at least, not by me), the comment was simply highlighting the overreaching "centuries of inactivity" bit. There was no "activity" as there was no clear sense of being a distinct group, nor a clear desire to enhance such a distinction. These things came later on, mostly coinciding with the Western ideas being introduced to the Middle East.

By the way, reading this topic, do you still find it reflects that "resigned gloom"?

This topic and all the myriad others around Israel and Palestine give me nothing but gloom - if there is a way out of the quagmire, I see nobody on either side with the will to go there.

Activity only materialised when the western concept of statehood arrived? Maybe this was because those who previously lived in isolation were forced to band together against a common aggressor?

Far as I recall the "resigned gloom" was something attributed to most regular posters on this topics....

I didn't specifically refer to the concept of statehood, perhaps more to do with nationality. Previously lived in isolation how? They were ruled by the Ottomans, not living on a deserted island.

But again, little to do with the topic at hand, which already contains very little by way of relevant posts.

[Steely Dan]

Israel seems to have learned from Hitler.

They are in war with Palestina's, so every option is an option.

They have the power over a vital thing as water, so ......

Just great all those religions and groupings of mankind, brings nothing but shit.

There is no god no devil, only within humans.

And every time the devil is winning.

Another expert on hyperbole comparisons.

Israel is not at war with the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority was created with Israel's consent.

Water was cut off to selected areas, most probably due to payment issues.

Seeing as the Palestinians appear to be constantly in arrears for all utilities it might be an idea for their unquestioning donors to transfer money directly to Israeli utility companies, but then again any Palestinian discomfort is the name of the game, especially if you have a state owned media channel like Al-Jazeera to whine about it as Hamas funding Qatar has.

[dexterm]

Israel seems to have learned from Hitler.

They are in war with Palestina's, so every option is an option.

They have the power over a vital thing as water, so ......

Just great all those religions and groupings of mankind, brings nothing but shit.

There is no god no devil, only within humans.

And every time the devil is winning.

Another expert on hyperbole comparisons.

Israel is not at war with the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority was created with Israel's consent.

Water was cut off to selected areas, most probably due to payment issues.

Seeing as the Palestinians appear to be constantly in arrears for all utilities it might be an idea for their unquestioning donors to transfer money directly to Israeli utility companies, but then again any Palestinian discomfort is the name of the game, especially if you have a state owned media channel like Al-Jazeera to whine about it as Hamas funding Qatar has.

So a thief steals from you then forces you to pay a reward to get your belongings back.

The water has always been Palestinian, even the aquifers inside the 67 lines from which Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, which Israel now mismanages allowing Israeli swimming pools filled while Palestinians queue for bottled water because Israel has polluted or refuses to allow Palestinians to repair their wells.

Edited June 16, 2016 by dexterm

[snowgard]

^^Some people can't help themselves getting carried away.

Could you support that 300% pricing bit with a credible link?

It makes you sad that terrorism is not directed solely at Israelis? Because they are the ones who "bring problems to the world"?

Well, there are in fact many terrorist attacks directed at Israelis, read on the latest here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/?p=10836480

No, it not makes me sad that it is not directed solely at Israelis!!!

It's make me sad that it not hit the right Israelis. This one who never want stop the war against the palestines. The same one who never want freedom for Israelis and Palestines and who do everything for treat the palestines harder as dogs!!! I am sad that the most time innocent Israelis die from the Rebell Attacks and much more palestines because the Israelis stroke back on innocent people..

[Morch]

Israel seems to have learned from Hitler.

They are in war with Palestina's, so every option is an option.

They have the power over a vital thing as water, so ......

Just great all those religions and groupings of mankind, brings nothing but shit.

There is no god no devil, only within humans.

And every time the devil is winning.

Another expert on hyperbole comparisons.

Israel is not at war with the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority was created with Israel's consent.

Water was cut off to selected areas, most probably due to payment issues.

Seeing as the Palestinians appear to be constantly in arrears for all utilities it might be an idea for their unquestioning donors to transfer money directly to Israeli utility companies, but then again any Palestinian discomfort is the name of the game, especially if you have a state owned media channel like Al-Jazeera to whine about it as Hamas funding Qatar has.

So a thief steals from you then forces you to pay a reward to get your belongings back.

The water has always been Palestinian, even the aquifers inside the 67 lines from which Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, which Israel now mismanages allowing Israeli swimming pools filled while Palestinians queue for bottled water because Israel has polluted or refuses to allow Palestinians to repair their wells.

No one forced the Palestinians to pay. There was an agreement signed by them. They could have opted for better terms or simply refuse. Basically, the position you often repeat amounts to this - Palestinians are not to be held accountable for anything, nothing is ever the product of their choices and decisions.

The water reserves were not always Palestinian, especially not those within the 1967 lines. This is simply another way of expressing your view that Israel should not have existed at all. Not even the Palestinians make such over reaching claims nowadays, by the way.

Your last paragraph is BS. Not often using that term, but it is what it is. Most of the pollution of water reserves relates to Palestinian mismanagement, and production procedures (or rather, lack of). Quite a bit of the water allocated for Palestinian use by Mekorot is diverted from reserves well within Israel, part of an attempt to limit over production of the mountain aquifer. Under the same agreements, Israel can deny water related construction and projects within C area. These actions get a lot of media mileage (re "repair their own wells" etc.), but usually do not dwell much on the issues caused by unauthorized and unplanned water production.

[Morch]

^^Some people can't help themselves getting carried away.

Could you support that 300% pricing bit with a credible link?

It makes you sad that terrorism is not directed solely at Israelis? Because they are the ones who "bring problems to the world"?

Well, there are in fact many terrorist attacks directed at Israelis, read on the latest here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/?p=10836480

No, it not makes me sad that it is not directed solely at Israelis!!!

It's make me sad that it not hit the right Israelis. This one who never want stop the war against the palestines. The same one who never want freedom for Israelis and Palestines and who do everything for treat the palestines harder as dogs!!! I am sad that the most time innocent Israelis die from the Rebell Attacks and much more palestines because the Israelis stroke back on innocent people..

So you still cannot support that 300% over pricing claim. Let me save you some time. The pricing was set at the times agreements were signed. It was kept at the same level for years, even as water prices in Israel rose steeply. There was one (as far as I recall) update for water prices sold to the Palestinians (and no, not a unilateral decision), which still makes prices lower than those paid by Israelis.

Oh, the "right" Israelis only. Well, who would those be? According to some posters the vast majority of Israelis are guilty of supporting the occupation, even if not directly engaged in related activities. And here's another thing - there are many on the Palestinian side which do not seek peace, nor wish for co-existence with Israel. Would your philosophy of targeting only the "right" people apply to such Palestinians?

War against the Palestinians? What war? If there was a war, the OP would not even be possible.

[Jai Dee]

An off-topic post about a US military aid package has been removed from this thread.

Please stick to the subject under discussion.

[Galactus]

Another expert on hyperbole comparisons.

Israel is not at war with the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority was created with Israel's consent.

Water was cut off to selected areas, most probably due to payment issues.

Seeing as the Palestinians appear to be constantly in arrears for all utilities it might be an idea for their unquestioning donors to transfer money directly to Israeli utility companies, but then again any Palestinian discomfort is the name of the game, especially if you have a state owned media channel like Al-Jazeera to whine about it as Hamas funding Qatar has.

So a thief steals from you then forces you to pay a reward to get your belongings back.

The water has always been Palestinian, even the aquifers inside the 67 lines from which Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, which Israel now mismanages allowing Israeli swimming pools filled while Palestinians queue for bottled water because Israel has polluted or refuses to allow Palestinians to repair their wells.

No one forced the Palestinians to pay. There was an agreement signed by them. They could have opted for better terms or simply refuse. Basically, the position you often repeat amounts to this - Palestinians are not to be held accountable for anything, nothing is ever the product of their choices and decisions.

The water reserves were not always Palestinian, especially not those within the 1967 lines. This is simply another way of expressing your view that Israel should not have existed at all. Not even the Palestinians make such over reaching claims nowadays, by the way.

Your last paragraph is BS. Not often using that term, but it is what it is. Most of the pollution of water reserves relates to Palestinian mismanagement, and production procedures (or rather, lack of). Quite a bit of the water allocated for Palestinian use by Mekorot is diverted from reserves well within Israel, part of an attempt to limit over production of the mountain aquifer. Under the same agreements, Israel can deny water related construction and projects within C area. These actions get a lot of media mileage (re "repair their own wells" etc.), but usually do not dwell much on the issues caused by unauthorized and unplanned water production.

so palestinians refuse the agreement and stay dry and die from dehydration in a hot desert? what choice they have?? unconditional stupid support by US for Israel, constant Israeli oppression, phosphorus bombs, illegal settlers are like Sword of Damocles above the heads of palestinians.

and why palestinians need to sign agreement with a rogue state for the water belong to palestinians?

so someone comes and gets your well by force and you need to sign an agreement with the guy for the well belongs to you for water? basically not fair isnt it?

please dont be funny morch. you are either naive or you pretend to be a naive to distort facts which is worse.

but let me explain you the situation with pictures. maybe this time you can understand bc you cannot understand easily by words:

Israelis are filling their swimming pools and watering their golf course etc with the water belongs to others while we are speaking and Palestinians are sitting under desert sun with no water to drink or to give their children!

and Israelis look like enjoying their golf course and swimming pools while some other do not have even have basic access for water and sanitation which is against human rights.

a swimming pool for every backyard in Israel!:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/a-swimming-pool-in-every-backyard-1.219352

But Palestinians do not look like they are having fun with the inhumane water cut by Israel and children carry water to home for kilometers, is this fair?:

Edited June 16, 2016 by Galactus

[Morch]

@Galactus

Sometimes hard to figure if posters are dense or trolling.

The agreement referred to was part of the Oslo Accords. No one forced the Palestinians to sign the Oslo Accords or any related agreement. They could have opted for better conditions during the negotiations, or they could have walked off if the deal wasn't good enough. Israel is not a "rouge state" and the reason the Palestinians signed the Oslo Accords got to do with previous historical choices made. Actions got no consequences only in the imaginary reality some posters dwell in. And pushing "phosphorous bombs" into every post will not change that.

Here is a novel concept - life if not always fair. And sometimes people make decisions which cause them difficulties later on. In real life, not every choice can be undone or ignored. But do go on calling me "naive".... While at it kindly point out which "facts" did I distort.

And speaking of distorting facts:

The Gold course in question is well inside the 1967 lines, and the article linked got little to do with the topic at hand (other than highlighting Israel's interest in water related technologies). It seems your idea of fairness would be for Israel to be on par with the Palestinians, just for the sake of....whatever.