Israel cuts water supplies to West Bank during Ramadan

JingerBen · June 18, 2016

Israel sucks.

They go out of their way to cause trouble ,

and then when they get a little payback, they scream that they are being persecuted.

They are cocky and act tough as long as they know the U.S will finance and support them.

Israel has been an "independent" country for about 60 years now.

It is time they were truly independent and learned how to conduct themselves in a manor that does not put their existence in jeopardy with out a big brother to stick up for them.

Their attitude is a huge reason there can be no peace in the middle east, and that puts the safety of the entire world at risk.

They are the spoiled brats and bullies of the world and they need to grow up.

It's past time the USA let Israel either sink or swim on their own

Hear! Hear!

That needed to be said.

It is the obvious truth that is buried under a mountain of claptrap.

dick dasterdly · June 18, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?
The burst pipe you refer to disrupted supplies to a mere 5 villages: Marda, Biddya, Jammain, Salfit and Tapuach.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-cuts-water-supplies-west-bank-ramadan-160614205022059.html

If it has been repaired, will it all be hunk dory again with occupied Palestinians now able to refill ther swimming pools just like their nearby neighbors in the illegal Zionist colony?

The OP article has certainly opened up a hornet's nest of the further insidious nastiness and greed of Israel's illegal occupation.

Under the Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory, it has a duty of care towards the people it occupies, including public health and non destruction of property [incl wells and irrigation systems]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

If Israel does not wish to cop so much flak for its occupation...easy...stop building further illegal colonies on stolen land and end the occupation.

Hornets nest? Hardly! Indeed aside from Al-Jazeera and a small smattering of leftist newspapers in the west nobody is getting worked up, aside from some of our esteemed members that is. The world is moving on rapidly. There's Brexit, the migrant crisis, US presidential race, hostile relations with Russia and China. Not to mention ISIS. This is but a small side show within a side show.

Israel is now allied with many Arab states, the world has moved on, so too will the Palestinians one day leaving their 'supporters' left in search of a new victim to demonize Israel with.

Sounds fair enough to me. Israel taking the vast majority of water from Palestinian water sources and then depriving the Palestinians of water (forcing them to buy over-priced water from other greedy Palestinians) is a great war tactic.

I'm 'joking' obviously - as its appalling that anyone would condone homes being able to water their gardens/fill swimming pools etc, whilst also blocking access to water to others.

Morch · June 18, 2016

Israel has long rationed water to Palestinians. This is water pumped from wells and rivers inside Palestine. But Israel has seized control of all the water and doles it out one drop at a time.

From the very first, the policy of the Israeli government has been to make conditions of life intolerable for Palestinians so they will leave and make way for Israeli settlers.

It is all part of realizing the Zionist dream of Eretz Israel.

Some posters are having a hard times coming to terms with the fact that the water is divided according to a bilateral agreement signed by the Palestinians. The water is not pumped from "wells and rivers" (what rivers?) inside Palestine but from a variety of sources - some in the mountain aquifer (which will not be solely Palestinian anyway) and some originating from within Israel (as a measure to reduce over production and salinization of the mountain aquifer).

And there goes the nonsense trade mark line you bring up on every other post.

Your post is an attempt to whitewash an obvious fact... Israel is controlling water sources on Palestinian land and rationing them to Palestinians living on Israeli occupied territory.

Eretz Israel is a "...nonsense trade mark..." ?

Tell that to a Zionist.

Whitewash how?

I am not denying Israel controls most of the water reserves and resources. I am not denying that the amounts allocated to each side are not fair. I simply point out that this is being carried out under an agreement to which the Palestinian are party. If anything, it is continuously ignoring this bothersome fact that can be said to be whitewash.

As pointed out many a time (and no doubt leading to another inane off topic "discussion") - Zionism is not a monolithic ideological construct, and not all Zionists carry it to the extremes you relate.

Morch · June 18, 2016

Israel sucks.

They go out of their way to cause trouble ,

and then when they get a little payback, they scream that they are being persecuted.

They are cocky and act tough as long as they know the U.S will finance and support them.

Israel has been an "independent" country for about 60 years now.

It is time they were truly independent and learned how to conduct themselves in a manor that does not put their existence in jeopardy with out a big brother to stick up for them.

Their attitude is a huge reason there can be no peace in the middle east, and that puts the safety of the entire world at risk.

They are the spoiled brats and bullies of the world and they need to grow up.

It's past time the USA let Israel either sink or swim on their own

A bunch of generalizations, nothing really on topic. Why am I not surprised?

Morch · June 18, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?
The burst pipe you refer to disrupted supplies to a mere 5 villages: Marda, Biddya, Jammain, Salfit and Tapuach.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-cuts-water-supplies-west-bank-ramadan-160614205022059.html

If it has been repaired, will it all be hunk dory again with occupied Palestinians now able to refill ther swimming pools just like their nearby neighbors in the illegal Zionist colony?

The OP article has certainly opened up a hornet's nest of the further insidious nastiness and greed of Israel's illegal occupation.

Under the Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory, it has a duty of care towards the people it occupies, including public health and non destruction of property [incl wells and irrigation systems]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

If Israel does not wish to cop so much flak for its occupation...easy...stop building further illegal colonies on stolen land and end the occupation.

Hornets nest? Hardly! Indeed aside from Al-Jazeera and a small smattering of leftist newspapers in the west nobody is getting worked up, aside from some of our esteemed members that is. The world is moving on rapidly. There's Brexit, the migrant crisis, US presidential race, hostile relations with Russia and China. Not to mention ISIS. This is but a small side show within a side show.

Israel is now allied with many Arab states, the world has moved on, so too will the Palestinians one day leaving their 'supporters' left in search of a new victim to demonize Israel with.

Sounds fair enough to me. Israel taking the vast majority of water from Palestinian water sources and then depriving the Palestinians of water (forcing them to buy over-priced water from other greedy Palestinians) is a great war tactic.

I'm 'joking' obviously - as its appalling that anyone would condone homes being able to water their gardens/fill swimming pools etc, whilst also blocking access to water to others.

But not a shred of criticism directed at the PA for not making an effort to curb or regulate the activities of these "other greedy Palestinians".

dick dasterdly · June 18, 2016

Israel has long rationed water to Palestinians. This is water pumped from wells and rivers inside Palestine. But Israel has seized control of all the water and doles it out one drop at a time.

From the very first, the policy of the Israeli government has been to make conditions of life intolerable for Palestinians so they will leave and make way for Israeli settlers.

It is all part of realizing the Zionist dream of Eretz Israel.

Some posters are having a hard times coming to terms with the fact that the water is divided according to a bilateral agreement signed by the Palestinians. The water is not pumped from "wells and rivers" (what rivers?) inside Palestine but from a variety of sources - some in the mountain aquifer (which will not be solely Palestinian anyway) and some originating from within Israel (as a measure to reduce over production and salinization of the mountain aquifer).

And there goes the nonsense trade mark line you bring up on every other post.

Your post is an attempt to whitewash an obvious fact... Israel is controlling water sources on Palestinian land and rationing them to Palestinians living on Israeli occupied territory.

Eretz Israel is a "...nonsense trade mark..." ?

Tell that to a Zionist.

Whitewash how?

I am not denying Israel controls most of the water reserves and resources. I am not denying that the amounts allocated to each side are not fair. I simply point out that this is being carried out under an agreement to which the Palestinian are party. If anything, it is continuously ignoring this bothersome fact that can be said to be whitewash.

As pointed out many a time (and no doubt leading to another inane off topic "discussion") - Zionism is not a monolithic ideological construct, and not all Zionists carry it to the extremes you relate.

So campaign to make the water distribution equitable - rather than campaigning that it was something signed up to a LONG time ago and therefore is OK.

Morch · June 18, 2016

You can badmouth, bold your words, and put more exclamation marks, to your little heart's content. It would still not make your case.
Sending other poster to search Google is rude, and simply means you cannot provide proper support.

To try and make this clearer - the price a Palestinian may or may not pay to another Palestinian delivering water in a tanker, is not the price Israel charges from the Palestinians for the same water. It is not even the price set by the Palestinian Water Authority. Basically, these are private operators, many of them unregulated (by Palestinian authorities), who thrive at the expense of their fellow Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority does very little to counter water theft (by Palestinians) from its own infrastructure, does very little to regulate or subsidize such private operators, and fails miserably when it comes to collecting revenues from Palestinian consumers.

You can talk what you want but the fact is: "Israel cut almost every year the water for the at most very poor palestinians but give very cheap water (2.6 Shakel) to the Israelian settlers for grow up !!!" Source: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YTh3O2CquvsJ:www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-1.622913+&cd=1&hl=en

THIS show me that palestinians are only low class humans for Israelis. Otherwise they would be treated the same.

The palestinians must pay 7.676 Shakels for the m³. And don't tell me the settlers too. They got the aggriculture tariff for growers for just 2.6 Shakels and use it 100% for their households too. http://www.water.gov.il/Hebrew/Rates/Pages/Rates.aspx

But that you ride so extrem on my claim and not on the bad behavior from Israel to cut other humans from the access of water show me too what human are you be!!!

Your statement that the palestinians who provide the water tanks charge the higher prices is even misleading, given te fact that these trucks are only needed because Israel blocks the waterpipes.

But I still believe not all Israelis are bad.

The first "fact" quoted does not appear in the link provided.

The second "fact" quoted does not appear in the link provided.

My statement is not misleading, the Palestinian Authority could regulate private Palestinian operators. It does not invest that much of an effort on that front. What Palestinians are charged by other Palestinians is not under Israel's authority. With regard to pricing, Israel is responsible for the amount charged of the PWA and Palestinian municipalities.

And it high time you stop with the unnecessary personal remarks, which do not lend your arguments any validity.

JingerBen · June 18, 2016

Israel sucks.

They go out of their way to cause trouble ,

and then when they get a little payback, they scream that they are being persecuted.

They are cocky and act tough as long as they know the U.S will finance and support them.

Israel has been an "independent" country for about 60 years now.

It is time they were truly independent and learned how to conduct themselves in a manor that does not put their existence in jeopardy with out a big brother to stick up for them.

Their attitude is a huge reason there can be no peace in the middle east, and that puts the safety of the entire world at risk.

They are the spoiled brats and bullies of the world and they need to grow up.

It's past time the USA let Israel either sink or swim on their own

A bunch of generalizations, nothing really on topic. Why am I not surprised?

Lame response.

You've gone from posts of mind-boggling verbosity to silly one-liners.

You are not surprised because it is the obvious truth.

Edited June 18, 2016 by JingerBen

Morch · June 18, 2016

Whitewash how?

I am not denying Israel controls most of the water reserves and resources. I am not denying that the amounts allocated to each side are not fair. I simply point out that this is being carried out under an agreement to which the Palestinian are party. If anything, it is continuously ignoring this bothersome fact that can be said to be whitewash.

As pointed out many a time (and no doubt leading to another inane off topic "discussion") - Zionism is not a monolithic ideological construct, and not all Zionists carry it to the extremes you relate.

So campaign to make the water distribution equitable - rather than campaigning that it was something signed up to a LONG time ago and therefore is OK.

At this point in my life, I do not campaign for anything. My posts are more with bringing some balance to the usual misconceptions and nonsense posted on these topics. Kindly avoid twisting my words, nowhere did I post that the current situation is "OK".

As pointed out earlier on this topic, the Palestinian Authority itself does not actively promote a concrete proposition aimed to amending the agreement regulating water issues. The issue is usually being lumped together, and presented in general terms whenever something like the OP comes up. The reason for this, in my opinion, is related to the general international diplomatic strategy taken by Abbas. This approach usually avoids concrete tackling of specific issues separately, in favor of making slower overall advances. It may or may not be a wise approach, but it does little to alleviate hardship for the populace (but with some PR bonuses generated). The water issue, by itself, is one of the areas in which the Palestinian could possibly achieve significant concessions from Israel, but the drawback (from the above mentioned strategy) could be that it will be construed as a form of acceptance (or "normalization") with regard to the occupation.

Morch · June 18, 2016

Lame response.

You've gone from posts of mind-boggling verbosity to silly one-liners.

You are not surprised because it is the obvious truth.

Troll away....Doesn't seem you have anything of substance to add to the topic otherwise.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Morch

dexterm · June 18, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?

The burst pipe you refer to disrupted supplies to a mere 5 villages: Marda, Biddya, Jammain, Salfit and Tapuach.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-cuts-water-supplies-west-bank-ramadan-160614205022059.html

If it has been repaired, will it all be hunk dory again with occupied Palestinians now able to refill ther swimming pools just like their nearby neighbors in the illegal Zionist colony?

The OP article has certainly opened up a hornet's nest of the further insidious nastiness and greed of Israel's illegal occupation.

Under the Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory, it has a duty of care towards the people it occupies, including public health and non destruction of property [incl wells and irrigation systems]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

If Israel does not wish to cop so much flak for its occupation...easy...stop building further illegal colonies on stolen land and end the occupation.

The 5 "mere villages" translate to a "mere" few tens of thousands residents, all in the Salfit Governate. Oh, and Tapuach (more correctly Kfar Tapuach) is an illegal Israeli settlement in the area.

The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water. It is a general provision. It also specifies conditions under which these provisions may be breached. Further, and to some posters chagrin, the bilateral agreements signed between the Palestinians and Israel usually take precedence over multilateral treaties.

>>The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water.

You're obfuscating as usual. The Geneva convention does not mention the price of sliced bread either! But it does mention the responsibility of the Occupying Power to maintain health and sanitary conditions.

Inadequate water supply leads to poor hygiene, disease, bad health, and death which is contrary to Israel's duty of care as an Occupying Power

"Art 49 The Occupying Power shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition"

Nor does the Geneva Convention allow Israel to destroy Palestinian wells and irrigation systems, when they try to improve the water supply conditions themselves without having to rely on Israel.

"Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

You keep harping on about the Oslo Accords when it suits your agenda, ..yes an unfair bilateral agreement signed 23 years ago by the Palestinians in good faith. A temporary deal supposed to last only 5 years during which time final status issues such as water were supposed to be agreed upon.

Just because a dishonest salesman sells a trusting person a lemon does not make it right.

Edited June 18, 2016 by dexterm

Morch · June 18, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?

The burst pipe you refer to disrupted supplies to a mere 5 villages: Marda, Biddya, Jammain, Salfit and Tapuach.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-cuts-water-supplies-west-bank-ramadan-160614205022059.html

If it has been repaired, will it all be hunk dory again with occupied Palestinians now able to refill ther swimming pools just like their nearby neighbors in the illegal Zionist colony?

The OP article has certainly opened up a hornet's nest of the further insidious nastiness and greed of Israel's illegal occupation.

Under the Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory, it has a duty of care towards the people it occupies, including public health and non destruction of property [incl wells and irrigation systems]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

If Israel does not wish to cop so much flak for its occupation...easy...stop building further illegal colonies on stolen land and end the occupation.

The 5 "mere villages" translate to a "mere" few tens of thousands residents, all in the Salfit Governate. Oh, and Tapuach (more correctly Kfar Tapuach) is an illegal Israeli settlement in the area.

The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water. It is a general provision. It also specifies conditions under which these provisions may be breached. Further, and to some posters chagrin, the bilateral agreements signed between the Palestinians and Israel usually take precedence over multilateral treaties.

>>The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water.

You're obfuscating as usual. The Geneva convention does not mention the price of sliced bread either! But it does mention the responsibility of the Occupying Power to maintain health and sanitary conditions.

Inadequate water supply leads to poor hygiene, disease, bad health, and death which is contrary to Israel's duty of care as an Occupying Power

"Art 49 The Occupying Power shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition"

Nor does the Geneva Convention allow Israel to destroy Palestinian wells and irrigation systems, when they try to improve the water supply conditions themselves without having to rely on Israel.

"Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

You keep harping on about the Oslo Accords when it suits your agenda, ..yes an unfair bilateral agreement signed 23 years ago by the Palestinians in good faith. A temporary deal supposed to last only 5 years during which time final status issues such as water were supposed to be agreed upon.

Just because a dishonest salesman sells a trusting person a lemon does not make it right.

As pointed out before, and quoted again by yourself, there are conditions under which the occupying force may breach provisions - specified in the Geneva Convention Treaty. One can certainly argue that Israel uses the military/security needs all too often, and even in cases where they do not apply - but the fact remains that these conditions are specified.

I do no harp on the Oslo Accords, they (and follow-up/related agreements) are simply the only reference available when discussing relationship between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, it is yourself which keep on harping about them being obsolete and unfair, while ignoring the fact that they were signed by the Palestinians and that shortcomings on both sides led to a final agreement not materializing. Spare us the "good faith" nonsense, as you cannot back it up with anything but more nonsense. The Oslo Accords were not "sold" to the Palestinians, the inane analogy and slur non-withstanding.

You, and other posters may note (but doubt you will), that the PA does not wish to officially renege on the Oslo Accords. The reason is quite simple really, an imperfect agreement is better than none. Not something that matters for keyboard warriors focused on bashing, as they do not need to face the consequences of a no-agreement reality.

DeaconJohn · June 18, 2016

>>The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water.

You're obfuscating as usual. The Geneva convention does not mention the price of sliced bread either! But it does mention the responsibility of the Occupying Power to maintain health and sanitary conditions.

Inadequate water supply leads to poor hygiene, disease, bad health, and death which is contrary to Israel's duty of care as an Occupying Power

"Art 49 The Occupying Power shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition"

Nor does the Geneva Convention allow Israel to destroy Palestinian wells and irrigation systems, when they try to improve the water supply conditions themselves without having to rely on Israel.

"Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

You keep harping on about the Oslo Accords when it suits your agenda, ..yes an unfair bilateral agreement signed 23 years ago by the Palestinians in good faith. A temporary deal supposed to last only 5 years during which time final status issues such as water were supposed to be agreed upon.

Just because a dishonest salesman sells a trusting person a lemon does not make it right.

As pointed out before, and quoted again by yourself, there are conditions under which the occupying force may breach provisions - specified in the Geneva Convention Treaty. One can certainly argue that Israel uses the military/security needs all too often, and even in cases where they do not apply - but the fact remains that these conditions are specified.

I do no harp on the Oslo Accords, they (and follow-up/related agreements) are simply the only reference available when discussing relationship between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, it is yourself which keep on harping about them being obsolete and unfair, while ignoring the fact that they were signed by the Palestinians and that shortcomings on both sides led to a final agreement not materializing. Spare us the "good faith" nonsense, as you cannot back it up with anything but more nonsense. The Oslo Accords were not "sold" to the Palestinians, the inane analogy and slur non-withstanding.

You, and other posters may note (but doubt you will), that the PA does not wish to officially renege on the Oslo Accords. The reason is quite simple really, an imperfect agreement is better than none. Not something that matters for keyboard warriors focused on bashing, as they do not need to face the consequences of a no-agreement reality.

The consequences of a no-agreement reality would ultimately be a disaster for Israel.

A one-state solution with Israelis as a despised minority would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

The only hope is that moderate Israelis will - sooner rather than later - defeat the radical Zionist leadership and live within their 1967 borders. The alternative is perpetual war and resistance from the people whom they are persecuting.

dexterm · June 18, 2016

@Morch

Your usual fence sitting or deliberate obfuscation. You know that the repeated destruction of village wells and irrigation infrastructure is not an "imperative military necessity" as the only exceptions allowed under The Geneva Convention, but you acquiesce in the IDF hiding behind any technical pretext, however immoral or unjust.

It's only a military imperative if one's goal is to ethnically cleanse by stealth...make life so uncomfortable by restricting water supply and farming that an entire Palestinian village will leave, Israel then declares it abandoned and thus now state land. At which point building and irrigation permits galore suddenly appear out of the wood work for the new Zionist colony.

If you believe something is wrong, fight for what is right. Join Peace Now.

dexterm · June 18, 2016

Still nobody care to comment on the fact that water shortages were due to a burst water main?

So you try to whitewash the whole OP saying it was nothing more than a burst water pipe in order to downplay the importance of Israeli miserly and discriminatory control of 2.5 million Palestinians' water supply. Nice try, no cigar. It's the usual Israeli propaganda tactic: find one small instance and generalize and propagandize from there. Upon investigation it turns out the red herring burst water pipe affects 25,000 Palestinians in 4 villages and one illegal Zionist colony, the latter of which I dont give a hoot about. They can get in their cars and go back where they belong behind the 67 lines into Israel.

In addition to the regular daily suffering under Israeli occupation it's a further hardship for sure for the 25,000 Palestinian villagers affected (1% of the West Bank Palestinian population...0.55% if you include Gazans), but it does not lessen the impact of, justify, or obviate Israel's stranglehold on water to the vast majority of Palestinians which was the central issue of the OP.

Morch · June 19, 2016

@Morch

Your usual fence sitting or deliberate obfuscation. You know that the repeated destruction of village wells and irrigation infrastructure is not an "imperative military necessity" as the only exceptions allowed under The Geneva Convention, but you acquiesce in the IDF hiding behind any technical pretext, however immoral or unjust.

It's only a military imperative if one's goal is to ethnically cleanse by stealth...make life so uncomfortable by restricting water supply and farming that an entire Palestinian village will leave, Israel then declares it abandoned and thus now state land. At which point building and irrigation permits galore suddenly appear out of the wood work for the new Zionist colony.

If you believe something is wrong, fight for what is right. Join Peace Now.

More ad hominem arguments when nothing else to offer. The OP is not about me, my political affiliations or my membership in and support of various advocacy groups.

The tired "fence sitting" is simply an expression of playground mentality. Them vs. US. Good vs. Bad. Black White. Wrong Right. Most people grow up at some point and realize that the world is somewhat more complex than that, others spew nonsense on internet forums. There is no obligation to choose sides, there is no obligation to accept the complete righteousness or evil of either side, there is no obligation to fully subscribe to either side's agenda and narrative.

Once again, and politely, cease ascribing me views I do not hold, or state what I know. If these topics were about knowledge, these topics would be way shorter and with very few participants. Also, may wish to curb twisting of my words and meaning, this too gets old.

I did not express any support for the Israeli occupation, or to all of the various justifications used by Israel with regard to the water issues vs. the Palestinians. At the same time (and I'm aware this is hard to comprehend for some) it does not imply that the Palestinians do not bear a responsibility for the way things are.

As a side note to your silly ad-hominem rant - In general, Peace Now does not share your inflammatory rhetoric, nor your extreme views.

oxo1947 · June 19, 2016

could always move them to the North Pole.

See how they cope with Ramadan where there's six months between sunrise and sunset................................

cdnvic · June 19, 2016

Enough of the attacks on each other. If you aren't capable of debating without personal attacks then find another hobby.

Morch · June 19, 2016

>>The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water.

You're obfuscating as usual. The Geneva convention does not mention the price of sliced bread either! But it does mention the responsibility of the Occupying Power to maintain health and sanitary conditions.

Inadequate water supply leads to poor hygiene, disease, bad health, and death which is contrary to Israel's duty of care as an Occupying Power

"Art 49 The Occupying Power shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition"

Nor does the Geneva Convention allow Israel to destroy Palestinian wells and irrigation systems, when they try to improve the water supply conditions themselves without having to rely on Israel.

"Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

You keep harping on about the Oslo Accords when it suits your agenda, ..yes an unfair bilateral agreement signed 23 years ago by the Palestinians in good faith. A temporary deal supposed to last only 5 years during which time final status issues such as water were supposed to be agreed upon.

Just because a dishonest salesman sells a trusting person a lemon does not make it right.

As pointed out before, and quoted again by yourself, there are conditions under which the occupying force may breach provisions - specified in the Geneva Convention Treaty. One can certainly argue that Israel uses the military/security needs all too often, and even in cases where they do not apply - but the fact remains that these conditions are specified.

I do no harp on the Oslo Accords, they (and follow-up/related agreements) are simply the only reference available when discussing relationship between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, it is yourself which keep on harping about them being obsolete and unfair, while ignoring the fact that they were signed by the Palestinians and that shortcomings on both sides led to a final agreement not materializing. Spare us the "good faith" nonsense, as you cannot back it up with anything but more nonsense. The Oslo Accords were not "sold" to the Palestinians, the inane analogy and slur non-withstanding.

You, and other posters may note (but doubt you will), that the PA does not wish to officially renege on the Oslo Accords. The reason is quite simple really, an imperfect agreement is better than none. Not something that matters for keyboard warriors focused on bashing, as they do not need to face the consequences of a no-agreement reality.

The consequences of a no-agreement reality would ultimately be a disaster for Israel.

A one-state solution with Israelis as a despised minority would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

The only hope is that moderate Israelis will - sooner rather than later - defeat the radical Zionist leadership and live within their 1967 borders. The alternative is perpetual war and resistance from the people whom they are persecuting.

Having no agreement rather than an having imperfect one will worsen the situation for all involved. In actual, rather than PR, terms, it will bear more harshly on the Palestinian populace. The possible events you refer to will take a long while to materialize, during which the Palestinians will be brought under further oppression. Such views are more common with those not having to sacrifice anything for the "cause". Further, having no agreement will basically make the Palestinian Authority redundant, and deal a blow to whatever relatively moderate forces existing on the Palestinians side.

dexterm · June 20, 2016

A very interesting article on the OP, well worth a disturbing read. Covers many of the points raised in this forum discussion.

Israel: Water as a tool to dominate Palestinians

Israel deliberately denies Palestinians control over their water sources and sets the ground for water domination.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-water-tool-dominate-palestinians-160619062531348.html

Morch · June 20, 2016

A very interesting article on the OP, well worth a disturbing read. Covers many of the points raised in this forum discussion.

Israel: Water as a tool to dominate Palestinians

Israel deliberately denies Palestinians control over their water sources and sets the ground for water domination.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-water-tool-dominate-palestinians-160619062531348.html

Basically a rehash of posts on this topic This includes the jumping over hurdles by such means as ignoring agreements were signed by the Palestinians, obligations taken and not upheld by the Palestinians, Palestinians refusal at cooperation, and the usual mixture where out of context facts service an agenda.

Speaking of agenda (even disregarding the venue), from the linked "article" - "Camilla Corradin is advocating for Palestinian water rights with the EWASH NGO's coalition" (https://ps.linkedin.com/in/camillacorradin). As mentioned previously, EWASH was against the construction of a desalinization project in the Gaza Strip, citing potential damaging political consequences to the Palestinian cause.

dick dasterdly · June 20, 2016

>>The bit of the Geneva Convention quoted does not directly mention irrigation systems, wells or even water.

You're obfuscating as usual. The Geneva convention does not mention the price of sliced bread either! But it does mention the responsibility of the Occupying Power to maintain health and sanitary conditions.

Inadequate water supply leads to poor hygiene, disease, bad health, and death which is contrary to Israel's duty of care as an Occupying Power

"Art 49 The Occupying Power shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition"

Nor does the Geneva Convention allow Israel to destroy Palestinian wells and irrigation systems, when they try to improve the water supply conditions themselves without having to rely on Israel.

"Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

You keep harping on about the Oslo Accords when it suits your agenda, ..yes an unfair bilateral agreement signed 23 years ago by the Palestinians in good faith. A temporary deal supposed to last only 5 years during which time final status issues such as water were supposed to be agreed upon.

Just because a dishonest salesman sells a trusting person a lemon does not make it right.

As pointed out before, and quoted again by yourself, there are conditions under which the occupying force may breach provisions - specified in the Geneva Convention Treaty. One can certainly argue that Israel uses the military/security needs all too often, and even in cases where they do not apply - but the fact remains that these conditions are specified.

I do no harp on the Oslo Accords, they (and follow-up/related agreements) are simply the only reference available when discussing relationship between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, it is yourself which keep on harping about them being obsolete and unfair, while ignoring the fact that they were signed by the Palestinians and that shortcomings on both sides led to a final agreement not materializing. Spare us the "good faith" nonsense, as you cannot back it up with anything but more nonsense. The Oslo Accords were not "sold" to the Palestinians, the inane analogy and slur non-withstanding.

You, and other posters may note (but doubt you will), that the PA does not wish to officially renege on the Oslo Accords. The reason is quite simple really, an imperfect agreement is better than none. Not something that matters for keyboard warriors focused on bashing, as they do not need to face the consequences of a no-agreement reality.

The consequences of a no-agreement reality would ultimately be a disaster for Israel.

A one-state solution with Israelis as a despised minority would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

The only hope is that moderate Israelis will - sooner rather than later - defeat the radical Zionist leadership and live within their 1967 borders. The alternative is perpetual war and resistance from the people whom they are persecuting.

Having no agreement rather than an having imperfect one will worsen the situation for all involved. In actual, rather than PR, terms, it will bear more harshly on the Palestinian populace. The possible events you refer to will take a long while to materialize, during which the Palestinians will be brought under further oppression. Such views are more common with those not having to sacrifice anything for the "cause". Further, having no agreement will basically make the Palestinian Authority redundant, and deal a blow to whatever relatively moderate forces existing on the Palestinians side.

Thanks, I'd missed the post from DeaconJohn.

Its an appalling situation when an absolute necessity (water) is used as a weapon.

Morch · June 20, 2016

Thanks, I'd missed the post from DeaconJohn.

Its an appalling situation when an absolute necessity (water) is used as a weapon.

It is not used as a weapon. Disagreements over water resources are not unique to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Morch

dexterm · June 20, 2016

A very interesting article on the OP, well worth a disturbing read. Covers many of the points raised in this forum discussion.

Israel: Water as a tool to dominate Palestinians

Israel deliberately denies Palestinians control over their water sources and sets the ground for water domination.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-water-tool-dominate-palestinians-160619062531348.html

Basically a rehash of posts on this topic This includes the jumping over hurdles by such means as ignoring agreements were signed by the Palestinians, obligations taken and not upheld by the Palestinians, Palestinians refusal at cooperation, and the usual mixture where out of context facts service an agenda.

Speaking of agenda (even disregarding the venue), from the linked "article" - "Camilla Corradin is advocating for Palestinian water rights with the EWASH NGO's coalition" (https://ps.linkedin.com/in/camillacorradin). As mentioned previously, EWASH was against the construction of a desalinization project in the Gaza Strip, citing potential damaging political consequences to the Palestinian cause.

I suppose when you can see the prospect of a real peace treaty, with issues such as water to be settled within 5 years anyway as you were led to believe, it would seem petty to refuse to join the Oslo peace process over water supplies. And Israel would only have dragged out its old chestnut about Palestinians failing to seize a chance of peace again.. Little did the Palestinians realize they would be in even a worse position 23 years later in 2016.

A desalination plant would only have been more infrastructure for Israel to destroy on some pretext or other, just as they did the sewage treatment plants and water wells.

Morch · June 20, 2016

I suppose when you can see the prospect of a real peace treaty, with issues such as water to be settled within 5 years anyway as you were led to believe, it would seem petty to refuse to join the Oslo peace process over water supplies. And Israel would only have dragged out its old chestnut about Palestinians failing to seize a chance of peace again.. Little did the Palestinians realize they would be in even a worse position 23 years later in 2016.

A desalination plant would only have been more infrastructure for Israel to destroy on some pretext or other, just as they did the sewage treatment plants and water wells.

The Palestinians were not naive, neither trusting. Trying to market Arafat, who led the Palestinians for decades as a bumbling clueless buffoon ain't gonna cut it. Same goes for made up stories about how eager the Palestinians were, and assuming they had blind good faith in the agreement. There were failure on the part of both sides which led to the current situation, not a unilateral issue as you'd have posters believe. As for old chestnuts, how's about actually coming up with a concrete time, prior to the Oslo Accords, which saw the Palestinians actually reaching out for peace?

The desalinization plant in question is being built despite EWASH's political objections, and with Israel's support (including, if I remember correctly, training of future staff). The nonsense reasoning in your post was never brought up. To follow this "logic", there can be no motivation to develop any Palestinian water infrastructure whatsoever, as it will be "destroyed by Israel". Much better to let the population wallow in misery, which can be used for PR purposes.

Steely Dan · June 20, 2016

In case our resident frothers have brought it up yet there was no Rabbinic decree to poison Palestinian water supplies. This just goes to show how the Israel demonization brigade sink ever lower. Meanwhile the EU funds organizations committing the blood libel.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-moderate-plo-started-blood-libel-of.html

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