So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Khun Han]

55 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

It's the fact that you and especially Rock, can't count, that's what gained that poster a like, not the name calling, your accountancy and economics skills are virtually zero..

 

Here is the relevant post, in full, made by SheungWan:

 

"Slogging away on this thread with Brexit ignoramuses who can't count but hey-ho. "

 

SheungWan's post has only two assertations, that brexiters on this thread:

 

are "ignoramuses" .....derogatory? Check. Labelling? Check.

"can't count" ..............derogatory? Check. Labelling? Check.

 

chiang mai 'liked' this derogatory, labelling post? Check.

chiang mai repeated one of the derogatory, labellting assertations contained in SheungWan's post? Check.

 

Case closed.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

In this paper, we investigate the fiscal impact of immigration on the UK economy, with a focus on the period since 1995. We provide estimates for the overall immigrant population for the period between 1995 and 2012, and for more recent immigrants who arrived since 2000, distinguishing between immigrants from European versus non-European countries. Overall, our findings indicate that EEA immigrants have made a positive fiscal contribution, even during periods when the UK was running budget deficits. This positive contribution is particularly noticeable for more recent immigrants that arrived since 2000 in particular from EEA countries

 

http://www.cream-migration.org/publ_uploads/CDP_22_13.pdf

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24813467

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11255425/How-much-do-immigrants-really-claim-in-benefits.html

 

I don't think too many people dispute the fact that immigration is not only good for the UK's economy, but also that we actually need it. The argument is that we need better control over it. No sane, stable country should allow uncontrolled immigration, even from only a particular continent (and most countries in the world don't). There are too many downsides and problems from it. Sure, those downsides and problems aren't going to completely disappear with controlled immigration. But they can be kept to manageable levels. The key word is control.

[AlexRich]

On 29 September 2016 at 6:51 AM, stander said:

 

 

Same old nonsense from the Brexit brigade.

 

No one knows what the economic implications of Brexit will be ... in my opinion the UK will be a damn sight poorer ... as stated earlier, we won't know the full damage until after Article 50 and the actual exit. What Brexit means? Reference to how it affects the UK economically and socially. Not a reference to the fact that we are no longer on the EU. That doesn't need explaining.

 

Happy to see financial services and banks suffer? There's a lot of ordinary people who will lose their jobs, the high paid bonus lot will just go somewhere else, as will the 40% tax take that the government collects. A cause for celebration? I beg to differ. 

 

We already have the financial body estimating 70,000 job losses, car manufacturers up in arms, many companies will move HQ, investment stalled, on and on ... as already stated, you won't see it in 100 days ... we'll be watching this play out over the next 3 to 5 years. 2017 will be interesting.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Here is the relevant post, in full, made by SheungWan:

 

"Slogging away on this thread with Brexit ignoramuses who can't count but hey-ho. "

 

SheungWan's post has only two assertations, that brexiters on this thread:

 

are "ignoramuses" .....derogatory? Check. Labelling? Check.

"can't count" ..............derogatory? Check. Labelling? Check.

 

chiang mai 'liked' this derogatory, labelling post? Check.

chiang mai repeated one of the derogatory, labellting assertations contained in SheungWan's post? Check.

 

Case closed.

 

Woof, woof woof!

[Khun Han]

Oh dear.....off Alex is off on one again with his wild speculation presented as evidence.

 

"Jesus will return"

 

But you said he'd return in 1844.

 

"Err.....nobody said that. You're making it up. He will return. You stupid, ignorant people just wait and see!"

Edited October 1, 2016 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

Head of Europe's largest business conglomerate backtracks on brexit warnings:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/4529f98c-4786-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

 

"Ahead of the June 23 EU referendum, the German company was among the most outspoken multinational groups to express fears about a Brexit.

It told its 14,000 UK employees the higher costs and uncertainties of a British EU exit “could make the UK a less attractive place to do business and may become a factor when Siemens is considering future investment here”."

 

“We’re here to stay,” Joe Kaeser, Siemens chief executive, said in London on Monday. “The UK matters with or without being a member of the EU.”

 

“We never said the UK will be in bad shape if it goes out of the EU,” he told reporters in London. “We just said Europe would miss a massive opportunity if the UK went out.”

[elliss]

German central bank will collapse , soon  ,  followed  by the resignation , of  Madam Hitler .asap 

[AlexRich]

May fears Britain could face embarrassment .... 

 

Source: Business Insider on MSN

"Yet, despite this very clear negotiation position, Brexit ministers like Boris Johnson continue to insist that Britain will be able to cherry-pick from the EU's "four freedoms."

Wolfgang Schauble, Germany's finance minister, said last week Johnson ought to read the Lisbon Treaty and understand the "certain connection" between the single market and free movement of people.

It's for this reason that it's easy to understand why May fears Britain could face humiliation when it eventually sits down with EU leaders and tries to negotiate a Brexit which suits both sides.

If the two sides fail to reach a compromise, May will be left in a lose-lose situation.

She will either have to deliver a complete departure from the EU including exit from the single market, dubbed a "hard-Brexit," or an agreement which sees Britain continue with the free movement of people. Both of these deals are unpopular with the British public".

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Oh dear.....off Alex is off on one again with his wild speculation presented as evidence.

 

"Jesus will return"

 

But you said he'd return in 1844.

 

"Err.....nobody said that. You're making it up. He will return. You stupid, ignorant people just wait and see!"

 

Hypocrite alert! At it again ... framing an opinion using your own words ... making it up again?

 

 

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, autanic said:

 

I notice you have said this a number of times.

 

Brexit means the Exit and dissolution of EU institutions, laws, treaties and directive that govern the UK from Brussels.

 

Just in case you do not know what Brexit is or what the leave campaign want. The rest of the arguments like what we negotiate at the bargaining table is really window dressing. Brexit means we will leave the EU one way or another.  Alex you have had 100 days to get used to this, I know it has been difficult for you to come to terms with, but there you have it.

Your explanation is a little short in reality. We are all aware the referendum called for an end to the EU treaties but where to once the treaties have been terminated.

Will the UK become a member of EFTA with with full access to the single market and associated free movements and the EU regulations it would entail? The window dressing as you call it could make the UK a second class EU member, of course not being a full EU member is what the leave camp wanted.

Or will it be complete separation from the EU and the single market? The latter would solve the EU migration problem overnight if the Japanese took their factories to Eastern Europe. Great window dressing, no EU and no jobs.

Maybe you can explain in a bit more detail what brexit actually means.

[AlexRich]

Martin Wolf: Financial Times

"Nothing has changed my view that the UK is making a huge economic and strategic blunder. The country is going to be meaner and poorer. David Cameron will go down as one of the worst prime ministers in UK history. But the halfway houses between membership of the EU and hard Brexit are uninhabitable. So what now has to be done is to move to the miserable new dispensation as smoothly as possible. 

The UK has chosen a largely illusory autonomy over EU membership. That has consequences. It will have to accept this grim reality and move as quickly as it can to whatever the future holds".

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your explanation is a little short in reality. We are all aware the referendum called for an end to the EU treaties but where to once the treaties have been terminated.

Will the UK become a member of EFTA with with full access to the single market and associated free movements and the EU regulations it would entail? The window dressing as you call it could make the UK a second class EU member, of course not being a full EU member is what the leave camp wanted.

Or will it be complete separation from the EU and the single market? The latter would solve the EU migration problem overnight if the Japanese took their factories to Eastern Europe. Great window dressing, no EU and no jobs.

Maybe you can explain in a bit more detail what brexit actually means.

 

Er, no ... he can't. 

 

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

May fears Britain could face embarrassment .... 

 

Source: Business Insider on MSN

"Yet, despite this very clear negotiation position, Brexit ministers like Boris Johnson continue to insist that Britain will be able to cherry-pick from the EU's "four freedoms."

Wolfgang Schauble, Germany's finance minister, said last week Johnson ought to read the Lisbon Treaty and understand the "certain connection" between the single market and free movement of people.

It's for this reason that it's easy to understand why May fears Britain could face humiliation when it eventually sits down with EU leaders and tries to negotiate a Brexit which suits both sides.

If the two sides fail to reach a compromise, May will be left in a lose-lose situation.

She will either have to deliver a complete departure from the EU including exit from the single market, dubbed a "hard-Brexit," or an agreement which sees Britain continue with the free movement of people. Both of these deals are unpopular with the British public".

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/remoaners-are-determined-to-find-bad-news/

 

"Wolfgang Schaeuble, the German finance minister, came to London to tell us that “out means out”, and that we’d be treated like any third country; now he says that George Osborne told him to use those words, and that a special deal will be found."

 

http://www.cityam.com/244720/chancellor-george-osborne-pushed-german-government-into

 

"George Osborne asked Germany to stress the “irreversible” nature of a Brexit vote in the build up to last month's referendum, German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble has said.

Schauble warned in mid-June that “In is in. Out is out” when it comes to Single Market access, but he has now admitted he did following a request from the Treasury."

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1390808/wolfgang-schauble-germany-spills-the-beans-on-chancellor-admitting-threats-were-only-made-because-osborne-asked-them-to/

 

"Schäuble told a German newspaper that he only threatened to exclude the UK from the single market because the British Chancellor asked him to.

But yesterday Mr Schäuble appeared to distance himself from that, as Angela Merkel began to suggest a compromise deal with Britain over Brexit may be doable."

 

 

[Khun Han]

Martin Wolf, confirmed agent of Project Fear:

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/martin-wolf-from-brexit-to-donald-trump-how-populist-politics-is-taking-hold-1.2684670

[Khun Han]

23 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Er, no ... he can't. 

 

 

At least he's veiling his personal insults at the moment. It's some sort of improvement, I suppose.

[AlexRich]

19 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

At least he's veiling his personal insults at the moment. It's some sort of improvement, I suppose.

 

hypocrite alert! 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

Hypocrite alert! At it again ... framing an opinion using your own words ... making it up again?

 

 

 

Eh???

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/seventhdayadventist_1.shtml

 

I fear that the remainers are eventually going to have their own Great Disappointment. Though why any Brit is so desperate for bad news for the UK, as some of the remainers on here are, The Lord only knows!

 

On the other hand, I suspect remainers will be predicting The Great Collapse for many years to come .

[autanic]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Your explanation is a little short in reality. We are all aware the referendum called for an end to the EU treaties but where to once the treaties have been terminated.

Will the UK become a member of EFTA with with full access to the single market and associated free movements and the EU regulations it would entail? The window dressing as you call it could make the UK a second class EU member, of course not being a full EU member is what the leave camp wanted.

Or will it be complete separation from the EU and the single market? The latter would solve the EU migration problem overnight if the Japanese took their factories to Eastern Europe. Great window dressing, no EU and no jobs.

Maybe you can explain in a bit more detail what brexit actually means.

 

Theres that stick again. It is European Nations that keep bringing up the single market, like its the only game in town. We shall see !

[autanic]

13 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just a veiled 'brexiters are ignorant racists' post. Where's chiang mai to put him straight in no uncertain terms on forum politeness?

 

Wanting to control over who enters the Country, does not make one a racist.

 

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And the USA's economy has been a basket case ever since. It makes the UK's debt problems look like a few flies spoiling a picnic in comparison.

Deflection much? Last time I looked, the WHOLE CIVILIZED WORLD's economy is in the same basket... and the Chinaman has the wheel. When a faceless Chinese spokesman can simply say that they are going to buy as much iron ore as before, without any proof or agreements in place that they are going to actually do as much and the price of iron ore on the market spikes around 17% within a few hours just shows how fragile the global economy is and how clueless our elected financial mandarins are. There's an awful lot of unused iron ore still accumulating at Chinese ports and there's a lot of people with privileged access to information making a killing on it... and I don't mean your average speculator, market trader or hedge fund manager. They are also-rans in this race.

 

I reckon your flies on sh!t analogy is more appropriate in when comparing Brexit to the bigger, global picture. Europe sneezes but nobody's gonna catch a cold. But if China coughs...

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Not about US banks or the US. 

 

It is about DB and the end of the euro and EZ if it goes belly up.

 

And the implications that will have on possible Brexit negotiations.

Oh my... there it is again.

....Whoosh!!!!!

[NanLaew]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/brexit-begins-theresa-may-takes-axe-to-eu-laws/

 

As Magnus Magnusson used to say, "I've started so I'll finish..."

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Not about US banks or the US. 

 

It is about DB and the end of the euro and EZ if it goes belly up.

 

And the implications that will have on possible Brexit negotiations.

 

Apparently if DB does go tits up, it's curtains for all life as we know it. From the BBC earlier today "It is, though, certainly in the "too big to fail" camp. One leading banking analyst says that if Deutsche were allowed to go, it would make the demise of Lehman Brothers and the after-effects of that look like a mere ripple. "

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/brexit-begins-theresa-may-takes-axe-to-eu-laws/

 

As Magnus Magnusson used to say, "I've started so I'll finish..."

here is the more significant quote

 

“EU law will be transposed into domestic law, wherever practical, on exit day,” he will say.  “It will be for elected politicians here to make the changes to reflect the outcome of our negotiation and our exit. That is what people voted for: power and authority residing once again with the sovereign institutions of our own country.”

 

so on exit it could be possible for non EU citizens to maintain their freedom of  movement to uk but freedom of movement for uk nationals curtailed

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Oh my... there it is again.

....Whoosh!!!!!

 

Whoosh right enough

 

15 hours ago, SgtRock said:

You seriously think that if DB goes down the pan it will not be Brexit related ?

 

It will be saved one way or another for now, until it can be broken up into separate entities.

 

If it goes down the pan now so will the euro and the EZ.

 

Oh my... Another one that ignores reality and hurls insults.

 

Denial and obfuscation hides nothing. Throwing insults merely highlights your own intellectual deficit.

 

DB will be saved one way or another, for the time being at least, as its demise will kill the euro and EZ.

 

Exactly the same as when Brown sold off  UK Gold to prop up Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

[SgtRock]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Apparently if DB does go tits up, it's curtains for all life as we know it. From the BBC earlier today "It is, though, certainly in the "too big to fail" camp. One leading banking analyst says that if Deutsche were allowed to go, it would make the demise of Lehman Brothers and the after-effects of that look like a mere ripple. "

 

How bizarre

 

I pointed this out to you yesterday, and all you could do was throw insults.

 

15 hours ago, SgtRock said:

You seriously think that if DB goes down the pan it will not be Brexit related ?

 

It will be saved one way or another for now, until it can be broken up into separate entities.

 

If it goes down the pan now so will the euro and the EZ.

 

I have highlighted the  relevant part for you 

[SgtRock]

For all those that can do nothing except spout garbage that Brexit was all about immigration and racism.

 

Wishing to have controlled immigration is not racist and immigration levels have been a big problem in the UK for many, many years.

 

Quote

The diaries, Campbell’s fifth volume and available from Thursday, record Blair’s pollster Philip Gould raising immigration as a key factor in loss of support for Labour as early as 2004.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/alastair-campbell-new-labour-tony-blair-immigration-brexit

 

As early as 2004 Blair was warned ? How can that be ? The liberal dafties will have us believe that the UK is / was a Multi - Kulti paradise.

 

That is what happens when official figures and reality are polar opposites.

 

A random survey should not be the yardstick to measure immigration.

[happy Joe]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Oh my... there it is again.

....Whoosh!!!!!

 

He made us a beautiful demonstration of ignorance by predicting the collapse of Deuche Bank, causing the Euro in its fall and the end of the EU as a result. Just that !

 

But in reality, these alarmist words were a financial trap to make a huge gain in some hours at the expense of naive who listened to these forecasts.

 

Read about the excellent article in the financial newspaper "Les Echos" that details the operation. With the essential translated for Dummies   :

 

Deutsche Bank lost 9% in early trading. Then things calmed down with the internal distribution of a letter written by CEO John Cryan, who is wanted very reassuring. Goldman Sachs analysts have also rushed to the aid of the institution citing a possible remedy to the ECB. At the end of the quarter, some analysts have also suggested the possibility of redemption of short positions by security. At the very end of the meeting, AFP relayed a report that an agreement could be reached in the United States for a reduced amount to $ 5.4 billion. The title has erased all its losses and even ended up sharply, to + 6.39%.

 

http://investir.lesechos.fr/marches/actualites/cac-40-petyrole-deutsche-bank-renault-airbus-group-la-seance-de-bourse-du-vendredi-30-septembre-1582886.php

 

The final proof that the spectacular forecastsl of these people have absolutely no value. That's also why most members have wisely abandoned this discussion, just like me after this message. 

[SgtRock]

6 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

 

He made us a beautiful demonstration of ignorance by predicting the collapse of Deuche Bank, causing the Euro in its fall and the end of the EU as a result. Just that !

 

But in reality, these alarmist words were a financial trap to make a huge gain in some hours at the expense of naive who listened to these forecasts.

 

Read about the excellent article in the financial newspaper "Les Echos" that details the operation. With the essential translated for Dummies   :

 

Deutsche Bank lost 9% in early trading. Then things calmed down with the internal distribution of a letter written by CEO John Cryan, who is wanted very reassuring. Goldman Sachs analysts have also rushed to the aid of the institution citing a possible remedy to the ECB. At the end of the quarter, some analysts have also suggested the possibility of redemption of short positions by security. At the very end of the meeting, AFP relayed a report that an agreement could be reached in the United States for a reduced amount to $ 5.4 billion. The title has erased all its losses and even ended up sharply, to + 6.39%.

 

http://investir.lesechos.fr/marches/actualites/cac-40-petyrole-deutsche-bank-renault-airbus-group-la-seance-de-bourse-du-vendredi-30-septembre-1582886.php

 

The final proof that the spectacular forecastsl of these people have absolutely no value. That's also why most members have wisely abandoned this discussion, just like me after this message. 

 

You should have read NanLaew's next post before hitting the keyboard

 

38 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Apparently if DB does go tits up, it's curtains for all life as we know it. From the BBC earlier today "It is, though, certainly in the "too big to fail" camp. One leading banking analyst says that if Deutsche were allowed to go, it would make the demise of Lehman Brothers and the after-effects of that look like a mere ripple. "

 

It would have saved you posting garbage and looking looking rather foolish.

[SgtRock]

The CBI, remember them. The vocal opponents of Brexit and predictor of immediate doom and gloom.

 

Their latest business survey reveals:

 

Quote

Firms expect surge in economic activity amid calls for Government to outline clear Brexit strategy

 

Quote

A new study shows that all sectors expect strong growth in the next three months

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/firms-expect-surge-in-economic-activity-amid-calls-for-government-to-outline-clear-brexit-strategy-a7340821.html