Israel cuts water supplies to West Bank during Ramadan

JingerBen · June 16, 2016

Palestinians who complain about water shortages can just pack up and move.

There are plenty of Israeli settlers who are waiting to take their place.

What you say is, as always, utterly crap

Jeez....one would imagine that by now posters would be aware of other poster's unchanging positions.

In case your missed it, JingerBen's comment was more in line with your views.

Thanks for that perceptive observation.

My post was ironic...

Just a quick reaction to another Israeli provocation against the Palestinians.

Live within your internationally recognized 1967 borders.

Peace Now, bro.

dexterm · June 16, 2016

@Morch

Ah the Oslo Accords, the mendacious deal to fool Arafat into thinking he was actually negotiating in good faith for peace and a Palestinian state within 5 years. While for Israel it was simply smoke and mirrors and time to steal more land and water. The treaty was only an interim peace agreement initiated in 1993 which was meant to end within 5 years

The Accords are now dead and were moribund 20 years ago. Trampled over by Israel long ago, but still dragged out by Israeli apologists now and then, whenever Israel steals more land or water to cherry pick the appropriate parts to suit their repressive agenda. But there is not a single Israeli cabinet member who would agree with the main point of the Accords...an end to the occupation and creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Arafat in good faith (but retrospectively naively) put aside major issues for negotiation with in the next 5 years such as water, the final status of Jerusalem, the Occupied Territories, sovereignty, security, the illegal Israeli settlements and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

Israel draws 80% of water from the Mountain Aquifer supplied mainly by rain over the West Bank, allowing Palestinians a mere 20% even though this is their sole source of water while Israel, which can also draw fresh water from the Coastal Aquifer and Lake Kinneret/Tiberias/Sea of Galilee and the Jordan River. It is illegal for Palestinians to draw even spring water near the Jordan River

There are some heartbreaking examples of the way inequitable distribution of water imposed by Israel causes untold hardship to Palestinians in this Amnesty International Report. How Israel destroys Occupied Palestinian wells, irrigation infrastructure and farms. Well worth a read if you want to know the unbiased truth about Israel's water theft.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

Morch · June 16, 2016

Palestinians who complain about water shortages can just pack up and move.

There are plenty of Israeli settlers who are waiting to take their place.

What you say is, as always, utterly crap

Jeez....one would imagine that by now posters would be aware of other poster's unchanging positions.

In case your missed it, JingerBen's comment was more in line with your views.

Thanks for that perceptive observation.

My post was ironic...

Just a quick reaction to another Israeli provocation against the Palestinians.

Live within your internationally recognized 1967 borders.

Peace Now, bro.

How is the OP a "provocation"?

dexterm · June 16, 2016

Interesting graphics to help explain the Israeli water theft..

http://www.trueactivist.com/20-must-see-infographics-explaining-the-palestinian-israeli-conflict/

Morch · June 16, 2016

@Morch

Ah the Oslo Accords, the mendacious deal to fool Arafat into thinking he was actually negotiating in good faith for peace and a Palestinian state within 5 years. While for Israel it was simply smoke and mirrors and time to steal more land and water. The treaty was only an interim peace agreement initiated in 1993 which was meant to end within 5 years

The Accords are now dead and were moribund 20 years ago. Trampled over by Israel long ago, but still dragged out by Israeli apologists now and then, whenever Israel steals more land or water to cherry pick the appropriate parts to suit their repressive agenda. But there is not a single Israeli cabinet member who would agree with the main point of the Accords...an end to the occupation and creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Arafat in good faith (but retrospectively naively) put aside major issues for negotiation with in the next 5 years such as water, the final status of Jerusalem, the Occupied Territories, sovereignty, security, the illegal Israeli settlements and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

Israel draws 80% of water from the Mountain Aquifer supplied mainly by rain over the West Bank, allowing Palestinians a mere 20% even though this is their sole source of water while Israel, which can also draw fresh water from the Coastal Aquifer and Lake Kinneret/Tiberias/Sea of Galilee and the Jordan River. It is illegal for Palestinians to draw even spring water near the Jordan River

There are some heartbreaking examples of the way inequitable distribution of water imposed by Israel causes untold hardship to Palestinians in this Amnesty International Report. How Israel destroys Occupied Palestinian wells, irrigation infrastructure and farms. Well worth a read if you want to know the unbiased truth about Israel's water theft.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

The usual nonsense.

If the Palestinians did not wish to go along with the Oslo Accords they could have, if they wished to fully renege on the agreement, they can. The claim that they were coerced or forced into signing got no legs to stand on. As usual, any failures are attributed to external factors, no accountability whatsoever. Posting over and over again that Arafat was negotiating in good faith, whereas the Israeli side wasn't is a fairy tale, used as an excuse for pretty much anything signed by the Palestinian side.

Talking about smoke and mirrors: contrary to what you post, the Oslo Accords' main point was not the creation of a viable Palestinian state. This is myth is spread via such nonsense posts, but does not and did not appear in the Accords. Even Israel's PM at the time, Rabin, publicly referred to "less than a state".

The Accords were mentioned not because they are alive and kicking, but simply because they are the only mechanism in place which regulates water issues between Israel and the Palestinians. If this agreement was to be scraped or disregarded, things would be even worse for the Palestinians. I get it this does not matter much for keyboard warriors, and might even play well for extra PR points.

As pointed out in an earlier post, I do not claim that the allocation of water resources is fair or nor just. With that said, I will point out again that this situation is at least partially a product of Palestinian choices, decisions and failures. Laying all the blame on Israel is simply a refusal to see the Palestinians as responsible for their own actions.

Quite a bit of the water Israel sells to the Palestinians is produced from sources well within Israel, and not from mountain aquifer. Considering how Palestinian water management and production carries on, having them in charge of the mountain aquifer would result in no one getting any benefit out of it whatsoever. Calling Amnesty "unbiased" is one of them tongue in cheek things (at best).

Morch · June 16, 2016

@dexterm

That visual propaganda bit originates from EWASH. The very same EWASH that objected to a UN backed desalinization project in the Gaza Strip, mainly on political grounds.

Somehow it fails to show the amount of illegal (as in not even authorized by the PA) water production facilities, or to Palestinians pretty much rejecting use of treated water for agriculture, or the PA's inability to monitor and manage revenues.

Galactus · June 16, 2016

@Morch

Ah the Oslo Accords, the mendacious deal to fool Arafat into thinking he was actually negotiating in good faith for peace and a Palestinian state within 5 years. While for Israel it was simply smoke and mirrors and time to steal more land and water. The treaty was only an interim peace agreement initiated in 1993 which was meant to end within 5 years

The Accords are now dead and were moribund 20 years ago. Trampled over by Israel long ago, but still dragged out by Israeli apologists now and then, whenever Israel steals more land or water to cherry pick the appropriate parts to suit their repressive agenda. But there is not a single Israeli cabinet member who would agree with the main point of the Accords...an end to the occupation and creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Arafat in good faith (but retrospectively naively) put aside major issues for negotiation with in the next 5 years such as water, the final status of Jerusalem, the Occupied Territories, sovereignty, security, the illegal Israeli settlements and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

Israel draws 80% of water from the Mountain Aquifer supplied mainly by rain over the West Bank, allowing Palestinians a mere 20% even though this is their sole source of water while Israel, which can also draw fresh water from the Coastal Aquifer and Lake Kinneret/Tiberias/Sea of Galilee and the Jordan River. It is illegal for Palestinians to draw even spring water near the Jordan River

There are some heartbreaking examples of the way inequitable distribution of water imposed by Israel causes untold hardship to Palestinians in this Amnesty International Report. How Israel destroys Occupied Palestinian wells, irrigation infrastructure and farms. Well worth a read if you want to know the unbiased truth about Israel's water theft.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

that is a great reading and clearly explains everything. thanks dexterm.

Steely Dan · June 16, 2016

I knew it was only a matter of time before the latest lies about Israel would be de-bunked. Israel actually INCREASED water supplies during Ramadan, a fact some of our esteemed members will no doubt find deeply disappointing.

https://ukmediawatch.org/2016/06/16/contrary-to-indy-charge-israel-increased-water-supply-to-palestinians-during-ramadan/

Scott · June 16, 2016

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.

Morch · June 16, 2016

Deleted.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Morch

dexterm · June 16, 2016

@Morch

Ah the Oslo Accords, the mendacious deal to fool Arafat into thinking he was actually negotiating in good faith for peace and a Palestinian state within 5 years. While for Israel it was simply smoke and mirrors and time to steal more land and water. The treaty was only an interim peace agreement initiated in 1993 which was meant to end within 5 years

The Accords are now dead and were moribund 20 years ago. Trampled over by Israel long ago, but still dragged out by Israeli apologists now and then, whenever Israel steals more land or water to cherry pick the appropriate parts to suit their repressive agenda. But there is not a single Israeli cabinet member who would agree with the main point of the Accords...an end to the occupation and creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Arafat in good faith (but retrospectively naively) put aside major issues for negotiation with in the next 5 years such as water, the final status of Jerusalem, the Occupied Territories, sovereignty, security, the illegal Israeli settlements and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

Israel draws 80% of water from the Mountain Aquifer supplied mainly by rain over the West Bank, allowing Palestinians a mere 20% even though this is their sole source of water while Israel, which can also draw fresh water from the Coastal Aquifer and Lake Kinneret/Tiberias/Sea of Galilee and the Jordan River. It is illegal for Palestinians to draw even spring water near the Jordan River

There are some heartbreaking examples of the way inequitable distribution of water imposed by Israel causes untold hardship to Palestinians in this Amnesty International Report. How Israel destroys Occupied Palestinian wells, irrigation infrastructure and farms. Well worth a read if you want to know the unbiased truth about Israel's water theft.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

The usual nonsense.

If the Palestinians did not wish to go along with the Oslo Accords they could have, if they wished to fully renege on the agreement, they can. The claim that they were coerced or forced into signing got no legs to stand on. As usual, any failures are attributed to external factors, no accountability whatsoever. Posting over and over again that Arafat was negotiating in good faith, whereas the Israeli side wasn't is a fairy tale, used as an excuse for pretty much anything signed by the Palestinian side.

Talking about smoke and mirrors: contrary to what you post, the Oslo Accords' main point was not the creation of a viable Palestinian state. This is myth is spread via such nonsense posts, but does not and did not appear in the Accords. Even Israel's PM at the time, Rabin, publicly referred to "less than a state".

The Accords were mentioned not because they are alive and kicking, but simply because they are the only mechanism in place which regulates water issues between Israel and the Palestinians. If this agreement was to be scraped or disregarded, things would be even worse for the Palestinians. I get it this does not matter much for keyboard warriors, and might even play well for extra PR points.

As pointed out in an earlier post, I do not claim that the allocation of water resources is fair or nor just. With that said, I will point out again that this situation is at least partially a product of Palestinian choices, decisions and failures. Laying all the blame on Israel is simply a refusal to see the Palestinians as responsible for their own actions.

Quite a bit of the water Israel sells to the Palestinians is produced from sources well within Israel, and not from mountain aquifer. Considering how Palestinian water management and production carries on, having them in charge of the mountain aquifer would result in no one getting any benefit out of it whatsoever. Calling Amnesty "unbiased" is one of them tongue in cheek things (at best).

I never said the Palestinians were forced into an agreement. I said they accepted it as the best hope they had in all sincerity.

If Israel were such honest peace brokers and partners, do you think Oslo was a good deal for the Palestinians?

"The Oslo Accords marked the start of the Oslo process, a peace process that is aimed at achieving a peace-treaty based on the United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 and 338, and to fulfill the "right of the Palestinian people to self-determination."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Israel ignored the core issue of the agreement which was the phased withdrawal of the Israeli military from Palestinian territories and the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" in accordance with UN Resolution 242.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolut ion_242

So if the IDF were supposed to withdraw gradually from Occupied Territories in the spirit of 242 i.e.you can't acquire land by war. How come the IDF now has effective control of every inch of the West Bank? They can send hit and snatch squads in any of Areas A, B, or C.

How come the Zionist colonists' population has increased from 250,000 to 750,000 since Oslo?

That's what I call cheating smoke and mirrors

You seem to imply that it is a level playing field. It is not. Israel is the only party with an army and the power. They can enforce or ignore any part of the deal they like including water distribution. The Palestinians are the ones who have been invaded and occupied, not the other way around.

If Israel ended its occupation and the water greedy colonists got back behind the 67 lines, Palestinians could have all the water they neeeded from the Mountain Aquifer and their own springs without needing permission from Israel or the need to buy Israeli stolen water.

snowgard · June 16, 2016

So you still cannot support that 300% over pricing claim. Let me save you some time. The pricing was set at the times agreements were signed. It was kept at the same level for years, even as water prices in Israel rose steeply. There was one (as far as I recall) update for water prices sold to the Palestinians (and no, not a unilateral decision), which still makes prices lower than those paid by Israelis.
Oh, the "right" Israelis only. Well, who would those be? According to some posters the vast majority of Israelis are guilty of supporting the occupation, even if not directly engaged in related activities. And here's another thing - there are many on the Palestinian side which do not seek peace, nor wish for co-existence with Israel. Would your philosophy of targeting only the "right" people apply to such Palestinians?

War against the Palestinians? What war? If there was a war, the OP would not even be possible.

Why you not search self for it??? I am sure you can find a lot of sources. But I am sure too that you give a shit on it.

Here are some sources 300% - 1000% water pricing claim:

https://blog.eappi.org/2016/05/24/visualising-the-daily-struggle-to-access-water/

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=526588

http://www.unicef.org/oPt/press_statement_-_GVC_-_April_2016.pdf

Not forget the super high prices now at the shortage time where they must buy the water from water trucks if they don't want die.

I know this are all lies!!! The palestines pay the same price as the israel seddlers. This is something what the Israelis learned from the Nazi Propaganda!!!! :-)

The palestine leaders who don't want stop to fight are at most in prisons or died already from target bombs and israelian snipers.

But this produce only more and more and more terror .....

Edited June 16, 2016 by snowgard

Morch · June 16, 2016

@Morch

Ah the Oslo Accords, the mendacious deal to fool Arafat into thinking he was actually negotiating in good faith for peace and a Palestinian state within 5 years. While for Israel it was simply smoke and mirrors and time to steal more land and water. The treaty was only an interim peace agreement initiated in 1993 which was meant to end within 5 years

The Accords are now dead and were moribund 20 years ago. Trampled over by Israel long ago, but still dragged out by Israeli apologists now and then, whenever Israel steals more land or water to cherry pick the appropriate parts to suit their repressive agenda. But there is not a single Israeli cabinet member who would agree with the main point of the Accords...an end to the occupation and creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Arafat in good faith (but retrospectively naively) put aside major issues for negotiation with in the next 5 years such as water, the final status of Jerusalem, the Occupied Territories, sovereignty, security, the illegal Israeli settlements and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

Israel draws 80% of water from the Mountain Aquifer supplied mainly by rain over the West Bank, allowing Palestinians a mere 20% even though this is their sole source of water while Israel, which can also draw fresh water from the Coastal Aquifer and Lake Kinneret/Tiberias/Sea of Galilee and the Jordan River. It is illegal for Palestinians to draw even spring water near the Jordan River

There are some heartbreaking examples of the way inequitable distribution of water imposed by Israel causes untold hardship to Palestinians in this Amnesty International Report. How Israel destroys Occupied Palestinian wells, irrigation infrastructure and farms. Well worth a read if you want to know the unbiased truth about Israel's water theft.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdf/mde150272009en.pdf

The usual nonsense.

If the Palestinians did not wish to go along with the Oslo Accords they could have, if they wished to fully renege on the agreement, they can. The claim that they were coerced or forced into signing got no legs to stand on. As usual, any failures are attributed to external factors, no accountability whatsoever. Posting over and over again that Arafat was negotiating in good faith, whereas the Israeli side wasn't is a fairy tale, used as an excuse for pretty much anything signed by the Palestinian side.

Talking about smoke and mirrors: contrary to what you post, the Oslo Accords' main point was not the creation of a viable Palestinian state. This is myth is spread via such nonsense posts, but does not and did not appear in the Accords. Even Israel's PM at the time, Rabin, publicly referred to "less than a state".

The Accords were mentioned not because they are alive and kicking, but simply because they are the only mechanism in place which regulates water issues between Israel and the Palestinians. If this agreement was to be scraped or disregarded, things would be even worse for the Palestinians. I get it this does not matter much for keyboard warriors, and might even play well for extra PR points.

As pointed out in an earlier post, I do not claim that the allocation of water resources is fair or nor just. With that said, I will point out again that this situation is at least partially a product of Palestinian choices, decisions and failures. Laying all the blame on Israel is simply a refusal to see the Palestinians as responsible for their own actions.

Quite a bit of the water Israel sells to the Palestinians is produced from sources well within Israel, and not from mountain aquifer. Considering how Palestinian water management and production carries on, having them in charge of the mountain aquifer would result in no one getting any benefit out of it whatsoever. Calling Amnesty "unbiased" is one of them tongue in cheek things (at best).

I never said the Palestinians were forced into an agreement. I said they accepted it as the best hope they had in all sincerity.

If Israel were such honest peace brokers and partners, do you think Oslo was a good deal for the Palestinians?

"The Oslo Accords marked the start of the Oslo process, a peace process that is aimed at achieving a peace-treaty based on the United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 and 338, and to fulfill the "right of the Palestinian people to self-determination."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Israel ignored the core issue of the agreement which was the phased withdrawal of the Israeli military from Palestinian territories and the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" in accordance with UN Resolution 242.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolut ion_242

So if the IDF were supposed to withdraw gradually from Occupied Territories in the spirit of 242 i.e.you can't acquire land by war. How come the IDF now has effective control of every inch of the West Bank? They can send hit and snatch squads in any of Areas A, B, or C.

How come the Zionist colonists' population has increased from 250,000 to 750,000 since Oslo?

That's what I call cheating smoke and mirrors

You seem to imply that it is a level playing field. It is not. Israel is the only party with an army and the power. They can enforce or ignore any part of the deal they like including water distribution. The Palestinians are the ones who have been invaded and occupied, not the other way around.

If Israel ended its occupation and the water greedy colonists got back behind the 67 lines, Palestinians could have all the water they neeeded from the Mountain Aquifer and their own springs without needing permission from Israel or the need to buy Israeli stolen water.

And the usual off topic rants go on....

Keep on harping on that Palestinian sincerity and Arafat's "good faith" is low level salesmanship. Expecting posters to believe that a leadership which dedicated so many years for a struggle to suddenly become a bunch of bumbling naive yahoos ain't gonna cut it. Even if they were as easily mislead as you wish to present, would be more honest to accept some responsibility for that rather than whinging. Never did I say anything to the effect that Israel went into negotiations with the best of intentions - most international negotiations are a meeting of interests.

UN resolution 242 does not even mention the Palestinian explicitly, and 338 is (again) more to do with cease-fire between Israel and neighbor states. The Oslo Accords did not refer to a Palestinian state as well (typically, it even appears in the link you posted).

Glossing over the Palestinian side not living up to all of its commitments as well and failing to mention two intifada's, is one way to pin all responsibility on Israel. Nice try, but no cigar. As for the Israeli illegal settlement effort, I have nothing positive to say about that, as you would know from my posting history.

I never implied this is a level playing field. Should be obvious from the countless "life is not always fair" comments peppering my posts, even on this topic. The difference being that while I see Palestinian choices as contributing to this state of things, you'd rather paint them as passive, naive and clueless. This allows for them accountability discounts afforded to the Palestinians by such as yourself.

And finally, something half-relevant to the OP...

If and if and if....Not a word about different choices or courses of action the Palestinians may have taken. But to address your fantasy "if...", no - water rights for the mountain aquifer would not be solely Palestinian, under such circumstances, but probably shared more equally. That said, it is almost an assured outcome that the mountain aquifer would deteriorate quickly if left to be managed by the Palestinians.

Morch · June 16, 2016

So you still cannot support that 300% over pricing claim. Let me save you some time. The pricing was set at the times agreements were signed. It was kept at the same level for years, even as water prices in Israel rose steeply. There was one (as far as I recall) update for water prices sold to the Palestinians (and no, not a unilateral decision), which still makes prices lower than those paid by Israelis.
Oh, the "right" Israelis only. Well, who would those be? According to some posters the vast majority of Israelis are guilty of supporting the occupation, even if not directly engaged in related activities. And here's another thing - there are many on the Palestinian side which do not seek peace, nor wish for co-existence with Israel. Would your philosophy of targeting only the "right" people apply to such Palestinians?

War against the Palestinians? What war? If there was a war, the OP would not even be possible.

Why you not search self for it??? I am sure you can find a lot of sources. But I am sure too that you give a shit on it.

Here are some sources 300% - 1000% water pricing claim:

https://blog.eappi.org/2016/05/24/visualising-the-daily-struggle-to-access-water/

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=526588

http://www.unicef.org/oPt/press_statement_-_GVC_-_April_2016.pdf

Not forget the super high prices now at the shortage time where they must buy the water from water trucks if they don't want die.

I know this are all lies!!! The palestines pay the same price as the israel seddlers. This is something what the Israelis learned from the Nazi Propaganda!!!! :-)

The palestine leaders who don't want stop to fight are at most in prisons or died already from target bombs and israelian snipers.

But this produce only more and more and more terror .....

Why I do not search for corroboration of your own post? Because you're supposed to be able to back up your own post, not the other way around.

The first link refers to water delivered by tankers etc. These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

The second link refers to a price increase by Israel, which I noted on a previous post. The original prices were set circa 1994, and this was the first (and I think only) time they were raised. The price, however, is still lower than what Israeli consumers pay (and nowhere in the article linked it says otherwise).

The third link is a call for donations related to a project in the West Bank - it says nothing about about overpricing of water.

So no, in general Palestinians do not pay the same price as Israeli illegal settlers, but less. Them Israeli illegal settlers pay Israeli prices, which are higher. The exorbitant fees charged by Palestinian suppliers for water delivered by tankers is not quite the same thing as you claim. This is not propaganda, but reality.

The Palestinian leaders who don't want to stop the fight are either imprisoned or dead? So who is it that carries out attacks against Israelis? Zombies? Who leads the Palestinians then?

dexterm · June 16, 2016

@Morch

So lets get this straight.

You condemn the illegal occupation of the West Bank.

You imply that the Oslo Accords were unfair.

You concur that the present water distribution arrangement is not equitable.

Yet you still continue post after post to defend the state of Israel, even though it perpetuates these injustices, while hiding behind the pathetic excuse that "life is not always fair".

Why can't you stand up for what is fair?

It's positively weird that you defend the indefensible.

You know that something is rotten in the state of Israel, when Israeli colonists enjoy full swimming pools, landscaped lawns and sprinkler systemed gardens and farms in their Jewish only compounds built on confiscated Palestinian lands, when less than a mile away Palestinians queue up for inflated priced water trucks and bottled drinking water imported from Israel, while irrigation systems are destroyed by the IDF with permits to repair or dig wells denied.

Then play patronizing hypotheticals, and claim that the Palestinians could not manage their own water resources if they were even allowed to.

They couldn't do much worse than Israel is doing in the OP.

Edited June 16, 2016 by dexterm

Ulysses G. · June 16, 2016

Yet you still continue post after post to defend the state of Israel, even though it perpetuates these injustices, while hiding behind the pathetic excuse that "life is not always fair".

You are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians initiated the violence in the first place and have plenty of their own sins to answer for. He defends Israel because this is not a one-sided affair and the Palestinians are in many ways responsible for their own plight. I defend Israel, because I am convinced that they are far superior morally and intellectually to radical Islam and their other enemies.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Ulysses G.

dexterm · June 17, 2016

Yet you still continue post after post to defend the state of Israel, even though it perpetuates these injustices, while hiding behind the pathetic excuse that "life is not always fair".

You are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians initiated the violence in the first place and have plenty of their own sins to answer for. He defends Israel because this is not a one-sided affair and the Palestinians are in many ways responsible for their own plight. I defend Israel, because I am convinced that they are far superior morally and intellectually to radical Islam and their other enemies.

Off topic trolling with an attempt to deflect discussion to the early history of the conflict. The OP is about Israel's current inequitable distribution of water resources. Would gladly debate in another thread another time maybe. But not playing your usual deflection game today.

Galactus · June 17, 2016

Yet you still continue post after post to defend the state of Israel, even though it perpetuates these injustices, while hiding behind the pathetic excuse that "life is not always fair".

You are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians initiated the violence in the first place and have plenty of their own sins to answer for. He defends Israel because this is not a one-sided affair and the Palestinians are in many ways responsible for their own plight. I defend Israel, because I am convinced that they are far superior morally and intellectually to radical Islam and their other enemies.

So you say Israel as an angel of humanity bringing happiness, justice and protection to this world?)

Israel has a lot more sins to answer than Palestinians on this as and occupying rogue state.

yeah maybe Israel is superior on oppressing people, stealing land, cutting the water and acting against human rights:)

snowgard · June 17, 2016

These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

Sorry, but I can't found the BULK WATER TARIFFS from Mekorot what the Israel Settlers must pay but I am sure it is a much more smaller price as what the palestinians pay. Don't tell me the settlers don't become extra bulk prices what they use for their own household too.

And your comment show me your crazy thinking. If the Israelis cut the water and the palestinians need water trucks with much more higher prices so that they not die, who is the ...ing bastard? And than to say what you wrote up is in my eyes the badest what someone can say. This made me Speakless!!!

But the settlers got full water access!!!

It's like Dogs don't need water but the Israelis Settlers. Full Nazi Style!!!

Edited June 17, 2016 by snowgard

Morch · June 17, 2016

@Morch

So lets get this straight.

You condemn the illegal occupation of the West Bank.

You imply that the Oslo Accords were unfair.

You concur that the present water distribution arrangement is not equitable.

Yet you still continue post after post to defend the state of Israel, even though it perpetuates these injustices, while hiding behind the pathetic excuse that "life is not always fair".

Why can't you stand up for what is fair?

It's positively weird that you defend the indefensible.

You know that something is rotten in the state of Israel, when Israeli colonists enjoy full swimming pools, landscaped lawns and sprinkler systemed gardens and farms in their Jewish only compounds built on confiscated Palestinian lands, when less than a mile away Palestinians queue up for inflated priced water trucks and bottled drinking water imported from Israel, while irrigation systems are destroyed by the IDF with permits to repair or dig wells denied.

Then play patronizing hypotheticals, and claim that the Palestinians could not manage their own water resources if they were even allowed to.

They couldn't do much worse than Israel is doing in the OP.

Yeah, lets get it straight.

Having nothing much to say on the OP (which appears to somewhat less credible then presented), you turned to off topic rants about the previous related agreements between Israel and the Palestinians. When this nonsense was countered, you resort to ad hominem argumentation. Rather pathetic.

To add another point - please do not make twisted assumptions as to my position, what I "know". The usual moral chest beating remains unimpressive when it comes from someone holding hateful one-sided views, and willing to justify anything in the name of the "cause".

Morch · June 17, 2016

These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

Sorry, but I can't found the BULK WATER TARIFFS from Mekorot what the Israel Settlers must pay but I am sure it is a much more smaller price as what the palestinians pay. Don't tell me the settlers don't become extra bulk prices what they use for their own household too.

And your comment show me your crazy thinking. If the Israelis cut the water and the palestinians need water trucks with much more higher prices so that they not die, who is the ...ing bastard? And than to say what you wrote up is in my eyes the badest what someone can say. This made me Speakless!!!

But the settlers got full water access!!!

It's like Dogs don't need water but the Israelis Settlers. Full Nazi Style!!!

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.

So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Morch

Galactus · June 17, 2016

These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

Sorry, but I can't found the BULK WATER TARIFFS from Mekorot what the Israel Settlers must pay but I am sure it is a much more smaller price as what the palestinians pay. Don't tell me the settlers don't become extra bulk prices what they use for their own household too.

And your comment show me your crazy thinking. If the Israelis cut the water and the palestinians need water trucks with much more higher prices so that they not die, who is the ...ing bastard? And than to say what you wrote up is in my eyes the badest what someone can say. This made me Speakless!!!

But the settlers got full water access!!!

It's like Dogs don't need water but the Israelis Settlers. Full Nazi Style!!!

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.

So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

So what are you defending morch?

It is hard to understand you bc at every post, you add new things:

1. Israel did not cut water.

2. Israel is right to cut the water.

3. It is palestinians fault to sign an agreement and get less water.

4. It is not israel's responsibility to provide enough water to palestinians.

5. Israel is more powerful and can do whatever it wants.

6. It is not fair for palestinians.

I mean once you say it is not fair for palestinians and other you say it is palestine signed the agreement and another you say it is not israel's responsibility to provide water to everyone etc etc.

You post a bit messy. focus and gather your thoughts first before posting.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Galactus

Scott · June 17, 2016

Keep it civil.

Morch · June 17, 2016

These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

Sorry, but I can't found the BULK WATER TARIFFS from Mekorot what the Israel Settlers must pay but I am sure it is a much more smaller price as what the palestinians pay. Don't tell me the settlers don't become extra bulk prices what they use for their own household too.

And your comment show me your crazy thinking. If the Israelis cut the water and the palestinians need water trucks with much more higher prices so that they not die, who is the ...ing bastard? And than to say what you wrote up is in my eyes the badest what someone can say. This made me Speakless!!!

But the settlers got full water access!!!

It's like Dogs don't need water but the Israelis Settlers. Full Nazi Style!!!

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.

So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

So what are you defending morch?

It is hard to understand you bc at every post, you add new things:

1. Israel did not cut water.

2. Israel is right to cut the water.

3. It is palestinians fault to sign an agreement and get less water.

4. It is not israel's responsibility to provide enough water to palestinians.

5. Israel is more powerful and can do whatever it wants.

6. It is not fair for palestinians.

I mean once you say it is not fair for palestinians and other you say it is palestine signed the agreement and another you say it is not israel's responsibility to provide water to everyone etc etc.

You post a bit messy. focus and gather your thoughts first before posting.

A follow up ad hominem argumentation post. I wasn't "defending" anything, merely dispelling some of the nonsense posted. Nor am I responsible for posters comprehension issues. And not me adding new things, rather responding to nonsense posting by others. Talk about focus....

The "list" above includes things I did post, kindly don't put words in my mouth. Better trolling next time.

DeaconJohn · June 17, 2016

These tankers are not Israeli, but operated by the PA or local outsourced companies. Quite often, the water originates from illegal (as in not authorized by the PA) wells, or by stealing water from the existing infrastructure (again, this refers mostly to the PA).

Sorry, but I can't found the BULK WATER TARIFFS from Mekorot what the Israel Settlers must pay but I am sure it is a much more smaller price as what the palestinians pay. Don't tell me the settlers don't become extra bulk prices what they use for their own household too.

And your comment show me your crazy thinking. If the Israelis cut the water and the palestinians need water trucks with much more higher prices so that they not die, who is the ...ing bastard? And than to say what you wrote up is in my eyes the badest what someone can say. This made me Speakless!!!

But the settlers got full water access!!!

It's like Dogs don't need water but the Israelis Settlers. Full Nazi Style!!!

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.

So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

So what are you defending morch?

It is hard to understand you bc at every post, you add new things:

1. Israel did not cut water.

2. Israel is right to cut the water.

3. It is palestinians fault to sign an agreement and get less water.

4. It is not israel's responsibility to provide enough water to palestinians.

5. Israel is more powerful and can do whatever it wants.

6. It is not fair for palestinians.

I mean once you say it is not fair for palestinians and other you say it is palestine signed the agreement and another you say it is not israel's responsibility to provide water to everyone etc etc.

You post a bit messy. focus and gather your thoughts first before posting.

That's a very good summing-up.

Concise and to the point.

It is a justifiable critique without the nasty personal abuse so often encountered here.

dexterm · June 17, 2016

deleted

Edited June 17, 2016 by dexterm

Steely Dan · June 17, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?

snowgard · June 17, 2016

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.
So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

Offensive is what Israel do with the palestinians!!! I showed you that source what I found with higher water prices. You said this some palestineians charge self, But why they charge it? Because the Israelis stop the water and so someone must use the trucks and drive and buy water. Easy to understanding or not.

Also if the israelis pay the same waterprices why YOU don't show us the bulk water tariffs for the settlers so we can see that we think wrong!!!

But I don't believe you wanna do it!!!

snowgard · June 17, 2016

I think I found it!!! The palestinians pay 8.8 Shakels household tariff and the settlers just pay 2.2 Shakels as GROWERS for Agriculture!!!! So it's 400% different!!!

Or did I read it wrong???

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-1.622913

http://www.water.gov.il/Hebrew/ProfessionalInfoAndData/2012/10-Israel-Water-Sector-Economics-Policy-and-Tarrifs.pdf

Morch · June 17, 2016

I see you still can't make a post without being unnecessarily offensive. Usually that's not an indication of being able to make a point, but the opposite.
So you have no idea regarding the water tariffs relevant to Israelis, and yet claim Palestinians are charged 300%-1000% more. You are simply "sure" that illegal Israeli settlers pay less, based on pretty much nothing at all. Sound reasoning there.

Israel is not responsible for laying out the the water infrastructure all over the West Bank. Israel (via Mekorot) provides the water to municipalities, not private consumers.

I think you are mainly speechless because you are not all that informed regarding the topic you post on. This might also explain the frustration evident in your foul language and repeated Nazi references.

Offensive is what Israel do with the palestinians!!! I showed you that source what I found with higher water prices. You said this some palestineians charge self, But why they charge it? Because the Israelis stop the water and so someone must use the trucks and drive and buy water. Easy to understanding or not.

Also if the israelis pay the same waterprices why YOU don't show us the bulk water tariffs for the settlers so we can see that we think wrong!!!

But I don't believe you wanna do it!!!

No, offensive is the language you use in your posts.

You haven't shown any support for your claim that Palestinians pay 300%-1000% more for water than Israelis. It is a little ridiculous making this claim while also admitting no knowledge as to what Israelis are charged. Expecting another poster to provide support while you fail to do so, is not how discussions are conducted on most forums.

Once again, Israel does not cut off water to individual Palestinians. The water is provided to Palestinian municipalities, which are responsible for distribution and infrastructure on their end. The Palestinian side is not too great at either developing or maintaining infrastructure, same goes for billing and revenues. The price charged by Palestinian suppliers for water delivered in tankers is not regulated by Israel, but supposedly by the PA. In effect, there are a lot of "black market" operators, with regard to both water production and distribution, who charge inflated prices.

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