Killer robot used by Dallas police opens ethical debate

[williamgeorgeallen]

So the US government targeting civilians with missiles would be okay?

Waco Texas siege would now be handled by calling in an Air Strike?

The US is devolving into social chaos.

agreed. but is there any difference to the US govt taking out hundreds of other people in other countries which often kill the innocent with the so called guilty? the value of human life seems to be falling and with it will go society. i am not just talking about the killing of the black sniper but also the killing of all the cops. more and more people are seeing murder as justifiable to their cause or as a solution to their problems.

[stevenl]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

That's true.

For as long as I can remember, we've had an unwritten law in the U.S.. You kill a cop, the other cops will hunt you down and kill you.

I think that's the way it should be.

I'd like to know how you folk think the police may have been able to bring this crisis to a different ending?

Send him gifts and a letter nicely asking him to stop killing folk and come to the courthouse to see the judge?

It always amazes me how anyone with a keyboard becomes a law enforcement expert but on the same hand anyone holding a scalpel isn't instantly a surgeon.

55555

Did you read the post you're reacting to? Never mind, clearly not.

Of course I did. I'm not trying to argue with what he said, just add to it.

I tend to 'kind of' agree with his point. If you take a gun and start killing folk that's a bad thing, turn it on the cops that come to protect members of the community and ur stepping it up IMO.

I do not agree with what occurred between the other police and the original shooting, there's clearly a problem, isn't there?

Thanks. That just means the use of 'you folks' was confusing.

[neverdie]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

That's true.

For as long as I can remember, we've had an unwritten law in the U.S.. You kill a cop, the other cops will hunt you down and kill you.

I think that's the way it should be.

I'd like to know how you folk think the police may have been able to bring this crisis to a different ending?

Send him gifts and a letter nicely asking him to stop killing folk and come to the courthouse to see the judge?

It always amazes me how anyone with a keyboard becomes a law enforcement expert but on the same hand anyone holding a scalpel isn't instantly a surgeon.

55555

Did you read the post you're reacting to? Never mind, clearly not.

Of course I did. I'm not trying to argue with what he said, just add to it.

I tend to 'kind of' agree with his point. If you take a gun and start killing folk that's a bad thing, turn it on the cops that come to protect members of the community and ur stepping it up IMO.

I do not agree with what occurred between the other police and the original shooting, there's clearly a problem, isn't there?

Thanks. That just means the use of 'you folks' was confusing.

My bad. Sorry.

[2fishin2]

The US military has been using RPVs for years against suspected terrorists with a lot more collateral deaths of civilians than occurred in the Dallas parking garage taking this assassin out. It was definitely a "Bum Disposal" effort.

Please prove your statement with facts. We both know you cannot.

[2fishin2]

IMO they made the right call.

Absolutely not! That was an American citizen on American soil and should have been guaranteed due process of a fair trial. There were other options available - starve him out, he was cornered with nowhere to go. No water for three days, he would have come out or passed out. This is a dangerous precedent to set, police becoming judge, jury and executioner - Judge Dredd style. What this creep did was heinous and he would have been convicted without a doubt. Next time a cop gets angry about someone failing to signal, will they start calling in drone strikes? Of course this is a ridiculous comparison, but the logic sustains it. NO American should get bombed to death without a trial of their peers.

LOL your post and comparison is so ridiculous I dont have a comeback LOL

[up2u2]

So the US government targeting civilians with missiles would be okay?

Waco Texas siege would now be handled by calling in an Air Strike?

The US is devolving into social chaos.

agreed. but is there any difference to the US govt taking out hundreds of other people in other countries which often kill the innocent with the so called guilty? the value of human life seems to be falling and with it will go society. i am not just talking about the killing of the black sniper but also the killing of all the cops. more and more people are seeing murder as justifiable to their cause or as a solution to their problems.

Only in America and the Middle East my friend. Civilised developed nations hold fast to the core value of respecting human life black or white. The US seems to lose it's mind and jettison core values at the slightest provocation. This situation would not occur in those Nations. The police force simply would not have the authority to use an explosive device or weapons of war against its citizens. End of discussion. The police who authorised this would be taken into custody. It would not even become an ethical debate. It would be deemed an act of war existing between the State and its citizens. Recently in Australia a Police officer drew his gun on a traffic stop. He is no longer serving as a Police officer. Immediate dismissal. Please don't suggest that other developed civilised Nations around the World blow their citizens up and accept it as 'justified'. They do not.

[Bunnychow]

Sensationalist headline at best...there is no ethical debate, the "robot" was under the control of a human being and the decision to kill was made by the human not the robot, no different from pilot flying an Apache helicopter and opening firing on people or a submarine captain lauching a torpedo from a nuclear sub

[up2u2]

Sensationalist headline at best...there is no ethical debate, the "robot" was under the control of a human being and the decision to kill was made by the human not the robot, no different from pilot flying an Apache helicopter and opening firing on people or a submarine captain lauching a torpedo from a nuclear sub

So you are saying the US State is at war with its citizens. All means of military weaponry can be invoked. Drone strikes?

Apache helicopter assaults are sanctioned against US citizens. Nuclear option directed at US citizens?

All okay?

Do Americans actually think things through?

[stevenl]

IMO they made the right call.

Absolutely not! That was an American citizen on American soil and should have been guaranteed due process of a fair trial. There were other options available - starve him out, he was cornered with nowhere to go. No water for three days, he would have come out or passed out. This is a dangerous precedent to set, police becoming judge, jury and executioner - Judge Dredd style. What this creep did was heinous and he would have been convicted without a doubt. Next time a cop gets angry about someone failing to signal, will they start calling in drone strikes? Of course this is a ridiculous comparison, but the logic sustains it. NO American should get bombed to death without a trial of their peers.

LOL your post and comparison is so ridiculous I dont have a comeback LOL

The real funny thing is that he knows it, so first writes 'this is a ridiculous comparison', only to be followed by 'logic sustains it'. Talk about logic

[stevenl]

Sensationalist headline at best...there is no ethical debate, the "robot" was under the control of a human being and the decision to kill was made by the human not the robot, no different from pilot flying an Apache helicopter and opening firing on people or a submarine captain lauching a torpedo from a nuclear sub

So you are saying the US State is at war with its citizens. All means of military weaponry can be invoked. Drone strikes?

Apache helicopter assaults are sanctioned against US citizens. Nuclear option directed at US citizens?

All okay?

Do Americans actually think things through?

Yes, strange comparison there.

But in the case at hand, the police decided to use the robot. Now I presume they made that decision because they saw no alternative without putting the life of more people at risk. That makes it a valid and good decision IMO. Especially since at that point there were still many uncertainties, so I presume the police would have really preferred to get their hands on him alive.

[nakhonandy]

All of this is a mater of bad politicians and people are done with rational thinking these guy was a soldier and went fighting for his country he probably had bad vision and thinking he was still at war.

So send people to fight a cruel war and you get feed back from them.There is a lot of bureaucratic problems.

He thought he was still at war? What rubbish, this was a planned malicious attack on the Dallas Police.

Many veterans come back from wars, damaged a bit sure, however with a very minor exception they don't going around deliberately killing people.

The police would definitely have wanted this man alive, he made this decision, the police had little choice in the matter.

[chrisinth]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

What would have been the difference, extrajudicial wise, if a police marksman had the shot and taken him out? I am 100% sure that protocol was in place if the oppertunity presented itself.

Would there be argument against the sniper defusing the situation with a killshot?

[up2u2]

All of this is a mater of bad politicians and people are done with rational thinking these guy was a soldier and went fighting for his country he probably had bad vision and thinking he was still at war.

So send people to fight a cruel war and you get feed back from them.There is a lot of bureaucratic problems.

He thought he was still at war? What rubbish, this was a planned malicious attack on the Dallas Police.

Many veterans come back from wars, damaged a bit sure, however with a very minor exception they don't going around deliberately killing people.

The police would definitely have wanted this man alive, he made this decision, the police had little choice in the matter.

"the police would have really preferred to get their hands on him alive"

This is the type of thinking that brings America to exactly this type of catastrophic events. The Police were no match for this gunmen. He was fearless the Police totally lost their minds with fear and confusion and simply did not have the training to handle one lone gunmen. Short of a bomb the Police were out of their depth very quickly.

"the police had little choice in the matter."

Really, what about secure the area sit and wait him out. Pretty extreme option I know.

[PTC]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

Hogwash. This man gave up the right to judicial proceeding or legal process when he continually fired on and murdered the police.

Micah Johnson was engaged in political speech. This places his actions in an entirely different ethical context. Whether or not you agree with its content or method of delivery, you can be sure that there will be those who feel that it is legitimate to support this expression on a political level.

Your Taliban style solution to this issue is unfortunately all to be expected from a certain demographic. Perhaps you should leave discussions on ethics to those who are not constrained by their prejudice and return to watching Fox and Friends. I am sure Doocy has some brilliant observation about something.

[Pimay1]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

Hogwash. This man gave up the right to judicial proceeding or legal process when he continually fired on and murdered the police.

Micah Johnson was engaged in political speech. This places his actions in an entirely different ethical context. Whether or not you agree with its content or method of delivery, you can be sure that there will be those who feel that it is legitimate to support this expression on a political level.

Your Taliban style solution to this issue is unfortunately all to be expected from a certain demographic. Perhaps you should leave discussions on ethics to those who are not constrained by their prejudice and return to watching Fox and Friends. I am sure Doocy has some brilliant observation about something.

So you watch Fox and Friends. I don't. And I'm glad you're not a judge with your attitude.

[PTC]

So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing...........

Hogwash. This man gave up the right to judicial proceeding or legal process when he continually fired on and murdered the police.

Micah Johnson was engaged in political speech. This places his actions in an entirely different ethical context. Whether or not you agree with its content or method of delivery, you can be sure that there will be those who feel that it is legitimate to support this expression on a political level.

Your Taliban style solution to this issue is unfortunately all to be expected from a certain demographic. Perhaps you should leave discussions on ethics to those who are not constrained by their prejudice and return to watching Fox and Friends. I am sure Doocy has some brilliant observation about something.

So you watch Fox and Friends. I don't. And I'm glad you're not a judge with your attitude.

Well, how can anyone respond adequately to that.

Here's some Chomsky for you. https://chomsky.info/19671215/ Kind of puts your Taliban mentality into perspective.

[zaZa9]

It is not a robot. It is controlled by a man, if it shoots or explodes it does so because of the input of a man giving permission to do so....

As opposed to a real robot , which would have a good long think before blowing itself up ??

[wwest5829]

Have been reading different reports on this usage. My thought asks why non- lethal force was not the first choice? Stun grenade? Knock out gas? If non-lethal means are not successful, that is when lethal means are considered. These options are exhausted, certainly I want to protect police lives.

The other thing that is brought to my mind is that the shooter as a veteran. We do not know if he was mentally affected by his military experiences. It appears he could have used some help.

There are a millions of veterans out there today that are NOT killing people.Using the ( Oh poor me ,I was effected by my experiences) is no excuse.This Axxhole was sent home by the army for discipline acts.

Because one veteran is not affected' it does not mean another is not affected. Was he an Axxhole? Perhaps you are privy to more knowledge about him than the rest of us. My point was, we're all non-lethal means exhausted before blowing up with a bomb. Guess that is consistent in my thinking about applying the use of deadly force.

[Pimay1]

Hogwash. This man gave up the right to judicial proceeding or legal process when he continually fired on and murdered the police.

Micah Johnson was engaged in political speech. This places his actions in an entirely different ethical context. Whether or not you agree with its content or method of delivery, you can be sure that there will be those who feel that it is legitimate to support this expression on a political level.

Your Taliban style solution to this issue is unfortunately all to be expected from a certain demographic. Perhaps you should leave discussions on ethics to those who are not constrained by their prejudice and return to watching Fox and Friends. I am sure Doocy has some brilliant observation about something.

So you watch Fox and Friends. I don't. And I'm glad you're not a judge with your attitude.

Well, how can anyone respond adequately to that.

Here's some Chomsky for you. https://chomsky.info/19671215/ Kind of puts your Taliban mentality into perspective.

We will agree to disagree.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Pimay1