'Stairway to Heaven' creator Page rebuffs lawyer at trial

[webfact]

'Stairway to Heaven' creator Page rebuffs lawyer at trial
By BRIAN MELLEY

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page demonstrated a deft touch Thursday in deflecting questions aimed at showing he might have lifted a passage for the introduction to the 1971 hit "Stairway to Heaven."

Testifying in his defense for a second day in a copyright infringement case, Page showed little interest in comparing his composition with the obscure earlier instrumental work in question, "Taurus," by the late Randy Wolfe, founder of the band Spirit.

Page was reluctant to discuss the tempo of the two songs or the structure, thwarting the lawyer representing Wolfe's estate in the case against Led Zeppelin, Page and singer Robert Plant, as well as several music companies.

"You want to step through it?" attorney Francis Malofiy asked as he tried to get Page to discuss the "Taurus" sheet music, which is the work protected by copyright.

"Not necessarily," Page replied, sending a ripple of comic relief through the gallery during an otherwise dull day of testimony in the case.

Page, 72, had entered the courtroom carrying a guitar, but wrapped up testifying without playing a note. The closest he came was during a break when he briefly struck a jamming pose and played air guitar and laughed with Plant in the courtroom.

Jurors and a packed audience did get to hear the familiar opening chords of "Stairway," but they came not from Page, but from an expert who played an acoustic guitar and said he found it was strikingly similar to "Taurus."

Kevin Hanson, a guitar instructor and former member of Huffamoose, played passages from both songs on acoustic guitar and says they are virtually identical. When listening to videos of the two played simultaneously, he said there was nothing discordant about them.

"To my ear, they sound like they are one piece of music," he said.

On cross-examination, however, Hanson, who doesn't have a college degree and is not a musicologist, said he can easily tell the two songs apart.

Another plaintiff expert, Alexander Stewart, a music professor at the University of Vermont, said he found five categories in which both songs had significant similarities, including a descending chord progression, notes lasting the same duration and a series of arpeggios and similar pairs of notes.

Stewart said the descending chord progression and other elements have been found in songs dating to the 1600s. But he testified that of more than 65 songs the defense has said have a similar construction, including "My Funny Valentine," the Beatles' "Michelle," and "Chim Chim Cher-ee" from the movie "Mary Poppins," none contained all five elements shared by "Taurus" and "Stairway."

"Not one of them came close," Stewart said, though he acknowledged on cross-examination that the notes in both songs didn't all line up in the same places.

The plaintiffs are expected to wrap up their case Friday with the estate trustee, Michael Skidmore, concluding his testimony and a financial expert.

Malofiy tried unsuccessfully to introduce evidence of a $60 million deal Led Zeppelin signed for the rights to its catalog, but the judge wouldn't allow it because it was from 2008 and extends beyond the statute of limitations.

Page, wearing a suit, tie and his white hair pulled back in a ponytail, was asked about several contracts. Peering through his reading spectacles, he was asked to read the title on the document.

"Confidential," he said as the courtroom erupted with laughter.

Before concluding his testimony, Page was played "Chim Chim Cher-ee," and Malofiy asked if it was the inspiration for "Stairway."

He smiled as the recording sung by Dick Van Dyke was played and said he was familiar with the ditty but said it wasn't his inspiration.

"I think I have said that the chord sequence is very similar because that chord sequence has been around forever," he said.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-17

[Songlaw]

Were this to be challenged today, the passage in question would at best be considered 'sampled.' If some sort of actual musical plagiarism had taken place, the songs, not only the lead-in or intro, would have to be distinctly similar. That is not the case. Did Spirit unwittingly supply some ethereal subconscious memory to Page and/or Plant that resulted in one of the most iconic ballads in Rock history? Quite possible. Was this song the result of a premeditated, surreptitious act of plagiarism? In my estimation? Not a freaking chance. These two bands, with due respect to both, did not even breathe similar air.

[khunianb]

But they did tour together when Taurus was played and STH had not been recorded.

[phantomfiddler]

Just imagine the chaos if someone had patented the G Chord

[Mansell]

It strikes me as a bit odd that the original band Spirit didn't sue Zeppelin for this songs music. But it is family members maybe looking for a 40 million dollar payday.......all a little late in the day considering the song was written in 1971. Great song.

[Andaman Al]

Just imagine the chaos if someone had patented the G Chord

Well somebody did patent the G-String!

[arjunadawn]

Were this to be challenged today, the passage in question would at best be considered 'sampled.' If some sort of actual musical plagiarism had taken place, the songs, not only the lead-in or intro, would have to be distinctly similar. That is not the case. Did Spirit unwittingly supply some ethereal subconscious memory to Page and/or Plant that resulted in one of the most iconic ballads in Rock history? Quite possible. Was this song the result of a premeditated, surreptitious act of plagiarism? In my estimation? Not a freaking chance. These two bands, with due respect to both, did not even breathe similar air.

Nice, smart post. Thx. Liked it.

[arjunadawn]

Delete. Double post

Edited June 17, 2016 by arjunadawn

[Norvid]

Step down to a water and enjoy:

https://youtu.be/HnRpKNbWvqs

[ozyjon]

Who cares, the goldiggers are they Thai descendants ?

[PeeJay1959]

Just imagine the chaos if someone had patented the G Chord

Well somebody did patent the G-String!

Whats is the difference between cord and string anyway?

[NovaBlue05]

Just say..."Look, it was 50 years ago, I was probably ingesting multiple illegal substances and I don't remember a bloody thing"

[wooloomooloo]

I'm hearing a distinct likeness to Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini. It's uncanny.

[Ulic]

Never mind the G-cord, never mind the G-string, I am submitting my patented for the G-spot

and every time it is touched I expect a royalty payment.

[SpokaneAl]

Were this to be challenged today, the passage in question would at best be considered 'sampled.' If some sort of actual musical plagiarism had taken place, the songs, not only the lead-in or intro, would have to be distinctly similar. That is not the case. Did Spirit unwittingly supply some ethereal subconscious memory to Page and/or Plant that resulted in one of the most iconic ballads in Rock history? Quite possible. Was this song the result of a premeditated, surreptitious act of plagiarism? In my estimation? Not a freaking chance. These two bands, with due respect to both, did not even breathe similar air.

Led Zeppelin has a documented history of stealing the music of others and, on several occasions, paid portions of royalties and/or gave writing credits to those they stole from. IMO the fact that LZ was much more successful than Spirit - which was a very good band, again IMO - is a non issue. Edited June 17, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[NumbNut]

Were this to be challenged today, the passage in question would at best be considered 'sampled.' If some sort of actual musical plagiarism had taken place, the songs, not only the lead-in or intro, would have to be distinctly similar. That is not the case. Did Spirit unwittingly supply some ethereal subconscious memory to Page and/or Plant that resulted in one of the most iconic ballads in Rock history? Quite possible. Was this song the result of a premeditated, surreptitious act of plagiarism? In my estimation? Not a freaking chance. These two bands, with due respect to both, did not even breathe similar air.

Led Zeppelin has a documented history of stealing the music of others and, on several occasions, paid portions of royalties and/or gave writing credits to those they stole from. IMO the fact that LZ was much more successful than Spirit - which was a very good band, again IMO - is a non issue.

Agreed Spokane. I love the Zep, but it's the truth.

[bendejo]

This started as a spoof, a tape by a local San Francisco band in the late 1970s sent to a local radio station (the original KSAN). People were calling in to the station asking them to play it again, and they did. Then they got a very firm notice from Zep's lawyers to cease and desist. Seems the band was quite humorless about it.

[freedom4life]

For the most part pop-artists are simply con-artists...Page being one of the biggest ones...

[sniffdog]

That's why Page is one of the few being able to live in Pattaya for a considerate amount if time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SpokaneAl]

The news is reporting that Led Zeppelin earned almost $60 million over the past five years from this single song, so there is a great deal at stake. I had also read that Randy California, before he passed, was very disappointed that LZ never reached out and shared a bit of credit with him on this song. He thought very highly of Page, Plant and LZ.

Edited June 18, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[luckyman]

Checked Taurus on youtube, it does sound very similar.

They (the family) do have a case here imo.

[dick dasterdly]

Checked Taurus on youtube, it does sound very similar.

They (the family) do have a case here imo.

IF they have a case, (I say IF because 1) it is v likely to be the result of an unconscious memory, rather than plagerism and 2) it is only a tiny portion of the song) - then perhaps the answer would be to credit the Spirit writer on recordings, but not award the greedy family any royalties.

[Andaman Al]

Just imagine the chaos if someone had patented the G Chord

Well somebody did patent the G-String!

Whats is the difference between cord and string anyway?

Please elaborate. I can't wait for this

[Songlaw]

But they did tour together when Taurus was played and STH had not been recorded.

I am amending my thinking on this subject somewhat, in light of what you wrote, and admitting that this clouds the waters a bit. It would also lend credence to the fact that Randy had, over time, developed a camaraderie with Page and Plant, and possibly would not have begrudged them the few bars in question. After all, he is the one who would have had to have taken issue at some point during his life for this case to take on any legs whatsoever. Also, something I haven't seen anyone mention of late is the purported clandestine purchase of the entire Spirit catalog by Plant/Page ca. 2007. If that is the case, then they are the owners of the arrangements of both songs anyway. A brilliant preemptive strike, if ever there was one.

[Songlaw]

Just imagine the chaos if someone had patented the G Chord

Well somebody did patent the G-String!

Whats is the difference between cord and string anyway?

Between cord and string, very little. Between chord and string, quite a lot, actually.

[pmugghc]

But they did tour together when Taurus was played and STH had not been recorded.

I am amending my thinking on this subject somewhat, in light of what you wrote, and admitting that this clouds the waters a bit. It would also lend credence to the fact that Randy had, over time, developed a camaraderie with Page and Plant, and possibly would not have begrudged them the few bars in question. After all, he is the one who would have had to have taken issue at some point during his life for this case to take on any legs whatsoever. Also, something I haven't seen anyone mention of late is the purported clandestine purchase of the entire Spirit catalog by Plant/Page ca. 2007. If that is the case, then they are the owners of the arrangements of both songs anyway. A brilliant preemptive strike, if ever there was one.

Interesting, do you have any link?

[Songlaw]

Were this to be challenged today, the passage in question would at best be considered 'sampled.' If some sort of actual musical plagiarism had taken place, the songs, not only the lead-in or intro, would have to be distinctly similar. That is not the case. Did Spirit unwittingly supply some ethereal subconscious memory to Page and/or Plant that resulted in one of the most iconic ballads in Rock history? Quite possible. Was this song the result of a premeditated, surreptitious act of plagiarism? In my estimation? Not a freaking chance. These two bands, with due respect to both, did not even breathe similar air.

Led Zeppelin has a documented history of stealing the music of others and, on several occasions, paid portions of royalties and/or gave writing credits to those they stole from. IMO the fact that LZ was much more successful than Spirit - which was a very good band, again IMO - is a non issue.

Agreed, at least in part. However, I do not feel this is a similar case to the others you mentioned, though due to another post, I am rethinking things at the moment. Just the same, as someone with a lengthy and somewhat disciplined musical background, I would never have meant to equate degrees of fame with talent. Not on your life. I was referencing a fairly pronounced distance in musicianship, as well as depth and breadth of lasting impact on the industry, with my 'similar air' statement. Spirit was an excellent band in its own right, and had Randy "California" Wolfe survived to this day, I would have liked to hear his thoughts on this particular case, directly. Someone said that he spoke on this before he died, but provided no link. If anyone has a credible link, I would love to read what he said. I am not saying Page did not lift the measure, or at least the essence of the measure, which was mirrored in the intro. What I am saying is this song was not plagiarized, and cannot be adjudicated as such. As iconic as the intro is/was, it is far from the lion's share of the reason this song remains among the most (over?)played in R&R history. No one has to agree with me, ever. This is simply my assessment.

[Rancid]

I think its a difficult issue, even if a few chords were borrowed, Spirit was never able to put together a song like STH. Also being a Zep fan from way back, they were brilliant musos with a huge catalogue of very good and diverse material, was it all stolen?

As an interesting side note none of the members were nobodies: Bonham was regarded as one of the great drummers, saw a video of Page on TV when he was 15, then he ended up doing session work and then in the Yardbirds before LZ, Jones had a lengthy career of working arrangements with major acts prior to LZ, Plant actually tried out as vocalist for Slade but was rejected, Noddy Holder eventually decided to sing.

They are a massive target that unlike so many these days, earned their success through talent and years in the industry.

[SpokaneAl]

However this turns out, I find it difficult to generate much sympathy for the band, especially given their history. There are plenty of other bands - the Allman Brothers and the Rolling Stones come to mind - who were happy to give credit where credit was due. LZ, not so much.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelins-10-boldest-rip-offs-20160622

Edited June 22, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[webfact]

RELATED TOPIC:

Jury could rewrite history of Led Zeppelin's epic 'Stairway'

BRIAN MELLEY, Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A key chapter of rock 'n' roll history could be rewritten by a jury that began deliberating Wednesday over whether Led Zeppelin ripped off a riff for its epic "Stairway to Heaven."

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/926950-jury-could-rewrite-history-of-led-zeppelins-epic-stairway-to-heaven/