So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Craig krup]

I voted leave. I had no choice. 

 

1) The Oxford University Migration Observatory reports make it clear that the average EU migrant earns less than £21,000 a year, with recent migrants earning even less. The utter bilge that is produced by University College London is pap, and it's a disgrace that the media pretend otherwise. The UK makes massive transfers in cash and kind to the indigenous working class, and by introducing people who have the characteristics of that class - without increasing the number of high earners who pay for everything - we've introduced a massive demographic time bomb. As the recent migrants have kids and claim tax credits we'll be faced with booming public spending and no way to pay for it. 

 

2) We have to be able to control our borders. A polity, a nation, is a people. If the German population swapped geographic location with the Argentines, then Germany would be in South America and Argentina would be in Saxony, Bavaria and Prussia. Nations are imagined communities, and the world over people make sacrifices because of this. In high migration/low trust countries welfare is always low. Read Goodhart. Europe has engaged in an experiment which will blow up in their collective faces. We're creating American-style "hyphenated" people and hoping we can have Swedish style spending. It won't work. 

 

3) We have to have democracy. I don't care if you elect Maoists - okay, as an investor I'd prefer you didn't - but if we're governed by the weighted preferences of 28 sets of politicians we might or might not be governed well, but we definitely will be slaves. Well looked after, perhaps, but slaves nonetheless. 

 

4) We don't need the European Court of Justice inventing itself as Strasbourg 2.0. We're British. Anything not prohibited is allowed. We don't have the state telling us what we can do, the state merely tells us what we can't do. Don't impose judicial rule on a free people. We have a sovereign legislature and courts that impose the law on everyone equally. We don't need and can't tolerate the rule of judges, we need the rule of law: if you think the two are the same thing you haven't thought about it. We can't have the Human Rights Act making oriental potentates out of British judges - allowing them to decide what they'd like to happen and then hanging their decision on the HRA - and it's even worse to have this kind of autocracy from the ECJ. Take the "Charter of Fundamental Rights" and wang it. We've had enough. 

 

5) We don't need to kill any more Asian and African kids. The CAP has been one vast exercise in subsidising small French farmers so that they can play peasant, and as a result children in poor countries die. The US Farm Bill will continue to kill them, as will the EU, but at least we won't be involved. 

 

6) We don't need companies that don't trade outside the EU being afflicted with EU regulations. 

 

I could go on. We're well out of it. I love the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and the rest. They've been the best people I've met in the last fifteen years. But the point where Gordon Brown's boneheaded welfare state met the EU was the place where Britain couldn't stay and expect anything other than complete destruction. 

[SgtRock]

Not much I would disagree with in your post.

 

A couple of points on your last paragraph.

 

6 hours ago, Craig krup said:

I could go on. We're well out of it. I love the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and the rest. They've been the best people I've met in the last fifteen years. But the point where Gordon Brown's boneheaded welfare state met the EU was the place where Britain couldn't stay and expect anything other than complete destruction. 

 

1. It still amazes me the amount of so called educated people that cannot differentiate between the EU and Europe. From everyday people in the street, journalists, business people right through to Politicians. Those same people are the ones who are very quick to label anyone who wanted to leave the EU as educationally challenged. Yeah, right.

 

2 To blame Gordon Brown for the fiasco of the Welfare State is being unfair on Gordon Brown. Yes, the Labour Party have a lot to answer for on Welfare. The real damage was caused between 1975 and 1985, mostly under Thatcher. Prior to 1975 the  Welfare State in the UK was miniscule in comparison to the bohemoth that it is today. Remember it was Thatchers Government who introduced free housing for pregnant teenagers along with a weekly remittance ( not including all the associated costs ) It has continued to grow, like out of control weeds ever since. Let us also lay the blame at the door of the vast SJW Army who somehow think * Free * is free. Too <deleted> dense to understand that nothing is * Free * and has to be paid for somewhere along the line.

 

It might be a good idea for the sitting Government to touch base with the 3 Million Brits that are currently elsewhere in the world, outside the EU, with a questionnaire as to why they left the UK. That might just provide a platform to formulate a plan for driving the UK forward when the divorce from the EU is finalised.

[SgtRock]

Two articles that are worth a read

 

From Der Spiegel

 

Quote

At a summit in Bratislava this week, the EU wants to set the course for its future without Britain. One important issue is likely to be ignored by European leaders: The fact that Brexit is going to be expensive for Europe, especially for Germany.

 

The interactive net contributors / net receivers chart is an eye opener. I was not aware the France pays approx half of what the UK pays to the EU

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-to-cost-european-union-billions-a-1111724.html

 

From the WSJ

 

Quote

Germany Discovers Some Home Truths About Brexit

 

Berlin is starting to admit that it needs Britain more than Merkel first let on.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-discovers-some-home-truths-about-brexit-1473875500#livefyre-comment

 

Hardly bastions of Pro-Brexit.

[i claudius]

As to the fact Thatcher gave free houses to girls who were not married and had babies ,lets not forget that in those days it was not "the norm" to pop out kids just to get freebies , but it was done to help unforunate girls , now its a bloomin life choice .

anyway as to Brexit , i see in the papers today ,Honda is making Britain its export hub for car production , so what did brexit bring , GOOD NEWS  and it keeps on giving .

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

As to the fact Thatcher gave free houses to girls who were not married and had babies ,lets not forget that in those days it was not "the norm" to pop out kids just to get freebies , but it was done to help unforunate girls , now its a bloomin life choice .

 

Have to disagree. I know many between the years of 82 & 84 it was / became a life choice. I had just returned to the UK and could not believe what I was seeing. This was people that I had grown up with although they were younger than me.

 

Sadly, I have to include younger family members/ relatives in that category.

 

The goal in life, for many, at that time was to leave school, get pregnant, get a house and what was known then as a Monday Book.

[rockingrobin]

41 minutes ago, i claudius said:

As to the fact Thatcher gave free houses to girls who were not married and had babies ,lets not forget that in those days it was not "the norm" to pop out kids just to get freebies , but it was done to help unforunate girls , now its a bloomin life choice .

anyway as to Brexit , i see in the papers today ,Honda is making Britain its export hub for car production , so what did brexit bring , GOOD NEWS  and it keeps on giving .

Honda is also moving production of CR-V compact from uk to canada

[SgtRock]

This kind of puts a spanner in the works of The Japanese governments letter to the UK on Brexit.

 

Quote

Built in Britain — the car that could conquer America: Brexit boost as Honda makes UK its 'global hub' 

 

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3791684/Built-Britain-car-conquer-America-Brexit-boost-Honda-makes-UK-global-hub.html

 

Rockingrobin

 

From the same link.

 

Quote

Its CR-V off-roader will be phased out by 2018 as Civic production cranks up.
 

 

It also  appear that Honda have also destroyed another myth

 

Quote

Honda also stressed that being outside the EU did not create any technical issues on car specifications – it exports to 70 markets and already manages 548 variants.
 

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by SgtRock

[Craig krup]

6 hours ago, SgtRock said:

2 To blame Gordon Brown for the fiasco of the Welfare State is being unfair on Gordon Brown. 

 

Brown put the whole country on welfare. His tax credit fiasco was supposed to cost a £1bn, and currently costs over £30bn. Total working age welfare is £120bn. Hardly any of it is Jobseeker's Allowance. If you want to really scare yourself watch Panorama "Don't Cap My Benefits" on Youtube, and pull the cursor through to about 43 minutes, and watch the numbers on the computer screen when the single parent is being told what she'll get of she works 16 hours a week on the minimum wage. Wages £500 a month. Tax paid zero. Total welfare receipts £3,000. 

 

We've offered this to half a billion people, and we've completely removed the incentives for full-time skilled work for nearly all of the indigenous population as well. If you've got a couple of kids and a partner 24 hours a week on the minimum wage nets you what £40,000 would. 

 

Brown was a moron. IQ of 160 plus and no idea at all. 

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, Craig krup said:

I voted leave. I had no choice. 

 

1) The Oxford University Migration Observatory reports make it clear that the average EU migrant earns less than £21,000 a year, with recent migrants earning even less. The utter bilge that is produced by University College London is pap, and it's a disgrace that the media pretend otherwise. The UK makes massive transfers in cash and kind to the indigenous working class, and by introducing people who have the characteristics of that class - without increasing the number of high earners who pay for everything - we've introduced a massive demographic time bomb. As the recent migrants have kids and claim tax credits we'll be faced with booming public spending and no way to pay for it. 

 

Apologies for deleting most of your post, but the emboldened part interested me as those who have never had children but paid tax throughout their working lives, also "pay for everything".

 

Surely the answer is to get rid of the NHS and free education - as both are subsidies (paid for by the wealthy and childless) for those not earning enough to pay privately?

 

Obviously this will quite quickly result in only the high earners having educated children and the rest of the population having to accept that they and their children will have to accept any poorly paid work - if they survive their health problems.  Of course this is likely to result in the high earners having problems finding people educated enough to do the necessary, but less well-paid jobs that keep our highly technological society running.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but too many of those who don't pay higher rate tax forget that they have often been subsidised by the highly paid and childless......

 

On the other hand,  I agree that benefits should only be available to the indigenous population.

[SgtRock]

42 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

Brown put the whole country on welfare. His tax credit fiasco was supposed to cost a £1bn, and currently costs over £30bn. Total working age welfare is £120bn. Hardly any of it is Jobseeker's Allowance. If you want to really scare yourself watch Panorama "Don't Cap My Benefits" on Youtube, and pull the cursor through to about 43 minutes, and watch the numbers on the computer screen when the single parent is being told what she'll get of she works 16 hours a week on the minimum wage. Wages £500 a month. Tax paid zero. Total welfare receipts £3,000. 

 

We've offered this to half a billion people, and we've completely removed the incentives for full-time skilled work for nearly all of the indigenous population as well. If you've got a couple of kids and a partner 24 hours a week on the minimum wage nets you what £40,000 would. 

 

Brown was a moron. IQ of 160 plus and no idea at all. 

 

Do not misunderstand me. I am not siding with Brown.

 

But I believe that you are wrong to pin the blame on Brown. Consecutive sitting Governments are to blame, not individuals.

 

And I fully agree that the UK Welfare System is an utter shambles.

 

It is like all great idea's, welfare being no different. they get hijacked by all and sundry and end up snowballing into an abomination, exactly the same as the NHS. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

Do not misunderstand me. I am not siding with Brown.

 

But I believe that you are wrong to pin the blame on Brown. Consecutive sitting Governments are to blame, not individuals.

 

And I fully agree that the UK Welfare System is an utter shambles.

 

It is like all great idea's, welfare being no different. they get hijacked by all and sundry and end up snowballing into an abomination, exactly the same as the NHS. 

So where exactly do you draw the line?

 

Getting rid of free education and the NHS would certainly improve the UK's budget enormously.

 

But this is off-topic -- perhaps a new topic should be started about the welfare system available to Brits?

 

I think we all agree though that the welfare system should not be available to foreigners until they have lived and worked in the UK for at least five years/have brought their families with them and have obviously built a life in the UK?

[i claudius]

6 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Have to disagree. I know many between the years of 82 & 84 it was / became a life choice. I had just returned to the UK and could not believe what I was seeing. This was people that I had grown up with although they were younger than me.

 

Sadly, I have to include younger family members/ relatives in that category.

 

The goal in life, for many, at that time was to leave school, get pregnant, get a house and what was known then as a Monday Book.

 

I must have lived in a different area , where i was it was still looked down on to have kids if you were single and not in a partnership (i am not talking about divorced people here)

[SgtRock]

29 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

I must have lived in a different area , where i was it was still looked down on to have kids if you were single and not in a partnership (i am not talking about divorced people here)

 

Sure, It may well have had regional variations, in fact, I am pretty sure that it would have.

 

It possibly stuck out in my mind as I had just returned to the UK. 

 

It is however, a true and honest assessment of what my eyes saw and my ears heard.

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

Brown put the whole country on welfare. His tax credit fiasco was supposed to cost a £1bn, and currently costs over £30bn. Total working age welfare is £120bn. Hardly any of it is Jobseeker's Allowance. If you want to really scare yourself watch Panorama "Don't Cap My Benefits" on Youtube, and pull the cursor through to about 43 minutes, and watch the numbers on the computer screen when the single parent is being told what she'll get of she works 16 hours a week on the minimum wage. Wages £500 a month. Tax paid zero. Total welfare receipts £3,000. 

 

We've offered this to half a billion people, and we've completely removed the incentives for full-time skilled work for nearly all of the indigenous population as well. If you've got a couple of kids and a partner 24 hours a week on the minimum wage nets you what £40,000 would. 

 

Brown was a moron. IQ of 160 plus and no idea at all. 

You believe that???

 

If he genuinely had an IQ of 160 plus, surely  he would have been involved in science/maths etc. - certainly not politics!

[dick dasterdly]

7 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Have to disagree. I know many between the years of 82 & 84 it was / became a life choice. I had just returned to the UK and could not believe what I was seeing. This was people that I had gr even own up with although they were younger than me.

 

Sadly, I have to include younger family members/ relatives in that category.

 

The goal in life, for many, at that time was to leave school, get pregnant, get a house and what was known then as a Monday Book.

I've obviously been away too long - as according to your post many leave school to get pregnant, house etc.

 

Having left the UK in '06 I didn't meet any of these - but I'm sure there are a few, although nowhere near as many as you are implying.

 

Who the hell would want the responsibility of a child just to leave home and get their own flat - knowing that they will then miss out on the joys of being a young, single female?  It makes no sense.

[Craig krup]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You believe that???

 

If he genuinely had an IQ of 160 plus, surely  he would have been involved in science/maths etc. - certainly not politics!

 

He went to a special school for highly intelligent kids. He scores highly on psychometric tests and is an idiot: not uncommon.  

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

He went to a special school for highly intelligent kids. He scores highly on psychometric tests and is an idiot: not uncommon.  

I'm not denying that he was intelligent (i.e. over the average 100) - but 160?!  

 

Not a chance, that's genius level and geniuses apply their intelligence towards many things (mainly scientific I think?) - but politics isn't on that list.....

Edited September 16, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[SgtRock]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've obviously been away too long - as according to your post many leave school to get pregnant, house etc.

 

Having left the UK in '06 I didn't meet any of these - but I'm sure there are a few, although nowhere near as many as you are implying.

 

Who the hell would want the responsibility of a child just to leave home and get their own flat - knowing that they will then miss out on the joys of being a young, single female?  It makes no sense.

 

Perhaps you should check the dates

 

8 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Have to disagree. I know many between the years of 82 & 84 it was / became a life choice. I had just returned to the UK and could not believe what I was seeing

 

Unemployment was running at circa 3 Million. Which may have been a factor.

 

Early 80's was the start of the unmarried mothers phenomenon.

[Craig krup]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm not denying that he was intelligent (i.e. over the average 100) - but 160?!  

 

Not a chance, that's genius level and geniuses apply their intelligence towards many things (mainly scientific I think?) - but politics isn't on that list.....

 

I actually heard 168, but that's on the British Mensa scale. The scales vary. I scored 152 on this scale, and I know how thick I am. 

 

From the BBC - " After sitting an IQ test, he was sent to Kirkcaldy High School at the age of 10, where he and fellow members of the "e-stream" were taught in separate classes as part of an experiment in academic fast-tracking. Brown sat his Highers, the Scottish equivalent of A-levels, two years early and was named the "Dux", or leading scholar of his year. But he appears to have resented being separated from his age group and angry that some of his e-stream friends had been pushed to breaking point in pursuit of academic success."

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

I actually heard 168, but that's on the British Mensa scale. The scales vary. I scored 152 on this scale, and I know how thick I am. 

 

From the BBC - " After sitting an IQ test, he was sent to Kirkcaldy High School at the age of 10, where he and fellow members of the "e-stream" were taught in separate classes as part of an experiment in academic fast-tracking. Brown sat his Highers, the Scottish equivalent of A-levels, two years early and was named the "Dux", or leading scholar of his year. But he appears to have resented being separated from his age group and angry that some of his e-stream friends had been pushed to breaking point in pursuit of academic success."

I'm not denying that he was intelligent - only that he wasn't a genius!

 

Are there any scales that classify as someone having an IQ of 160 being anything other than a genius?

 

Admittedly, I'm being pedantic about this - as geniuses are very, very rare.  Becoming a politician is an unusual route for a genuine (IQ) genius, as they tend to be interested in more cerebral activities?

Edited September 17, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Craig krup]

7 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm not denying that he was intelligent - only that he wasn't a genius!

 

Are there any scales that classify as someone having an IQ of 160 being anything other than a genius?

 

Admittedly, I'm being pedantic about this - as geniuses are very, very rare.  Becoming a politician is an unusual route for a genuine (IQ) genius, as they tend to be interested in more cerebral activities?

 

Bill Clinton was way up - Rhodes scholar. 

[KonaRain]

Someone said on bbc, from Europe, that the Union might proceed nicely, without reluctant UK always dragging its heels, kicking and screaming..
Something like that,
not trying to start anything.
Aloha

[KonaRain]

I just remembed a young girl who voted to Ieave, woke up and said,
Jeez Louise we gotta leave?
Maybe article 50 will be delayed?

[dick dasterdly]

So far, the brexit supporters have gained nothing other than the satisfaction of being proven right that the promised 'armageddon' (forecast by politicians and 'experts') didn't happen - and that May has promised that their votes to leave the EU will be respected - and that the UK will leave the EU.

 

What will happen in the future, no-one knows - but meanwhile the EU is scrabbling to ensure that it doesn't disintegrate.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, KonaRain said:

Someone said on bbc, from Europe, that the Union might proceed nicely, without reluctant UK always dragging its heels, kicking and screaming..
Something like that,
not trying to start anything.
Aloha

Someone else said from somewhere else that the U might collapse in several years time and the UK, having left the EU will be nicely set up to do very well.

 

Like you I have no references or links and like your post, mine is worthless but it is MY opinion.

[SgtRock]

I think we can all agree that UKIP was instrumental in getting the EU Referendum on the table.

 

UKIP have been labelled Racist, Xenophobes and every other phobe under the sun.

 

Whatever way you voted, I am sure you with join me in enjoying the irony of this little gem from the BBC

 

Quote

Immigration raid during UKIP dinner at Indian restaurant

 

Quote

"Watching our chef running away into the night, his apron flapping in the wind, was a surreal moment.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-37395593

[AlexRich]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/17/brexit-not-time-to-move-on-time-to-fight-eu-referendum

[Khun Han]

Like I said, you're either buying into a European superstate, as kindly explained by Juncker, or you're not. All the other arguments about brexit are just dots, crosses and commas.

[AlexRich]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/19/carmakers-look-to-move-research-roles-to-eastern-europe-after-brexit-vote

 

[billd766]

15 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/17/brexit-not-time-to-move-on-time-to-fight-eu-referendum

 

Just another Bremainer with only a single vote of his own putting his own words into other peoples mouths.

 

In April 2015 the Guardian had a daily circulation of only 178,758. Hardly representative of the UK as a whole.

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/national-newspaper-circulations-may-2015-mail-sunday-overtakes-sun-sunday-times-remains-biggest-growing/