Calls for referendums in Scotland and Northern Ireland after Brexit vote

[sd44]

I am Scottish. Sturgeon is an embarrassment. It was a uk vote. What's the point of gaining independence then being ruled by Brussels

[MJP]

Damien McBride has been sounding off like a fringe preppers YouTube channel for a long time now, nothing to do with Brexit, until now. Can't say I disagree with him.

Edited June 26, 2016 by MJP

[bkkcanuck8]

When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.

Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.

I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.

And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.

The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?

Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-

" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.

people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stock-up-on-canned-food-for-stock-market-crash-warns-former-gordon-brown-adviser-10469509.html

The 2008 crash was not avoided - just delayed... at least in the US... so yes, something like this could trigger it.

[Thaiwine]

When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.

Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.

I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.

And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.

The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?

Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-

" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.

people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stock-up-on-canned-food-for-stock-market-crash-warns-former-gordon-brown-adviser-10469509.html

I just went off to find this video it gives the treasury report of expected gdp down turn of .1%

still a funny video

[phrodan]

I am Scottish. Sturgeon is an embarrassment. It was a uk vote. What's the point of gaining independence then being ruled by Brussels

I am also Scottish.

What's the point of Scotland being ruled by right wing English Tory toff nutters?

That really is embarrassing.

[phrodan]

When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.

Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.

I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.

And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.

The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?

Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-

" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.

people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stock-up-on-canned-food-for-stock-market-crash-warns-former-gordon-brown-adviser-10469509.html

If it's that bad then parliament are going to have to step in and overturn the result.

[mommysboy]

Central to Scottish Independence is the issue of EU membership. That seems odd! Why is that?

Anyway, has it crossed anyone's mind that the EU doesn't want Scotland. Look at it from their point of view. One troublemaker is causing all sorts of problems, so why would they want another one- even worse? And one that can't/won't pay its way.

[Naam]

When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.

for the record: nobody has forced or is forcing any EU member country to adopt the €UR. your comment demonstrates how "well" informed individual BRexiteers are.

presently 10 out of 28 member countries use their national currency including the [not so] United Kingdom.

[RuamRudy]

Central to Scottish Independence is the issue of EU membership. That seems odd! Why is that?

Anyway, has it crossed anyone's mind that the EU doesn't want Scotland. Look at it from their point of view. One troublemaker is causing all sorts of problems, so why would they want another one- even worse? And one that can't/won't pay its way.

Troublemaker? We have demonstrated quite amply that we want to be part of the EU. We are not the troublemakers.

Why would we not be able to pay our way? Our GDP per head is par with the average for the EU.

Why would we not pay our way? Do we have form in this regard?

[Thaiwine]

When Scotland realises they would be forced to take the Euro, there would be the same result as last time..45% and proud. But this time i think Scotland should wait until the smoke clears and we see whats on offer.

Don't be so sure of that - the euro is now a better bet than sterling.

I cannot believe how many pop-up "experts," can't get it through their heads this is a war-time proportioned structural shock to the British economy.

And we haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet.

The 2008 crash was posted at about 7-8% crash, so how bad have the experts predicted this coming crash to be?

Damian McBride who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was prime minister said the following :-

" “We were close enough in 2008 (if the bank bailout hadn't worked),” he said. “and what's coming is on 20 times that scale”.

people can of course just scoff at this warning but he would have informationon about economic matters that us plebs would never have a clue about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stock-up-on-canned-food-for-stock-market-crash-warns-former-gordon-brown-adviser-10469509.html

Where did you get "20 times that scale" from?

The article is from last Aug and the only quote in it is "Damian McBride said a coming economic crisis would be worse than the 2008 recession" and there is nothing to suggest he was talking about Brexit.

Also he had to previously resign over a plot to smear top torys including DC's wife over false claims of infidelity on a false website, so he's an unreliable bad boy.

[mommysboy]

Central to Scottish Independence is the issue of EU membership. That seems odd! Why is that?

Anyway, has it crossed anyone's mind that the EU doesn't want Scotland. Look at it from their point of view. One troublemaker is causing all sorts of problems, so why would they want another one- even worse? And one that can't/won't pay its way.

Troublemaker? We have demonstrated quite amply that we want to be part of the EU. We are not the troublemakers.

Why would we not be able to pay our way? Our GDP per head is par with the average for the EU.

Why would we not pay our way? Do we have form in this regard?

Scotland endlessly criticises and creates obstruction for the Union to which it is attached? Remind you of anyone?

Scotland threatens to hold an exit referendum when it can't get its own way(not one but two), regardless of the interests of other members. Getting there?

Scotland does not want the euro but elects to retain the pound (or its own version anyway). Has the penny dropped?

But there are major differences: The UK makes big yearly contributions and is happy to be independent, not expecting others to pay its way.

If you were an employer,say, would you employ someone like this?

[bkkcanuck8]

Central to Scottish Independence is the issue of EU membership. That seems odd! Why is that?

Anyway, has it crossed anyone's mind that the EU doesn't want Scotland. Look at it from their point of view. One troublemaker is causing all sorts of problems, so why would they want another one- even worse? And one that can't/won't pay its way.

Troublemaker? We have demonstrated quite amply that we want to be part of the EU. We are not the troublemakers.

Why would we not be able to pay our way? Our GDP per head is par with the average for the EU.

Why would we not pay our way? Do we have form in this regard?

Scotland endlessly criticises and creates obstruction for the Union to which it is attached? Remind you of anyone?

Scotland threatens to hold an exit referendum when it can't get its own way(not one but two), regardless of the interests of other members. Getting there?

Scotland does not want the euro but elects to retain the pound (or its own version anyway). Has the penny dropped?

But there are major differences: The UK makes big yearly contributions and is happy to be independent, not expecting others to pay its way.

If you were an employer,say, would you employ someone like this?

Well at least they probably would not pull a UK.... vote for withdrawal, win, then saying... maybe we should not invoke article 50 in a rush - even though the only thing that does is set a due date for termination 2 years in the future....

[Guest]

If they want to vote to go then let them...but maybe they might want to wait until further down the road just to see what is happening.

There is over 2 years to go before people want to start getting excited.

I don't know how Scotland would cope in the EU, the oil is running out and the price is not as good as it was. They would loose the free Prescriptions and free University (which the UK tax payer pays for) unless they have loads of money to pay for it, how would they pay into the bottomless pit of coffers which the EU wants every month? They would have to take on the Euro as they do not have theit own currency! But if thats what they want then Good Luck

This is quite funny as those thoughts are the same thoughts what EU thinks about the Britain at the moment.

We think you would be insane to get out as you get much more from being with us. You also cause a lot of troubles for us by not being a co-operative member of the union, but we still tend to love you as you have a lot of potential.

We might loose England, but at least we'll get Scotland, if the times so require.

[bkkcanuck8]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

[MJP]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

Need to colour everything inside the M25 in green too and it's there.

[mommysboy]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

Yes, but he's missing an important point: in order to form an alliance the other two must want it!

[Caps]

If they want to vote to go then let them...but maybe they might want to wait until further down the road just to see what is happening.

There is over 2 years to go before people want to start getting excited.

I don't know how Scotland would cope in the EU, the oil is running out and the price is not as good as it was. They would loose the free Prescriptions and free University (which the UK tax payer pays for) unless they have loads of money to pay for it, how would they pay into the bottomless pit of coffers which the EU wants every month? They would have to take on the Euro as they do not have theit own currency! But if thats what they want then Good Luck

This is quite funny as those thoughts are the same thoughts what EU thinks about the Britain at the moment.

We think you would be insane to get out as you get much more from being with us. You also cause a lot of troubles for us by not being a co-operative member of the union, but we still tend to love you as you have a lot of potential.

We might loose England, but at least we'll get Scotland, if the times so require.

Yes we maybe do cause a lot of trouble for you....have you ever thought why? Maybe its because we told like being told what to do by people we didn't want in power anyway. Some countries like being sent home with the just pumped the neighbours cat look on their face....we don't

[RuamRudy]

Troublemaker? We have demonstrated quite amply that we want to be part of the EU. We are not the troublemakers.

Why would we not be able to pay our way? Our GDP per head is par with the average for the EU.

Why would we not pay our way? Do we have form in this regard?

Scotland endlessly criticises and creates obstruction for the Union to which it is attached? Remind you of anyone?

Scotland threatens to hold an exit referendum when it can't get its own way(not one but two), regardless of the interests of other members. Getting there?

Scotland does not want the euro but elects to retain the pound (or its own version anyway). Has the penny dropped?

But there are major differences: The UK makes big yearly contributions and is happy to be independent, not expecting others to pay its way.

If you were an employer,say, would you employ someone like this?

Please stop with the attempts to patronise me. It simply makes you come across like Harry Enfield's Kevin.

Scotland endlessly criticises and creates obstruction for the Union to which it is attached? Remind you of anyone?

In what way does Scotland obstruct the Union? International matters are mainly reserved by Westminster - Scotland does not act on the UK's behalf on any international capacity. As for criticising, the Scottish government certainly criticises Westminster, but where does our government criticise the union as a whole?

Scotland threatens to hold an exit referendum when it can't get its own way(not one but two), regardless of the interests of other members. Getting there?

We just had a Brexit that Scotland and the Scottish people feel is against its/their interests. Your above statement suggests that England is in the same camp.

Scotland does not want the euro but elects to retain the pound (or its own version anyway). Has the penny dropped?

No, the penny hasn't dropped because you still fail to make a clear point.

But there are major differences: The UK makes big yearly contributions and is happy to be independent, not expecting others to pay its way.

Again, this is unclear. The UK makes yearly contributions to whom? Who suggested that others pay for the UK/Scotland?

You previously suggested that we don't pay our way - please back that up with evidence.

If you were an employer,say, would you employ someone like this?

Like what? You have failed to make anything close to a coherent case for any of your points, but end up writing something that a bar room lawyer might blurt out just before closing time.

[Bunnychow]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

Need to colour everything inside the M25 in green too and it's there.

Its a misleading map anyway, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Manx are also celts..so why not include those areas, The Scots and the Irish are not the only ones who came claim a celtic heritage..

The lines on this map are being drawn along "politcal lines" not cultural line...so who ever sent you this doesnt know what they are talking about

I known the Scots like to think they own the right to the "celts" but they dont..Cornwall, the Welsh and Irish have a far older celtic hertiage than the Scots

Edited June 27, 2016 by Bunnychow

[RuamRudy]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

Need to colour everything inside the M25 in green too and it's there.

Its a misleading map anyway, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Manx are also celts..so why not include those areas, The Scots and the Irish are not the only ones who came claim a celtic heritage..

The lines on this map are being drawn along "politcal lines" not cultural line...so who ever sent you this doesnt know what they are talking about

I known the Scots like to think they own the right to the "celts" but they dont..Cornwall, the Welsh and Irish have a far older celtic hertiage than the Scots

What on earth are you talking about? In what sort of a paranoid world would you need to live in to suggest that Scots had, in some way, trademarked Celticness?

To be honest, it is not even a notion I see readily celebrated anywhere in Scotland so I am at a total loss to understand your point.

[bkkcanuck8]

This popped into my facebook feed from a Scot.... interesting idea -- even if improbable....

Need to colour everything inside the M25 in green too and it's there.

Its a misleading map anyway, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Manx are also celts..so why not include those areas, The Scots and the Irish are not the only ones who came claim a celtic heritage..

The lines on this map are being drawn along "politcal lines" not cultural line...so who ever sent you this doesnt know what they are talking about

I known the Scots like to think they own the right to the "celts" but they dont..Cornwall, the Welsh and Irish have a far older celtic hertiage than the Scots

What on earth are you talking about? In what sort of a paranoid world would you need to live in to suggest that Scots had, in some way, trademarked Celticness?

To be honest, it is not even a notion I see readily celebrated anywhere in Scotland so I am at a total loss to understand your point.

Of course the Celtic lands were at one point most of France as well as most of western Europe, but the full title is Celtic Union of Scotland and Ireland.... not Celtic Union. Basically former territory controlled by United Kingdom that wants to maintain a union with Europe (former celtic territory)... while allowing England and Wales to go their own way...

[RuamRudy]

Need to colour everything inside the M25 in green too and it's there.

Its a misleading map anyway, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Manx are also celts..so why not include those areas, The Scots and the Irish are not the only ones who came claim a celtic heritage..

The lines on this map are being drawn along "politcal lines" not cultural line...so who ever sent you this doesnt know what they are talking about

I known the Scots like to think they own the right to the "celts" but they dont..Cornwall, the Welsh and Irish have a far older celtic hertiage than the Scots

What on earth are you talking about? In what sort of a paranoid world would you need to live in to suggest that Scots had, in some way, trademarked Celticness?

To be honest, it is not even a notion I see readily celebrated anywhere in Scotland so I am at a total loss to understand your point.

Of course the Celtic lands were at one point most of France as well as most of western Europe, but the full title is Celtic Union of Scotland and Ireland.... not Celtic Union. Basically former territory controlled by United Kingdom that wants to maintain a union with Europe (former celtic territory)... while allowing England and Wales to go their own way...

The Celtic Union of Scotland and Ireland was not something I had ever heard before, but Google reveals it to be reddit post on a map making subreddit - I don't think that this is anything other than the product of one map geek's imagination.

[bkkcanuck8]

Its a misleading map anyway, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Manx are also celts..so why not include those areas, The Scots and the Irish are not the only ones who came claim a celtic heritage..

The lines on this map are being drawn along "politcal lines" not cultural line...so who ever sent you this doesnt know what they are talking about

I known the Scots like to think they own the right to the "celts" but they dont..Cornwall, the Welsh and Irish have a far older celtic hertiage than the Scots

What on earth are you talking about? In what sort of a paranoid world would you need to live in to suggest that Scots had, in some way, trademarked Celticness?

To be honest, it is not even a notion I see readily celebrated anywhere in Scotland so I am at a total loss to understand your point.

Of course the Celtic lands were at one point most of France as well as most of western Europe, but the full title is Celtic Union of Scotland and Ireland.... not Celtic Union. Basically former territory controlled by United Kingdom that wants to maintain a union with Europe (former celtic territory)... while allowing England and Wales to go their own way...

The Celtic Union of Scotland and Ireland was not something I had ever heard before, but Google reveals it to be reddit post on a map making subreddit - I don't think that this is anything other than the product of one map geek's imagination.

No doubt, you can find someone writing about almost any dream.... but it made me think of a political realignment of common interests (i.e. staying in Europe). There is no formal proposal that I have ever heard of so it could be as simple as some sort of "sovereignty association". If it were able to bring about Irish reunification it would be a good think IMHO.