Chiangmai is getting expensive and slowly changing ....these days

[MissAndry]

Someone with your vast intellect and undoubtedly superior education, when compared to the run-of-the-mill plebs that frequent this forum, would have been expected to be acquainted with such facts. Speaking for myself, I feel let down as I have tended to worship you in the past: you seem to think you are better than everybody else and I naturally believed you.

Sorry Mark, I've never represented myself as anything but a silly old moo.

[thai3]

"service which used to be very personable has dropped a notch here with the younger generations seemingly unwilling to go the extra mile or perhaps just tired from the crowds we are seeing these days,"

the younger generation is totally useless and brain dead for the most part, faces glued to mobiles, reading shallow worthless garbage. you go in somewhere to do business and 80% of the time they don't want to put down the mobile and do the job they are getting paid to do.

i went to a friend's pharmacy last week. he wasn't in but had a girl there who i assume was a recent CMU graduate based upon her uniform. she was the only one in and had her earplugs in, watching something on her iPhone, laughing. there were 2 customers; me and a woman. she failed to notice either of us standing at the counter and we could not get her attention because the earplugs. the woman walked out. i rang my friend on his mobile as i stood there and told him the situation. he thanked me and said he saw the same thing when he came in the day before. she was fired a day or two later.

sincerely hope karma comes to bite you back one day,pathetic farang should be ashamed of your self.

why take the side of a lazy ignorant 'assistant' he did the right thing and she needed to be sacked. No such thing as karma, that's superstitious nonsense often dragged up on here

[amykat]

Service to the non Thai speakers has always been challenging in CM and beyond. In the 'old days' you would sit down in a restaurant and use your best Thai language skills to order. The waitress would dutifully take your order with a cute wai and off to the kitchen. After a half hour you are no longer able to be noticed and your waitress had disappeared into the back. They simply did not understand you and hoped you had the grace to simply leave. It was either the Bier Stubbe or correct your pronunciation. Not that hard to receive good service from someone that can actually understand you in their own country.

People seem to miss the Wai...maybe the people giving the Wai never received a reply.

The Wai is a tricky business...how high to reply ? There could be endless discussions on wai etiquette. Who goes first, how high...oh no, mine was higher than his, or mine was lower...but, I know he is more connected than myself and he deserved a higher wai. A wai can be given, but not retracted :-) But, to give a wai too high makes you look foolish. :-(

If you go to the same place often, try a simple dip of the head and a 'kawp' . Doesn't take much to connect.

As for CM...it has always been a place to get drunk, laid and get out. Still good for that.

.....Ken

So, let me get this straight ...you are trying to impress us with what a great Thai language speaker you are and your great knowledge of Thai culture and you are an old Thai hand ...and yet you sum the place up by saying that CM "has always been a place to get drunk, laid and get out" ....

Very impressive contribution!!

[mania]

I agree although only here 4.5 years I have seen many changes upward in prices.

But thankfully things like Electricity is still well below what we will soon pay again as we are headed back to our other home for various reasons unrelated to prices here.

But one thing I have really noticed is things like higher end Dental work etc being driven up. I of course realize the industry knows what the West pays

so has increased there prices knowing they are still under the West pricing.

But I also talk to workers here...dental assistants etc & their pay is still ridiculously low.

So the higher up the ladder folks are not sharing the increased rates with the help that is obvious.

Another thing I am very familiar with is what these days they call Specialty Coffee

Or single Origin etc espresso, Latte's Cappuccino's etc

These prices all easily rival the West pricing if not exceeds it many times.

I do realize the high tax on imported beans but these higher prices are even on Thai based bean coffees etc

Then of course any sweets they sell in cafes etc...85-95 baht per small slice of something is quite western prices already

Of course it goes without saying none expect prices to be dormant as COL advances

But on the other hand I see a large gap between many things price wise & incomes of

the working class. I never felt like things here were at a breaking point price wise because I come from

what is a very high cost of living area but, what I do notice is this gap growing & it will be the working class & their kids etc who

would like to partake in what they see but cannot that is eventually surely a problem no?

[MissAndry]

Another thing I am very familiar with is what these days they call Specialty Coffee

Or single Origin etc espresso, Latte's Cappuccino's etc

These prices all easily rival the West pricing if not exceeds it many times.

Hot latte at Nana Bakery and coffee shop, 30bht

Iced Hazelnut Latte at Khualek Cafe 65bht

Frappuccino at Black Canyon CM 85bht

Frappuccino at Starbucks, Queensway, London 200bht (4 pounds)

So not in my home country.

Edited July 5, 2016 by MissAndry

[mania]

Another thing I am very familiar with is what these days they call Specialty Coffee

Or single Origin etc espresso, Latte's Cappuccino's etc

These prices all easily rival the West pricing if not exceeds it many times.

Hot latte at Nana Bakery and coffee shop, 30bht

Iced Hazelnut Latte at Khualek Cafe 65bht

Frappuccino at Black Canyon CM 85bht

Frappuccino at Starbucks, Queensway, London 200bht (4 pounds)

So not in my home country.

Heheh well while I would credit Charbucks with introducing a lot of folks to coffee I would not classify them as specialty coffee.

But if we did go with that choice then ok a US Starbucks Latte in a size equal to Lattes here (8 oz) runs $2.75 or 96 baht

So as I said prices here do in fact rival...and yet expenses do not rival nor does the workers wages

A Barista in the US makes a heck of a lot more than a Barista/non owner here...yet prices near identical

Edited July 5, 2016 by mania

[MissAndry]

A Barista in the US makes a heck of a lot more than a Barista/non owner here...yet prices near identical

I would consider a barista as a minimum wage job anywhere in the world.

[mania]

A Barista in the US makes a heck of a lot more than a Barista/non owner here...yet prices near identical

I would consider a barista as a minimum wage job anywhere in the world.

Yes well you would be sadly mistaken these days in the specialty coffee world but........that aside it is not the point

Point was prices here rival west now for some things yet wages do not.

Wages even minimum wages are usually tied to such things

[MissAndry]

Point was prices here rival west now for some things yet wages do not.

But the most important prices don't,

My flat in London 360,000gbp, Vs a similar (run down) flat in Bangkok 750,000bht (15,000gbp), or 450,000bht (9,000gbp) in CM.

(Although I'm not comparing like with like as the 9,000gbp flat in CM was more than double the size of my flat in London)

Nobody has to drink coffee in an expensive coffee shop, but everyone needs a place to live.

Edited July 5, 2016 by MissAndry

[mania]

Point was prices here rival west now for some things yet wages do not.

But the most important prices don't,

My flat in London 360,000gbp, Vs a similar (run down) flat in Bangkok 750,000bht (15,000gbp), or 450,000bht (9,000gbp) in CM.

(Althoug I'm not comparing like with like as the 9,000gbp flay in CM was more than double the size of my flat in London)

Nobody has to drink coffee in an expensive coffee shop, but everyone needs a place to live.

Yes as I stated in my original post in regards to electricity for instance

But good golly MissAndry I can see now how you have nearly 500 posts in just a month of being here 555 Just kidding & hope you have a nice night

Edited July 5, 2016 by mania

[garryjohns]

Another thing I am very familiar with is what these days they call Specialty Coffee

Or single Origin etc espresso, Latte's Cappuccino's etc

These prices all easily rival the West pricing if not exceeds it many times.

Hot latte at Nana Bakery and coffee shop, 30bht

Iced Hazelnut Latte at Khualek Cafe 65bht

Frappuccino at Black Canyon CM 85bht

Frappuccino at Starbucks, Queensway, London 200bht (4 pounds)

So not in my home country.

Nonsense [again]

Comparing apples with oranges is nonsense.

A mate here from your "home country" indulges in a starbucks mocha frappocino specialty.

He pays 3 pounds 70 in home country.= about 170 bht

In Thailand he pays 160 baht for same starbucks drink

Manias post #68 is correct;

If thats not West pricing, tell me what it is please.

Edited July 5, 2016 by garryjohns

[Dante99]

Prices are going up.

Service quality is going down.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are making little or no progress.

Where in the world are these things not true?

Probably a few places but very few?

[MissAndry]

He pays 3 pounds 70 in home country.= about 170 bht

A cheapskate ....... no whipped cream on top!

[garryjohns]

He pays 3 pounds 70 in home country.= about 170 bht

A cheapskate ....... no whipped cream on top!

Sheeesh more nonsense from you.

Your one and only post that is factual and i am in full agreement with is #61.

Your own words;

I've never represented myself as anything but a silly old moo.

[Loaded]

I'm bloody disgusted by how expensive things are here.They expect me to pay 10 baht (0.20 pounds) for 30 minutes airport parking in Chiang Mai. I think they charge me these exorbitant rates because I'm a farang. In London I only pay 3.60 pounds for 30 minutes. I think it's time I packed my bags and left to teach these people a lesson.

[LawrenceChee]

I'm bloody disgusted by how expensive things are here.They expect me to pay 10 baht (0.20 pounds) for 30 minutes airport parking in Chiang Mai. I think they charge me these exorbitant rates because I'm a farang. In London I only pay 3.60 pounds for 30 minutes. I think it's time I packed my bags and left to teach these people a lesson.

I am no cheap charlie and not a disgruntled ranter....if you see my previous posts on Chiangmai, I do enjoy the finer things in life as well as the local scene...what we are lamenting is the quick loss of the perceived value / service in the last 5 years ...

I shop almost daily when I am here in Tops / Rimping ; my meals are mostly done 90% outside in all varieties of restaurants, from the 30 baht stores to Fujian, MK, Fuji, S&P , Tenguko, Lamcheron Seafood are all place I get a member card as it is worth the discount for annual spent.

While the markets have remained relatively stable ...the rest of the places have gone up very quickly in inflation and I don't drink or smoke which saves me more monthly as my average monthly spent in supermarkets is 10k and this is with perhaps 1-2 dinner meals cooked in the home monthly if you don't count in the breakfast of bacon / sausages. ...my monthly average restaurant spent ranges from 18k - 30k depending if we went crazy and ate more western compared to local food.

Either you have not noticed it or perhaps that 30 mins in London has really done you by mate

[whimsy]

Shop rents in the city have gone up a lot in the last few years.

[MissAndry]

Your one and only post that is factual and i am in full agreement with is #61.

You are more than welcome to check the prices of the coffees in any of the three CM coffee shops I listed.

[cmsally]

True its changing but people need to take a step back and see how much they are are part of the demand process driving that change.

There are mostly the "big names" being thrown around such as Tops, Rimping, MK etc etc

These places mostly didn't exist 30 years ago and when they first arrived there was a kind of novelty/status factor of working there - nice uniform, AC etc. I think that has now mostly worn off.

If you stick to the small family businesses I think you will find service about the same. In fact in some of the smaller businesses now better, as the offspring are just working out that own business is better than being someones wage slave.

[dingdongrb]

canned fruit

I really can't understand how someone who lives in a country where fresh fruit is readily available and inexpensive eats fruit out of a can....

[masuk]

canned fruit

I really can't understand how someone who lives in a country where fresh fruit is readily available and inexpensive eats fruit out of a can....

thank you for your positive contribution to this forum.

[Oscar2]

canned fruit

I really can't understand how someone who lives in a country where fresh fruit is readily available and inexpensive eats fruit out of a can....

if you go into almost any Thai home you will find canned lychees in their kitchen. in our home my wife loves canned (or bottled) peaches as well as lychees as well as the fresh fruit. so it's not so cut and dry as you may think.

[Teak]

Service to the non Thai speakers has always been challenging in CM and beyond. In the 'old days' you would sit down in a restaurant and use your best Thai language skills to order. The waitress would dutifully take your order with a cute wai and off to the kitchen. After a half hour you are no longer able to be noticed and your waitress had disappeared into the back. They simply did not understand you and hoped you had the grace to simply leave. It was either the Bier Stubbe or correct your pronunciation. Not that hard to receive good service from someone that can actually understand you in their own country.

People seem to miss the Wai...maybe the people giving the Wai never received a reply.

The Wai is a tricky business...how high to reply ? There could be endless discussions on wai etiquette. Who goes first, how high...oh no, mine was higher than his, or mine was lower...but, I know he is more connected than myself and he deserved a higher wai. A wai can be given, but not retracted :-) But, to give a wai too high makes you look foolish. :-(

If you go to the same place often, try a simple dip of the head and a 'kawp' . Doesn't take much to connect.

As for CM...it has always been a place to get drunk, laid and get out. Still good for that.

.....Ken

When were thes "old days" ? That could mean a lot of different things to people on Thai Visa forums.

For myself, I cannot recall ever being completely ignored as some people have posted about in this topic. I have had something delivered in a restaurant that is not what I expected. I believe it has always been my fault in the language part of the order.

I also feel a bit different than "they should speak English to me" in any situation in Thailand. I try my best to communicate, and often I am not able. Then I excuse myself from the situation. I don't recall ever that the Thai person has disappeared.

I am just adding my experience..... I am not arguing the point. There are different experiences for sure. I believe many times a person's attitude can effect the perspective.

I believe my point was that sometimes the presumed rudeness or lack of observance to our perspective needs, on the part of the Thais, was simply an awkwardness to connect with a person from another language and culture.The onus is on us to accommodate those who we chose to live with. There are few of us who speak Thai properly, but, we can all strive to learn how to pronounce the food we wish to order or the alcohol we wish to drink ...let alone those cherished phrases we use to woo the the quarry of our pursuits. :-) The culture is like the traffic system.....it does work, regardless of our opinions. :-) As I said previously a wee nod of the head and a mere 'Kawp' shows a Thai salesperson that we offer respect. Not difficult and no loss of face. We 'white folk' are ambassadors of our race in Asia. Clearing a path for the next white folk is good. There was a time when the Farrang were less appreciated...now comes the Chinese...Hey... We have a second chance to be liked again !

...Ken

[TravelerEastWest]

I always enjoy watching someone go off the deep end because someone else observes something and wishes it were different.

Back to the topic in hand - of course Thailand's changing; it's become a much richer country. Thanks in part to the contributions to the economy by many folks posting on Thaivisa. But human development always lags economic growth and once there was a limited service sector attracting a handful of dedicated "cream of the crop" people and now there's a much bigger service sector with much less freedom to pick and choose the workforce. That's all that's happened really. Better economy = more expense and less service. At least in the short-term. In the long-run it means more expense and slowly improving service as companies begin to move away from price competition and quality of product competition and on to service based competition. No big deal.

I like your thoughts.

As for myself I think Chiang Mai has more buildings (OK with that) and more traffic (less OK with that but can't be helped) but the people haven't changed much.

Prices have gone up all over the world.

Basically I still like Chiang Mai - only complaint is the air pollution part of the year.

[cyberfarang]

No, he's right. There's been a change just in the past five years. Everything has become much more busy. Little touches of service have disappeared. Small stuff, but it adds up. For the most part, they no longer put your bags into your cart at Tops. The cashiers at Rim Ping often don't give that pretty little wai when they hand you your change. (The cashiers at Tops always were a little lazy about this).

When you go into the TV or household goods area of Central Dept store you can wander for hours and no one hovers, pointing to the item you're looking at making "helpful" observations like "blue" or "on-off". This used to annoy me, but now I miss it. The other day we went to Power Buy (part of the Central group) to purchase a clothes washing machine, same thing where Hubby and wandered around the store looking at every clothes washer (it should have been evident we were serious shoppers) and when we finally found someone who would make eye contact they had to go find the store manager to locate someone able to understand our poor attempts at Thai. Apparently he was the only one in the store who spoke English. Used to be more staff in places like this spoke English or at least made an attempt.

It's as if everyone is busier, more adsorbed in their phones, maybe studying Chinese now instead of English. I don't know. But there's definitely a different vibe.

typical American attitude to the natives why are they not treating my like royalty after all im a bigoted white American,with more money than you,i deserve respect and first class service, TIT.its there country and its you who should be giving them respect,

I think it`s to do with that as some people get older they become cranky and grouchy, bitter about everything in their old age and very difficult to deal with.

[12DrinkMore]

"service which used to be very personable has dropped a notch here with the younger generations seemingly unwilling to go the extra mile or perhaps just tired from the crowds we are seeing these days,"

the younger generation is totally useless and brain dead for the most part, faces glued to mobiles, reading shallow worthless garbage. you go in somewhere to do business and 80% of the time they don't want to put down the mobile and do the job they are getting paid to do.

i went to a friend's pharmacy last week. he wasn't in but had a girl there who i assume was a recent CMU graduate based upon her uniform. she was the only one in and had her earplugs in, watching something on her iPhone, laughing. there were 2 customers; me and a woman. she failed to notice either of us standing at the counter and we could not get her attention because the earplugs. the woman walked out. i rang my friend on his mobile as i stood there and told him the situation. he thanked me and said he saw the same thing when he came in the day before. she was fired a day or two later.

Your parents said EXACTLY the same about your generation.

All that has happened is that you are now in the older lot, and considered to be a boring old f4rt by the younger lot.

Welcome to the club.

[12DrinkMore]

canned fruit

I really can't understand how someone who lives in a country where fresh fruit is readily available and inexpensive eats fruit out of a can....

if you go into almost any Thai home you will find canned lychees in their kitchen. in our home my wife loves canned (or bottled) peaches as well as lychees as well as the fresh fruit. so it's not so cut and dry as you may think.

The like the sugar.

[Saladin]

Regarding ChiangMai traffic, while it might seem absurd right now, I think we should be looking at an underground commuter rail/through-road by-pass system. The Bangkok overways are a real eyesore. CniangMai streets are flat and straight and the traffic isn't so great as yet that an underground couldn't be built without paralysing the city as will be the case in a few years' time.

[MissAndry]

Regarding ChiangMai traffic, while it might seem absurd right now, I think we should be looking at an underground commuter rail/through-road by-pass system. The Bangkok overways are a real eyesore. CniangMai streets are flat and straight and the traffic isn't so great as yet that an underground couldn't be built without paralysing the city as will be the case in a few years' time.

I've never seen a problem with CM traffic, it's always warm, scooter, bicycle or walk.

I think CM should be looking at banning cars, or making car drivers pay to enter, like London.

[chrissables]

"service which used to be very personable has dropped a notch here with the younger generations seemingly unwilling to go the extra mile or perhaps just tired from the crowds we are seeing these days,"

the younger generation is totally useless and brain dead for the most part, faces glued to mobiles, reading shallow worthless garbage. you go in somewhere to do business and 80% of the time they don't want to put down the mobile and do the job they are getting paid to do.

i went to a friend's pharmacy last week. he wasn't in but had a girl there who i assume was a recent CMU graduate based upon her uniform. she was the only one in and had her earplugs in, watching something on her iPhone, laughing. there were 2 customers; me and a woman. she failed to notice either of us standing at the counter and we could not get her attention because the earplugs. the woman walked out. i rang my friend on his mobile as i stood there and told him the situation. he thanked me and said he saw the same thing when he came in the day before. she was fired a day or two later.

sincerely hope karma comes to bite you back one day,pathetic farang should be ashamed of your self.

Please explain the "pathetic farang" remark.

One, he was not served as a customer should be. Two the shop was owned by a friend. If you owned a business and staff were causing customers to leave, would you not want to know about it?

Or would you let your staff do as they pleased and still pay them? If so give me a job! Ashamed, you should be with your ignorance of life.