70 bike racers arrested after being chased by police and soldiers to dead end on Rama 3

[siam2007]

Wonderful. Something the police seem to have been unable to do without the army's help.

the reason probably is that many of these racers could be the offspring of police officers and therefore think they are immune to such raids

[Redline]

Slight penalties will be administered~in 2 weeks they will change the time to 8:30~same day every weekend, figuring they are so smart, noboy will think it's the same crew

[Mudcrab]

rrrrright - 7 days in a boot camp will certainly change them to the better...

How about 4 years of forced labour?

How about simply destroying all bikes, no matter if any tax has been paid or not since all bikes certainly have been fiddled with, making them unsafe, plus would "bike is gone for good" whenever they are caught frighten them even more than the stupid boot camp vacation...

However, it's at least start... We'll see how it pans out in the long run. I see no hope until stricter measures are implemented and that means - years of hard labour and bikes destroyed pubically for all to see.

Sounds like you are jealous and frustrated that you don't have any power. good thing too.

Dear God 4 years forced labour....are you for real??

Years of hard labour and bikes destroyed publicly...why not public execution by beheading...would that make you happy?

Death by firing squad for drink drivers?

Visa runners? Overstayers? Forgot your 90 day report?...Sorry mate - public execution of your wife and kids as well as you, all your assets confiscated...

No work permit...include any in-laws in the execution list as well

That should get the message out loud and clear don't you think?

These are kids on bikes..get a grip old mate. Traffic offences - got it?

[outre99]

Heavy handed knee-jerk response to the road safety problem. Punishing parents will not address the issue.

If you want to help the kids rather than bootcamp, how about an proper rider training course instead? Use the time to improve their skills rather than just punish them for being kids!

These kids first need to be taught that there are consequences to their actions. Neither their parents nor the schools teach them that. Redirection programs can start after that. If the limits are not set why would they stop doing it?

[CarolJadzia]

Heavy handed knee-jerk response to the road safety problem. Punishing parents will not address the issue.

If you want to help the kids rather than bootcamp, how about an proper rider training course instead? Use the time to improve their skills rather than just punish them for being kids!

Stop dreaming. A training course would be a waste of time and money, but a 3 months boot camp (24/7) might just do the trick.

Yes, of course. Imprisonment is the answer. After all it has worked for the drugs problem!

Oh hold on a min, is Thailand not just realised that imprisoning all the drug takers has failed because it just fills up prisons rather than address the ever increasing drugs problem?

Maybe all these horrible nasty criminal teenager riders can fill all the spaces in the prisons left by the change of policy to the drug takers?

You cannot enforce safety on a system.

Training does work, it is the approach used in all the countries with the lowest road accident statistics.

More carrot, less stick.

[CarolJadzia]

Heavy handed knee-jerk response to the road safety problem. Punishing parents will not address the issue.

If you want to help the kids rather than bootcamp, how about an proper rider training course instead? Use the time to improve their skills rather than just punish them for being kids!

These kids first need to be taught that there are consequences to their actions. Neither their parents nor the schools teach them that. Redirection programs can start after that. If the limits are not set why would they stop doing it?

Maybe if you watched the video I posted in the response you are replying to, or read the modern research on how the adolescent brain changes, you will understand that just trying to enforce change on teenagers will never work.

They are programmed to rebel, enforcement makes the issue worse, not better. They will not see it as the consequence of their actions, just unnecessary enforcement trying to restrict their freedom. It makes the situation worse not better.

[SOTIRIOS]

...banned from driving for 10 years.....

...and automatic 2-year sentence for repeat offense....

...might help....

[MyFriend You]

Heavy handed knee-jerk response to the road safety problem. Punishing parents will not address the issue.

If you want to help the kids rather than bootcamp, how about an proper rider training course instead? Use the time to improve their skills rather than just punish them for being kids!

What?? Oh, wait a minute there will be no changing your mind, so I won't waste my time............

These kids got what they deserved, in my youth, you would go to Juvie or Reform School so maybe a week of basic training and re-education by the Military will change at least some of them.

rider training courses?? Oh yeah, that will stop them from racing or sure.........I say Motorcycle confiscation for at least the rest of the summer until school starts, if they don't go to school, six months.

If unlicensed revoke privilege until they are 18 years old.

[MyFriend You]

rrrrright - 7 days in a boot camp will certainly change them to the better...

How about 4 years of forced labour?

How about simply destroying all bikes, no matter if any tax has been paid or not since all bikes certainly have been fiddled with, making them unsafe, plus would "bike is gone for good" whenever they are caught frighten them even more than the stupid boot camp vacation...

However, it's at least start... We'll see how it pans out in the long run. I see no hope until stricter measures are implemented and that means - years of hard labour and bikes destroyed pubically for all to see.

Sounds like you are jealous and frustrated that you don't have any power. good thing too.

Dear God 4 years forced labour....are you for real??

Years of hard labour and bikes destroyed publicly...why not public execution by beheading...would that make you happy?

Death by firing squad for drink drivers?

Visa runners? Overstayers? Forgot your 90 day report?...Sorry mate - public execution of your wife and kids as well as you, all your assets confiscated...

No work permit...include any in-laws in the execution list as well

That should get the message out loud and clear don't you think?

These are kids on bikes..get a grip old mate. Traffic offences - got it?

Death by firing squad for drink drivers? Yes if it caused the death of an innocent pedestrian or bicyclist, life in prison if it caused the death of someone else driving.

[CarolJadzia]

That's the problem with enforcers, their only answer to everything is violence and more enforcement.

I wonder why they choose to live in a Buddhist country then assume that their imported violence is the answer to everything?

Fortunately it is not.

There is a different approach that is gaining momentum around the world and it is not based of forcing others to do things through violence and suppression - fortunately!

Here is a balanced article from Safety Professionals which discusses the history of Safety in the workplace. To many of us the road is our workplace. Even if not the same thinking applies.

Hypercompliance

"With tougher rules and higher penalties, it makes sense that incidents should diminish.
The truth is that any approach loses effectiveness at a certain point."

http://aeasseincludes.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/061/07/F2_0716.pdf

But of course correspondence bias and fundamental attribution error means people will contest this, so many stuck in the old enforcement approach they are not prepared to consider anything new.

Good luck in your outdated thinking and assuming you can enforce safety. Maybe it will take you another fifty years of failure to see the light? Maybe? good luck.

[halloween]

That's the problem with enforcers, their only answer to everything is violence and more enforcement.

I wonder why they choose to live in a Buddhist country then assume that their imported violence is the answer to everything?

Fortunately it is not.

There is a different approach that is gaining momentum around the world and it is not based of forcing others to do things through violence and suppression - fortunately!

Here is a balanced article from Safety Professionals which discusses the history of Safety in the workplace. To many of us the road is our workplace. Even if not the same thinking applies.

Hypercompliance

"With tougher rules and higher penalties, it makes sense that incidents should diminish.

The truth is that any approach loses effectiveness at a certain point."

http://aeasseincludes.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/061/07/F2_0716.pdf

But of course correspondence bias and fundamental attribution error means people will contest this, so many stuck in the old enforcement approach they are not prepared to consider anything new.

Good luck in your outdated thinking and assuming you can enforce safety. Maybe it will take you another fifty years of failure to see the light? Maybe? good luck.

I agree that many of the suggested penalties in this thread were excessive. I also note that you didn't offer any alternative suggestion.

[metisdead]

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[CarolJadzia]

That's the problem with enforcers, their only answer to everything is violence and more enforcement.

I wonder why they choose to live in a Buddhist country then assume that their imported violence is the answer to everything?

Fortunately it is not.

There is a different approach that is gaining momentum around the world and it is not based of forcing others to do things through violence and suppression - fortunately!

Here is a balanced article from Safety Professionals which discusses the history of Safety in the workplace. To many of us the road is our workplace. Even if not the same thinking applies.

Hypercompliance

"With tougher rules and higher penalties, it makes sense that incidents should diminish.

The truth is that any approach loses effectiveness at a certain point."

http://aeasseincludes.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/061/07/F2_0716.pdf

But of course correspondence bias and fundamental attribution error means people will contest this, so many stuck in the old enforcement approach they are not prepared to consider anything new.

Good luck in your outdated thinking and assuming you can enforce safety. Maybe it will take you another fifty years of failure to see the light? Maybe? good luck.

I agree that many of the suggested penalties in this thread were excessive. I also note that you didn't offer any alternative suggestion.

Did you read the article?

Yes I have earlier also mentioned an alternative, instead of boot camp, proper training.

Also there are already alternatives in operation, places to let the riders go and race and let off steam in a controlled environment.

This initiative is already happening and getting good results:-

[Chao Lao Beach]

Moped Scooter bandits

[Guitar God]

I'm not normally a big fan of the police but I don't see a problem with the penalties here. In most places in the US, reckless driving will get your car impounded, you arrested and a big fine or jail time depending on the circumstances.

Lift your front wheel off the ground when taking off on a bike in the Netherlands and a cop sees you and you just lost your license. No suspension, it's gone forever. Want a new one? Spend 2-3000 on mandatory lessons and taking the three tests over again.

No sympathy here for gangs of kids blocking off public highways every week for illegal street racing.

[CarolJadzia]

I'm not normally a big fan of the police but I don't see a problem with the penalties here. In most places in the US, reckless driving will get your car impounded, you arrested and a big fine or jail time depending on the circumstances.

Lift your front wheel off the ground when taking off on a bike in the Netherlands and a cop sees you and you just lost your license. No suspension, it's gone forever. Want a new one? Spend 2-3000 on mandatory lessons and taking the three tests over again.

No sympathy here for gangs of kids blocking off public highways every week for illegal street racing.

And of course the USA has a perfect road safety record? Oh hold on a minute, the WHO statistics paint a different picture with America not doing as well as Europe by a long way.

You also mention the Netherlands, A country with a full proper rider education programme that fully supports it's road users in gaining the skills and experience to safely share the roads together, So your comparison only supports my suggestion for better road user training in Thailand rather than just constant heavy handed enforcement. Also it is very naive and just shows your correspondence bias to assume the Netherlands have dealt with the problem through enforcement.

You cannot enforce safety on a system, only rule following and only then when people feel the presence of enforcers. Teenagers will be teenagers, they have evolved to be that way, good luck challenging evolution with a stick!

We are now discussing the concept of "Hypercompliance" in Road Safety Professional forums, this tracks the history of workplace safety.

Hypercompliance Hypercompliance is increasing rules and legislated standards to a higher level in order to ostensibly achieve better safety performance. It is a human trait to look at things in terms of structure. If events are not going exactly as planned or there are an unacceptable number of incidents, perhaps something new is needed to get past the current plateau. In such instances, more controls or rules are sometimes added to ensure uniform employee expectations and guidance.

With tougher rules and higher penalties, it makes sense that incidents should diminish. The truth is that any approach loses effectiveness at a certain point

Hypercompliance is a step back in time for safety and it flies in the face of all we have learned about human motivation, involvement and resultant safety performance.

http://aeasseincludes.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/061/07/F2_0716.pdf

[Guitar God]

The only road training that's going to keep drivers here from doing illegal and dangerous things is training which tells them what the penalty will be when they get caught and seeing enough enforcement so they're convinced that they probably will get caught.

I've been riding motorcycles since 1971, I still paid 3k euros and took the 50+ hours it took to get a motorcycle license in the Netherlands. Nothing in the training discouraged me from popping wheelies and speeding except the mention of fines and penalties. I didn't become a more lawful driver because of the training, it was the threat of punishment.

In Thailand I drive defensively, I don't do things which put other drivers in danger, I don't pull out in front of them if they have to slam on their brakes and swerve into the other lane, I follow the flow of the traffic, I drive safely. I follow most of the rules but I have no problem going 90 on a deserted road with the speedlimit is 60, I have no problem crossing double yellow lines when passing if there's no oncoming traffic. I don't sit at long red lights in the middle of the night if I'm the only car around.

In the US I've been ticketed for having my tire touch a center line., Driving 3 mph over the limit, not coming to a dead stop at a stopsign, not signaling early enough, going through a yellow light.
In the Netherlands I'm constantly getting speeding tickets from trajectory control cameras and speed cameras for going 1 or 2 kph over the limit. I got stopped for not enough tire tread, stopped because my vehicle inspection was two days overdue.

Has all my drivers training made me a safer driver? Well, in the U.S. I spend a lot of time making sure my tires don't touch the center line and if I see a cop and I'm going 37 in a 35 I make sure to slam on my brakes, I punch it if I'm entering an intersection and the light turns yellow. In the Netherlands I don't do wheelies not because it isn't safe, it's because i don't want to lose my license, be out 2k and have to take my tests over.

A stiff fine and vehicle confiscation has a much better chance of reducing the amount of illegal street racing here than better drivers training will. Blocking off public roads every weekend in major cities in the US or Europe would last about a half hour there.

I'm not normally a big fan of the police but I don't see a problem with the penalties here. In most places in the US, reckless driving will get your car impounded, you arrested and a big fine or jail time depending on the circumstances.

Lift your front wheel off the ground when taking off on a bike in the Netherlands and a cop sees you and you just lost your license. No suspension, it's gone forever. Want a new one? Spend 2-3000 on mandatory lessons and taking the three tests over again.

No sympathy here for gangs of kids blocking off public highways every week for illegal street racing.

And of course the USA has a perfect road safety record? Oh hold on a minute, the WHO statistics paint a different picture with America not doing as well as Europe by a long way.

You also mention the Netherlands, A country with a full proper rider education programme that fully supports it's road users in gaining the skills and experience to safely share the roads together, So your comparison only supports my suggestion for better road user training in Thailand rather than just constant heavy handed enforcement. Also it is very naive and just shows your correspondence bias to assume the Netherlands have dealt with the problem through enforcement.

You cannot enforce safety on a system, only rule following and only then when people feel the presence of enforcers. Teenagers will be teenagers, they have evolved to be that way, good luck challenging evolution with a stick!

We are now discussing the concept of "Hypercompliance" in Road Safety Professional forums, this tracks the history of workplace safety.

Hypercompliance Hypercompliance is increasing rules and legislated standards to a higher level in order to ostensibly achieve better safety performance. It is a human trait to look at things in terms of structure. If events are not going exactly as planned or there are an unacceptable number of incidents, perhaps something new is needed to get past the current plateau. In such instances, more controls or rules are sometimes added to ensure uniform employee expectations and guidance.

With tougher rules and higher penalties, it makes sense that incidents should diminish. The truth is that any approach loses effectiveness at a certain point

Hypercompliance is a step back in time for safety and it flies in the face of all we have learned about human motivation, involvement and resultant safety performance.

http://aeasseincludes.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/061/07/F2_0716.pdf

[Moonmoon]

good job now lets catch those on bangna trad next pls