So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[AlexRich]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/switzerland-votes-for-compromise-to-preserve-relations-with-eu

 

Can you have your cake and eat it? 

[Khun Han]

As per Jip99's link above:

 

"The west’s leading economic thinktank has backtracked on its warning that the UK would suffer instant damage from a Brexit vote ....."

[Rc2702]

The rehabilitation is beginning a back track will occur. Merkels under pressure. the poles Czechs and a few others are starting a fight. the eu heading for collapse w/out britain. The brits are letting it all happen by stalling the gates will not close and within 4-6 months all will back to normal and the £ will take a sharp upturn and Merkel will be required to refer to Britain with the real moniker; Great Britain. Warning over back to biz, Murky!!

[sandyf]

On 9/21/2016 at 9:59 AM, SgtRock said:

 

From your BBC link

 

 

And as I pointed out in post 1841. The moneymen are way ahead of the Politicians.

 

Yes you are correct. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens within the EU when Merkel and Hollande get the boot next year.

 

The PM played a blinder by delaying A50.

That is one interpretation, the truth of the matter is she has no choice. She must wait for the courts decision, the legal challenge will be heard in October and the supreme court is on standby to hear the government appeal by the end of the year.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

After all the personal insults and condescension dished out by remainers in these discussions, one of them is complaining about being civil! Let's see how you remainers behave for a while first .

 

by the way, I think most of the remainers (particularly Alex) would disagree with you that they have accepted brexit.

 

Well if true, Alex should wake up because things aren't going to change and keeping the fight going between the two camps is counter productive - I sense of some other posters that the desire to continue the fight is strong, just because it's a fight and not because of the cause (which has now gone away).

[cumgranosalum]

Brexiteers faith in the" money men" seems to have been misplaced as they back EU against "Little England"....

 

"

Executives tell Bloomberg’s Gavin Finch and John Detrixhe they expect France or Germany to prevail in the tussle once Brexit is underway and are making plans to cope.

 

While it might take years for the transitions to happen, jobs and operations central to the clearing function will be among the first moved to the continent once the U.K. triggers its withdrawal from the European Union, one person said.

It would mark a defeat for Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, who pledged this month to seek to protect London’s status as the epicenter for European trading in interest-rate swaps, accounting for about 39 percent of the global market. :

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-21/global-banks-said-to-plan-for-loss-of-euro-clearing-after-brexit

 

 

Britain has never in 3000 years not been in a Union with several outher countries and has always traded closely with Europe - thinking in this modern age that we can "go it alone" is just schoolboy fantasy.

 

Trading blocks are here to stay - USA, EU, China, India and even ASEAN all realise that together is better.......so what makes "Little englanders" think that fantasy will overcome reality?

[cumgranosalum]

28 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Well if true, Alex should wake up because things aren't going to change and keeping the fight going between the two camps is counter productive - I sense of some other posters that the desire to continue the fight is strong, just because it's a fight and not because of the cause (which has now gone away).

Called democracy ....a person's right to protest and argue against anything they see as wrong.

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

Brexiteers faith in the" money men" seems to have been misplaced as they back EU against "Little England"....

 

"

Executives tell Bloomberg’s Gavin Finch and John Detrixhe they expect France or Germany to prevail in the tussle once Brexit is underway and are making plans to cope.

 

While it might take years for the transitions to happen, jobs and operations central to the clearing function will be among the first moved to the continent once the U.K. triggers its withdrawal from the European Union, one person said.

It would mark a defeat for Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, who pledged this month to seek to protect London’s status as the epicenter for European trading in interest-rate swaps, accounting for about 39 percent of the global market. :

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-21/global-banks-said-to-plan-for-loss-of-euro-clearing-after-brexit

 

 

Britain has never in 3000 years not been in a Union with several outher countries and has always traded closely with Europe - thinking in this modern age that we can "go it alone" is just schoolboy fantasy.

 

Trading blocks are here to stay - USA, EU, China, India and even ASEAN all realise that together is better.......so what makes "Little englanders" think that fantasy will overcome reality?

 

Project Fear just rolls on and on, doesn't it?

 

"one person said"....."asked not to be identified because the details are private"  Well.....not so private that Bloomberg needed to be told .

 

You just couldn't make this stuff up, except that people working tirelessly for Project Fear make it up day in , day out and feed it to gullible media. Please get back to us when just one of these threatened disasters actually happens. And please understand that your track record so far on these types of predictions means we won't be holding our breath .

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

Called democracy ....a person's right to protest and argue against anything they see as wrong.

 

Democracy is all well and good, at some points and for some things. But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible. The vote was the vote and it was democratic, it's been had and the vote was to leave, the country and its population demand it. The productive and sensible thing to do is to look forward and try to be constructive and positive for the future, not constantly looking backwards and crying that you lost and trying to figure out ways to turn the vote around, that in itself is hardly a democratic approach. 

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Project Fear just rolls on and on, doesn't it?

 

"one person said"....."asked not to be identified because the details are private"  Well.....not so private that Bloomberg needed to be told .

 

You just couldn't make this stuff up, except that people working tirelessly for Project Fear make it up day in , day out and feed it to gullible media. Please get back to us when just one of these threatened disasters actually happens. And please understand that your track record so far on these types of predictions means we won't be holding our breath .

 

Instead of calling it Project Fear, which makes it sound as though it's part of an organised push to undermine the Brexit vote, why not just view it as what it probably really is, their personal opinion or view and say you disagree with it or not?

[KonaRain]

The Brits need to be in the same place as Switzerland, having the cake and eating it.

[cumgranosalum]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Democracy is all well and good, at some points and for some things. But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible. The vote was the vote and it was democratic, it's been had and the vote was to leave, the country and its population demand it. The productive and sensible thing to do is to look forward and try to be constructive and positive for the future, not constantly looking backwards and crying that you lost and trying to figure out ways to turn the vote around, that in itself is hardly a democratic approach. 

" But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible." - you can say that again - anyone who thinks a referendum is democracy is totally deluded.

[cumgranosalum]

20 minutes ago, KonaRain said:

The Brits need to be in the same place as Switzerland, having the cake and eating it.

both now and before the referendum this completely facile argument was rolled out by the BRexiteers - it just underliv=neds the immense lack of understanding of the situation that appears to dominate the Brexit mindset.

 

PS - you realise that Switzerland is a member of Schengen AND pays in to the EU?

Edited September 23, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

" But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible." - you can say that again - anyone who thinks a referendum is democracy is totally deluded.

 

Nonsense, all eligible voters had a chance to vote, the majority won, that's a democracy in action. And if it helps you any, I voted Remain, but that was before and today is after, we lost so move on.

[i claudius]

What did Brexit supporters gain ? now let me think

 

well for a start we can lord it over the remainers ,

just couldnt resist lol.

[AlexRich]

45 minutes ago, KonaRain said:

The Brits need to be in the same place as Switzerland, having the cake and eating it.

 

The problem is that the Swiss have discovered that they can't have the cake and eat it ... the "free movement" cake remains uneaten. You can access the EU market without restrictions if you accept free movement, other than that you are looking at tariffs and restrictions ... that's what the Swiss have discovered.

 

Little England is dreaming if it thinks it will get both, it won't.  

 

 

[AlexRich]

We lost, so move on?

 

What does that mean? If the Republicans lose the election by a close margin they will all become Democrats in the interests of unity? 

 

Amusing to read the "winners" proclaim how wonderful things are in the UK post Brexit vote ... as if you can determine the consequences of Brexit before the terms of Brexit is negotiated and agreed ... if it turns out to be a poor deal don't you think people might change their view? 

 

This has not even begun ... roll on Article 50 and let the reality of Brexit reveal itself.

 

[SgtRock]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is one interpretation, the truth of the matter is she has no choice. She must wait for the courts decision, the legal challenge will be heard in October and the supreme court is on standby to hear the government appeal by the end of the year.

 

She has no choice ?

 

I beg to differ.

 

She could invoke A 50 and start the 2 year process and let the legal challenge roll on during the 2 year exit period.

 

It is rather bizarre that all the pre vote claims of impending doom, that are now being backtracked on were made on the assumption that Cameron would invoke A 50 the day after the referendum. Cannot have it both ways.

 

The UK PM has said that there will be no U-Turn on Brexit. The EU ( Who want the UK out so that they can speed up the process of integration into a single EU Superstate, as per Junckers address to the Union speech last week. ) want the UK out soonest. Which way do you think the Court is going to judge ?

 

What do you think is going to happen in the EZ when the current totally ineffective euro 1.9 Trillion QE by the ECB comes to an end in March 2017 ? A bit of research will highlight that many economists had stated before the QE began in April 2015 that it was last chance saloon for the euro / EZ. I do not think I need to labour the point on the financial predicament that all EZ Countries are in with only real exception being Germany.

 

Further in 2017, Hollande will get the boot. Merkel, who many say is actually the glue that is holding the EU together will get the boot, if she is not forced out before Christmas. Throw in a spectacular in either France or Germany in the next year and the big time. Sadly, it is going to happen.

 

The V4 are making making serious noises about the EU, they are only interested in the money that they are receiving from the EU, when that dry's up OR the EU force migrant quota's on them, the V4 will become a totally different animal.

 

Greece . Nothing more to be said.

 

The ongoing migrant crisis that has switched to Italy but is largely being totally ignored by the MSM.

 

The EU is a basket case waiting to explode. The EU's answer is more EU. Recipe for disaster as most Countries do not want more EU, they want less.

 

A quick question for you, one that everyone else avoids like a dose of syphilis.

 

The only mantra that I am hearing is Free Trade, Single Market etc. If this is the most important aspect of the EU.

 

Why are all the Councils and committees not scrapped and superceded by a single trade commission which would cost peanuts ?

 

Edit to add:

 

If you want an uncanny parallel from recent history to where the EU is heading. Research the Role and reasons for Slovenia's part in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia.

Edited September 23, 2016 by SgtRock
Addition

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The problem is that the Swiss have discovered that they can't have the cake and eat it ... the "free movement" cake remains uneaten. You can access the EU market without restrictions if you accept free movement, other than that you are looking at tariffs and restrictions ... that's what the Swiss have discovered.

 

Little England is dreaming if it thinks it will get both, it won't.  

 

 

The problem is that the Swiss have discovered that they can't have the cake and eat it ... the "free movement" cake remains uneaten. You can access the EU market without restrictions if you accept free movement, other than that you are looking at tariffs and restrictions ... that's what the Swiss have discovered.

 

Little England is dreaming if it thinks it will get both, it wont.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by vogie
My post was attributed to someone else.

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The problem is that the Swiss have discovered that they can't have the cake and eat it ... the "free movement" cake remains uneaten. You can access the EU market without restrictions if you accept free movement, other than that you are looking at tariffs and restrictions ... that's what the Swiss have discovered.

 

Little England is dreaming if it thinks it will get both, it won't.  

 

 

 

The whole world is the cake, the EU merely a slice, and a slice that was going a little stale

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

 

The whole world is the cake, the EU merely a slice, and a slice that was going a little stale

 

And the biggest trading market for the UK ... by far.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

And the biggest trading market for the UK ... by far.

 

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

And the biggest trading market for the UK ... by far.

 

My advice for today, 'keep off the Depression Cake' ?

[AlexRich]

Just now, vogie said:

 

 

My advice for today, 'keep off the Depression Cake' ?

 

Sure, and you keep going to your "special needs" classes.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

" But using it as blanket get out for every whim and as a justification for every action, is not credible." - you can say that again - anyone who thinks a referendum is democracy is totally deluded.

Its more democratic than general elections.

 

The referendum was a simple yes/no vote - and whichever had the larger vote 'won'.

[rockingrobin]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Its more democratic than general elections.

 

The referendum was a simple yes/no vote - and whichever had the larger vote 'won'.

Majority of tyranny is also democratic

[SgtRock]

13 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Majority of tyranny is also democratic

 

People democratically vote for tyranny ?

 

Who knew

 

The depths that some remoaners are now plumbing is getting beyond ridiculous. 

 

Talking of tyranny. Is trying to force quota's of unwanted migrants on Countries not the very definition of tyranny 

Edited September 23, 2016 by SgtRock

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

We lost, so move on?

 

What does that mean? If the Republicans lose the election by a close margin they will all become Democrats in the interests of unity? 

 

Amusing to read the "winners" proclaim how wonderful things are in the UK post Brexit vote ... as if you can determine the consequences of Brexit before the terms of Brexit is negotiated and agreed ... if it turns out to be a poor deal don't you think people might change their view? 

 

This has not even begun ... roll on Article 50 and let the reality of Brexit reveal itself.

 

 

How asinine, Brexit is not a political party, it is the result of a democratic vote of the people of the UK, don't tell me you think you're a Remainer for life!!! You sound like the chap who's campaigning for the return of betamax tapes and refuses to change over to digital, come whatever!

 

"roll on Article 50 and let the reality of Brexit reveal itself". - and if it turns out to be not good what will you do, say I told you so!

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

How asinine, Brexit is not a political party, it is the result of a democratic vote of the people of the UK, don't tell me you think you're a Remainer for life!!! You sound like the chap who's campaigning for the return of betamax tapes and refuses to change over to digital, come whatever!

 

"roll on Article 50 and let the reality of Brexit reveal itself". - and if it turns out to be not good what will you do, say I told you so!

 

Betamax was the superior technology, we ended up with VHS!

 

What is Brexit and what are the economic implications? Everyone can have an opinion but we do not know in fact what this will end up like, but you talk as if we do?

 

There have been plenty of referendums before that have been overturned. There's nothing final about it. This process hasn't even begun ... and in democratic processes votes are continuous ... there will be another one soon enough.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Betamax was the superior technology, we ended up with VHS!

 

What is Brexit and what are the economic implications? Everyone can have an opinion but we do not know in fact what this will end up like, but you talk as if we do?

 

There have been plenty of referendums before that have been overturned. There's nothing final about it. This process hasn't even begun ... and in democratic processes votes are continuous ... there will be another one soon enough.

 

 

I think you're missing the point - NOBODY knows the outcome of brexit, there are only opinions.  And of course, nobody minds opinions -  unless they're stated as facts, or are rude about anyone that disagrees with their view.

 

Being too lazy to do the necessary research, would you mind reminding me of the many UK referendums that have been overturned?  You obviously have the information at your fingertips in view of the emboldened part of your post.

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I think you're missing the point - NOBODY knows the outcome of brexit, there are only opinions.  And of course, nobody minds opinions -  unless they're stated as facts, or are rude about anyone that disagrees with their view.

 

Being too lazy to do the necessary research, would you mind reminding me of the many UK referendums that have been overturned?  You obviously have the information at your fingertips in view of the emboldened part of your post.

 

I was thinking of the one in Ireland, that was overturned by another referendum. In the context of the EU. 

 

As for research, you can do as much of that as you like to support whatever your view is ... there's plenty that refutes the number of Jews that died in the holocaust ... however dubious that may be you can find anything that supports your particular viewpoint. And if Brexit five years down the road turns out not to have been a great success, there will be plenty who state it would have been so much worse in the EU. 

 

As as for stating opinions as facts, do you have an example?