Wine for the "Uneducated Palate"

[cnxkoolpunt9]

A person really doesn't need to have an "Educated Palate" to enjoy a wine. If you like a wine, then that wine is for you. This has gone on for ages. An undisclosed wine enthusiast from centuries ago aptly stated: "De gustibus non est disputandum. " If you like a wine, then it's a good wine for you.

[kokopelli]

I have enjoyed reading this discussion on wine including the fruit juice variety. Having drunk wine for 50 years I know something about it but , for sure, not a wine snob. For those you can't taste the difference between good and mediocre wine you may have not had a chance to taste something good? My Thai friend, who never drank wine before, can easily taste the difference when it comes to wine especially if it costs 1000 Baht or more! But, in Thailand, very difficult to find something good at a reasonable price.

Currently in USA where wines from Calif, Oregon, Washington states are very good at $10 USD/350Baht/ bottle. Plus wines from Australia, NZ, France etc all at reasonable prices. However, especially with reds, as the price and age of the bottle increases so does not quality and difference in taste is quite noticeable.

As for Mont Clair, it is a blend of wine that originates in South Africa and is reconstituted in Thailand with some local ingredients. Foul stuff but I do drink the red since only thing available in most bars. Probably why I have a constant headache while in Thailand.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

I prefer hops wine, beter in this climate.

[craigt3365]

*SIGH* I knew the wine snobs couldn't resist. The "fruit wine", which is "not a wine", called Knight Black Horse Wolf II contains "some unspecified amount" of "cabernet sauvignon shiraz grapes"; and has an alcohol content of 13%. Whatever it is, at 299 baht per bottle, I find it tasty. I'm sure that if I chose to drink several glasses of it (which I don't), I'd also find it as intoxicating as a "$300" bottle of "real wine".

If you just want to get intoxicated, spirits are a better, and cheaper, choice. And yes. There's a huge difference in taste. And a huge difference the morning after! LOL

[craigt3365]

I mostly gave up on wine after I moved to Thailand.

I can't afford to be a wine snob or a wine anything here!

But the deceptive labeling on the fruit juice wine, which I fell for a few a times before I wised up, that it is so LOW.

I haven't purchased wine in the west for many years, but i doubt that these fruit wines offered by Australian and other foreign companies, are produced solely for Thailand.

I suspect that they are also sold with the same box and descriptions in most other countries in the world.

You don't get it. They're mixed in with wine and the labels are very deceptive. They try to trick people into thinking they're buying wine. That would NOT happen in the west!

I think YOU don't get it. Since the labels are printed in the foreign countries and are in English language, I doubt they are printed ONLY for Thailand, a country that is pretty small on the wine sales scale.

So I'm pretty confident that the same box and printing is on the shelves in western countries.

These wines are produced and labeled here in Thailand. Read my previous link. Very deceptive.

[craigt3365]

A person really doesn't need to have an "Educated Palate" to enjoy a wine. If you like a wine, then that wine is for you. This has gone on for ages. An undisclosed wine enthusiast from centuries ago aptly stated: "De gustibus non est disputandum. " If you like a wine, then it's a good wine for you.

I think if you took the price out of the equation, people's preferences would change radically. My father always said he couldn't tell the difference between good and bad wine. Because he always bought the cheapest he could get!

I've had $300 bottles I didn't like. I've had $5 bottles I loved! Sadly, $5 drinkable bottles are not available in Thailand.

[Stew41]

Been here 3 months now after selling up in Melbourne and purchasing a business in Phuket. Amongst other things we owned wine stores in Australia and this certainly hasn't helped me adjust to the wine scene here in Thailand (ie I have to actually pay for the stuff now!).

Anyway I'm a bit 'value' orientated so try not to stray too far above 700 baht too often. We do most of our buying at Villa Market (convenience more than anything else) and I can honestly say that range at the low end is somewhat better than I had expected. Some standouts have included the Barwang 'Wall' label (500 baht), Cumulus/Climbing labels (600 - 780 baht) and Cecchi from Chianti (various sangiovese blends 600 - 700 baht). We've also had some decent low(ish) Bordeaux reds for around 700 baht which really did surprise but I've concentrated on strong vintages (ie 2009/2010) with these.

Cumulus also do a few fruit wine labels at 300 - 400 baht which I will try. Nearly certain these would be local market specific.

[JESSVANPELT]

Number one rule of thumb with wine when hosting a get together, always serve the best wine first, after that the taste buds are gone and your guests won't care about the next few lessor quality bottles...Cheers

[Torrens54]

I have never bought a bottle under $300 USD, and I have bought thousands.

Sometimes I fly to the vineyard.....

Please, it is your body, only put in the best!!!!

My taste buds peak at $3.99.

Sorry BUT in Thailand, $3.99 won't even buy you a Chateau Le Cardboard, RED NED.

[ozyjon]

Drink many bottles of wine, when you taste the one you

like, stick to that one.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm like the OP. I can't tell a good wine from a mediocre one.

I think that applies to most people. A lot of them just pretend to know what they are drinking. You and the OP are just less pretentious than most!

[rasg]

Quite a few years ago there were a pool of experts who were asked by one of the newspapers to blind test a dozen bottles of champagne. Only one got it vaguely right. The winner was up against £300 bottles of vintage champagne and was a £20 bottle from Sainsburys. It told me all I needed to know about the so called wine experts.

Gilly Goolden used to make me itch and would describe wine as flinty, and all sorts of other rubbish.

Red wine is all I drink nowadays, In Thailand they seem to stick it in the fridge wherever I have been. The best I ever found was a bottle of Jacobs Creek, probably a Merlot or a Shiraz in a nice hotel in the North East. £40! Double the price of the room and the same price as the meal for two people in the very good hotel restaurant. I like what I like and that's it.

A Merlot or a Malbec suits me fine and when I have a class of a good one that I like and make sure I get a photo of the label just in case I see it again.

[Thailand J]

I have tried just about all the cheap boxed wines here, to me Castle Creek is much better then the rest.

I like Jimberoo with the purple box but it's not easy to find.

[SunLover2]

My current favourite is called Barefoot, it is from California, available in the Villa, I think that it is 699 baht a bottle.

As an example of the Thailand price markup: Barefoot 750ml (all varieties) is readily available in the US for $6.99 plus sales tax, so say $7.50 or approx. 260 baht.

SL

[craigt3365]

My current favourite is called Barefoot, it is from California, available in the Villa, I think that it is 699 baht a bottle.

As an example of the Thailand price markup: Barefoot 750ml (all varieties) is readily available in the US for $6.99 plus sales tax, so say $7.50 or approx. 260 baht.

SL

A friend went to Hong Kong and found a bottle of Malbec I like. Here in Thailand, 700B or so. In HK, $7. Same bottle, same year. A ridiculous $13 difference.

[KNJ]

Next time you have a bottle of wine, any cheap 'non fruit' variety, of red invite a couple of friends over.

Make sure you have two decent red wine glasses, try this experiment:

1. Pour out a glass of wine,

2 Now put the cork back in the bottle and shake it like hell to get air into it.Now pour out another glass.

3. divide the remaining 4 glasses into a cardboard cup, whiskey tumbler, champagne flute and a coffee cup

Sample them all, if you cannot taste the difference and if number 2 is not the best, then stick with beer

Really a decent glass will greatly enhance the experience, if you do not have them, go and buy them, it does make an enormous difference

And really getting the air into the wine, makes an even bigger difference, until you have tried this simple trick you do not know what you are missing.

Regarding storing wine, I would personally trust Isetan in Central Bangkok, although I have not been there a number of years, they used to have a reasonable selection if you wanted something decent.

[SoiBiker]

I've heard of people using a blender, but I've never tried it myself.

I find the cheap white stuff is just about drinkable with ice in. Only just though.

[moon0205]

In Pattaya most of the markets such as Friendship carry imported "bubbly" wine commonly referred to as champagne. I don't recall the specific prices but in range of 1000-1500 Baht.

A nice one is from NZ, Oyster Bay, but likely more expensive.

Finally someone got it right by mentioning NZ wine. The Savignon Blanc from the Northern part of NZ south island is outstanding, if you are into good whites. Unfortunately the truly best of them is the Cloudy Bay (now 3.200 Bt at Villa. This being way too much, go for any other "Bay" origin there like Oyster Bay, and you get rewarded for around 700 Bt.
For Reds at an affordable price I found various Merlot Wines from Chile and sometimes S. Africa very good (500-600 Bt).

Thanks to

patsfangr

for starting this topic. But, please, let's not consume blended stuff from Thai "wineries". They are made for people who appreciate Blue Nun or Liebfrauenmilch - aarrgggh

[KNJ]

In Pattaya most of the markets such as Friendship carry imported "bubbly" wine commonly referred to as champagne. I don't recall the specific prices but in range of 1000-1500 Baht.

A nice one is from NZ, Oyster Bay, but likely more expensive.

Finally someone got it right by mentioning NZ wine. The Savignon Blanc from the Northern part of NZ south island is outstanding, if you are into good whites. Unfortunately the truly best of them is the Cloudy Bay (now 3.200 Bt at Villa. This being way too much, go for any other "Bay" origin there like Oyster Bay, and you get rewarded for around 700 Bt.

For Reds at an affordable price I found various Merlot Wines from Chile and sometimes S. Africa very good (500-600 Bt).

Thanks to

patsfangr

for starting this topic. But, please, let's not consume blended stuff from Thai "wineries". They are made for people who appreciate Blue Nun or Liebfrauenmilch - aarrgggh

I'll second that and Cloudy Bay Red is even better than their white

[topt]

In Pattaya most of the markets such as Friendship carry imported "bubbly" wine commonly referred to as champagne. I don't recall the specific prices but in range of 1000-1500 Baht.

A nice one is from NZ, Oyster Bay, but likely more expensive.

Finally someone got it right by mentioning NZ wine. The Savignon Blanc from the Northern part of NZ south island is outstanding, if you are into good whites. Unfortunately the truly best of them is the Cloudy Bay (now 3.200 Bt at Villa. This being way too much, go for any other "Bay" origin there like Oyster Bay, and you get rewarded for around 700 Bt.

For Reds at an affordable price I found various Merlot Wines from Chile and sometimes S. Africa very good (500-600 Bt).

Thanks to

patsfangr

for starting this topic. But, please, let's not consume blended stuff from Thai "wineries". They are made for people who appreciate Blue Nun or Liebfrauenmilch - aarrgggh

Now you are being snobbish. Many people start off on med sweet wines because it suits their taste buds. Many move on to try others and develop different tastes. At the end of the day if they still prefer med sweet then up to them - my mother RIP was one such no matter how many different wines I brought over for her to try.........

[JAS21]

We tried this wine at a recent OTOP Show. Even my wife quite liked it and she doesn't normally drink wine or in fact any alcohol! ... we bough a bottle. Decided at home that we definitely liked it so looked on the internet to see about ordering a few bottles.

We paid 300Baht a bottle at the show ... ordering the 12 bottles came to 3300Baht with fee delivery.

It's fruity .... I gave a bottle to a friend ... said if you don't like it, it will definitely clean your drains ...

We bought the 'vintage' 2010.

To me, if you like it drink it ..it's the most pleasant cheap wine that I have ever consumed.

[patsfangr]

In Pattaya most of the markets such as Friendship carry imported "bubbly" wine commonly referred to as champagne. I don't recall the specific prices but in range of 1000-1500 Baht.

A nice one is from NZ, Oyster Bay, but likely more expensive.

Finally someone got it right by mentioning NZ wine. The Savignon Blanc from the Northern part of NZ south island is outstanding, if you are into good whites. Unfortunately the truly best of them is the Cloudy Bay (now 3.200 Bt at Villa. This being way too much, go for any other "Bay" origin there like Oyster Bay, and you get rewarded for around 700 Bt.

For Reds at an affordable price I found various Merlot Wines from Chile and sometimes S. Africa very good (500-600 Bt).

Thanks to

patsfangr

for starting this topic. But, please, let's not consume blended stuff from Thai "wineries". They are made for people who appreciate Blue Nun or Liebfrauenmilch - aarrgggh

Now you are being snobbish. Many people start off on med sweet wines because it suits their taste buds. Many move on to try others and develop different tastes. At the end of the day if they still prefer med sweet then up to them - my mother RIP was one such no matter how many different wines I brought over for her to try.........

While I started this thread with a discussion of cheap red wines, I strongly prefer champagne, or sparkling white wines, and other white wines. I rarely drink more than 2 glasses of red wine, and enjoy it only with meals. Champagne, OTOH, could break the bank for me, if I let it be so. I became a fan of champagne by starting on expensive stuff while serving in Vietnam. We could buy a bottle of Mumm Cordon Rouge in the PX for $5 ... yes, not a misprint, $5! I loved it, and always drank a full bottle when I opened one. I knew nothing about champagne costs at that time; so I didn't truly appreciate what I had until I got home, where I found that the same stuff I'd been drinking in Vietnam cost about $30 a bottle in California (this was in 1971). Sadly, the frequency with which I enjoyed it dropped significantly! :-)

My favorite champagne in the USA, which was within my economic reach, was Korbel; which then sold for about $7 a bottle. I've since experimented with a lot of sparkling white wines (which cannot be labeled as "champagne" in the USA); and found that I definitely prefer them over any other type of wine when drinking more than a glass or two. And, in the case of this type of wine, I can definitely identify a really cheap one from a moderately priced one. There's also a noticeable difference in the reaction to high consumption of it the next morning! Cheap stuff really gives me a bad headache. I stopped buying it years ago.

As for white wines, I prefer German varieties, with Gewurstraminer and Riesling being my favorites because they seem the best complement seafood (my favorite main dish!).

But, as everyone reading this thread knows, it's very difficult to find good varietal wines at a reasonable cost here. So I usually stick to spirits or beer. My favorite alcoholic beverage is actually single malt scotch; which I consume in small quantities so that I can afford a good one. But I drink Absolute vodka and Jose Cuervo Gold tequila in larger volume.

Don't want to sound like a drunk here, so let me add that I don't drink very much or very often any more. Certainly not daily; and very rarely to the point of getting "hangover level" drunk.

I do appreciate the suggestions that a few of you have made for moderately priced red wines. I've made notes, and will definitely try them as I replenish my stock. I really didn't expect so much response to this thread; but I guess I forgot where I'm living. :-)

CHEERS! to all of you. Whatever your tastes in wine or other alcoholic beverages, I hope you enjoy them as much as I do. In my old age, I find that I truly get more pleasure out of drinking, now that I rarely drink enough to get drunk. :-)

[xylophone]

Page upon page about this on the Montclair thread on TV plus what is added to fruit wines, wines from OZ including the good and the bad, good cheapish wines from grapes available here, wines from just about every country etc etc. The Riverina was mentioned and it produces bulk wine from mainly irrigated vines and can be a reasonable cheaper wine, but fruit juice is added to some of these then exported in casks (boxes).

Plenty of good value wines from grapes available here and one poster mentioned "Barwang, The Wall" which for me is one of the better cheaper Oz wines and many now from Chile. Laughing Bird red wine has fruit juice added as do many others in the same vein as MontClair and many cask wines from Oz and now France clearly state that fruit juice is added and good on them for doing this because you know what you are drinking. Whereas others like MontClair hide this fact on the back label....not a practice I agree with.

My everyday drinking wines here are mainly from Oz and include Barwang, Wolf Blass Eaglehawk, Brands Laira, Peter Lehmann and some from Chile (Carmenere in particular) plus those I get cut price from a distributor.

However it all comes down to what you like........I don't like Scotch but many do, I can't stand Guinness but many like it, I like red wine made from grapes with no fruit juice added but many folk like this.

If you like it drink it, simple as that.

[Mudcrab]

Many repliers are implying that Mount Clair red wine is just a mixture of fruit juice, sugar? and .... don't know what else.

I know on the 5l box it says 'blended and bottled by ...'.

I want proof of what people claim the blended thingies are.... It does taste like wine to me, not some fruit juice.

Look, it even says on the box lable '... save every precious drop of your premium wine'.

See, no spelling errors, and 'premium wine'.

So..... where's the proof that it's full of chemicals and sugar and fruit juice?

Read the label. Somewhere it'll be marked as fruit wine or a fruit product of some kind.

So "real" wine isn't made from fruit?

Learn something everyday...I thought they used grapes to make some wines.

[xylophone]

Many repliers are implying that Mount Clair red wine is just a mixture of fruit juice, sugar? and .... don't know what else.

I know on the 5l box it says 'blended and bottled by ...'.

I want proof of what people claim the blended thingies are.... It does taste like wine to me, not some fruit juice.

Look, it even says on the box lable '... save every precious drop of your premium wine'.

See, no spelling errors, and 'premium wine'.

So..... where's the proof that it's full of chemicals and sugar and fruit juice?

Read the label. Somewhere it'll be marked as fruit wine or a fruit product of some kind.

So "real" wine isn't made from fruit?

Learn something everyday...I thought they used grapes to make some wines.

Regulations state that Wine has to be made from grapes............if it is from (or includes) other fruit then it has to be labeled "fruit wine". Makes life simple for us wine lovers!!

[craigt3365]

Many repliers are implying that Mount Clair red wine is just a mixture of fruit juice, sugar? and .... don't know what else.

I know on the 5l box it says 'blended and bottled by ...'.

I want proof of what people claim the blended thingies are.... It does taste like wine to me, not some fruit juice.

Look, it even says on the box lable '... save every precious drop of your premium wine'.

See, no spelling errors, and 'premium wine'.

So..... where's the proof that it's full of chemicals and sugar and fruit juice?

Read the label. Somewhere it'll be marked as fruit wine or a fruit product of some kind.

So "real" wine isn't made from fruit?

Learn something everyday...I thought they used grapes to make some wines.

Fruit wine is not necessarily made from grape juice. Even if it was, it's not typically made in the same manner nor with the same ingredients. Actually, all the ingredients are not listed.

I've drank almost every type of fruit wine in Thailand.

[thinkingman]

Try the Vineyard cab and shiraz from Tesco. Priced at Bt 339 or so at both the big and small Tesco. I think it is pretty good. You will note that the kangaroo or koala on the label is covered up, I guess to please the Thai alcohol nanny.

[Skeptic7]

I have never bought a bottle under $300 USD, and I have bought thousands.

Sometimes I fly to the vineyard.....

Please, it is your body, only put in the best!!!!

So was thinking you must not really drink much wine, until reading that you claim to have bought "thousands". WOW! So now just doing a bit of simple math...

Let's just very conservatively assume that by " thousands", you only mean 2000...not 3000 or 4000 bottles, but merely 2000. Also then very conservatively assuming that EVERY one of those bottles cost only $300 and not a penny more. OK now let's see...

Hmmmm...2000 bottles x $300 = (wow wait...let me get my calculator just to be sure).

Yep = $600,000

Damn! Substantially more than half-a-million USD on wine alone!

That is one helluva impressive claim. Suppose you must have your own fleet of aircraft that fly ya to those vineyards too.

Must be nice to be you! Just sayin'...

; - )

[SoiBiker]

I have never bought a bottle under $300 USD, and I have bought thousands.

Sometimes I fly to the vineyard.....

Please, it is your body, only put in the best!!!!

So was thinking you must not really drink much wine, until reading that you claim to have bought "thousands". WOW! So now just doing a bit of simple math...

Let's just very conservatively assume that by " thousands", you only mean 2000...not 3000 or 4000 bottles, but merely 2000. Also then very conservatively assuming that EVERY one of those bottles cost only $300 and not a penny more. OK now let's see...

Hmmmm...2000 bottles x $300 = (wow wait...let me get my calculator just to be sure).

Yep = $600,000

Damn! Substantially more than half-a-million USD on wine alone!

That is one helluva impressive claim. Suppose you must have your own fleet of aircraft that fly ya to those vineyards too.

Must be nice to be you! Just sayin'...

; - )

Dude, you're taking a troll seriously.

[Skeptic7]

I have never bought a bottle under $300 USD, and I have bought thousands.

Sometimes I fly to the vineyard.....

Please, it is your body, only put in the best!!!!

So was thinking you must not really drink much wine, until reading that you claim to have bought "thousands". WOW! So now just doing a bit of simple math...

Let's just very conservatively assume that by " thousands", you only mean 2000...not 3000 or 4000 bottles, but merely 2000. Also then very conservatively assuming that EVERY one of those bottles cost only $300 and not a penny more. OK now let's see...

Hmmmm...2000 bottles x $300 = (wow wait...let me get my calculator just to be sure).

Yep = $600,000

Damn! Substantially more than half-a-million USD on wine alone!

That is one helluva impressive claim. Suppose you must have your own fleet of aircraft that fly ya to those vineyards too.

Must be nice to be you! Just sayin'...

; - )

Dude, you're taking a troll seriously.

555 OK good to know!