Are retirees moving to the new DTV visa - anybody done it?

[Na Fan]

Wadi na krap!

I've lived in Thailand for four years, and am somewhat familiar with how things work (or don't work) around here. I used to live in Bangsaen, which is roughly in the middle between Bangkok and Pattaya. Fairly quiet town, except on weekends when the Bangkok folks are coming to spend their days off on the beach. There's not many tourists around here, even in high season. In 2012 I moved there from Europe, with all my stuff in a shipping container via Amsterdam, and paid roughly 130'000THB for the whole move. I used a European shipping company which handled it all very professionally.

Now, I got kind of fed up of Bangsaen, particularly with the recent govt changes that forced even more places to close early, and I decided to move to Pattaya, since I am a night-owl and I often work until late at night. And I like to have a drink every now and then after I shut down my computer, to clear my head.

So I went looking at houses in Pattaya. Rented a motorbike, and just drove around randomly looking for places. Eventually found one that I liked and called the number given on the house. It was a real estate agency. They came over and offered to look at the interior, and were friendly and helpful. The listed price of the house was 22'000THB/month, for a 2-bedroom single story house. We got them to agree to 19'000. Still too steep, but the house was nice and modern (western kitchen, all power outlets properly grounded, etc). So we agreed. That was at the end of June, and we scheduled for me to move in on July 16th.

There was quite a bit of back and forth regarding the contract. They used a sample they found on the internet, it even still had the lawyer's name all over it who originally wrote it. Because of that there were a couple oddities, but eventually we were able to take them out and put it into a proper shape that I was able to sign in comfort.

Early July, the contract was signed, and the deposit (2 months the rental price) was paid. Target moving date: July 16th.

I phoned up all the services I've had (TrueMove, AIS, DTAC, etc) and gotten the address changed to the new place. Packed everything up and started looking for a company to do the move. I've contacted half a dozen of them, all based in Bangkok, and requested offers. I've been quoted anything between 27'000 and 40'000 THB. Remember how I paid 130'000 to move half-way around the world - and now they're in all seriousness quoting me a third of that, to move 55km. Riiiiight. After a bit of back and forth, I got an offer for 19'000 from one company. It still seemed like a lot. I talked to some locals and eventually was recommended someone that would do it for 3000THB for the truck rental for 1 day, and would charge 500THB per day for the staff to load and unload. All in all, 5k. If the truck they brought was too small, they would change it to a larger one (and a slightly larger fee, depending on the size). Fair enough, so we made the appointment for the 16th.

A weekend before moving day I stayed at the house for a night to test out the waters, so to speak. All was fine and I felt like this could be it. There was a bit of an odd situation where the owner of the house came to the place and showed the house to a potential buyer. I wondered what would happen to my rental agreement if the owner would change. I didn't think much of it at the time, since I had a signed contract in hand.

Living off of Khao Pad Krapao and plastic spoons, Friday the 15th came along. At 5PM that day I got a call from the real estate guy. There was a problem. The owner of the house sold the house to her brother, who no longer wanted someone to stay there. The fact that we had a 2-year rental contract in place, which the owner had signed as a witness, was apparently totally irrelevant. I spoke to a Thai friend of mine and debated what to do next. Of course we could try to fight it, and take it to the cops (breach of contract, blah, blah). Would that be worth it? Probably not. It may result in no change whatsoever, it may result in lots of costs, and no matter the outcome it is guaranteed to result in a pissed off owner and me not moving in tomorrow either way. Alright, let's forget about it. The real estate guy offered to show me around some other houses, as an alternative, so I rushed back there and had a look. Some were listed as 25k and he would also let me stay there for the agreed 19k of the previous "deal". But well, in a nutshell, they were all terrible. No deal.

The guy was clearly distraught as well, and apologized a lot. He transferred the deposit right back to me on the spot, and on top of that gave me 7500THB for my inconveniences. I probably could have asked for more and gotten it, but it was alright, I guess. The real estate guy did already invest in the house as well (I asked for a few things to be changed, repaired, and all furniture to be removed since I already have a full set of furniture). IMHO this eliminates the possibility that they tried to scam me; I believe it was just the owner acting like a jerk.

Anyway, here I was, with my existing contract cancelled, my address changed in lots of places already, a week approved off work (which was a pain in the rear to get), and no bloody house to move to. My ex-girlfriend got note of this and told me that she knew of a house that I might like. We've met and drove there to look at the house. It was perfect.

We phoned up the owner (no real estate guys involved this time), and they sent someone over right away to let us look at the interior. Awesome place. Totally awesome. We explained them the situation that I was in, and that I needed to move in this week, no matter what. We were able to make an appointment to meet them on Monday to sign the contract, had them fix a couple power outlets (get them properly grounded) and a few other small things. They were very helpful and friendly folks. They also got all the furniture removed from the house on the same day. Wow.

Back in Bangsaen, I already had asked some local friends for help to clean the house on moving day, I figured they could come anyway, and just get some of the bulk of the work done. My friend (let's call him Lung) showed up, along with his elder sister and a friend. Lung and the two ladies went all over the house, opening every door, looking into every closet and joking about everything they could find, straight to my face. They knew I understood, and I felt that was totally inappropriate. This guy has been to my house many times, and I've known him for years. It was just odd.

Next, his brother showed up, a well-known local drunk, with 3 girls and 2 kids in toe. All I asked for was two girls to do some cleaning (windows, floors, bathrooms, etc). Now I've had 6 or 7 people scattered all over the place, the brother getting drunk in the garden off of any bottle of 285 he could find, and girls trying to pack things and move stuff around. And me being stuck in the office working unable to watch over them.

And you know, it was meant to be a simple deal: two women for a half day of cleaning, 400THB per person. More than a good deal. The end result was:

- 1 drunk in my yard

- No more whiskey in the house

- 2 destroyed cabinets because they soaked them with the garden hose, being to lazy to clean it properly

- A nearly destroyed closet because they moved it around near a wall that was full of termites. They have literally devoured some of the sides in a matter of 24 hours.

- Lots of smaller stuff missing incl a Playstation

- Windows smeared because they used news papers and water to clean them, despite me handing them proper cleaning utensils

- Toilets still dirty

- Floors still dirty

On top of that, they had the f'n nerve to ask for more money, because they brought more people.

Welp, that's one friend gone from my life. Thanks for all the fish and goodbye - don't let the door hit your arse on the way out!

Anyway. Me and my ex spent the rest of the weekend cleaning what was left. Come Monday, we went back to Pattaya to sign the contract. My ex assisted in getting some of the translations handled that were above my Thai skills, and we were able to move in on Tuesday. I was really impressed with the professionalism displayed by these people. It really shows if Thais have lived in Europe for a while. Their attitudes change. A lot.

Come moving day, the movers came around in the morning, and checked out the situation. They brought a truck, a six-wheeler as agreed, but it was tiny. Perhaps 4.5m in length. No way on earth all my stuff would fit in there. The second thing they saw was that this is a farang moving. Hooray! The previously agreed 500B/day per person were quickly dismissed and they requested a 1000B/day per person. I requested five people to get things done quickly, and they showed up with 3 men, and 2 women. I've had lots of boxes which are somewhat smallish (containing glasses, plates, etc) and not too heavy. Two women would be fine. But not for double the agreed rate! Lots of unpleasant discussions ensued, along with phone calls back to the guy who originally arranged this crew. He clearly stated to them "take 500B or leave it". They still refused to do it for 500B. Again, not a situation you'd want to be in. Eventually, they asked for 700B/day/person, so I looked them straight in the eye and said "ok you can have 700 but you handle my stuff with great care". So they started moving the furniture to the frond of the house and loading some onto the truck.

By that time they realized what I already told them before - that the truck was too small. They said they didn't have any bigger trucks, but they could get a second one, for 2500THB, incl gas and a driver. Not great, not fair, but also not much of a choice, so I concurred and proceeded to load. About 5 hours later, both trucks were loaded and we were ready to go.

Arrived at the destination, unloading began. At this point I have to say that throughout, they have indeed handled everything with the utmost care. Nothing had even a scratch. They had done good work. They even dis-assembled and re-assembled the bed together with me. All was fine, and I discussed with my ex to give them a tip as well, perhaps a 1000B or so.

By the time they were done though, the leader of the crew wanted to get paid. And now all of a sudden, the price wasn't any longer per day, it was per truck.

Let me summarize:

- 500B/day/person totalling 2500B

went to:

- 1000B/day/person totalling 5000B

went to:

- 700B/day/person totalling 3500B

went to:

- 700B/truck/person totalling 7000B

What the F is the matter with those people. Time for lots of unpleasant discussions (do they enjoy this?) and phone calls, once again. This time they seemed to insist on their "logic" for much longer. Last change to squeeze a few more Baht out of the farang, I guess. After about an hour and half, we gave them an additional 1500B for the workers. I had planned on tipping them anyway since they did do good work and nothing was broken. Oh well, okay I guess, but the "tip" no longer came from the heart. I would've preferred to throw it in their face at this point. Oh, and we have supplied them with restaurant-cooked food and cold drinks throughout (BTW if you're ever in Bangsaen, and like Isaan food, go to Larb Ubon 5 on the intersection of Sai 2 and Thanon Khao Laam - the best!).

Right. So I was there at the new place, with all my stuff, and no-one had cancelled my contract or otherwise kicked me out! Alright, now things should get better, right?

Well, not just yet. On the second day we had some folks come around to lay the pipes for my dishwasher and washing machine. They were from a local company that was recommended by the town. It took them about 90 minutes to get it all done. They had to drill a single hole, and lay a few pipes. Easy job for three guys with the proper gear, which they had. They presented me with a bill of 2850Baht. Lots of F words. Looooots of them.

Lastly, I have to mention TrueOnline which provided super service once again. I've used them in Bangsaen and decided to use them here again for internet access. Went to the shop, and less than 24h later, I was online. Props to True!

In closing, here's what I learnt doing this:

1) Don't deal with semi-professional movers. We got lucky they at least took care of our stuff. It could just as well have been some cowboys who really didn't give a S. Pay the professionals instead. To sum it all up, I've paid 3000+2500 for two trucks, and 5000B for 5 workers. That's 10'500B and a lot of headaches. In retrospect, I'd rather have paid 19k and have no headaches.

2) Don't use real estate agents. Always deal directly with the owners of the house. Yes I know me saying this will piss people off. But they don't provide any value if you're looking to rent. It may be different if you're looking to buy (which for me is out of the question seeing how "stable" the govt here is), but if you're looking to rent you can just as easily drive around and find a good place, and make a proper contract directly with the owner. There's absolutely no need for a third party that only complicates things.

3) I should've known this already being here for a while already, but always ask upfront for a price quote before you let people do any work. Even if they seem to be from a professional services company.

4) Moving in Thailand is a pain, due to the lack of proper processes:

- You can't move your bank account, you have to close and re-open it, due to the stone-age concept of a "local" branch that you can't change for whatever senseless reason.

- You can't easily relocate a company (you'll be quoted 20k by someone to do it for you) or you'll be running all over the place yourself.

- You can't cancel contracts (internet, TV, whatever) by phone. You have to go to all the shops and do it in person.

- You can't forward your mail. If anything important goes to your old address, you will most likely loose it, unless you're fortunate enough to have stayed with an owner who cares.

5) Take your time evaluating your options. Spend that extra week or month, and if things feel wrong, they probably are. I should've stopped the whole thing the moment I saw the owner showing the house to a potential buyer.

6) Use a professional cleaning company, or do it yourself, particularly if you have nice / expensive furniture.

7) Don't move during Buddhist holidays, because a) traffic is hell and if you need to let off steam, you can't have a drink anywhere

Cheers

Na Fan

Edited July 22, 2016 by Na Fan

[dcnx]

Sounds about right. At least you're finally settled and it's over.

Though, I'll add that using a "professional" company is often just as dodgy as using Porn and Somchai from down the street. It's all a toss of the coin here.

Just be thankful you haven't tried to build or remodel a house yet. It's all of that PLUS tons more Thai crap added to the recipie. It literally almost turned me into a drunk. Worst experience of my life. How anything gets built in this country is beyond me.

[YankeeDK]

I actually read all of it. You're a good writer. So it's been a few days now, how is the new house? Worth all the problems?

[meatboy]

4yrs.in thailand and it took you all this time to learn the culture, "JACKANORY" "JACKANORY" " JACKANORY. "

cant wait for your next adventure.

good luck.

Edited July 22, 2016 by meatboy

[Na Fan]

I actually read all of it. You're a good writer. So it's been a few days now, how is the new house? Worth all the problems?

Thanks! Yeah it was definitely worth it. Old place was hell compared to this

[whatproblem]

This is Thailand ,you should of allowed a week to move because Thais aren't very punctual and you would of had time to look new movers ,I learnt that from a friends experience much like yours. I read it all aswell

Edited July 22, 2016 by whatproblem

[fatyank]

Thanks for sharing your story, I enjoyed it.

always good to have reminders on why its best to keep your life as simple as possible here.

[MissAndry]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

[mesterm]

Far from a "little" anecdote, but the story of the mover friend was funny.

[oxo1947]

On the second day we had some folks come around to lay the pipes for my dishwasher and washing machine. They were from a local company that was recommended by the town. It took them about 90 minutes to get it all done. They had to drill a single hole, and lay a few pipes. Easy job for three guys with the proper gear, which they had. They presented me with a bill of 2850Baht.----OP

Do you ever ask a price before work starts..............

[Suradit69]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

I have Thai friends who've never asked for any cash.

Possibly you have nothing to offer but cash.

[bark]

War and Peace, was a faster read.

[Na Fan]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

I have Thai friends who've never asked for any cash.

Possibly you have nothing to offer but cash.

Yes, me too. I've had the pleasure of meeting some truly wonderful people here who have given me more than I could ever give them.

[SoiBiker]

Yep. I've had Thai friends help me out and refuse to take a single baht in return.

[maximillian]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

I have Thai friends who've never asked for any cash.

Possibly you have nothing to offer but cash.

[lostmebike]

@ Na Fan ...

Went through a big move about 4 years ago ourselves, from the north to central Thailand. The removal firm was from Korat. One price of 20k, all in, was quoted for a 7 and half ton truck so we hired them as that was the lowest quote. I packed up and used my pickup too.

Although the removal firm was generally okay, came on time, took care packing our stuff and loading it onto the truck, they then went AWOL for 2 days! NOT FUNNY!

Although I did believe they genuinely had vehicle problems, and indeed we regularly called the garage where their truck was being fixed as well as the removal firm to get updates on the situation, there was one large thing in that truck I was beginning to worry about, a 6 month old 800k Kawasaki.

The wife was in tears saying 'We've been robbed' and 'We'll never see our stuff again' but I knew that they'd come good as they we're a 'reputable' firm off the net.

Anyway, like I said, a couple of days after waiting in our new, empty house, we got a call with an ETA and they arrived a few hours later. The wife wasn't the only relieved person either.

@ Suradit .. nice, snidey, sarcastic comment, again!

[Na Fan]

@ Na Fan ...

Went through a big move about 4 years ago ourselves, from the north to central Thailand. The removal firm was from Korat. One price of 20k, all in, was quoted for a 7 and half ton truck so we hired them as that was the lowest quote. I packed up and used my pickup too.

Although the removal firm was generally okay, came on time, took care packing our stuff and loading it onto the truck, they then went AWOL for 2 days! NOT FUNNY!

Holy molly! That's got to be a true nightmare. They wouldn't disclose their location to you if they had car trouble?

[lemonjelly]

Nice post jongen, good to see that you're taking everything in your stride.

[jaiyenyen]

Thanks for your story. It was a good read which helped take my mind off my own (Thai) problems that I'm having at the moment. I'm pleased to hear you're happy in your new home.

[bazza40]

There's something to be said for a minimalist approach to housing. I could probably pack up all my property ( here and in Australia ) into two large suitcases. Appliances such as laptops and Kindles have been a godsend.

I am very fortunate in having a landlord ( Brit ) who maintains my apartment very well through an agent for 8 years now. No contract, just a gentleman's agreement. I'd be quite concerned if I had to move, with some of the horror stories that appear on TV.

[KhunOr]

I enjoyed reading your story. Had to stop and go make a cup of tea half way through...

I'd just like to point out that most if not all of the trials and tribulations you had, including the ever changing quotations, happen just as often with Thai to Thai people as with Thais to foreigners.

For just about any project always give yourself more time than you might expect, always shop around for quotes, if possible always get references and above all, always get a written quotation in advance. And having done all of those things, be prepared and expect the unexpected. It's that easy.

[NancyL]

We've had cross-country moves in the U.S. that were more traumatic than this, using "professional" big-name moving companies and where everyone allegedly spoke the same language. One industry practice that's especially maddening with a U.S. move is that the big companies use big trucks and will load several households into one truck and then take their sweet time in delivering your household items to you across the country if you're a smaller move, like from an apartment. Your stuff can even be reloaded into a different truck.

And at least you weren't trying to move pets and plants in extreme weather. We did one move where Hubby and I rented a couple Uhaul cargo vans to drive over 2300 kilometers (about 1500 miles) because we wanted to keep our extensive house plant collection alive during a mid-winter move.

[gandalf12]

You could have rented my place had I known. Sold it now but only because it no one wanted to rent it as it was off HW 36 down the road by the 7-11. Some people consider it too far if it is more than a minutes walk to a bar. That was detached 3 bedrooms 2 1/2 bathrooms. European designed kitchen. Total area 124 sq wa and I was only asking Bht 15,000

Located at the end of a cul-de-sac very quiet it was

[Junkyarddog]

Wow what problems. When I moved I was so lucky. We moved an entire restaurant complete with a million baht stainless kitchen which included very large refridgerators and very big frezzers. All this being on the second floor. Pots pans dishes tables and chairs etc. Basically like moving contents of four or five houses.

I don't remember where we came by the trucks. Seems like it was a freight company that decided to pick up some money on the side. Anyway they showed up on time. About ten guys and two very large trucks which ended up being full. They went right to work. Forgot to mention we had a big office as well. Two big desk filing cabinets shelves. Lots and lots of stuff. Two and half hours everything nearly loaded on the trucks. I could not believe it. Off they go. My wife goes with them. I stay behind to tie up a few loose ends. They have a three hour trip ahead of them. By the time I arrived at the new location where we are again setting up a restaurant everything was off the trucks and moved inside at the proper location.All that was left for me to do was reassemble the dining tables. That's it all done. They accepted the agreed price with appreciation and again were already gone by the time I arrived.

[joebrown]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

I have Thai friends who've never asked for any cash.

Possibly you have nothing to offer but cash.

Your Thai friends never asked for cash for what, moving your ivory tower??

[JingerBen]

You don't have any Thai friends.

You may have some Thais waiting for their opportunity to make some cash out of you.

I've only been here two months, and I know that, guess you're a slow learner.

Glad it worked out OK in the end for you. Enjoy your new home.

I have Thai friends who've never asked for any cash.

Possibly you have nothing to offer but cash.

Your Thai friends never asked for cash for what, moving your ivory tower??

I doubt if he lives in an ivory tower... he probably just lives among Thais .

It's the farangs who ​do live in ivory towers that get stiffed.

[pgrahmm]

Lost me somewhere between Exodus & Leviticus......

[Gillyflower]

I don't know how old you are, but I bet your hair is white by now.

[dcnx]

I don't know how old you are, but I bet your hair is white by now.

We moved from Pattaya to Chiang Mai. A large house and office, along with several motorbikes. The movers showed up with an open roof truck instead of a closed roof as I requested, but the put a tarp over the top and tied it down. To our surprise, they did a great job, everything made it without a scratch, in time, and hassle free. We paid 20k or 22k, I don't recall. Kudos to them, they did a great job. One of the few times here that things worked out well for us when dealing with locals.

[mcfish]

The joys of renting