So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes.  The UK already had free trade deals within the unbelievably expensive, wasteful EU.

 

On top of this, poor voters had seen wages stagnate/drop/disappear - as cheaper labour came from even poorer EU countries.

 

Of course other countries and financial institutions are expressing concern about Brexit!  It damages their financial position - even more so if the EU collapses.

You've contracted yourself 3 times in one post - not bad going. 

[roo860]

You've contracted yourself 3 times in one post - not bad going. 

That's a contradiction.

[NanLaew]

On 9/8/2016 at 2:10 PM, AlexRich said:

 

Free access to the EU, or we pack up in the UK and set up in the EU ... more diplomatic, but essentially that was the message.   

 

 

Priceless. With the BULK of their EU investments already in the UK, the Japanese will simply up sticks and relocate en masse elsewhere in Europe at huge financial loss? Yup, makes perfectly good business sense to... you maybe.

 

I don't think 'cut off nose to spite face' is a Japanese precept?

[NanLaew]

15 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

... What will you say if the EU doesn't collapse, and just evolves over time?

 

What will you say if the post-Brexit UK doesn't implode, bankrupt, crash & burn, and just evolves over time?

[autanic]

On 4 September 2016 at 6:49 AM, GuestHouse said:

 

The economic forecasts were made for Brexit (which has not yet happened).

 

The impact of the vote was an immediate devaluation of the pound and share values (Both of which were climbing in the days immediately before the referendum in the expectation of a remain result).

 

Not one Brexit supporter can tell us what Brexit will actually be or when it will happen.

 

So let's come back to the economic forecasts for 'Brexit' if and when 'Brexit' happens.

I fail to see the difficulty in grasping the concept that Brexit, mean Britains exit from the European Union and forging ahead with a vision of our own, which is yet to be decided. Hence the fact we have not triggered article 50.

 

Let us decided what we want, then we will ask Europe to give it to us, when they say no (and they will), we get Basty Nigel on them.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Priceless. With the BULK of their EU investments already in the UK, the Japanese will simply up sticks and relocate en masse elsewhere in Europe at huge financial loss? Yup, makes perfectly good business sense to... you maybe.

 

I don't think 'cut off nose to spite face' is a Japanese precept?

 

In what way is that "cutting off your nose ..."? The reason for setting up in the UK was to serve the entire EU market, and they were 'courted' by the UK for their investment. If that's no longer on the table what would you expect them to do? And Lloyds insurance market have said the same, and others ... they're not trying to punish the UK, but the rationale for being in the UK is no longer there. 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

What will you say if the post-Brexit UK doesn't implode, bankrupt, crash & burn, and just evolves over time?

 

It's pretty much what I would expect ... it will chug along, but at a lower pace of growth than it would have done. More Little England than Great Britain. More loss than gain.

 

It's you that has the apocalyptic vision for the EU ... I very much doubt you'll see it.

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

It's pretty much what I would expect ... it will chug along, but at a lower pace of growth than it would have done. More Little England than Great Britain. More loss than gain.

 

It's you that has the apocalyptic vision for the EU ... I very much doubt you'll see it.

 

Apocalyptic view of the EU? Moi? You are confusing me with some of your other detractors.

 

As far as anyone can predict, the EU without UK "will chug along, but at a lower pace of growth than it would have done..." with the Germans and French, both stricken with the same extreme right immigration dilemmas that the UK will handily be bypassing, as they vie to be the top EU dog without the UK spoiling their dictates. "More loss than gain."

[Linzz]

Which one?

[i claudius]

20 minutes ago, Linzz said:

Which one?

 

20 minutes ago, Linzz said:

Which one?

You took the words from out of my mouth

[cumgranosalum]

The Brostricheer...

 

 

 

 

 

[i claudius]

21 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

The Brostricheer...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh ,i thought it was that Scotch guy , Ben Doon, waiting for his friend Phil Mcaverty

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Apocalyptic view of the EU? Moi? You are confusing me with some of your other detractors.

 

As far as anyone can predict, the EU without UK "will chug along, but at a lower pace of growth than it would have done..." with the Germans and French, both stricken with the same extreme right immigration dilemmas that the UK will handily be bypassing, as they vie to be the top EU dog without the UK spoiling their dictates. "More loss than gain."

 

I doubt it. The EU has issues but not insurmountable ones. The EU is more than capable of adapting and getting out of it's issues ... as most countries and blocs have done in the past. As for immigration, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see some political movement on open doors. Time will tell.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, I do believe all they are very concerned about the possibility of the EU collapsing.

 

Their best scenario (assuming the UK actually leaves) is that it remains in place with a largely reduced budget - but despite the poor countries dragging it down, it remains in place.

 

Edit - But I do agree that they would all prefer that the UK remains in the EU, as it suits their financial interests.  Let's face it, the UK leaving may well be a negative for the UK - but its even more of a negative for the EU who are losing one of the few contributors to their way OTT expenditure and encourages the populations of other countries to get 'pissed off' with the uncontrolled immigration etc.

 

But perhaps its only the UK, and the population of other wealthy countries feel entirely differently.  Seems a bit odd to me, and doesn't seem to be supported by news stories coming from other wealthy EU countries, but only time will tell.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

You've contracted yourself 3 times in one post - not bad going. 

I'm sure you're right - but I'm missing it.

 

An explanation would be appreciated as to the contradictions in my post.

[Rimmer]

An off topic jpg about Africa has been removed also a reply to it

[Ace of Pop]

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[cumgranosalum]

2 things Brexiteers held dear - immigration and sovereignty - sovereignty was a complete load of nonsense - we will actually lose more control trying to trade with Europe from the outside.

Furthermore in UK, sovereignty is held by parliament not by referendums which are advisory.

 

Immigration and of course 350 billion or whatever for the NHS... well that was just patently nonsense too

 

Immigrants and the NHS

 

 

[sandyf]

On 9/10/2016 at 5:26 AM, NanLaew said:

Priceless. With the BULK of their EU investments already in the UK, the Japanese will simply up sticks and relocate en masse elsewhere in Europe at huge financial loss? Yup, makes perfectly good business sense to... you maybe.

 

I don't think 'cut off nose to spite face' is a Japanese precept?

Anyone really. Profits from the UK Japanese operations are generated in GBP and for some months prior to the referendum the Japanese investors were complaining about the reduction in profit due to the falling pound. They would be a great deal happier if those profits had been returned in Euros.

In Yen terms the pound has dropped from 190 to 136 and the Euro from 137 to 115, a 29% drop on the GBP as opposed to 16% for the Euro.

 

With no firm plan in place it is not surprising the Japanese are extremely nervous over future returns.

[cumgranosalum]

On September 10, 2016 at 5:32 AM, NanLaew said:

 

What will you say if the post-Brexit UK doesn't implode, bankrupt, crash & burn, and just evolves over time?

that is a non-argument, it applies equally  both ways....

Edited September 12, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

THere can be no doubt that Brexit is a mess as far as the Uk goes - any idea of "going in alone" in this day and age is just schoolboy fantasy.

 

The Brexiteers kicked thew machine because they thought that's how you fix something now we all have to pay the price..

 

 

UK economy to hit near standstill as Brexit vote hurts investment – BCC

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

 

UK economy to hit near standstill as Brexit vote hurts investment – BCC

 

 

 

So no deep recession like you Remainians forecast

 

 

Last time I looked the sky hadn't fallen in either...................

 

 

Get over it.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

So no deep recession like you Remainians forecast

 

 

Last time I looked the sky hadn't fallen in either...................

 

 

Get over it.

 

We're doing well ... inside the EU! 

 

[Jip99]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

We're doing well ... inside the EU! 

 

 

 

 

 

................ and we will do well  - possibly even better  -  outside the EU.

[cumgranosalum]

On September 10, 2016 at 5:26 AM, NanLaew said:

Priceless. With the BULK of their EU investments already in the UK, the Japanese will simply up sticks and relocate en masse elsewhere in Europe at huge financial loss? Yup, makes perfectly good business sense to... you maybe.

 

I don't think 'cut off nose to spite face' is a Japanese precept?

The UK motor industry has had a tremendous revival over the last decade....Brexit could put a massive spanner in the works....

“Even with registrations of new cars in the EU at a 17 year low in 2012, 51% of UK car exports went to the rest of the EU. Yes, more than the rest of the world put together. Throughout the 2008-2012 period in total, 60.72% of British car exports were to the other EU 26 Member States.” (JW - euroblog)

Nissan - like most Japanese companies are in UK so they have a foothold in the EU - they (Nissan) manufacture 30% of all vehicles in the UK.

if they can't export freely to the 500 million plus people in Europe, do you seriously think that the 65 million market in the UK will support that kind of production?

Of course not - machinery can be exported to new or existing sites in Europe and they can write off or sell the real estate.........

between 55 and 60% of ALL British vehicles built go to the EU alone....the next biggest customer is Russia - which as a reliable customer speaks for itself.

Meanwhile Toyota and Honda are not doing so well and 80% of their production goes to EU - what do you think tariffs will do to that?

According to the FT - “There is as much as a 75 per cent chance that Toyota and Honda will eventually pull out of the UK if the country’s vote to leave the EU leads to a levy on cars made in Britain,

Ford too are likely to cut jobs.

Most manufacturers already have plant around the EU outside UK so moving is NOT an impossibility at all. Nissan for instance are partnered with Renault - so they already have a strong foothold on the continent.

 ...and this is what GM said immediately after the referendum.

 “General Motors' European arm Opel said it was important to its U.K.-based Vauxhall division for Britain to remain part of the European Economic Area to allow the free movement of goods and people within Europe. The European Economic Area is open to EU member states and non-EU countries from the European Free Trade Association, which includes Switzerland, Norway and Iceland.”

 

So much for restricting movement of labour? - bang goes the “immigration” theory.

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

30 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

So no deep recession like you Remainians forecast

 

 

Last time I looked the sky hadn't fallen in either...................

 

 

Get over it.

"get over it" - is now the standard comment from Brexiteers - that and denial both of the effects of their actions and due democratic process.

 

It is the right of everyone in a democracy to have and voice and opinion.. an opinion BTW is something based on rational thought - not that apparent amongst the Brexit camp

[Khun Han]

Britain wants continued unfettered access to EU car markets and Germany wants continued unfettered access to the British car market. One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out where Europe-wide trade in cars is going to go (hint: nowhere, it's going to remain unfettered).

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Britain wants continued unfettered access to EU car markets and Germany wants continued unfettered access to the British car market. One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out where Europe-wide trade in cars is going to go (hint: nowhere, it's going to remain unfettered).

 

I do hope so. But at what price? You won't get it for free ... the interests of the EU bloc will take precedence over the trade value.

 

[brexiteer]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

It would be constructive if the final terms of the UK's exit from the EU was put to the vote at a General Election ... parliamentary democracy at it's finest. 

 

Again, you're not describing a football match ... this game is reversible. As you may well find out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reversible?  

 

 

That will NEVER happen, democracy has already shown itself...

 

Dream on.

[AlexRich]

Just now, brexiteer said:

 

 

Reversible?  

 

 

That will NEVER happen, democracy has already shown itself...

 

Dream on.

 

Don't be so surprised ... many a referendum has been overturned in the EU ... a lot can happen in 3 years my friend. 

 

 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Don't be so surprised ... many a referendum has been overturned in the EU ... a lot can happen in 3 years my friend. 

 

 

 

 

I am prepared to have a small token wager Alex, if you are