Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs

[Carson2311]

This is the same guy who introduced the 300 meter no alcohol zone near to schools / universities law, he also commented at the time that he would rather the no alcohol zone be 500 meters instead of 300.

They then backtracked and said 'near schools' instead of some arbitrary number of meters and since then pretty much nothing has been heard about the whole business at all.

In my neighbourhood it affected a mom and pops shop right next to a school, but about 5 doors down it's business as usual.

That is if you have the right figures. The affected shop might not have as much problem as you think. Why would people drink in front of schools?

It´s irresponsible and clerly showing that you are not a grown up. That is something that the shopowner should have in mind sooner or later will happen.

When opening a shop is planning that is everything. After that comes location.

I am sura that the mom and pop will have most of the children and their parents as customers and make their money that way. The other shops have a location right for alcohol, and they make their living that way.

It´s all quite ok and clear to me, and probably to you too when the clouds clear and you see the blue horizon again.

[allan michaud]

Having briefly had a total yaba head for a neighbor I think this is insane. Legalising pot is one thing but this stuff is evil.

[jamesbrock]

It actually sounds like a good idea. Most countries that have tried it, have had success. In Portugal they legalized all drugs. If you are caught with an ounce of heroin in your pocket, the police let you go. And you know what happened? The rates of drug abuse dropped. There were no more people being put into prison for drug offenses, so the prison budget dropped too.

I believe all drugs should be legalized. All drugs. You just take away all of the allure that comes with doing something illegal. In the US, a fortune is being spent on locking up people for smoking pot, and the "war on drugs" has failed miserably. How do you dismantle the Mexican and Colombian cartels overnight? Legalize drugs.

One small, but important, correction: Portugal decriminalised drug use and low-level possession, they did not legalise it.

Drug use and possession no longer trigger criminal sanctions; however, they remain illegal. A person found in possession of personal-use amounts of any drug in Portugal is no longer arrested, but rather ordered to appear before a local “dissuasion commission” – comprised of one official from the legal arena and two from the health or social service arenas – who determine whether and to what extent the person is addicted to drugs. The commission can refer that person to a voluntary treatment program, pay a fine or impose other administrative sanctions.

“We came to the conclusion that the criminal system was not best suited to deal with this situation... The best option should be referring them to treatment... We do not force or coerce anyone. If they are willing to go by themselves, it's because they actually want to, so the success rate is really high... We can surely say that decriminalization does not increase drug usage, and that decriminalization does not mean legalizing... It's still illegal to use drugs in Portugal — it's just not considered a crime. It's possible to deal with drug users outside the criminal system.” – Nuno Capaz, Lisbon Dissuasion Commission, 2013.

Further, drug trafficking offenses remain illegal and are still processed through the criminal justice system.

[retarius]

Very sensible out of the box thinking. Yaba is for the most part innocuous. It is routinely used in the military to help troops stay awake. The penalties for using it are outrageous, it's almost as bad as murder in terms of sentencing. By all means go after the dealers and the manufacturers, but put it on sale on pharmacies for100 baht a pill, and make a nice profit/tax on it.

[dieseldave1951]

like the rest of his hair brain ideas hot air and then dissipates, How about enforcing the rule of law stiff and i mean stiff sentences ( not the usual pay offs that usually happen ) and more police out at nights after 12 midnight

catching these criminals, ( thats if they can stay awake long enough,)

nobody forces these people to take these drugs,they take it for fun, and then get hooked, no sympathy from me

Logic and (un)common sense from someone in Thai officialdom?

I'm staggered, and am very interested to see how he implements this.

[allan michaud]

This is the same guy who introduced the 300 meter no alcohol zone near to schools / universities law, he also commented at the time that he would rather the no alcohol zone be 500 meters instead of 300.

They then backtracked and said 'near schools' instead of some arbitrary number of meters and since then pretty much nothing has been heard about the whole business at all.

In my neighbourhood it affected a mom and pops shop right next to a school, but about 5 doors down it's business as usual.

That is if you have the right figures. The affected shop might not have as much problem as you think. Why would people drink in front of schools?

It´s irresponsible and clerly showing that you are not a grown up. That is something that the shopowner should have in mind sooner or later will happen.

When opening a shop is planning that is everything. After that comes location.

I am sura that the mom and pop will have most of the children and their parents as customers and make their money that way. The other shops have a location right for alcohol, and they make their living that way.

It´s all quite ok and clear to me, and probably to you too when the clouds clear and you see the blue horizon again.

Blimey, those rose tinted glasses are doing a great job, where can I get a pair?

[KKr]

Drug decriminalization – alongside a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services – has been proven to significantly improve public safety and health.

Of course, I am dubious of Thailand's ability to undertake the critical element of drug decriminalization – namely, a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services.

I'll just leave these here...

• Drug Decriminalisation in Portugal: A Health-Centered Approach: http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
• Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

Nice post, did not see this before. Impressive results.

The amount of support going into the program must be staggering.

Interesting that a lot of people go into voluntary treatment programs, probably when they realise they are going down the drain.

I guess, removing the threat of going to jail helps.

Lower Medical cost, better work attendance rates, and lower number of people in jail likely to contribute to compensation of the cost.

Still, going back to the topic, would this work in Thailand?

Without the safety net as implemented in other countries, IMO, it will not work.

The thought is interesting though and deserves more attention than a knee-jerk reaction.

[Carson2311]

This is the same guy who introduced the 300 meter no alcohol zone near to schools / universities law, he also commented at the time that he would rather the no alcohol zone be 500 meters instead of 300.

They then backtracked and said 'near schools' instead of some arbitrary number of meters and since then pretty much nothing has been heard about the whole business at all.

In my neighbourhood it affected a mom and pops shop right next to a school, but about 5 doors down it's business as usual.

That is if you have the right figures. The affected shop might not have as much problem as you think. Why would people drink in front of schools?

It´s irresponsible and clerly showing that you are not a grown up. That is something that the shopowner should have in mind sooner or later will happen.

When opening a shop is planning that is everything. After that comes location.

I am sura that the mom and pop will have most of the children and their parents as customers and make their money that way. The other shops have a location right for alcohol, and they make their living that way.

It´s all quite ok and clear to me, and probably to you too when the clouds clear and you see the blue horizon again.

Blimey, those rose tinted glasses are doing a great job, where can I get a pair?

Not about the glasses. Just common sense, which by the way you seem to be lacking.

Surely it must be something that says that it´s not okey to sit drinking in front of a school. Just for that it does not mean that they can not sell alcohol.

It regards that the people buy it not can drink there.

Just for make it really simple and easy for you. In most countries you can not take your underaged children to the bar. What do you think about that?

Maby you think it´s okey for a 3 year old to run around in the bar when you are drinking? Most people I know would disagree.

However it´s exactly the samr thing.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Drug decriminalization – alongside a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services – has been proven to significantly improve public safety and health.

Of course, I am dubious of Thailand's ability to undertake the critical element of drug decriminalization – namely, a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services.

I'll just leave these here...

• Drug Decriminalisation in Portugal: A Health-Centered Approach: http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
• Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

Nice post, did not see this before. Impressive results.

The amount of support going into the program must be staggering.

Interesting that a lot of people go into voluntary treatment programs, probably when they realise they are going down the drain.

I guess, removing the threat of going to jail helps.

Lower Medical cost, better work attendance rates, and lower number of people in jail likely to contribute to compensation of the cost.

Still, going back to the topic, would this work in Thailand?

Without the safety net as implemented in other countries, IMO, it will not work.

The thought is interesting though and deserves more attention than a knee-jerk reaction.

Still, going back to the topic, would this work in Thailand?

Without the safety net as implemented in other countries, IMO, it will not work.

With the rampant corruption, police and others involved in the traffic, I highly doubt it will work,... except for the dealers...

[NickJ]

Many Thai people did not know that you can use certain drugs like codine and tramadol to get high. Before you were able to buy these otc. To let a bathtub criminal drug to be decriminalized is nonsense and would destroy the society.

I was here when yaba took this country by storm. It was cheap and people from all walks of life had there lives shatterd from it.

[luk AJ]

I just read a research report indicating that people who are or has been addicted to narcotics/drugs, also have a problem kicking other bad addictions such as smoking, drinking.....Conclusion may be that some of us are more susceptible to being addicted to any substance whereas other can easily or with little effort kick a bad habit.

Anything that are addictive and declared illegal history tells us it a bad idea, look at the US prohibition years as a good example, gangsta land. make anything legal and the plug goes out of the illegal network making a profit from it. Even restricting alcohol with high taxes and special shops for purchase made the moonshine a well known underground industry in Sweden and Finland during the 20th century, every home had their own still in the kitchen or garage.

There is only one way to deal with the drug problem, and that is to legalize it, but not just like that, there must be an extensive apparatus in place to care for addicts and rehabilitate. The root cause of addiction or becoming an addict can more easily be examined if the drugs are legal. when the CIA was experimenting with these drugs back in the days, they where legal, thank CIA for today's worldwide drug problems, as we can thank them for many other innovative thinks in the darkest recesses of society.

Legalize drugs? Probably the majority of users don't have the money to buy drugs in the first place so they have to steal. So do you also support the consequent stealing? The world is getting more fckd up by the minute..People who support legalizing drugs are probably users themselves.

Well....If you are going to make a really stupid comment on something that you obviously did not read, why not go full out and make it outright ridiculous!

Are you a alcoholic?

[z42]

I am as pro choice and pro recreational drugs as you can find. But even I feel that such a move is absolutely unacceptable. People who use this drug for occasional enjoyment should be allowed to do so imo. Criminalizing the end user is absolutely the wrong approach. Some degree of middle ground is needed here. Simply throwing down all resistance in the tackling of it while it still remains illegal, not to mention highly sought after is highly dangerous in a country as lawless as Thailand. I predict it has the potential to create a monster so big it would be impossible to tackle, let alone control.

The law that says a positive urine test counts as possession needs to be scrapped as a starter, unless that person providing the test is operating machinery or in a position of responsibility, or causing immediate danger to the public at the time of taking the test, then I really see no problem. The help should be there if the person chooses to seek it.

Although this proposed change is somewhat progressive, I don't feel its application suits the Thai context well at all.

[brownknees]

why not replace the real thing with placebos?See what happens!!

[starky]

As others have said, decriminalization and regulation have been proved to be very effective in countries like Portugal. However, for this to work you do need investment in treatment, therapy, and education. I can't see the Thai government doing that effectively, unfortunately, although I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know why the general ThaiVisa stance on drugs seems to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' - that approach has been an absolute disaster everywhere, why not try something different?

Sorry mate no dice. Got more than a few friends back in Oz whose lives and families have been ruined by ice. Sadly now most are in the nick. Problem with your theory is they do try rehab first and try and keep em out, but after they haved failed 3 or 4 times and then start jumping through peoples windows or bashing <deleted> or just wigging out, they have to be locked up for everyones sake. In your utopia how many times do you get to try rehab on those that do and also clearly dont want it?

Is ice legal in Oz, no. So how can you compare that to the statement? The argument is that in other countries legalisation has lowered the drug consumption and on top of that those who do use get medical and therapeutic attention, not simply slammed up into a jail and forgotten about, ready to reoffend. If people want to do drugs they will find a way, legal or not

Thats right most will. The point is for most people there is no such thing as recreational drug use. I think anyone that would advocate legalisng the more insidious highly addictive drugs like coke, crack, ice, yaba or any form of meth has no comprehension, knowledge, or first hand experience with any of them. So please tell me once it all becomes legal how much ice or yaba would you like your mates or family to be on? Whats the acceptable recreational legal dosage

If my mates or family wish to take ice, more fool them. To be honest if they want to do it they will anyway, simply because it is legal doesn't mean to say that they will start to contemplate taking it. They have a brain, if they are inclined that way they will anyway. If it is legal however, there will be less criminality associated with it; by that I mean there will be less risk going to purchase it and getting caught up in shady transactions. I myself have tried ice 2 times back in the day and for me it was kind of 'meh' - We all do stupid things in life and I would hate to see a family member banged up on prison getting butt raped over a drug addiction or curiosity. They need education / counselling / therapy, not butt rape

Mate not trying to argue with you about it and can also appreciate the logic you are applying. Everyone hopes their friends and family are smart enough. Sadly some just arent or get caught up in their addiction. If you had read my post and had an understanding you would know very few (if any) people go to gaol ( and get "butt &lt;deleted&gt;") over a curiosity or first pinch. Problem with ice is it is so hard to treat/ rehab addicts because it is such a heavy drug. In a lot of cases education, therapy just doesnt work. Which logically i assume would have to instigate the return of mental institutions which as you would also understand were largely frowned upon as in most cases they were worse than prison. Also the criminality is never fully removed as most countries that have decriminalised to one extent or another still have many penalties for drug use except for possession of miniscule amounts. Pot may be a different animal and methadone has proved effective for many heroin users I just cant see many state sponsored programs that would endorse the personal use of methamphetamines. We just have to disagree I guess. Cheers.

[Chris Lawrence]

Need more drug programs, look at methadone, needle exchanges. These are methods that work in other countries. Ronnie's wife had the famous just say no campaign, that changed nothing. Maybe some of the high and mighty are being affected by this yaba epidemic, hence the change in opinion.

[hgma]

A drug decriminalizing debate would be very welcome, but only in ASEAN framework the outcome will work.

As regulation on rehabilitation centers would be recommended, as we continue the way these rehabs work, Dr Phil will announce farting an addiction.

The whole rehab industry needs an overhaul in my opinion, globally.

[hyperdimension]

It's refreshing to hear something different from the authorities than the usual "we're going to get tough on drugs!" mantra, because the old ways have not worked, for decades.

Drugs are everywhere. e.g. in coffee, chocolate, cola soft drinks. Do your children consume any of these? If so, and it's primarily for pleasure (which is usually the case as they are not staple food products), then your children are recreational drug users, and you are a recreational drug supplier to your children.

Do you drink wine or beer because you enjoy it? If so, then you are a recreational drug user too.

If you said yes to any of the above, it's OK. Recreational drug usage should not be a stigma. Such stigma should be eradicated from mainstream society. It is hypocritical of mainstream society to accept consumption of ethanol but not of other less harmful recreational drugs like cannabis and MDMA.

The basis of our views on drugs should be science and statistics. The minister is correct when he said that "methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor".

A lot of the negative views of drug usage were borne from decades of misinformation / propaganda, tied with drug laws being borne from racism. Back then there was no internet, so the masses didn't know any better and couldn't find real information even if they wanted to. These days there is plenty of good factual information that can be found if people spent some time to look. I have spent plenty of time researching the topic, reading widely and watching many documentaries. This has equipped me with a good understanding of the big picture. It is a fascinating and enormous topic that spans many different fields, including medicine and health; psychiatry and psychology; entertainment, recreation and pleasure; philosophy, spirituality and religion; culture and societies; creativity and art; politics and power; mass media and propaganda; law, justice and punishment; business and economics. I can provide plenty of links, as I have done in the past in other threads. It seems however that most, including those in positions of authority and law enforcement, choose not to spend the time to update their knowledge about drugs, and still retain the obsolete and narrow-minded views of old. The real scientific facts need be spread to the masses with a "we were wrong" admission.

If methamphetamine consumption causes as much trouble as paranoid people think it does, we'd be seeing news stories every day of yaba-fuelled robberies or accidents on the roads. But we don't, because most recreational drug consumption is without problem, just as most ethanol or nicotine consumption is without problem.

[pistachios]

It's kind of weird to see half of the thread's participants saying it's the stupidest idea they have ever heard (probably while drinking their 5th pint of beer of the day btw) while they other agree that it makes sense.

Today, even though the penalties are extremely harsh, yaba is available everywhere. I bet I could find some in less than 10 minutes after this post, even though I don't know anybody who uses or sells it. Every Thai who wants to use Yaba is already using it. It's clearly not working. Yes this drug is very harmful for the society but filling prisons with users is not beneficial to anyone.

Edited June 17, 2016 by pistachios

[Carson2311]

It's refreshing to hear something different from the authorities than the usual "we're going to get tough on drugs!" mantra, because the old ways have not worked, for decades.

Drugs are everywhere. e.g. in coffee, chocolate, cola soft drinks. Do your children consume any of these? If so, and it's primarily for pleasure (which is usually the case as they are not staple food products), then your children are recreational drug users, and you are a recreational drug supplier to your children.

Do you drink wine or beer because you enjoy it? If so, then you are a recreational drug user too.

If you said yes to any of the above, it's OK. Recreational drug usage should not be a stigma. Such stigma should be eradicated from mainstream society. It is hypocritical of mainstream society to accept consumption of ethanol but not of other less harmful recreational drugs like cannabis and MDMA.

The basis of our views on drugs should be science and statistics. The minister is correct when he said that "methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor".

A lot of the negative views of drug usage were borne from decades of misinformation / propaganda, tied with drug laws being borne from racism. Back then there was no internet, so the masses didn't know any better and couldn't find real information even if they wanted to. These days there is plenty of good factual information that can be found if people spent some time to look. I have spent plenty of time researching the topic, reading widely and watching many documentaries. This has equipped me with a good understanding of the big picture. It is a fascinating and enormous topic that spans many different fields, including medicine and health; psychiatry and psychology; entertainment, recreation and pleasure; philosophy, spirituality and religion; culture and societies; creativity and art; politics and power; mass media and propaganda; law, justice and punishment; business and economics. I can provide plenty of links, as I have done in the past in other threads. It seems however that most, including those in positions of authority and law enforcement, choose not to spend the time to update their knowledge about drugs, and still retain the obsolete and narrow-minded views of old. The real scientific facts need be spread to the masses with a "we were wrong" admission.

If methamphetamine consumption causes as much trouble as paranoid people think it does, we'd be seeing news stories every day of yaba-fuelled robberies or accidents on the roads. But we don't, because most recreational drug consumption is without problem, just as most ethanol or nicotine consumption is without problem.

If there is something that is called a recreational human being, then you can start to fill that spot.

It´s the only occupation you will never need a work permit for in Thailand.

Just consider yourself lucky.

[wlcart]

As others have said, decriminalization and regulation have been proved to be very effective in countries like Portugal. However, for this to work you do need investment in treatment, therapy, and education. I can't see the Thai government doing that effectively, unfortunately, although I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know why the general ThaiVisa stance on drugs seems to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' - that approach has been an absolute disaster everywhere, why not try something different?

Sorry mate no dice. Got more than a few friends back in Oz whose lives and families have been ruined by ice. Sadly now most are in the nick. Problem with your theory is they do try rehab first and try and keep em out, but after they haved failed 3 or 4 times and then start jumping through peoples windows or bashing <deleted> or just wigging out, they have to be locked up for everyones sake. In your utopia how many times do you get to try rehab on those that do and also clearly dont want it?

Is ice legal in Oz, no. So how can you compare that to the statement? The argument is that in other countries legalisation has lowered the drug consumption and on top of that those who do use get medical and therapeutic attention, not simply slammed up into a jail and forgotten about, ready to reoffend. If people want to do drugs they will find a way, legal or not

Thats right most will. The point is for most people there is no such thing as recreational drug use. I think anyone that would advocate legalisng the more insidious highly addictive drugs like coke, crack, ice, yaba or any form of meth has no comprehension, knowledge, or first hand experience with any of them. So please tell me once it all becomes legal how much ice or yaba would you like your mates or family to be on? Whats the acceptable recreational legal dosage

You are funny. You obviously do not like drugs, but you sure love drinking the cool aid.

If you mean "most" as in over 50%, you are just factually wrong:

Contrary to popular drug policy discourses that portray drug users as descending from first use into a hell of dependence and addiction, a new analysis of data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) suggests that most first-time users of most drugs were not using them a year later and that for nearly all illicit drugs, more than 90% of first-time users did not become dependent.

The research report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) found that only 1% of first-time users of inhalants and tranquilizers were dependent a year later. For hallucinogens and sedatives, the figure was 2%; for pain relievers and alcohol, 3%. The drug with the highest number of dependent users a year after first use was heroin (13%), followed by crack cocaine (9%), marijuana (6%), stimulants (5%), and powder cocaine (4%).

When it came to any use of the drug within a year after first use, only alcohol and marijuana broke the 50% barrier, with 71% and 52%, respectively. Less than 20% of first-time heroin or crack users were still using after a year without being considered dependent, while slightly more than one-third of stimulant and powder cocaine users were.

Such data may not fit some popular narratives about drug use -- particularly the widely-held notion that methamphetamine is "more addictive" than other substances -- but that's what the numbers say.

[starky]

It's refreshing to hear something different from the authorities than the usual "we're going to get tough on drugs!" mantra, because the old ways have not worked, for decades.

Drugs are everywhere. e.g. in coffee, chocolate, cola soft drinks. Do your children consume any of these? If so, and it's primarily for pleasure (which is usually the case as they are not staple food products), then your children are recreational drug users, and you are a recreational drug supplier to your children.

Do you drink wine or beer because you enjoy it? If so, then you are a recreational drug user too.

If you said yes to any of the above, it's OK. Recreational drug usage should not be a stigma. Such stigma should be eradicated from mainstream society. It is hypocritical of mainstream society to accept consumption of ethanol but not of other less harmful recreational drugs like cannabis and MDMA.

The basis of our views on drugs should be science and statistics. The minister is correct when he said that "methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor".

A lot of the negative views of drug usage were borne from decades of misinformation / propaganda, tied with drug laws being borne from racism. Back then there was no internet, so the masses didn't know any better and couldn't find real information even if they wanted to. These days there is plenty of good factual information that can be found if people spent some time to look. I have spent plenty of time researching the topic, reading widely and watching many documentaries. This has equipped me with a good understanding of the big picture. It is a fascinating and enormous topic that spans many different fields, including medicine and health; psychiatry and psychology; entertainment, recreation and pleasure; philosophy, spirituality and religion; culture and societies; creativity and art; politics and power; mass media and propaganda; law, justice and punishment; business and economics. I can provide plenty of links, as I have done in the past in other threads. It seems however that most, including those in positions of authority and law enforcement, choose not to spend the time to update their knowledge about drugs, and still retain the obsolete and narrow-minded views of old. The real scientific facts need be spread to the masses with a "we were wrong" admission.

If methamphetamine consumption causes as much trouble as paranoid people think it does, we'd be seeing news stories every day of yaba-fuelled robberies or accidents on the roads. But we don't, because most recreational drug consumption is without problem, just as most ethanol or nicotine consumption is without problem.

Yeah nice except for your last paragraph. Crime related to drug use is self generating mate you actually have to be charged or arrested with drugs for it to be a drug crime. All crimes you commit you are done for that crime. The fact that you may or may not be on drugs has little bearing on the charge. Unless you are caught in possession of said substance whilst commiting that crime and it is added to your charge sheet. No paranoia about it mate you clearly have little knowledge of the criminal justice system, been locked up or ever faced prosecution. I have come close enough to giving myself up over this topic already and I will comment no more suffice to say I am glad that I am where I am. A lot of the ignorance and rainbow dreams seem to be coming from people far removed from the realities of the situation. People like yourself that think amphetamine use causes no trouble really are part of the problem.

[Carson2311]

Actually all this is complete nonsense. There are some countries in the world that do not have any laws against drug use or drug making.

Then there are countries that have laws in some particular areas, regarding specific use of certain drugs.

As a third version there are places where all drugs and even entertainment such as gambling are illegal.

I am sure that there are going to be a lot of other different versions too. Just took some as an example to make it more obvious.

Depending on what country you choose to live in or reside in since birth, it´s clearly so that there are laws. As a tourist, resident or citizen living in that country you have to abide by the laws.

It´s just not going to change. There is no reason arguing about it, and there is always going to be a place in a heavenly land for everyone.

Glaze at thoose facts, dudes! Doesn´t it make much more sense now. Legal in one country, but illegal in another. What a joke!

Edited June 17, 2016 by Carson2311

[Winniedapu]

Paiboon does seem to have moments of lucidity, even though he's basically a grunt. The plus is that he's right, existing drug laws are unenforceable, as many countries have already argued. The drugs war has already been lost. The minus is that almost overnight, if it is decriminalised for the user, the price of drugs would collapse, and with it the money to be earned by the police and the army dealing.

So I don't think anything will change, however sensible that might be.

What with this and his previous comments about Rajabhakti, I don't expect Paiboon to last long. Which would be a pity because not many of the current army-wallah government are as smart as he is. Or are more crooked. The justification might be the appalling and laughable c0ck-ups in the political battle against the wat Dhamma-whatever. Watch this space I guess...

There's no doubt though, that the whole country has become waaaay more interesting in recent weeks...

Winnie

Edited June 17, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Carson2311]

Paiboon does seem to have moments of lucidity, even though he's basically a grunt. The plus is that he's right, existing drug laws are unenforceable, as many countries have already argued. The drugs war has already been lost. The minus is that almost overnight, if it is decriminalised for the user, the price of drugs would collapse, and with it the money to be earned by the police and the army dealing.

So I don't think anything will change, however sensible that might be.

What with this and his previous comments about Rajabhakti, I don't expect Paiboon to last long. Which would be a pity because not many of the current army-wallah government are as smart as he is. Or are more crooked. The justification might be the appalling and laughable c0ck-ups in the political battle against the wat Dhamma-whatever. Watch this space I guess...

There's no doubt though, that the whole country has become waaaay more interesting in recent weeks...

Winnie

Yeah, interesting it is. The whole country are like a boiling pot of pumped up speed merchants with a neverending stock pile of ideas for sale at rock bottom prices.

Just wonder if all that is not copies made out of poor quality too.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Carson2311

[starky]

As others have said, decriminalization and regulation have been proved to be very effective in countries like Portugal. However, for this to work you do need investment in treatment, therapy, and education. I can't see the Thai government doing that effectively, unfortunately, although I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know why the general ThaiVisa stance on drugs seems to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' - that approach has been an absolute disaster everywhere, why not try something different?

Sorry mate no dice. Got more than a few friends back in Oz whose lives and families have been ruined by ice. Sadly now most are in the nick. Problem with your theory is they do try rehab first and try and keep em out, but after they haved failed 3 or 4 times and then start jumping through peoples windows or bashing <deleted> or just wigging out, they have to be locked up for everyones sake. In your utopia how many times do you get to try rehab on those that do and also clearly dont want it?

Is ice legal in Oz, no. So how can you compare that to the statement? The argument is that in other countries legalisation has lowered the drug consumption and on top of that those who do use get medical and therapeutic attention, not simply slammed up into a jail and forgotten about, ready to reoffend. If people want to do drugs they will find a way, legal or not

Thats right most will. The point is for most people there is no such thing as recreational drug use. I think anyone that would advocate legalisng the more insidious highly addictive drugs like coke, crack, ice, yaba or any form of meth has no comprehension, knowledge, or first hand experience with any of them. So please tell me once it all becomes legal how much ice or yaba would you like your mates or family to be on? Whats the acceptable recreational legal dosage

You are funny. You obviously do not like drugs, but you sure love drinking the cool aid.

If you mean "most" as in over 50%, you are just factually wrong:

Contrary to popular drug policy discourses that portray drug users as descending from first use into a hell of dependence and addiction, a new analysis of data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) suggests that most first-time users of most drugs were not using them a year later and that for nearly all illicit drugs, more than 90% of first-time users did not become dependent.

The research report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) found that only 1% of first-time users of inhalants and tranquilizers were dependent a year later. For hallucinogens and sedatives, the figure was 2%; for pain relievers and alcohol, 3%. The drug with the highest number of dependent users a year after first use was heroin (13%), followed by crack cocaine (9%), marijuana (6%), stimulants (5%), and powder cocaine (4%).

When it came to any use of the drug within a year after first use, only alcohol and marijuana broke the 50% barrier, with 71% and 52%, respectively. Less than 20% of first-time heroin or crack users were still using after a year without being considered dependent, while slightly more than one-third of stimulant and powder cocaine users were.

Such data may not fit some popular narratives about drug use -- particularly the widely-held notion that methamphetamine is "more addictive" than other substances -- but that's what the numbers say.

Glad that im funny, whats funnier still is that you can pull all your stats off google and still have no comprehension of the written word. "Most" as in most of the people that wish to do drugs will still do them which you may have understood if you read any of the preceding posts. For all your numbers I dont see how first time or even those using a year later correlates at all with habitual users of some drugs. I dont drink any kool aid mate but neither am i giving myself up on this or any other forum but when "most" of the blokes you grew up or knocked around are sloughed because of this shit maybe youd understand. Keep pulling shit off google and wiki eh cos thats so real bra. Maybe we just grew up in different places

[fvw53]

Drug decriminalization – alongside a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services – has been proven to significantly improve public safety and health.

Of course, I am dubious of Thailand's ability to undertake the critical element of drug decriminalization – namely, a serious investment in treatment and harm reduction services.

I'll just leave these here...

• Drug Decriminalisation in Portugal: A Health-Centered Approach: http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
• Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

Decriminalization also kills the 'business" for the mafia's

[NanLaew]

For decades, alcohol in the form of lao khao has been the 'opiate of the Thai masses'. It's cheap, heavily subsidized by the government and keeps the average peasant somewhat happy regardless of the liver cirrhosis, alcoholism and social destruction it engenders. Now there's a new demographic of potentially noisome and querulous social upheaval, the middle class. Their preferred opiate is ya ba so it makes perfect sense that the government should 'control' that if only for the good of the nation.

[thesetat2013]

I think he means the *overall* damage to society (in relative terms). Needless to say much more people drink alcohol than take yaba.

As to the tone of your comment... what drug are you taking everyday? Ego pills? Cynicism tablets? Smart drugs?

He must have gotten his information about the hazards of yaba from the medical council. Only they would give such misinformation saying yaba was less hazardous than cigarettes or alcohol. One has to wonder what drugs this guy is taking on a daily basis to make such a report.

If he meant what you said then he would again be very misinformed. The crime rate would rise causing more damage to innocent people as well as the death rate and the medical needs for those people.

Ohhh! Maybe you are forgetting about the consequences of legalizing such a drug with the user only. Or perhaps you are just trying to goad me with this troll.

[MaxLee]

The rich kids will be more than happy now, raging around the road...........

[lvr181]

As others have said, decriminalization and regulation have been proved to be very effective in countries like Portugal. However, for this to work you do need investment in treatment, therapy, and education. I can't see the Thai government doing that effectively, unfortunately, although I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know why the general ThaiVisa stance on drugs seems to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' - that approach has been an absolute disaster everywhere, why not try something different?

"...why not try something different?"

They cannot fix roads, or reduce road trauma or stop corruption in high places, or many other broken instances, why do you think they can deal with ya-ba?

Apart from making extravagant claims the authorities do not have a good track record of "fixing" anything!

Fanciful thinking, that is all.