Eight month old baby killed after collision with teenager on bike

[halloween]

200 years ago the outrage would have been about falling off a buffalo.

[dcnx]

Both parties are wrong. Tragic story, but it happens more than we know. All of those thousands of deaths per year on the road, making Thailand #2 in the world for road casualties, yet only a handful make the news.

If you want to see reality, follow a few Thai first responders on Facebook. They post carnage daily of people of all ages, children too, ripped to shreds, brains popped out of their heads, limbs cut off, puddles of blood everywhere, every single day of the week. It's endless gore. The media doesn't dare report on all the carnage, it's simply too much to deal with.

[dcnx]

200 years ago the outrage would have been about falling off a buffalo.

Probably less than 50.

[autanic]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

There is a difference between wanting to change things to be like back home, such as knifes in restaurants and the availability of salt when eating a meal. (These are just petty self important desires). However I think when you see a little one falling off the back of a moped/scooter and wanting a better solution than that, I think in my own opinion it is less about differences in my home country and more about the safety and well being of the child.

Yes some Thais just believe that when its your time to die, its your time to die and so they live life to the max. Thats fine when its your own life, but to impose that on your childs life is selfish.

Yeah I said it. I think its selfish !

[Caveat Emptor]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

I understand what you say and agree with a lot as it's their country etc but what worries me as a foreigner who drives is involvement in something which isn't my fault yet am held responsible for because I'm a foreigner irrespective of the lack of care and concern of others.

I sincerely hope that someone doesn't suggest I leave or stop driving but won't be surprised if they do.

[neverdie]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

There is a difference between wanting to change things to be like back home, such as knifes in restaurants and the availability of salt when eating a meal. (These are just petty self important desires). However I think when you see a little one falling off the back of a moped/scooter and wanting a better solution than that, I think in my own opinion it is less about differences in my home country and more about the safety and well being of the child.

Yes some Thais just believe that when its your time to die, its your time to die and so they live life to the max. Thats fine when its your own life, but to impose that on your childs life is selfish.

Yeah I said it. I think its selfish !

So these selfish folk, that live out of town and are living on minimum wage and can't afford a car, there is no other transport etc.....how do you want them to transport their infant and children around? Magical flying carpet?

[poohy]

Baby shouldn't have been on the bike in the first place

My only surprise is it does not happen more often

[neverdie]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

I understand what you say and agree with a lot as it's their country etc but what worries me as a foreigner who drives is involvement in something which isn't my fault yet am held responsible for because I'm a foreigner irrespective of the lack of care and concern of others.

I sincerely hope that someone doesn't suggest I leave or stop driving but won't be surprised if they do.

Understand.

[neverdie]

Baby shouldn't have been on the bike in the first place

My only surprise is it does not happen more often

Another vote for 'magical flying carpet transport system' ?

[Rayk]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

But each of us has the responsibilty to make our children as safe as possible regardless of our financial sutuation: If you can afford a motorbike you can afford a helmet for your baby

I think you will find that trying to put a helmet on a child so young would not work, even if they made one small enough as a child's neck around the base of the skull wouldn't support extra weight, a helmet would only assist in the child's neck being broken, likely at C1,c2 type level.

I did read something about this once, I just can't remember where.

It's easy to be critical of folk who can't afford a car and remember Thai folk have been getting around like this ever since Motorcycles have been around. No point trying to apply western standards to every infraction.

How do u expect folk to get around.

"How do u expect folk to get around."

With an 8 month old child I would expect them to get around by either bus, taxi or minivan.

It's not like there is any shortage of any of these means of transportation in Thailand.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Rayk

[gandalf12]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

But each of us has the responsibilty to make our children as safe as possible regardless of our financial sutuation: If you can afford a motorbike you can afford a helmet for your baby

Are there helmets for such young children? I'm not trying to be smart, I honestly don't know/have never seen them. Just asking....

Be smart. There are not many people on these forums that can make a claim to being that

[neverdie]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

But each of us has the responsibilty to make our children as safe as possible regardless of our financial sutuation: If you can afford a motorbike you can afford a helmet for your baby

I think you will find that trying to put a helmet on a child so young would not work, even if they made one small enough as a child's neck around the base of the skull wouldn't support extra weight, a helmet would only assist in the child's neck being broken, likely at C1,c2 type level.

I did read something about this once, I just can't remember where.

It's easy to be critical of folk who can't afford a car and remember Thai folk have been getting around like this ever since Motorcycles have been around. No point trying to apply western standards to every infraction.

How do u expect folk to get around.

"How do u expect folk to get around."

With an 8 month old child I would expect them to get around by either bus, taxi or minivan.

It's not like there is any shortage of any of these means of transportation in Thailand.

Buses and minivans don't go everywhere, especially off the main routes.

And what if they can't afford the taxi fares because there's probably quiet a few folk around that can't aboard 100 baht plus taxi fares around the place every other day.

Again, it's alright t sit back on big pays and pensions and critise folk who have a family to raise and are doing it on 8-10,000 baht per month.

Nobody here knows where this woman sits as far as income level goes.

My place is just outside Bkk and there's no mini bus, songtaow or regular bus that goes past my place, chittt loads of folk live further out of town than me, so how do they get around?

[Caveat Emptor]

Baby shouldn't have been on the bike in the first place

My only surprise is it does not happen more often

I'm sure there's so many more accidents and incidents we never hear, see or read about. Dash cam on the scene here.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Caveat Emptor

[khunerik]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

But each of us has the responsibilty to make our children as safe as possible regardless of our financial sutuation: If you can afford a motorbike you can afford a helmet for your baby

Are there helmets for such young children? I'm not trying to be smart, I honestly don't know/have never seen them. Just asking....

8 months old babies are not supposed to travel on motor-bikes at all. That's why there are no helmets. We don't see any helmets for riding or hockey, bicycles either for newly born babies

[sawadee1947]

R.I.P. little one.

Makes me also sick that the police officer let everyone drive by without a helmet , but hey he is only there to guide the traffic right ?

At least i see them here in Chiang Mai sometimes fining the motorbike drivers without helmets even when they are busy guiding the traffic in rush hour.

Yes, sometimes. And are the young mothers young enough to make new babies? Is this the reason for careless driving with their babies on their arms?

[djayz]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

But each of us has the responsibilty to make our children as safe as possible regardless of our financial sutuation: If you can afford a motorbike you can afford a helmet for your baby

I think you will find that trying to put a helmet on a child so young would not work, even if they made one small enough as a child's neck around the base of the skull wouldn't support extra weight, a helmet would only assist in the child's neck being broken, likely at C1,c2 type level.

I did read something about this once, I just can't remember where.

It's easy to be critical of folk who can't afford a car and remember Thai folk have been getting around like this ever since Motorcycles have been around. No point trying to apply western standards to every infraction.

How do u expect folk to get around.

My sentiments exactly. You formulated it much better than I did.

[Siameaze]

Lets not be mad at the drunk teen who could have caused the deaths of all of them, helmets or not, depending on how the crash finished off and who was coming up from behind.

It is a fact of life that probably more than 80% of infants in Thailand get carted around on motorcycles. I managed to keep it from happening with my kids, but we have cars. Very few people up here have a car and they need to get around too.

Let's face it, the attitude towards road safety here is a fail from the word go. There is a reason Thailand has more fatalities per capita then every country in Asia and Africa except Libya.

Why NOT be mad at the (allegedly drunk) teen driver? He caused the accident and bears responsibility.

[remobb]

I wish I had a camera the other day. I saw a father holding a small baby in one hand while driving his motorbike, bad enough. However he also had his wife (i presume) on the back also holding a small baby. Niether had an helmet. Only one hand controlling the bike. So bad!

[hobobo]

Not sure whether this sad death could have been prevented by infant wearing a helmet, but thousands similar deaths each year could. But with a 400 Baht fine for not wearing a helmet, and as little as 200 Baht in some provinces, people just ignore it. Make the fine 10,000 Baht, yes, I mean 10,000 Baht, and I can guarantee that most who had to pay such a fine will ALWAYS wear a helmet.

[neverdie]

Not sure whether this sad death could have been prevented by infant wearing a helmet, but thousands similar deaths each year could. But with a 400 Baht fine for not wearing a helmet, and as little as 200 Baht in some provinces, people just ignore it. Make the fine 10,000 Baht, yes, I mean 10,000 Baht, and I can guarantee that most who had to pay such a fine will ALWAYS wear a helmet.

Why stop at 10,000 baht, why not make it 10 million. Wether it's 10,000 or 10,000,000, they won't be able to pay it.

Be like making a low level speeding ticket back in the west $5000, nobody can afford to pay that either.

[tuanku]

Sad story. Such a young age to die at.

Blaming poor people for having no other means of transportation really isn't the answer.

Neither is trying to deflect the blame for culpable negligence to the imagined poverty of the parents.

[sahibji]

So the mother has no culpability in the death of her child? I think she does. An eight month old baby on a motorcycle on a public road is ridiculous.

Pimay1

it is not about culpability.such multi rider ship is common

place in poor rural communities.it is not done by choice but

for economic reasons.

it has also to do with security issues. the child was possibly

not suitably secured in the mother's arms.

it has to do with irresponsible road users who fail to exercise

basic safety and traffic rules.

finally it is the destiny.

[sahibji]

it is a case of irresponsible road users not taking suitable safety precautions

multiple rider ship is common in poorer rural areas.in this instance a freak accident

terminated a young life.

very tragic indeed.

[chaiyapoon]

Whilst this shocking,it is going to continue. Life here seems cheap and risks are largely ingnored.5 up on a motorcycle is fairly common ranging from grandma to tiny kids. If anything goes wrong serious injury or death may result and they know it.Budha will protect us.

A family friend, a nearly 60 year old lady was knocked off her motorcycle last year.No helmet and no working front brake(disc is rusty)landed up in a real mess in hospital in a very bad way for several weeks. Now recovered and still seen riding the same motorcycle with no helmet and rusty front brake. We have spoken to her and I even offered to have the brake fixed. She was all Mai bpen rai about it.Nothing to be done about it . Just have to accept it. They won't be told. Same goes for no lights or 8 up on a sidecar They are prepared to accept the risks. But when the accident happens it's never their fault.

Edited July 21, 2016 by chaiyapoon

[thai3]

Mother should be charged with child abuse

[Jonmarleesco]

Needless to say, the fact that the baby - helmetless, of course - should never have been on the motorcycle in the first place won't enter into the equation. Nor will any escalation in common sense, as Thais will continue to ride three, four, or even five up, often without helmets - or helmets that are in their twilight years - and with kids in front, stood up on the seats, and often still in nappies.

[Jonmarleesco]

So the mother has no culpability in the death of her child? I think she does. An eight month old baby on a motorcycle on a public road is ridiculous.

Pimay1

it is not about culpability.such multi rider ship is common

place in poor rural communities.it is not done by choice but

for economic reasons.

it has also to do with security issues. the child was possibly

not suitably secured in the mother's arms.

it has to do with irresponsible road users who fail to exercise

basic safety and traffic rules.

finally it is the destiny.

Yes, it is about culpability. It's called parental responsibility, something often seen lacking in Thai parents (and before you say it, in many others, too).

It wasn't all that long ago that a car was a luxury in many western countries, and a motorcycle, if there were one, would be a moped. Mothers walked with their kids. And you may be sure that, had any been caught indulging in the stupid antics so common in LoS in the twenty-first century, they would have been prosecuted.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jonmarleesco

[Jonmarleesco]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

I'm sure the child, had he/she survived, would have appreciated your point of view.

[Jonmarleesco]

This was an 8 month old child that died, barely able to walk. As neverdie has pointed out helmets are not suitable for such an infant. It was the irresponsibility of the mother who appeared to be the driver and the daughter behind her holding the child.

If they know who the man on the other bike was then maybe some charges can be laid.

Too many people here treat tiny children on motorbikes as packages. We've all seen them holding a baby in one arm and steering with the other. Only a matter of time before an accident.

It is amusing on this forum, the folk that live in Thailand, attracted to the place because it was so different to their ho e countries, then they get here and rant and rave about all the things they want to change.

One of the reasons Thailand is the way it is (cost factor) is because there's different ideals here, different standards, different beliefs, different culture and different economics, just to mention a few.

Sure it's sad a child died but what are people expecting here?

There is a difference between wanting to change things to be like back home, such as knifes in restaurants and the availability of salt when eating a meal. (These are just petty self important desires). However I think when you see a little one falling off the back of a moped/scooter and wanting a better solution than that, I think in my own opinion it is less about differences in my home country and more about the safety and well being of the child.

Yes some Thais just believe that when its your time to die, its your time to die and so they live life to the max. Thats fine when its your own life, but to impose that on your childs life is selfish.

Yeah I said it. I think its selfish !

So these selfish folk, that live out of town and are living on minimum wage and can't afford a car, there is no other transport etc.....how do you want them to transport their infant and children around? Magical flying carpet?

How about shanks's pony? If you are one of the uninitiated, they are better known as legs.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jonmarleesco

[leeedwards]

Such a sad tragic loss of an innocent's life that should never have happened. No one should be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so if a child is too young to wear one then they simply shouldn't be on the bike. I believe the mother is just as if not more responsible for this child's death as the other motorcyclist, and should be punished accordingly. There's nothing that makes my blood boil more than seeing kids without helmets, especially when they seem to be wedged between two adults that are. These people should have a fine and their motorcycles confiscated.