Putin warns Finland: Russia will respond if Helsinki joins NATO

[Rancid]

It is Finland's choice, but aren't there currently no significant Russian armies stationed on the border? Joining NATO will quickly change that, hard to see how the Finns benefit from intentionally militarising their border.

I suppose the Russians look at it like if Canada had joined an anti-US alliance, namely it isn't seen as a friendly act by a neighbour. Especially if later a whole bunch of missiles get stationed there. What was the US reaction to Cuba?

[Publicus]

It is Finland's choice, but aren't there currently no significant Russian armies stationed on the border? Joining NATO will quickly change that, hard to see how the Finns benefit from intentionally militarising their border.

I suppose the Russians look at it like if Canada had joined an anti-US alliance, namely it isn't seen as a friendly act by a neighbour. Especially if later a whole bunch of missiles get stationed there. What was the US reaction to Cuba?

It would help to read the OP and the posts to the thread.

Putin has ground troops at the border or near Finland. Putin says the Russian forces are 1500 km from Finland but a poster who knows said Putin is full of it about the distance, his forces being much closer -- as in much much closer.

I suppose the Russians look at it like if Canada had joined an anti-US alliance, namely it isn't seen as a friendly act by a neighbour.

False analogy and impossible to conceive.

It is a failure to try to argue moral equivalency between the USA and Russia. Together with UK the three fought against fascism in WW2. However, shortly afterward, when Soviet Russia and Putin's hero Stalin started the Cold War, Russia had become what it had just fought against to defeat. Same thing, just a different country and a different crowd running a different horror show.

If the Czarist-Chekist and Stalinist Putin could take control of Canada today he would do it in a New York minute. If Soviet Russia could have taken control of Canada it would have done it in a minute. Yet the USA is not invading Canada, is not threatening to invade Canada, hasn't had a conflict with Canada since 1812. Canada does not fear the US military nor does it have to, and vice-versa.

Since the 1950s US and Canada operate the North American Aerospace Defense Command to defend the continent against attack from the air by ballistic missiles coming across the North Pole and Arctic, i.e., from Russia. Add China.

Cuba is closer to what you mean, so it merits noting Canada has always maintained diplomatic relations with the Castro government. To the USA until only recently, Cuba was a Soviet Russian dependent satellite state in the Western Hemisphere and that was not a good thing.

Nato was formed in 1949 to defend Europe against top-notch Soviet Russian tanks leading the Red Army across the plains of Eastern Europe into France and up to the UK and southward through Italy and Spain. The same is true today.

Finland is not on the mainland Europe however, and given the long and grim thousand year history of Finland fighting Russian invasions, the folk there have a reason to be more than a bit concerned about this Stalinist Putin guy.

[Guest]

Finnish troops and military equipment is in sync with NATO forces. Finland is also part of the NATO hang-around members, who participate joint drills with NATO troops. All in preparation for the time there is a political will to join the NATO. Then it's of course NATO's decision to approve Finland to become a member.

Sometimes it feels that Putin is pushing Finland to NATO. Just before Putin's trip to Finland, his regime told that Russia would not start an offence against NATO countries.. Thus leaving Finland as one of the only Russia's western neighbours out of that 'promise'.

Obviously Putin likes to stir the soup, but the amount of contradictions he has lately said, makes one wonder if Putin has lost his touch of the reality. If Putin no longer have a clear mind, it's bad news for both Russia and for the west. Hopefully Putin will be replaced by someone, who is not so afraid of loosing his personal power inside Russia.

Map of Russia's troops as of 2013. Sorry it's in Finnish, but it shows that Russia's troops are indeed very close to Finland and has been there for a long time. The distance to the closest Russian troops is 50km. There are plenty of troops within 200km range.

Like I said before, Finland is not going go against Russia. It would not make any sense. We are a small nation.

What Finland is afraid is the Shelling os Mainila type of incident, when Soviet Union shelled it's own village (by accident?) and then claimed it was Finland who did it. This started the Winter war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

The Shelling of Mainila (Finnish: Mainilan laukaukset) was a military incident on November 26, 1939, where the Soviet Union's Red Army shelled the Russian village of Mainila (located near Beloostrov), declared that the fire originated from Finland across the nearby border and claimed to have had losses in personnel. Through that false flag operation the Soviet Union gained a great propaganda boost and a casus belli for launching the Winter War four days later.[1][2]

[bendejo]

Putin warns Finland: Russia will respond if Helsinki joins NATO

Is that respond as in getting an erection?

Putin is going to have a hard time if he makes the lives of his people any more miserable, putting them through another war.

[Galactus]

Fascist Putin Russia and its imperialist tendencies.

who is Russia threatening others? Finland is a sovereign state and can join NATO anytime.

it looks like Russia claims some land from Scandinavia like they did in Ukraine, Crimea and Syria.
Russia needs to get rid of Putin ASAP, he is hostile and still holds a grudge for western countries.

[Hammock]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

[Galactus]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

russia invades other countries like Ukraine and Syria.

so, source of threat is Russia, not NATO. I dont see NATO invading other countries.

it is very normal for countries bordering Russia want NATO coverage after the hostilities of Russia around those regions.

and nobody believes the lies of fascist Putin Russia anymore too.

[Publicus]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

The history of the United States and the history of Russia are radically opposite, as is the constitution of each country.

USA for instance does not have 1000 years of Czarist history nor did Lenin lead the American Revolutionary War of Independence or the country itself. Stalin was dictator-czar of Soviet Russia, not of the USA.

Putin is a Czarist-Chekist which we do not have in the USA.

Finland has a long history of being abused by Russia and it remains concerned in the 21st century about yet another Russian leader in Putin the revanchist and irredentist. USA has no history of czars, madhat dictators, revanchism or irredentism. USA did in fact gain most of its land area by purchasing it, to include from the local tribes and treaty-making.

If the Fins are a bit nervous these days it would be understandable given they have a 1000 year neighbor from hell.

[Hammock]

Chekist, czarist, KGB spy, Putin fanboyz, CCP fanboyz, Chekists, Czarists, fanboyz, fanboyz. It's medical case here

[Hammock]

Publicus , hi there. Quickly have you appeared. Was waiting, na? Ok, now you can start all over again.

[Guest]

Chekist, czarist, KGB spy, Putin fanboyz, CCP fanboyz, Chekists, Czarists, fanboyz, fanboyz. It's medical case here

Well, that was a brutally honest self-evaluation. I'm was a bit surprised, but well done!

[Publicus]

The guy needs to get a grip...

Might want to start by focusing on the issues.

Comparative analysis and that sort of thing.

History. Some facts. Putin is in fact a Chekist. USA never had a czar. Or a Lenin. Or a Stalin.

And so on...

[Guest]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

The western countries are quite self sufficient, when it comes to basic necessities. It's true that currently lots of manufacturing is happening in China, which then exports items to the western world. Russia itself currently has very little to offer to the world. Russia has some minerals and oil&gas. That's about it. If you are looking for artificial enemy who wishes to get access to those resources, you might wish to look around to other directions as well.

People in the west know that Russia has lot's of smart people, who want to improve the country, instead of taking it apart internally. These people can't be too loud inside of the Russia, as the current Putin's regime is overly protective of the regime's public appearance inside Russia's medias. The lifespan of opposition leaders, who act inside of the Russia is reduced if they dear to go against Putin's regime.

There is no real free press or free speech in Russia. In the west we demand to have these rights, because it makes our leaders accountable for their actions.

If you think nobody in Russia trusts the west, you might be hanging with the wrong crowds and have placed yourself in a bubble which limits your ability to hear what the people in the next table are talking about. They might be whispering at the moment, but if Putin continues it's destructive policies, they might start talking in a normal voice, even if they know they could be in a big trouble.

That is what Putin is so much afraid of - the sensible Russians to tell Putin to stop his self serving madness.

[Hammock]

Oilinki, maybe I am in the wrong bubble or sitting at the wrong table but polls are showing 80% support for Putin's policy in Russia. It is proven even by US poll agencies. The West has lost its chance during Gorbachev and Yesltsin to establish normal relations with Russia. Now there is no chance unless: 1) the west will try to overthrrow the governmnent like it did in Ukraine and 2) war

[Kiwiken]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

russia invades other countries like Ukraine and Syria.

so, source of threat is Russia, not NATO. I dont see NATO invading other countries.

it is very normal for countries bordering Russia want NATO coverage after the hostilities of Russia around those regions.

and nobody believes the lies of fascist Putin Russia anymore too.

I am Glad Nato and their Allied Countries do not invade other Countries only promote stable democracies Like Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, somalia , Bosnia . Ukraine such a perfect Democracy. Russia has not invaded Syria they are actually there on invitation of current Regime. Crimea was traditionally part of Russia its status debatable

[Galactus]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

russia invades other countries like Ukraine and Syria.

so, source of threat is Russia, not NATO. I dont see NATO invading other countries.

it is very normal for countries bordering Russia want NATO coverage after the hostilities of Russia around those regions.

and nobody believes the lies of fascist Putin Russia anymore too.

I am Glad Nato and their Allied Countries do not invade other Countries only promote stable democracies Like Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, somalia , Bosnia . Ukraine such a perfect Democracy. Russia has not invaded Syria they are actually there on invitation of current Regime. Crimea was traditionally part of Russia its status debatable

and russia is the cradle of democracy?

invitation? by who? bloody assad? assad cannot represent syrians but just his bloody group as someone killing his own people. dont tell me his governance is legitimate! so his invitation is not legal of course in a country going through a civil war.

turks can also claim crimea too as they ruled there for centuries and still lots of turk lives there.

you cant just go invade somewhere claiming is traditionally yours.

[Hammock]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

The history of the United States and the history of Russia are radically opposite, as is the constitution of each country.

USA for instance does not have 1000 years of Czarist history nor did Lenin lead the American Revolutionary War of Independence or the country itself. Stalin was dictator-czar of Soviet Russia, not of the USA.

Putin is a Czarist-Chekist which we do not have in the USA.

Finland has a long history of being abused by Russia and it remains concerned in the 21st century about yet another Russian leader in Putin the revanchist and irredentist. USA has no history of czars, madhat dictators, revanchism or irredentism. USA did in fact gain most of its land area by purchasing it, to include from the local tribes and treaty-making.

If the Fins are a bit nervous these days it would be understandable given they have a 1000 year neighbor from hell.

Publicus, to my point of view a person who worked in the secret intelligence services like CIA, KGB, MI6, FBI, FSB shows his/her high intellectual level, high moral principles, discipline, patriotism. Is there anything wrong with it? Why do you constantly refer Putin as a KGB/NKVD Chekist, Spy? Putin did his intelligence work in GDR, has a colonel rank. He did not shoot people in the head like NKVD did during Stalin. You like James Bond 007, don't you? Everybody likes Bond James Bond. Because he is smart. He is a spy. Same as Putin. You are constantly in each post labelling Putin a Chekist Czarist. Why? It doesn't make you look good, believe me. Obama was a community leader somewhere in Hawaii when Putin was already a colonel. USA has 200 years of history and did not have czars or kings. So what? Do you consider nations which has kings a low ranked nations or what? I just don't get your logic here about czarism. It is the same thing as Kingdom. I understand that you hate Russia, Russian people, Russian government. You can hate everyone in the world including yourself. But the level of your hatred is already alarming. To me it shows that something wrong is happening in your country. From your posts I see that hatred, war-mongering, complex of superiority over everyone in the world is your main issue. I never say anything bad about American people who are talented, hard-working and are doing many good things to the mankind like technology, science. But please, could you explain what is wrong with you? Why your poison is dripping on my keyboard while I am reading your posts about Russia?

[Publicus]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

The history of the United States and the history of Russia are radically opposite, as is the constitution of each country.

USA for instance does not have 1000 years of Czarist history nor did Lenin lead the American Revolutionary War of Independence or the country itself. Stalin was dictator-czar of Soviet Russia, not of the USA.

Putin is a Czarist-Chekist which we do not have in the USA.

Finland has a long history of being abused by Russia and it remains concerned in the 21st century about yet another Russian leader in Putin the revanchist and irredentist. USA has no history of czars, madhat dictators, revanchism or irredentism. USA did in fact gain most of its land area by purchasing it, to include from the local tribes and treaty-making.

If the Fins are a bit nervous these days it would be understandable given they have a 1000 year neighbor from hell.

Publicus, to my point of view a person who worked in the secret intelligence services like CIA, KGB, MI6, FBI, FSB shows his/her high intellectual level, high moral principles, discipline, patriotism. Is there anything wrong with it? Why do you constantly refer Putin as a KGB/NKVD Chekist, Spy? Putin did his intelligence work in GDR, has a colonel rank. He did not shoot people in the head like NKVD did during Stalin. You like James Bond 007, don't you? Everybody likes Bond James Bond. Because he is smart. He is a spy. Same as Putin. You are constantly in each post labelling Putin a Chekist Czarist. Why? It doesn't make you look good, believe me. Obama was a community leader somewhere in Hawaii when Putin was already a colonel. USA has 200 years of history and did not have czars or kings. So what? Do you consider nations which has kings a low ranked nations or what? I just don't get your logic here about czarism. It is the same thing as Kingdom. I understand that you hate Russia, Russian people, Russian government. You can hate everyone in the world including yourself. But the level of your hatred is already alarming. To me it shows that something wrong is happening in your country. From your posts I see that hatred, war-mongering, complex of superiority over everyone in the world is your main issue. I never say anything bad about American people who are talented, hard-working and are doing many good things to the mankind like technology, science. But please, could you explain what is wrong with you? Why your poison is dripping on my keyboard while I am reading your posts about Russia?

The personalised post containing certain characterisations created by the poster are variously rejected or denied, from the first word to the last one.

Putin is a Chekist who carries forward into the present 1000 years of czarism. Putin the Chekist is not a democrat, or Putin is only nominally a democrat. Putin is an authoritarian as his ridiculous and failed saying the "dictatorship of democracy" demonstrates.

No one group of a society controls everything in the society but Putin and his gangs do a bang-up job of it themselves and for themselves.....

Chekism (from Cheka, the first Soviet secret police organization) is a term to describe the situation in the Soviet Union and contemporary Russia, where the secret political police control everything in society.

The idea of the secret political police as a backbone of Soviet society was put forward by Abdurakhman Avtorkhanov, who wrote: It is not true that the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party is a supreme power. The Political Bureau is only a shadow of the real supreme power that stands behind the chair of every Bureau member (...) The real power thinks, acts and dictates for all of us. The name of the power is NKVD—MVD—MGB. The Stalin regime is based not on the Soviets, Party ideals, the power of the Political Bureau or Stalin’s personality, but on the organization and the techniques of the Soviet political police where Stalin plays the role of the first policeman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

This is the legacy Putin lives and pursues and it why Finland in its long history of Russian imposed misery is discussing whether it might apply to Nato.

[MJP]

Easy fix. Russia and China join NATO. They announce their willingness and eagerness to join publicly.

[Hammock]

Russia is trying to protect its western borders from NATO aggression. When Soviets placed their nukes 90 miles from Florida the UsofA certainly didn't like it. Why should Russians be happy now to get nato troops placed on it's borders? If nato would try to take on Russia it would get a return swift kickback so nato with their new microscopic Baltic friends would become sweet pussycats again for another 100 years busy with their brexits, frexits, corruption, refugees. Nobody in Russia trusts Western lies anymore.

The history of the United States and the history of Russia are radically opposite, as is the constitution of each country.

USA for instance does not have 1000 years of Czarist history nor did Lenin lead the American Revolutionary War of Independence or the country itself. Stalin was dictator-czar of Soviet Russia, not of the USA.

Putin is a Czarist-Chekist which we do not have in the USA.

Finland has a long history of being abused by Russia and it remains concerned in the 21st century about yet another Russian leader in Putin the revanchist and irredentist. USA has no history of czars, madhat dictators, revanchism or irredentism. USA did in fact gain most of its land area by purchasing it, to include from the local tribes and treaty-making.

If the Fins are a bit nervous these days it would be understandable given they have a 1000 year neighbor from hell.

Publicus, to my point of view a person who worked in the secret intelligence services like CIA, KGB, MI6, FBI, FSB shows his/her high intellectual level, high moral principles, discipline, patriotism. Is there anything wrong with it? Why do you constantly refer Putin as a KGB/NKVD Chekist, Spy? Putin did his intelligence work in GDR, has a colonel rank. He did not shoot people in the head like NKVD did during Stalin. You like James Bond 007, don't you? Everybody likes Bond James Bond. Because he is smart. He is a spy. Same as Putin. You are constantly in each post labelling Putin a Chekist Czarist. Why? It doesn't make you look good, believe me. Obama was a community leader somewhere in Hawaii when Putin was already a colonel. USA has 200 years of history and did not have czars or kings. So what? Do you consider nations which has kings a low ranked nations or what? I just don't get your logic here about czarism. It is the same thing as Kingdom. I understand that you hate Russia, Russian people, Russian government. You can hate everyone in the world including yourself. But the level of your hatred is already alarming. To me it shows that something wrong is happening in your country. From your posts I see that hatred, war-mongering, complex of superiority over everyone in the world is your main issue. I never say anything bad about American people who are talented, hard-working and are doing many good things to the mankind like technology, science. But please, could you explain what is wrong with you? Why your poison is dripping on my keyboard while I am reading your posts about Russia?

The personalised post containing certain characterisations created by the poster are variously rejected or denied, from the first word to the last one.

Putin is a Chekist who carries forward into the present 1000 years of czarism. Putin the Chekist is not a democrat, or Putin is only nominally a democrat. Putin is an authoritarian as his ridiculous and failed saying the "dictatorship of democracy" demonstrates.

No one group of a society controls everything in the society but Putin and his gangs do a bang-up job of it themselves and for themselves.....

Chekism (from Cheka, the first Soviet secret police organization) is a term to describe the situation in the Soviet Union and contemporary Russia, where the secret political police control everything in society.

The idea of the secret political police as a backbone of Soviet society was put forward by Abdurakhman Avtorkhanov, who wrote: It is not true that the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party is a supreme power. The Political Bureau is only a shadow of the real supreme power that stands behind the chair of every Bureau member (...) The real power thinks, acts and dictates for all of us. The name of the power is NKVD—MVD—MGB. The Stalin regime is based not on the Soviets, Party ideals, the power of the Political Bureau or Stalin’s personality, but on the organization and the techniques of the Soviet political police where Stalin plays the role of the first policeman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

This is the legacy Putin lives and pursues and it why Finland in its long history of Russian imposed misery is discussing whether it might apply to Nato.

Oh dear, Publicus, what are you writing? What Cheka? It was 70 years ago. There is no more Cheka. No more KGB. No more USSR. They are all gone. Wake up, man. The style, even caps font and total absence of logic in your post shows your are obsessed with some illusions and paranoia.

[Publicus]

Deal with the issues.

If you can.

Or as best you can.

Oh that's right, you'd already tried that and it didn't go well at all

[Hammock]

Easy fix. Russia and China join NATO. They announce their willingness and eagerness to join publicly.

MJP. There were discussions about Russia joining Nato, Russia wanted to have good relations with the west after the collapse of the USSR, when Russia had pro-western governments. Russia turned to the western democracy for a while. But the West decided to go another way - tsuddenly start confrontation with Russia, start expanding Nato to the East closer to the Russians borders, started demonising Russia in the eyes of the world. What was that? It is beyond understanding. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were pro-western presidents why the West spat in their hands? Clinton started bombing Serbia and so on and so forth. Now all chances gone. There is no more trust in western democracy in the minds of the Russian people. Western style democracy is now associated with violence, war-mongering, violation of international rights, moral disintegration. Polls in Russia are showing it. And these polls are conducted by western organisations. So, what to say? Congratulations to some "smart" decision makers in the west who had screwed up the chance they had in the 90s.

[Hammock]

Deal with the issues.

If you can.

Or as best you can.

Oh that's right, you'd already tried that and it didn't go well at all

Sorry, pal. You can continue your performance, I will not interfere. Maybe someone will understand your " logic".

[MJP]

Easy fix. Russia and China join NATO. They announce their willingness and eagerness to join publicly.

MJP. There were discussions about Russia joining Nato, Russia wanted to have good relations with the west after the collapse of the USSR, when Russia had pro-western governments. Russia turned to the western democracy for a while. But the West decided to go another way - tsuddenly start confrontation with Russia, start expanding Nato to the East closer to the Russians borders, started demonising Russia in the eyes of the world. What was that? It is beyond understanding. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were pro-western presidents why the West spat in their hands? Clinton started bombing Serbia and so on and so forth. Now all chances gone. There is no more trust in western democracy in the minds of the Russian people. Western style democracy is now associated with violence, war-mongering, violation of international rights, moral disintegration. Polls in Russia are showing it. And these polls are conducted by western organisations. So, what to say? Congratulations to some "smart" decision makers in the west who had screwed up the chance they had in the 90s.

I had a look at a map of NATO bases round the World and wondered if Russia did the same and had bases on the Canadian and Mexican borders what the result might be.

It's difficult to see Russia as the aggressor in all this.

[losworld]

Finland has only 5 million people.

If Russia chooses to try to invade Finland, it will soon notice that 5 million highly educated and motivated Finns are very difficult to handle.

Moscow would soon see a lot of 'terrorist' acts which are aimed to crumble down Russia. These acts would not be anything like what we have seen before.

Just saying, Finland is really not worth of even a try.

I guess courses to learn a Russian dialects which are not widely spoken in Moscow are going to be in demand soon.

Russia has absolutely no interest in invading Finland or anywhere else at present I am sure. Quit believing any of the verbal diarrhea from the mainstream media, the make war companines or those with poltical gains from such stupid talk.

[Hammock]

Easy fix. Russia and China join NATO. They announce their willingness and eagerness to join publicly.

MJP. There were discussions about Russia joining Nato, Russia wanted to have good relations with the west after the collapse of the USSR, when Russia had pro-western governments. Russia turned to the western democracy for a while. But the West decided to go another way - tsuddenly start confrontation with Russia, start expanding Nato to the East closer to the Russians borders, started demonising Russia in the eyes of the world. What was that? It is beyond understanding. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were pro-western presidents why the West spat in their hands? Clinton started bombing Serbia and so on and so forth. Now all chances gone. There is no more trust in western democracy in the minds of the Russian people. Western style democracy is now associated with violence, war-mongering, violation of international rights, moral disintegration. Polls in Russia are showing it. And these polls are conducted by western organisations. So, what to say? Congratulations to some "smart" decision makers in the west who had screwed up the chance they had in the 90s.

I had a look at a map of NATO bases round the World and wondered if Russia did the same and had bases on the Canadian and Mexican borders what the result might be.

It's difficult to see Russia as the aggressor in all this.

Yes, you are right, MJP but Russia is constantly called "an agressor". Swedes are always seeing invisible Russian submarines near their borders, Poland and these microscopic Baltic states are digging bunkers. Madness.

[Hammock]

Finland has only 5 million people.

If Russia chooses to try to invade Finland, it will soon notice that 5 million highly educated and motivated Finns are very difficult to handle.

Moscow would soon see a lot of 'terrorist' acts which are aimed to crumble down Russia. These acts would not be anything like what we have seen before.

Just saying, Finland is really not worth of even a try.

I guess courses to learn a Russian dialects which are not widely spoken in Moscow are going to be in demand soon.

Russia has absolutely no interest in invading Finland or anywhere else at present I am sure. Quit believing any of the verbal diarrhea from the mainstream media, the make war companines or those with poltical gains from such stupid talk.

Russia and Finland have very constructive relations and of course Russia will never ever invade Finland or Baltic countries. The president of Finland even told the former Swedish minister of defense to calm down with her anti-Russian rhetorics.

[MJP]

Finland has only 5 million people.

If Russia chooses to try to invade Finland, it will soon notice that 5 million highly educated and motivated Finns are very difficult to handle.

Moscow would soon see a lot of 'terrorist' acts which are aimed to crumble down Russia. These acts would not be anything like what we have seen before.

Just saying, Finland is really not worth of even a try.

I guess courses to learn a Russian dialects which are not widely spoken in Moscow are going to be in demand soon.

Russia has absolutely no interest in invading Finland or anywhere else at present I am sure. Quit believing any of the verbal diarrhea from the mainstream media, the make war companines or those with poltical gains from such stupid talk.

Russia and Finland have very constructive relations and of course Russia will never ever invade Finland or Baltic countries. The president of Finland even told the former Swedish minister of defense to calm down with her anti-Russian rhetorics.

I find that Jens Stoltenberg chap the scariest of the lot. Complete fruitcake.

[Publicus]

Deal with the issues.

If you can.

Or as best you can.

Oh that's right, you'd already tried that and it didn't go well at all

Sorry, pal. You can continue your performance, I will not interfere. Maybe someone will understand your " logic".

It's just a suggestion but it might be good to try to chat with more than the posters that basicly share your own world view.

[Kiwiken]

The guy needs to get a grip...

Might want to start by focusing on the issues.

Comparative analysis and that sort of thing.

History. Some facts. Putin is in fact a Chekist. USA never had a czar. Or a Lenin. Or a Stalin.

And so on...

But you did have a War Criminal Bush as the UK had Blair. : THe facts speak for themselves:

CHILCOT'S UNAMBIGUOUS FINDINGS INCLUDE:

*There was no imminent threat from Saddam Hussein.

*A strategy of containment was preferable to military intervention.

*There was no justified certainty to London's judgments on the severity of any threat imposed by Iraq's WMD.

*Blair was warned explicitly, but chose to underestimate the consequences of the 2003 invasion.

*Planning for managing post-Saddam Iraq was inadequate.