building on my wifes land

[Harveyboy]

hi can anyone help with a few question im getting married in feb ..my girlfriend comes from a nice family she has a good job with the government ive known her for 4 years she owns about 10 rai of land.. i wanted to buy a house but as you know farang cannot own land is there a way we can build on her land but put some form of protection in order for me i know i cant own her land but is there a legal way i can own the house im not looking to ever leave but just peace of mind. the amount of land we would use would easily be equal to the cost of the price of building a small property

[steve187]

build it lose it forever, lots of threads on here about the same topic, do some searching

Edited June 17, 2016 by steve187

[sniffdog]

This is a good site:

http://udonthanihouse.com/html/thai_property_law.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited June 17, 2016 by sniffdog

[baansgr]

Various ways through leases etc but if anything ever happened, would you still want to stay there. Is the land near her family. Its unlikely you would be happy or even welcome there in the event of a breakup and although legally you could stay you probably wouldn't want to. If the land has a Chanote and your GF agrees, you can have a loan made by you to her attached to the Chanote without actually giving her the money but for the same value as you pay to build, she wont be able to sell without repaying you the said amount. If she dosnt agree then you should think twice. Be safe and buy a condo or only spend what you don't mind possibly loosing in the future.

[chiang mai]

If you take out an usufruct NOW, before you get married, you will have the protected right to live on the land and use it as your own for the rest of your life, you could even lease the land if you want to, . But if you wait until you are married before taking out the usufruct, it can be made invalid at time of divorce, this is because you can't make a binding legal contract with your wife in Thailand. There's several threads on this subject so perhaps worth doing a search and reading what has been said on this subject.

Perhaps try the following as a starter: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=110920

And this: http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

Edited June 17, 2016 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Various ways through leases etc but if anything ever happened, would you still want to stay there. Is the land near her family. Its unlikely you would be happy or even welcome there in the event of a breakup and although legally you could stay you probably wouldn't want to. If the land has a Chanote and your GF agrees, you can have a loan made by you to her attached to the Chanote without actually giving her the money but for the same value as you pay to build, she wont be able to sell without repaying you the said amount. If she dosnt agree then you should think twice. Be safe and buy a condo or only spend what you don't mind possibly loosing in the future.

A foreigner is forbidden under Thai law from loaning money to a Thai national for the purpose of buying land. This is because in the event of default the foreigner would need to take possession on the land which is also forbidden under Thai law.

[tomwct]

No problem, if you can afford to walk away in the future! It's her house when you finish building. No court in Thailand will force her to sell her land and give you anything!

Edited June 17, 2016 by tomwct

[chiang mai]

No problem, if you can afford to walk away in the future! It's her house when you finish building. No court in Thailand will force her to sell her land and give you anything!

Untrue, divorce laws in Thailand are not that different from those in the West, a 50/50 split of assets acquired during marriage is very common.

[Carib]

First start by making sure it is her land. It is not so because everybody says it is, or the village headman says it is true. Check at the landoffice if there is a title deed in her name. If not forget about it or be prepared to lose your investment.

[chiang mai]

First start by making sure it is her land. It is not so because everybody says it is, or the village headman says it is true. Check at the landoffice if there is a title deed in her name. If not forget about it or be prepared to lose your investment.

Good advice, make sure there's a real channotte and make extra sure there's no name on the back of it (which is where the ususfruct or lease is registered)..

[tomwct]

Don't listen to these guys who talk about Thai law and marriage! First of all, this is his girlfriend. I have lived in Korat 13 years and seen allot of divorces.

Not one time, did a Thai Court order the selling of a house on his wife's land. I know some cases where it's been in the courts for up to 4-5 years pending

a decision, but believe me it won't happen. Build if you can afford to lose it, otherwise, buy a condo before your married.

[chiang mai]

Don't listen to these guys who talk about Thai law and marriage! First of all, this is his girlfriend. I have lived in Korat 13 years and seen allot of divorces.

Not one time, did a Thai Court order the selling of a house on his wife's land. I know some cases where it's been in the courts for up to 4-5 years pending

a decision, but believe me it won't happen. Build if you can afford to lose it, otherwise, buy a condo before your married.

"First of all, this is his girlfriend".

You need to go back and read what was written more carefully and completely, I recommended an usufruct in the knowledge that his partner is not yet his wife, if she were it would be too late to use the usufruct approach!

Marital assets are those that were acquired during the marriage, assets acquired by each person before the marriage are not included. So, if the Thai partner already owned the land before the couple were married and regardless of when a house was built, if there was no usufruct in place, those things wouldn't be considered marital assets either.

But I'm not going to argue with anyone over this issue, regardless of how long they say they've been here or the things they've seen. Use of usufructs in Thailand by a foreign partner is now mainstream whereas ten years ago it was not common for Thai lawyers to recommend them, most advised going the company route which has now been proven as illegal and is actively being discontinued.

Go and see a good lawyer, it's not expensive and will give you peace of mind, hopefully you have enough material here now to where you can start to ask sensible questions. But what ever you do, don't be put off or swayed by bitter expats who tried to cut corners and didn't use a decent lawyer or who simply did it wrong in the first place - don't listen to bar stool rumours also, a couple of thousand to get proper legal advice will pay dividends in the future. Out.

[meatboy]

famous words that can be found in the thai dictionary,IM NOT LOOKING TO EVER LEAVE

[baansgr]

Various ways through leases etc but if anything ever happened, would you still want to stay there. Is the land near her family. Its unlikely you would be happy or even welcome there in the event of a breakup and although legally you could stay you probably wouldn't want to. If the land has a Chanote and your GF agrees, you can have a loan made by you to her attached to the Chanote without actually giving her the money but for the same value as you pay to build, she wont be able to sell without repaying you the said amount. If she dosnt agree then you should think twice. Be safe and buy a condo or only spend what you don't mind possibly loosing in the future.

A foreigner is forbidden under Thai law from loaning money to a Thai national for the purpose of buying land. This is because in the event of default the foreigner would need to take possession on the land which is also forbidden under Thai law.

She already owns the land so he isn't lending for the purpose of purchasing the land. In the event of default the land would be sold not transferred to his name. This is quite a common practice. Be interesting if you have a link to showing this law as I know a number of people that have done this.

[shirtless]

Some very good advice , make sure it has a title deed and no lean over it , ensure title deed is in her name only, You will lose it in the long run as nothing last forever in this country , that goes for most relationships buy a condo in your name, I bet you will get a lot of grief .

[chiang mai]

Various ways through leases etc but if anything ever happened, would you still want to stay there. Is the land near her family. Its unlikely you would be happy or even welcome there in the event of a breakup and although legally you could stay you probably wouldn't want to. If the land has a Chanote and your GF agrees, you can have a loan made by you to her attached to the Chanote without actually giving her the money but for the same value as you pay to build, she wont be able to sell without repaying you the said amount. If she dosnt agree then you should think twice. Be safe and buy a condo or only spend what you don't mind possibly loosing in the future.

A foreigner is forbidden under Thai law from loaning money to a Thai national for the purpose of buying land. This is because in the event of default the foreigner would need to take possession on the land which is also forbidden under Thai law.

She already owns the land so he isn't lending for the purpose of purchasing the land. In the event of default the land would be sold not transferred to his name. This is quite a common practice. Be interesting if you have a link to showing this law as I know a number of people that have done this.

If she already owns the land and the lending is for a house, that would be something entirely different since the land would not be capable of being transferred and it is legal for a foreigner to own a house (but not the land). No I do not have a link for the above, it's one of those subjects that has been debated every few months on TVF for many years and the outcome is always the same except new pieces of law get added to the main theme as people uncover them - a recent example of this is the news that an usufruct between married people is unsafe as is an usufruct that is zero rent.

NOTE: one of the other ways to go about all of the above is, if she owns the land, is for her to take out a mortgage and for you to guarantee it and make the payments with the land as the collateral.

Edited June 18, 2016 by chiang mai

[Harveyboy]

ok thanks for all the comments ..first she owns the land thats certain at the moment she is in a better financial position than me her government job has a decent wage ive been to work with her for several months so not saying she has a job and works in a bar ...nothing against bar girls ok ... so can clear that . good family not dependant on farang prosesional most in government she has land in other parts of Phetchabun central and country... so own car good job clean living so on so on !!!!!!! i know all of us have heard the horror stories over there of guys getting fleeced ..but ive seen it just as bad here in France where the guys gets sweet nothing and the wife gets all every relationship is a risk who knows whats around the corner for any of us so one comment get a loan and secure it with the land we spoke of this and she was fine BUT 6% interest when all i get if im lucky is 1% ...1.5 % the maths dont work in favour of a loan i know its more security but but good idea tks... the investment for me is the building modest house but in the point of her putting up 10 rai of land ..could rent but hope to start a family soon so if it goes bottoms up and in a few years things were not good i would be leaving it to the kid anyway ..also i already have a condo always have something in reserve wait to hear ...

[473geo]

Best way to look at this, you are creating/providing a modest home, for your wife (and children) - enjoy, it is great feeling

If the time does arrive when you must move on......you move on

[Pinot]

I always advise never to buy or build a house here. There is plenty to rent. Doesn't matter where you are.

If the money is burning a hole in your pocket...let it burn. She'll find a way to spend it. Big mistake to get married and then buy a house. Just be prepared to walk away from it with nothing. That's likely what will happen in the end.

Rent. When someone builds a hog farm next to your new house, or any of the 1000's of reasons not to own, remember what we told you.

[cornishcarlos]

A Usufruct, taken out after marriage, will still protect you against unscrupulous family members in the event of your wife passing before you do.

That is what I will do with our latest plot, as its where I want to build a house to live.

If we ever get divorced then what happens, happens

[chiang mai]

ok thanks for all the comments ..first she owns the land thats certain at the moment she is in a better financial position than me her government job has a decent wage ive been to work with her for several months so not saying she has a job and works in a bar ...nothing against bar girls ok ... so can clear that . good family not dependant on farang prosesional most in government she has land in other parts of Phetchabun central and country... so own car good job clean living so on so on !!!!!!! i know all of us have heard the horror stories over there of guys getting fleeced ..but ive seen it just as bad here in France where the guys gets sweet nothing and the wife gets all every relationship is a risk who knows whats around the corner for any of us so one comment get a loan and secure it with the land we spoke of this and she was fine BUT 6% interest when all i get if im lucky is 1% ...1.5 % the maths dont work in favour of a loan i know its more security but but good idea tks... the investment for me is the building modest house but in the point of her putting up 10 rai of land ..could rent but hope to start a family soon so if it goes bottoms up and in a few years things were not good i would be leaving it to the kid anyway ..also i already have a condo always have something in reserve wait to hear ...

Just to add: government workers typically have access to low interest rate loans.

[thehelmsman]

Some folks are born renters and some of us are home owners. As said countless times before, if you can't walk away from the house in a good finanicial situation then you have absolutely no business investing in a house in Thailand.

[Harveyboy]

ok so just want to say tks for all the and comments and ideas lots to think about just a few replies not looking at it as an investment need a place to live with my family ..i know its a risk but sometimes we need to give the benefit of the doubt im an x pat of over 30 years and have had to make decisions like this before some should have been the negative choice like most of you think here and is the logical one but if i had of gone this way i would have missed out on a great life im taking on your advice and getting a good solicitor can anyone recommend one in Phetchabun area

[Harveyboy]

yes as far as the government loan the rates are far better than the norm... but still more more expensive to loan than the interest i would get if i put it in the banks there

[Harveyboy]

tks my way of thinking

Best way to look at this, you are creating/providing a modest home, for your wife (and children) - enjoy, it is great feeling

If the time does arrive when you must move on......you move on

[chiang mai]

Somewhat related:

A neighbour friend I've known for two years tells his tale of woe. He American and a long standing Thai wife now separated but on good terms, she in the US and he here in Thailand.

Five years ago he found a house he wanted to buy from a foreigner, he paid 16 mill for a very nice property. A lawyer is recommended to him and the sale is completed, he moves in and is happy for several years. Last year he takes a Thai girlfriend who goes with him to extend his visa, for the first time he is asked for a tabien bahn which he says he has. Immigration looks at said blue book and says, this is not your name (which of course it couldn't be but he doesn't know that), his girlfriend interprets the name which turns out to be the name of the lawyer.

It turns out the lawyer has transferred the house into his own name and issued my friend with a 30 year lease thus the lawyer is playing the long game. Visits to several new lawyers to discuss the problem result in fees of 600k baht which he agrees to (stage payments) and the case is filed at court. He's then told he should expect the case to be heard in about ten years time, a second lawyer confirms the timescale.

Not the sharpest guy on the block but definitely one of the nicest, he made a number of fundamental errors, not the least of which was signing documents in Thai that he couldn't read and didn't understand, he relied on and trusted the lawyer 100%. He can still live in the house and at age 73 it may well be his last one, his plans to move to another country in Asia however have had to be shelved.

Be careful out there, there's some bad people dressed up as good people who can spoil your plans.