E-cigarettes - "light up" and face years in jail

[Aladdin]

Edited June 21, 2016 by Aladdin

[Chicog]

"Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic"

Only an drug addict would claim that.

Nicotine is more toxic than cyanide.

555

"The generally negative results in animal carcinogenicity tests lead to the conclusion that nicotine itself is not a significant direct, cause of cancer in people who use tobacco products, although nicotine could possibly promote cancer once initiated. Short term nicotine use for tobacco cessation is undoubtedly much safer than persistent tobacco use."

http://www.treatobacco.net/en/page_62.php

[Sawan Chan 7]

Are the tobacco companies pulling a few strings. I thought people turn to E cig in a bid to kick the nicotine habit.

Obviously the same way it is illegal to import Swedish snuss.

However, the way I stopped was to use stuff grown near Korat. http://svensktsnus.co.th/?i=en

[humqdpf]

Apart from being a ridiculous law that makes about as much sense as the Ugandan anti-same sex (consensual) law that will get both perpetrators at least a decade each in jail, the irony is that e-cigs made their debut in thailand - long before they were even heard of in other countries. I bought a set for a smoker pal who lives in the UK but he was afraid to try it.

Why don't the authorities just tax it like everything else instead of putting non-criminal foreigners in jail - they have had long enough to figure it out. It does not matter who says it is legal or illegal when you are being thrown in jail by a cop who wants to make his tea money big time

[Sawan Chan 7]

Apart from being a ridiculous law that makes about as much sense as the Ugandan anti-same sex (consensual) law that will get both perpetrators at least a decade each in jail, the irony is that e-cigs made their debut in thailand - long before they were even heard of in other countries. I bought a set for a smoker pal who lives in the UK but he was afraid to try it.

Why don't the authorities just tax it like everything else instead of putting non-criminal foreigners in jail - they have had long enough to figure it out. It does not matter who says it is legal or illegal when you are being thrown in jail by a cop who wants to make his tea money big time

There are as stupid laws in the UK. The large pharmaceutical companies that produce nicotine chewing gum paid the government to ban chewing tobacco.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Smoking or vaping nicotine almost guarantees early death from cancer. Nicotine is cancerogenic in any form.

You mean carcinogenic, and this is not proven, despite many studies.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750028.html

• Nicotine is a teratogen (capable of causing birth defects). Other developmental toxicity or reproductive toxicity risks are unknown. The information about nicotine as a carcinogen is inconclusive.

Edited June 21, 2016 by rwdrwdrwd

[mizztraveller]

So it's ok for Hiso families to drive around drunk killing innocents and getting virtually Scott free but you light up an artifice bunger and you 5 years in the slammer.

What's wrong with this picture Thailand ?

My thoughts exactly.

[River7471]

A mentally unstable justice system!

Really! I bet you could produce a clinical study showing a correlation between various health and mind disorders associated with cigarettes which are legal in Thailand. Something that functions as a healthy surrogate and could reduce Thailands medical expenses or car accidents caused by a senior citizens who have a cigarette related stroke and kills a young person. Failing to tax and legalize electronic cigarettes is a lot like murdering Thailands own people.

[MadMuhummad]

For those who need their nicotine E-cigarettes is a much healthier way to take it rather via normal tobacco cigarettes with all the associated health problems.

Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic but just about everything else in a tobacco cigarette is. E-Cigarettes are encouraged in some countries in preference to tobacco cigarettes which kill people. But no not in Thailand, it is more important to collect tax rather than save lives.

I think you may be incorrect that nicotine is a carcinogen.

[haybilly]

Typical of the current Law Makers in Thailand. You can keep it, the place is going down the drain.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

[Howitzer]

So this law applies to everyone thais and foreigners who vape in thailand? This is important news cos many ppl that were unaware might be prosecuted.

[DrTuner]

Which laws are the basis?

Find no laws, where the smoke an e-cigarette is threatened with up to 5 years in prison ?

Also in the 5 classes Drugs Register there are no nicotine or flavorings listed.

Whoever brings his personal e-cigarette in the value of $100, commits no tax offenses?

Strange or maybe the BIB have it misinformed?

1. Tobacco Products Control Act BE2535 (1992), Section 10: No person shall be allowed to manufacture, import for sale or general distribution or advertise any goods having such an appearance as to be understood as an imitation of such tobacco products as cigarettes or cigars under the law on tobacco or of the package of the said products. Those who violate this law might face a penalty not exceeding 20,000 baht.

2. Drug Act BE2510 (1967), Section 12: No person should produce or sell modern drugs or import or order modern drugs into the Kingdom, unless he has obtained a licence from the licensing authority. Those who violate this law could face a penalty of up to five years imprisonment and a fine not exceeding 10,000 baht. Also Section 72: It shall be prohibited to produce, sell or import non-registered drugs. Those who violate this law might be imprisoned for a term not exceeding five years and be subject to a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht.

3. Customs Act BE2469 (1926), Section 27: Any person who imports or brings into the Kingdom any tax unpaid, restricted or prohibited goods, or any goods that have not duly passed through customs shall be subject to a fine of four times the value of the goods, including the relevant duty, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, or both.

Thank you for this. Since importation appears to be illegal, it means that it cannot be imported and therefore value added tax cannot be collected. Perhaps this is the tax the policewoman is talking about, since import duty is not a tax.

It also means that it cannot legally be brought into the country as part of the duty-free allowance.

Possession is illegal because it would be possession of a contraband product.

Whereas smoking it does not seem to be explicitly illegal, in order to smoke it one would have to be in possession of it, which is illegal.

The question is, if the e-juice is done from ingredients readily available and taxed right here in Thailand, what's the situation then? I'm not sure what the Thai FDA status of nicotine is, MIMS is not available for non-professionals anymore so can't check. The others are common cooking ingredients.

[Thomas Hannah]

Are the tobacco companies pulling a few strings. I thought people turn to E cig in a bid to kick the nicotine habit.

Smoking habit.E cigs have nicotine.Its not the tobacco companies.Its the thai militery goverment.Not wanting to loose taxes on cigs.Remember money number one.

[Thomas Hannah]

So this law applies to everyone thais and foreigners who vape in thailand? This is important news cos many ppl that were unaware might be prosecuted.

No.A thai would get max 500 baht fine.Farang most proberly 50.000.With the threat of being jailed.

[Thomas Hannah]

Apart from being a ridiculous law that makes about as much sense as the Ugandan anti-same sex (consensual) law that will get both perpetrators at least a decade each in jail, the irony is that e-cigs made their debut in thailand - long before they were even heard of in other countries. I bought a set for a smoker pal who lives in the UK but he was afraid to try it.

Why don't the authorities just tax it like everything else instead of putting non-criminal foreigners in jail - they have had long enough to figure it out. It does not matter who says it is legal or illegal when you are being thrown in jail by a cop who wants to make his tea money big time

Because ,we would bring are own vapour.not trusting what the thai,s are selling.

[Thomas Hannah]

Vape in the condo / house but you have to smoke ciggies when outside (in the pub for example) to get a nicotene hit, if you need one.

Yes, madness.

And what if your bags are checked at airport.

[Phaitoon]

Don't believe the FDA or WHO - both are funded hugely by big tobacco.

And big pharma!

[hyperdimension]

Many posting that e-cigs are indeed harmfull. OK, maybe so. So then the solution is to put people in prison for 5-10 years for smoking them?

That has been the problem worldwide with drugs in general, for decades. Governments need to stop trying to make anything and everything supposedly harmful illegal, especially when there is an extremely high demand for some of those things and when scientific research was not even done to assess levels of harm.

[Keesters]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

*You were sitting on the beach the other day .... sooo, a wide open space with (probably) sea breezes?

*A couple of guys .... that's an awful lot of people.

*Blowing smelly smoke all around the place .... hmmm, a couple of guys in a wide open space smoking e-cigs (which don't put out much smoke, btw - I know this for a fact)????

This picture Mr Keesters is painting is seriously messed up, and I'm calling BS. The only thing that could have created this scenario is a shisha (or whatever it's called).

**BTW, it should be noted that half or more of the liquids I see on sale are non-nicotine - I started on e-cigs with nicotine added, and then reduced until I was smoking non-nicotine liquid. AND ... tah-dah, Mr Keesters, it didn't stink up my enclosed living room.

I'm so sick and tired of the bad press that e-cigs are getting. They're an excellent aid to quitting tobacco - the only real worry is what's in the liquids. So, simple answer - produce safe liquids under licence. Do us all a favor.

(Actually, there is a second worry - that of inhaling vapor into the lungs - some issues there, I believe - but that's a story for another day.)

As you were not there you would know nothing of the situation and your comments are therefore BS. Hardly a wide open space when you're jam packed into chairs where the backs touch each other.

And little breeze as it was sunny and the vendors had put up umbrellas to shade the area but unfortunately they stopped any breeze from the sea.

A couple of guys on the crowded table next to me. It only takes one idiot to spoil it for many others. In this case it was TWO idiots. Perhaps THREE if we count you.

Blowing smelly smoke (yes it did smell, my nose told me so (I know that for a fact)

The picture you are painting is the messed up one where a small number of people can ruin many others experiences. SELFISH SELFISH. Perhaps that is you too.

And until the liquids are safe then they should perhaps be banned.

BTW I was a smoker for many years at two packets a day until I quit cold-turkey 6 years ago. No patches, no e-ciggies, no gum, no nothing just pure will power.

[ThaiWai]

So.. smoking weed is actually less of a problem than vaping if I understand correctly.

Somehow that does make sense.

(For reference: http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/marijuana-arrest.html )

[Keesters]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

And I guess you don't even Fart in Public mate eh? Not sure if you've noticed but you and I live in a country of inconsiderateness, a little vapour smell from an E Cigarette on the beach is the last of your problems, especially if you had to drive home on the Thai roads! Just because you don't particularly like something you personally don't have the right to ban it, if you want to live in your own perfect world, may I suggest buying your own island and staying put.

No I don;'t fart in public if I can help it. And that is because I am considerate of others. Farting however is a natural bodily function unlike e-cigs which are not.

And just because this is a country of inconsiderateness (your word not mine) should I not expect a change in the level of the inconsiderateness after being here 30 years.

Does not one expect the country to improve or is it to stay on the bottom rung all its time. With people like you around maybe it will.

And why put driving on Thai roads above vapour smell .. who are you to say what is more important? Never have I said I could personally ban something..where did you get that ridiculous idea from? Also never have I said anything about a perfect world but to strive for perfection even if it may not be entirely reachable is a good goal rather than staying put in the cesspool which you seem to prefer.

Thailand is my home...my country now having spent more than half my long life here. Forgive me if I would like my remaining days to be spent in a less odorous environment.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Better hope you don't sit near me on a beach then, since whilst I'm coming up to half my life here as well, our perspective differs somewhat.

Smoke I can understand, since it's damaging to others, however vapour is not.

Edited June 22, 2016 by rwdrwdrwd

[DrTuner]

In this case it was TWO idiots. Perhaps THREE if we count you.

My calculations come to one. The one who crams himself into a crowded beach and expects pristine air. Wrong place for that, wrong country mostly. Maybe on the mountain tops, when it's not the burning season.

That said, vaping does produce clouds that linger a while, they don't leave any residue or smell on surfaces like smoking does. Best done in well ventilated spaces if you want to see anything.

But I'm sure even if it was deemed to be extremely healthy, the second hand smoker crowd whose only joy in life comes from managing to restrict the freedom of others would be screaming their lungs out.

[mommysboy]

Vaping is virtually odourless. This would be obvious to anyone with any experience either using one, or being around one. Coffee (at the beach) smells more!

if someone can't accept this point, then their argument can not be cogent.

Edited June 22, 2016 by mommysboy

[Funkybillyfish]

So are we safe to vape or is It best to go back to the fags.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Funkybillyfish

[mommysboy]

So are we safe to vape or is It best to go back to the fags.

If you are American, then use the fags, they are far safer according to US authorities.

If you are British, then vape, it is 95% safer than cigarettes and are available on NHS.

If you are either and in Thailand, risk death in jail, it seems.

If you are on a Thai beach and vape, risk being berated for exhaling a harmless, and odourless vapour, by someone who has super human sensory glands.

Edited June 22, 2016 by mommysboy

[joeyg]

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/harvard-study-confirms-dangers-of-vaping-b99631238z1-361343541.html

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/vaping-linked-host-new-health-risks

[joeyg]

http://www.discountvapers.com/risks/

[DrTuner]

Well since we're sharing links, here's the obvious starting point and the right forum: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

On this matter, here's how I see what happened:

- Some one, a Thai probably, asked the "Ask Ladycops" facebook if vaping is illegal in Thailand

- The keepers of the facebook page, ladies or not, referred the question up

- To keep safe, some higher rank cop rattled every single rule he could find, most related to the late shisha ban

- The rattlings were put on the facebook page

- The Daily News picked the facebook post

- TVF picked Daily News's article

- Discussion ensued on TVF

- I got something like 20 likes on it, making me closer to 3k, which as I understand makes me a demigod around here

Summa summarum: Some police officer gave a list of rules that might apply, but in reality will very rarely be enforced as is the custom in Thailand.

[Songlaw]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.