Bangkok-Korat railway bidding likely to begin in August



BANGKOK, 17 June 2016 (NNT) – The Thai-Chinese joint committee on the Bangkok- Nakhon Ratchasima railway project has agreed to start with a 3.5-kilometer section in Pak Chong District.

Klang Dong Station has been chosen as the location of the first section of new railway, as the area belongs to the State Railway of Thailand. Construction can begin anytime, since land expropriation is unnecessary.

China is to complete a blueprint for the 3.5 kilometer section within a month so that the electronic auction can start in August and construction can take place in September. Blueprints for the remaining four sections will be the responsibility of Thai and Chinese technicians.

Transport Minister Arkom Termpitayapaisit said funding for the project would be provided by domestic lenders. The Transport Ministry intends that the budget for the entire project be submitted along with the details to cabinet for approval, as soon as possible.


-- NNT 2016-06-17

Three point five kilometres??

Not quiet what the doctor ordered 3.5 Km of rail, for F!!!ks sake , what a joke, the real story , because it is to please the current leader, as negotiations have stalled over the contract price with the Chinese , and what is more , no land procurement has been done, in other words they have no idea what they are doing and how much it will actually cost , if they lay the 3.5km correctly they will know how much a Km the rail will cost and that's on flat railway land . inbred ditherers...........................

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

Please tell me this is not the "High Speed Rail" that the PM was promoting!!!!!

Can you imagine 4 or more sections each built under differing contracts. The chances that different companies will build different sections are high. Even with competent engineering supervision that would be a challenge.

What could possibly go wrong?

The crew to build the railway supplied by Chinese prisoners, free labor so costs will be double so hiso's make healthy profit.

and of course there will be a shuttle service to bus stations and other railway stations?

Hell's bells, it's near Sara Buri! Great planning there, I can see high speed trains shuttling up and down the 3.5KIm of line for many years to come.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=Klang+Dong+Station&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=A6RjV-__AsXbvgTr8bD4DA#q=Klang%20Dong%20Station&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=14647455,101253421,128&tbm=lcl&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:3&fll=14.643671649999991,101.27498845000002&fspn=0.7350369027822197,1.2913779586586145&fz=10&oll=14.643671649999996,101.27498845&ospn=0.02657399468962396,0.09475833970429903&oz=13&qop=1&rlfi=hd:;si:

Edited June 17, 201610 yr by cooked

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

It’s only a 90 minute drive to Pattaya from BKK anyway.

I hope if public funds will be used for this useless 3.5km piece of track that those responsible will be held personally liable to repay the funds when it inevitably ends up sitting there like a white elephant never to be used.

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

Apart from anything else, I don't think they have the rolling stock.

They have got yards stuffed full of carriages, depots crammed with locomotives, but most of them are broken.

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

Ahhhhhh

Well, what to think about the proposed new line from Ban Phai to Nakhon Phantom.

Obviously interesting in traffic to and from Bangkok and Korat.

If, with some thinking out of the box and making the line connect Khon Kaen and Nakhon Phanom, not only the traffic to Bangkok and Korat could have been serviced but also the interprovincial traffic between KK and NP.

Also, in terms of exploitation, simpler to change the planning of services if the occupancy of trains to BKK and NR is not as expected.

Oh well......

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

You are spot on in my opinion.

The solution would be to build the railway as double track with a standard guage and run normal engines on it.

No need for high speed trains as normal Thais couldn't afford to travel on it and the rich would be using airlines anyway.

You wouldn't need the Chinese technology and as Thailand will be in recession (as the world is coming to an economic slowdown) could be built by the Thais themselves.

Three point five kilometres??

After that they run out of budget and need amendments.

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

You are spot on in my opinion.

The solution would be to build the railway as double track with a standard guage and run normal engines on it.

No need for high speed trains as normal Thais couldn't afford to travel on it and the rich would be using airlines anyway.

You wouldn't need the Chinese technology and as Thailand will be in recession (as the world is coming to an economic slowdown) could be built by the Thais themselves.

I think you're both probably right, but you miss what is probably the biggest argument in favour of the whole high-speed train thing.

Which is that if the Chinese High-speed train does not happen, Dumpy and Grumpy would not be able to pretend that they're 'dynamically and fearlessly driving Thailand towards being in the developed world in 10 years".

Revamping the trains to Pattaya just doesn't have the same 'we saved our entire country' ring about it. Besides, the motorway people would be furious.

Winnie

Edited June 17, 201610 yr by Winniedapu

There continues to be a stench about these high speed rail projects. In this specific case:

- Internationally qualified companies that might be interested in a sizable project may give this mini project a pass, thus clearing the way for a favored local firm. Future segments could then be awarded to the less qualified contractor under variation orders (with a little creative wording n the initial contract).

- the time frame for bidding in August and starting construction in September presupposes a very fast evaluation and award process; pretty strange considering the extra qualifications and experience that might be deemed essential for a high speed track. Perhaps the winner is already known.

- Commitment of funds for most of the line will not occur until later; suggesting there is some kind of urgency in getting this initial money spent. I wonder who the lucky recipient is.

-

This whole project is a waste of tax payers money because the "High-speed" train will never be profitable, how can it be when there are so many forms of cheap transportation available.

And why Korat? Nothing there.

Unfortunately this brilliant government has numerous idiotic plans it wants to force through, like the "High-speed" train, like the cashless society idea etc. But Thais who take trains want to travel cheaply, and how is the cashless idea going to work down at the local market, it won't because the locals prefer cash in the hand and always will. Anyway the cashless idea is a way to make people do as they are told, annoy the government and your bank account gets frozen.

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

You are spot on in my opinion.

The solution would be to build the railway as double track with a standard guage and run normal engines on it.

No need for high speed trains as normal Thais couldn't afford to travel on it and the rich would be using airlines anyway.

You wouldn't need the Chinese technology and as Thailand will be in recession (as the world is coming to an economic slowdown) could be built by the Thais themselves.

Double track, yes, definitely.

Standard gauge?

Why?

Would mean a total rebuild of this line.

Much better to make the whole line double track, one metre gauge.

If laid well, good maintenance, concrete sleepers, heavy gauge rails, the line would be good for 120+ km/h, at least.

The locomotive power now on order is good for 120 km/h, the carriages now on delivery are also 120+ km/h.

Seems to me a lot cheaper and speedier to realise as building a completely new double track line, buying new locs and carriages that can not be used in the rest of the country.

Stop thinking that two different gauges in a country is economical or easy to put in exploitation.

Thailand has, like all surrounding countries plus Indonesia a one metre gauge railway, and that can be good till 150 km/h.

The Chinese idea of implementing and building standard gauge railways in Thailand is military thinking, nothing else.

Seen the trouble brewing with China, it would be prudent to stay away from China military wishes.

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

You are spot on in my opinion.

The solution would be to build the railway as double track with a standard guage and run normal engines on it.

No need for high speed trains as normal Thais couldn't afford to travel on it and the rich would be using airlines anyway.

You wouldn't need the Chinese technology and as Thailand will be in recession (as the world is coming to an economic slowdown) could be built by the Thais themselves.

Double track, yes, definitely.

Standard gauge?

Why?

Would mean a total rebuild of this line.

Much better to make the whole line double track, one metre gauge.

If laid well, good maintenance, concrete sleepers, heavy gauge rails, the line would be good for 120+ km/h, at least.

The locomotive power now on order is good for 120 km/h, the carriages now on delivery are also 120+ km/h.

Seems to me a lot cheaper and speedier to realise as building a completely new double track line, buying new locs and carriages that can not be used in the rest of the country.

Stop thinking that two different gauges in a country is economical or easy to put in exploitation.

Thailand has, like all surrounding countries plus Indonesia a one metre gauge railway, and that can be good till 150 km/h.

The Chinese idea of implementing and building standard gauge railways in Thailand is military thinking, nothing else.

Seen the trouble brewing with China, it would be prudent to stay away from China military wishes.

You have a good point at leaving it at 1 metre guage but I was thinking that with standrad guage, they could run freight/container trains from china to the ports near Bangkok without stopping and changing over.

120 kms is well adequate because freight doesn't travel faster and by the time the train builds up speed it is at the next station; though I think they would have to run faster trains that stop less frequently to gain customers from the coaches.

I also thought that there would be a bigger market for second hand engines from those countries that have gone high speed.

I was thinking they could lay the new standard guage next to the old gauge, then rip up the old guage and lay the new guage.

They just ned some passing loops at key places and container terminals at key places and that would take a lot of the freight off the road.

Edited June 17, 201610 yr by Cashboy

Can never understand why the Bangkok to Pattaya line still has a 1930's timetable of one train a day in each direction which is non-aircon and takes roughly 4 hours. No trains at the weekend at all I believe but then, silly me, who would want to come to Pattaya for the week-end from Bangkok? Compared to the cost of these long distance super trains an up-grade to double track and electrification on the Bangkok - Pattaya line would be small beer I would have thought. For long stretches there is enough land already either side owned by the SRT to double track without appropriating more. Then increase to service to half hourly, stopping at Sri Racha, Chonburi and Suvarnabhumi airport with an improved freight link to Laem Chabang container port and you've got the makings of a highly profitable line. Sadly, the concept of profit is an entirely unfamiliar one to the SRT and will remain so even when these long distance high speed lines get built (if they ever do).

You are spot on in my opinion.

The solution would be to build the railway as double track with a standard guage and run normal engines on it.

No need for high speed trains as normal Thais couldn't afford to travel on it and the rich would be using airlines anyway.

You wouldn't need the Chinese technology and as Thailand will be in recession (as the world is coming to an economic slowdown) could be built by the Thais themselves.

Double track, yes, definitely.

Standard gauge?

Why?

Would mean a total rebuild of this line.

Much better to make the whole line double track, one metre gauge.

If laid well, good maintenance, concrete sleepers, heavy gauge rails, the line would be good for 120+ km/h, at least.

The locomotive power now on order is good for 120 km/h, the carriages now on delivery are also 120+ km/h.

Seems to me a lot cheaper and speedier to realise as building a completely new double track line, buying new locs and carriages that can not be used in the rest of the country.

Stop thinking that two different gauges in a country is economical or easy to put in exploitation.

Thailand has, like all surrounding countries plus Indonesia a one metre gauge railway, and that can be good till 150 km/h.

The Chinese idea of implementing and building standard gauge railways in Thailand is military thinking, nothing else.

Seen the trouble brewing with China, it would be prudent to stay away from China military wishes.

You have a good point at leaving it at 1 metre guage but I was thinking that with standrad guage, they could run freight/container trains from china to the ports near Bangkok without stopping and changing over.

120 kms is well adequate because freight doesn't travel faster and by the time the train builds up speed it is at the next station; though I think they would have to run faster trains that stop less frequently to gain customers from the coaches.

I also thought that there would be a bigger market for second hand engines from those countries that have gone high speed.

I was thinking they could lay the new standard guage next to the old gauge, then rip up the old guage and lay the new guage.

They just ned some passing loops at key places and container terminals at key places and that would take a lot of the freight off the road.

The work needed, the room needed, the investment into the track and what is below the track, is astronomical.

Changing from one gauge to another is not so simple, Google about the gauge changing in Australia.

The most important, however, is the difference in gauges in a country and neighbouring countries.

See the trouble gauge changing between Poland and Russia, for example.

With the upgrading of existing lines in Thailand and double tracking I bet building standard gauge railways is not really necessary, for Thailand.

Well laid tracks, as in very many places in Thailand, with heavy rails (+50kg/m) and concrete sleepers the axle load permissable is 20 tons metric, the planned speed, for the time being, is max 120 km/h, but can be raised to 150 km/h.

So, who needs Chinese railways?

Some time ago a train from Nong Thai to Bangkok bumped into a truck before arriving in Khon Kaen.

It departed, eventually, from KhonKaen 2:55 hours delayed.

Arrived in Ayuddhya 1:52 delayed.

It managed to win back 1:03 hour.

Must have driven with a sometimes speed of much higher as 120 km/h

And as I was a passenger in that train, and having spend some years in quality control with the Dutch Railways, I can assure you it was a comfortable journey.

Thailand needs upgrading, double tracking, of it's network, suitable rolling stock for raising frequency and offering better quality.

What is does not need is two or three different systems.

About second hand locs, only the European surplus might be suitable, but most are 25+ years old, and need other bogeys.

Thailand, my idea, is not really needing medium speed, standard gauge railway lines, simply because the maximum speed differences are not worth the investment.

I think its quite sensible, what they are not saying in reality (Due to face saving) is that the 3.5KM track will be inspected and tested for quality and will be the benchmark for the complete project.

A kind of practice run so to speak, then the chinese come along and say "This is not right, that is wrong, this bit will fall apart in 10 years" etc...

Would you want to run 200 KM of line that is not fit for purpose?

...even if the Chinese were to PAY for everything--the Nong Khai--BKK run with spurs to Rayong, Pattaya, a new line to Ayutthaya and let's run a NEW high speed line to Chiang Mai and another one west from Udon Thani to Loei and link with with Chiang Mai.

Why spot there? A new rail line to Hua Hin and Phuket, and the Chonburi-Pattaya-Sattahip-UTapao-Rayong line loops up with the Bkk-Rayong spur.

None of this will happen, why? Kon Thai are leery of the Chinese, understandably so. They want to weather the current fad of globalism and to keep a 6th Chinese invasion at bay.

3.5 km test stretch? Can anyone send these clowns in office a LIONEL train set? Trains are not rocket science, why make them out to be? Why not run the BTS line to Korat? A few BTS spurs to Ayutthaya?

I wouldn't have thought that 3.5 km would even provide a long enough run to allow a High Speed Train to get up to running speed and stop again. So not much use as a test track then.

Re: the "test track" theory.

In Germany, a high speed test track was 31 km long.

India has announced a high speed test track 20 km long.

Simple acceleration/time/distance calculations show 3.5 km is not long enough for high speed train testing.

SO...the "test track" theory is BUSTED.

However, I will admit the "Single Fiery Test" theory could be still in play.

Edited June 18, 201610 yr by phoenixdoglover

Re: the "test track" theory.

In Germany, a high speed test track was 31 km long.

India has announced a high speed test track 20 km long.

Simple acceleration/time/distance calculations show 3.5 km is not long enough for high speed train testing.

SO...the "test track" theory is BUSTED.

However, I will admit the "Single Fiery Test" theory could be still in play.

You might be right, though I think the dynamic duo realise how badly they've bolloxed the whole railway thing up, and are desperate for something they can point to and say "See, concrete results already!"

You know its BS, I know it's BS, anyone with a functioning brain knows it BS. But they might think Thais will swallow it. There's been enough educated comment here to suggest that 3.5km is next to useless for anything, but that won't matter to Dumpy and Grumpy. I'm inclined to agree with the poster who suggested the whole process doesn't add up, and that maybe the name of the contractor has already been decided.

Crack down on corruption my left foot. Lets not forget who's worth 600,000,000 baht - all saved on a terminating annual salary of 1,000,000. and who refuses to allow army wallahs in the government to have their assets examined. Bit of a give-away really.

Seriously bad karma.

Winnie

Edited June 18, 201610 yr by Winniedapu

I think its quite sensible, what they are not saying in reality (Due to face saving) is that the 3.5KM track will be inspected and tested for quality and will be the benchmark for the complete project.

A kind of practice run so to speak, then the chinese come along and say "This is not right, that is wrong, this bit will fall apart in 10 years" etc...

Would you want to run 200 KM of line that is not fit for purpose?

Might it be the test track will be built by the Chinese, and the copiers will be copied?

The Chinese have first hand experience in copying railway technology and finding out that copying sometimes does not work as intended.

Edited June 18, 201610 yr by hansnl

Must have missed 1st of April.

If things don't work out with the HST they could always turn the 3.5km of track into a railway museum......oh yer, most of the museum pieces are still in revenue service with SRT!