webfact Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Jury could rewrite history of Led Zeppelin's epic 'Stairway'BRIAN MELLEY, Associated PressLOS ANGELES (AP) — A key chapter of rock 'n' roll history could be rewritten by a jury that began deliberating Wednesday over whether Led Zeppelin ripped off a riff for its epic "Stairway to Heaven."A lawyer representing the trust of a deceased songwriter criticized members of Led Zeppelin for "selective" memories and "convenient" truths in testifying about the origin of Jimmy Page's acoustic guitar opening of the 1971 rock anthem."He didn't tell you where he got the idea for the introduction," attorney Francis Malofiy said in his closing argument in federal court in Los Angeles. "It was a piece of music lifted from 'Taurus' by Randy California."Jurors deliberated for several hours Wednesday but did not reach a verdict. They're scheduled to resume Thursday.The trust for Randy Wolfe, who adopted the surname California, is seeking millions of dollars and a third of the songwriting credit for "Stairway," which it claims the band took from "Taurus," released by Wolfe's band Spirit in 1968.Led Zeppelin's lawyer, however, said the trust didn't own the copyright and the passage in question was a common descending chord sequence in the public domain.Attorney Peter Anderson also said the plaintiff failed to prove a case that should have been brought more than 40 years ago when Wolfe was alive and Page and singer Robert Plant would have had better memories."How can you wait a half century and criticize people ... 45 years later for the delay you caused?" Anderson said. "They should have sued in 1972."Page and Plant vividly recalled creating "Stairway" at a country house south of London, though their testimony was at odds with previous accounts given in interviews by band members over the years. Their recollections of Spirit, a band they opened for at their first U.S. show in 1968, were less clear.The plaintiff needs to show that Page and Plant would have had some familiarity with the work. The record that included "Taurus" was found in Page's massive collection of records and CDs, but he claimed never to have heard it.Spirit's former bassist recalled playing "Taurus" at the Denver show where Led Zeppelin opened, but there was no other evidence to support that. Page said he didn't stick around to see Spirit play that night and he denied ever seeing them in concert, despite articles in which he said he liked seeing them and they struck him on "an emotional level.""Spirit and Led Zeppelin were never on stage together, they never toured together," Anderson said. "There was not a single person that said anyone from Led Zeppelin was present when 'Taurus' was performed."Malofiy said he didn't need camera footage of Page and Plant transcribing "Taurus" to show they stole the work.The trust must also show the works are substantially similar. That is a tricky task because the copyright is based on the sheet music filed with the Library of Congress.Jurors were not played the "Taurus" recording, which contains a section that sounds very similar to the instantly recognizable start of "Stairway." Instead, they were played guitar and piano renditions by musicians on both sides of the case. Not surprisingly, the plaintiff's version on guitar sounded more like "Stairway" than the defense version on piano.Defense experts said the songs shared little in common other than chord sequence that dates back 300 years. Experts for the trust said there were significant other likenesses including the use of arpeggios, similar note combinations, pitch and note durations, which Malofiy said was "more than coincidence."The defense said jurors probably won't need to decide damages, but reminded them of the $868,000 in net profits that a record executive attributed to the song during the past five years. Anderson also mentioned that only a fraction of the 8-minute song is in question, which could further trim any award. That would be a fraction of the millions Malofiy mentioned, though he didn't specify a figure that the jury should award.The case is not the first time Led Zeppelin has been accused of swiping another artist's work. The lawsuit lists at least six other songs in which the band has reached settlements over songwriting credits for works including "Whole Lotta Love," ''The Lemon Song," and "Dazed and Confused."____-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Who cares who wrote the song, it is a classic and will always be a Led Zeppelin song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i claudius Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 It does sound a bit like the opening of stairway , but then its a common enough riff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIJoe Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 "My Sweet Lord" (George Harrison) used a common riff too, but lost his case against the writers of "He's So Fine." One of the defense witnesses said the riff in Stairway was similar to My Funny Valentine! Yeah, I always get those two confused - not! As for who cares, how much do you think that song has made in royalties? Talking large sums at stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What a ridicoulos waste of a courts time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What a ridicoulos waste of a courts time. I agree, but the families are hoping to make a lot of money from this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanrchase Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Led Zeppelin will be guilty because they have money. Poor people rarely get sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCustom69 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Bullshit lawsuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansell Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Supposedly it has made 800 million dollars since 1972 to 2008. The suers are asking for $40 million. I asked the same question a week ago...Why didn't the original band members sue forty four years ago when it would have all been relevant, instead of waiting till after most of the people had died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Supposedly it has made 800 million dollars since 1972 to 2008. The suers are asking for $40 million. I asked the same question a week ago...Why didn't the original band members sue forty four years ago when it would have all been relevant, instead of waiting till after most of the people had died? Good point. I'd thought it was just the grasping familes pursuing this law suit. Are any of the Spirit members that wrote the chords in contention still alive and part of this law suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 "A lawyer representing the trust of a deceased songwriter criticized members of Led Zeppelin for "selective" memories and "convenient" truths in testifying about the origin of Jimmy Page's acoustic guitar opening of the 1971 rock anthem." After most likely 40 million bottles of scotch and a few metric tons of drugs my memory would not be all that good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 As I posted in the original thread - easily solved. If the decision is that the opening chords were 'lifted' from the Spirit song, then don't award the families a penny, but rule that the writer must be given a credit on future recordings. Too late for previous recordings, but most 'fans' will hear the ruling - and it will go down in history with a credit for the Spirit songwriter that inspired the opening chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanrchase Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Supposedly it has made 800 million dollars since 1972 to 2008. The suers are asking for $40 million. I asked the same question a week ago...Why didn't the original band members sue forty four years ago when it would have all been relevant, instead of waiting till after most of the people had died? My understanding is that the copyright for the song was bought by a company that pays for copyrights with the sole intention to sue. It is a business these days. Sad world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivo Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 It does have enough in common to question, but sorry, it is simply too late. Should have been handled decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanrchase Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 It does have enough in common to question, but sorry, it is simply too late. Should have been handled decades ago. Enough in common? The original is instrumental, the intro is similar but not the same. Expect a flood of lawsuits if Led Zeppelin lose. Louis Armstrong, What A Wonderful World, not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 LOVE Led Zep, but this is a total rip off of the Taurus riff. Zeppelin has a LONG history of "borrowing" from other artists... http://www.musictimes.com/articles/6250/20140520/7-songs-other-than-stairway-to-heaven-that-led-zeppelin-stole.htm http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/10/10/led-zeppelin-greatest-song-thieves-in-rock-history-nominated-for-songwriters-hall-of-fame http://turnmeondeadman.com/dazed-and-confused-by-jake-holmes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanrchase Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 LOVE Led Zep, but this is a total rip off of the Taurus riff. Zeppelin has a LONG history of "borrowing" from other artists... http://www.musictimes.com/articles/6250/20140520/7-songs-other-than-stairway-to-heaven-that-led-zeppelin-stole.htm http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/10/10/led-zeppelin-greatest-song-thieves-in-rock-history-nominated-for-songwriters-hall-of-fame http://turnmeondeadman.com/dazed-and-confused-by-jake-holmes/ I am a skeptic as well. Can find similarities amongst numerous musical arrangements from present day to several centuries ago. Luckily composers are long dead so pointless to sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnychow Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) It does have enough in common to question, but sorry, it is simply too late. Should have been handled decades ago.Enough in common? The original is instrumental, the intro is similar but not the same. Expect a flood of lawsuits if Led Zeppelin lose. Louis Armstrong, What A Wonderful World, not.Go an listen to the verse of "Let it Grow" Eric Clapton did, its the same progression as both Taraus and StairwayAll musicians copy what went before, thats how they learn music and an instrument, so the question is what Taraus "inspired/copied from ?...the progression isnt an orginal...see the link below for a dicussion on 17th century piece of music which sounds similar This claim is by some scumbag lawyers trying to make money http://www.guitarplayer.com/artists/1013/did-this-17th-century-work-influence-stairway-to-heaven/58547 Edited June 23, 2016 by Bunnychow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnychow Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 LOVE Led Zep, but this is a total rip off of the Taurus riff. Zeppelin has a LONG history of "borrowing" from other artists... http://www.musictimes.com/articles/6250/20140520/7-songs-other-than-stairway-to-heaven-that-led-zeppelin-stole.htm http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/10/10/led-zeppelin-greatest-song-thieves-in-rock-history-nominated-for-songwriters-hall-of-fame http://turnmeondeadman.com/dazed-and-confused-by-jake-holmes/ I am a skeptic as well. Can find similarities amongst numerous musical arrangements from present day to several centuries ago. Luckily composers are long dead so pointless to sue. So is the composer of the Taurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Supposedly it has made 800 million dollars since 1972 to 2008. The suers are asking for $40 million. I asked the same question a week ago...Why didn't the original band members sue forty four years ago when it would have all been relevant, instead of waiting till after most of the people had died? Wolfe drowned in 1997, and his estate made the accusation against Zeppelin in 2014, ahead of a remastered re-release of the band's music. Have a listen. Similar, but it's not the same. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-led-zeppelin-taurus-sound-alike-songs-20160413-snap-htmlstory.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 "My Sweet Lord" (George Harrison) used a common riff too, but lost his case against the writers of "He's So Fine." One of the defense witnesses said the riff in Stairway was similar to My Funny Valentine! Yeah, I always get those two confused - not! As for who cares, how much do you think that song has made in royalties? Talking large sums at stake. Come on! That really was a rip-off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanrchase Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Country and western artists will be next, they all sound the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 There is no new music and there are no new riffs. All music is a variation of music that has come before.. The man never complained while he was alive. I suspect parasitic family members trying to squeeze money out of something they had nothing to do with. I doubt this unknown writer earned enough money in his music career to leave them any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozyjon Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Please don't Sue me, Maria, Isabel, Cathy is ok but not Sue because i'm a boy. E|--------da-----da-----da-----da-----------------------------------------------|B|------da-----da-------da-------da-------da---da---da----------------------|G|----da---------da-------da-------da-------da-------da-da-da-da---------|D|--da-------da-------da-------da---------------da-----------------------------|A|---------------------------------------------------da-da-da-da-----------------|E|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnychow Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Please don't Sue me, Maria, Isabel, Cathy is ok but not Sue because i'm a boy. E|--------da-----da-----da-----da-----------------------------------------------| B|------da-----da-------da-------da-------da---da---da----------------------| G|----da---------da-------da-------da-------da-------da-da-da-da---------| D|--da-------da-------da-------da---------------da-----------------------------| A|---------------------------------------------------da-da-da-da-----------------| E|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| That looks wrong anyway or your tab transcrption is crap...Led Zep won the case and rightly so http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/led-zeppelin-wins-stairway-heaven-905866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andaman Al Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Yup! The Jury have cleared Led Zep of plagiarism. Get over it everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Yup! The Jury have cleared Led Zep of plagiarism. Get over it everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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