Marriage visa crackdown: Immigration officers who demand ‘extra fees’ to face criminal charges

[elgordo38]

Hmmm... I feel like I am a victim of corruption in one form or another almost daily here. Who do I call?

Corruptionbusters.

[Falcon]

I can never really understand this talk about sham marriages in Thailand. It's not as though being married to a Thai gives any special benefits such as permanent leave to enter (as in uk when married to an English person), citizenship (as with many other countries married to nationals of the individual countries), etc. all we get is a yearly visa that we need to renew every year showing the exact same documents year in and year out and get nothing other than that out of it from the Thai government. For those of us married for all the right reasons, it should be made a damn site easier to get a more permanent visa to stay in the country and be with our wives/husbands and children.

[rexall]

And there was me thinking for a moment it was to be a welcome crackdown on officials abusing their positions and making life needlessly difficult for honest foreigners by making up rules as they go along and/or demanding extra money for absolutely no reason whatsoever, but no. How stupid am I (rhetorical)?

Visits for marriage are normal but annoying, when i was married i had them visit 3 times. Problem is if you keep to yourself and not have too much contact with your neighbors its hard to get people to vouch for you. Also if your wife works and they come unannounced it will cause problem.

I am not sure how stupid you are though , the title is misleading.. just a little bit about officers facing charges and a lot about sham marriages.

The stupid thing is that I had pictures of my (ex) wife and my parents and me enjoying a holiday and stuff like that. They were not interested only wanted a picture in the bedroom,, picture of clothes in a cupboard (mixed) a picture of us on the sofa and in front of the house. These pictures show nothing.. but real pictures of showing a couple doing stuff are not accepted.

Its the rules we live by, must say the elite visa I am on now was a lot easier (more expensive too but less of a hassle. Can't wait till im an old fart and qualify for retirement.

First they will come for the married guys. Next . . . the old farts. Excuse me while I sit on my porch and dribble into my drool cup!

[elgordo38]

2 for 1

or 1-2

some one will aways take the money !

until cash payments are removed and are paid

directly to the government bank account,

corruption will remain.

I agree. I sure would like to follow the money paid to one of these "visa" agents and see where it ends up. Now there is a can of worms that needs opening.

[rexall]

I can never really understand this talk about sham marriages in Thailand. It's not as though being married to a Thai gives any special benefits such as permanent leave to enter (as in uk when married to an English person), citizenship (as with many other countries married to nationals of the individual countries), etc. all we get is a yearly visa that we need to renew every year showing the exact same documents year in and year out and get nothing other than that out of it from the Thai government. For those of us married for all the right reasons, it should be made a damn site easier to get a more permanent visa to stay in the country and be with our wives/husbands and children.

Sure, if you expatriate some cash to support a Thai family, they tolerate you. However, the intention and the policy of making it difficult or impossible for falang to meaningfully participate in the economy, own property or feel secure and vested in Thailand has always been crystal clear. Yes, historically, there may have been some clever workarounds or ways to bribe your way past certain obstacles. But to feel fully at home, fully like a participant, they don't want that to happen and it probably never will.

[hawker9000]

And there was me thinking for a moment it was to be a welcome crackdown on officials abusing their positions and making life needlessly difficult for honest foreigners by making up rules as they go along and/or demanding extra money for absolutely no reason whatsoever, but no. How stupid am I (rhetorical)?

Visits for marriage are normal but annoying, when i was married i had them visit 3 times. Problem is if you keep to yourself and not have too much contact with your neighbors its hard to get people to vouch for you. Also if your wife works and they come unannounced it will cause problem.

I am not sure how stupid you are though , the title is misleading.. just a little bit about officers facing charges and a lot about sham marriages.

The stupid thing is that I had pictures of my (ex) wife and my parents and me enjoying a holiday and stuff like that. They were not interested only wanted a picture in the bedroom,, picture of clothes in a cupboard (mixed) a picture of us on the sofa and in front of the house. These pictures show nothing.. but real pictures of showing a couple doing stuff are not accepted.

Its the rules we live by, must say the elite visa I am on now was a lot easier (more expensive too but less of a hassle. Can't wait till im an old fart and qualify for retirement.

First they will come for the married guys. Next . . . the old farts. Excuse me while I sit on my porch and dribble into my drool cup!

You missed a few steps. First they came for the visa-exempt out-n-ins (to the smug, roaring approval of all the various long-stay visa holders). Then they came for the ED-visa holders ( to the smug, roaring approval of slightly fewer long-term visa holders). Then..., and then..., and then... And now it's the marriage visa holders.

'Beginning to get the picture, boys & girls? See any pattern emerging here?

Become Chinese, and maybe you won't have to worry about it.

[Deepinthailand]

I have never had an "officer" come round my house to check my "status". Everyone in my village (including the headman) knows me. They see me every day, out and about. Actually, I'm the ONLY foreigner who lives here full time, unless of course there are a few I have not met, who just hide inside drinking their Chang, or whatever, (that their wives or g.f.'s buy for them) and watching t.v. When, on the rare occasion, you see them, you can always identify them by their pale white skin. They look like they live in a cave.

Or maybe they have a bit of sense and stay out of the sun during the hot hours. I venture out at 5am for a wander then in garden or doing something to house maintenance wise till 9am then I hide inside till its time for work at 11am get home around 5pm and then it's family time. So not everyone sits and drinks all day

[geriatrickid]

Last year a friend of mine managed to get a UK visit visa for his girlfriend after forking over 35k Baht to an "agent".

She would almost certainly not have been able to get a visa without the "fee".

There were no British staff in evidence at the Embassy on my last visit there.

That makes you complicit in the act you now condemn, Did you report your friends?

Or how about this, the visa was actually reviewed and approved based upon its merits?

[HooHaa]

Should the OP be removed? It seems to break Thai Visa posting rules:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

Given that the forum already has abundant moderation, I would suggest either you apply for the job through appropriate channels or keep your own counsel.

[snoop1130]

Officials target sham marriages of foreign men and Thai women
By Coconuts Bangkok

Photo: Ben Stephenson/Flickr

For several months, the government has been trying to catch and prosecute foreigners and Thai women engaged in sham marriages that are in place to let the men, often involved in shady or illegal businesses in Thailand or abroad, to remain in the country.

Now, officials are targeting police and immigration officers that might be allowing these marriages by accepting bribes and not calling attention to what are not legit relationships.

The crackdown on the officers is the latest step in the Immigration Bureau's project to oust international criminals from Thailand.

Full Story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/07/25/officials-target-sham-marriages-foreign-men-and-thai-women

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2016-07-25

[geriatrickid]

I can never really understand this talk about sham marriages in Thailand. It's not as though being married to a Thai gives any special benefits such as permanent leave to enter (as in uk when married to an English person), citizenship (as with many other countries married to nationals of the individual countries), etc. all we get is a yearly visa that we need to renew every year showing the exact same documents year in and year out and get nothing other than that out of it from the Thai government. For those of us married for all the right reasons, it should be made a damn site easier to get a more permanent visa to stay in the country and be with our wives/husbands and children.

Sure, if you expatriate some cash to support a Thai family, they tolerate you. However, the intention and the policy of making it difficult or impossible for falang to meaningfully participate in the economy, own property or feel secure and vested in Thailand has always been crystal clear. Yes, historically, there may have been some clever workarounds or ways to bribe your way past certain obstacles. But to feel fully at home, fully like a participant, they don't want that to happen and it probably never will.

Quit with the melodrama. Thailand doesn't need these small operators. Seriously, what benefit does another bar owner, real estate tout, shop owner, small low end guest house owner, internet player, restaurant, dive shop, etc. bring? In case you missed it, the welcome mat is there for large scale employers who invest in infrastructure and create large numbers of jobs. There is a reason why Thai investment officials do cartwheels for Ford or Toyota or Novotel or Marriott or Sizzler or Tesco.

There are many foreigners who are treated quite nicely by Thai officials. They don't post on TVF. They have their luxury homes, golf clubs etc. Thailand is like many other countries in its desire to select only high end people. Unfortunately, because Thailand doesn't have much to offer to a large investor, it has had to lower its standards in years past. It now feels it can increase its requirements. That means a lot of marginal foreigners, the folks just scraping by, will soon find themselves on the outside looking in.

[Alex2015]

Last year a friend of mine managed to get a UK visit visa for his girlfriend after forking over 35k Baht to an "agent".

She would almost certainly not have been able to get a visa without the "fee".

There were no British staff in evidence at the Embassy on my last visit there.

At the end of the day the Visa application would have been considered by UK personnel, the front line staff are all Thai.

A well known agent here in Pattaya 'charges' 30000 baht, 5000 baht upfront then the balance is paid if the application is successful, not all are they said.

[evadgib]

Officials target sham marriages of foreign men and Thai women

By Coconuts Bangkok

Photo: Ben Stephenson/Flickr

For several months, the government has been trying to catch and prosecute foreigners and Thai women engaged in sham marriages that are in place to let the men, often involved in shady or illegal businesses in Thailand or abroad, to remain in the country.

Now, officials are targeting police and immigration officers that might be allowing these marriages by accepting bribes and not calling attention to what are not legit relationships.

The crackdown on the officers is the latest step in the Immigration Bureau's project to oust international criminals from Thailand.

Full Story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/07/25/officials-target-sham-marriages-foreign-men-and-thai-women

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2016-07-25

How about foreign females married to Thais who already enjoy unfair advantage re financial exemption per annum?

[Psychic]

I can never really understand this talk about sham marriages in Thailand. It's not as though being married to a Thai gives any special benefits such as permanent leave to enter (as in uk when married to an English person), citizenship (as with many other countries married to nationals of the individual countries), etc. all we get is a yearly visa that we need to renew every year showing the exact same documents year in and year out and get nothing other than that out of it from the Thai government. For those of us married for all the right reasons, it should be made a damn site easier to get a more permanent visa to stay in the country and be with our wives/husbands and children.

Sure, if you expatriate some cash to support a Thai family, they tolerate you. However, the intention and the policy of making it difficult or impossible for falang to meaningfully participate in the economy, own property or feel secure and vested in Thailand has always been crystal clear. Yes, historically, there may have been some clever workarounds or ways to bribe your way past certain obstacles. But to feel fully at home, fully like a participant, they don't want that to happen and it probably never will.

Quit with the melodrama. Thailand doesn't need these small operators. Seriously, what benefit does another bar owner, real estate tout, shop owner, small low end guest house owner, internet player, restaurant, dive shop, etc. bring? In case you missed it, the welcome mat is there for large scale employers who invest in infrastructure and create large numbers of jobs. There is a reason why Thai investment officials do cartwheels for Ford or Toyota or Novotel or Marriott or Sizzler or Tesco.

There are many foreigners who are treated quite nicely by Thai officials. They don't post on TVF. They have their luxury homes, golf clubs etc. Thailand is like many other countries in its desire to select only high end people. Unfortunately, because Thailand doesn't have much to offer to a large investor, it has had to lower its standards in years past. It now feels it can increase its requirements. That means a lot of marginal foreigners, the folks just scraping by, will soon find themselves on the outside looking in.

Heard Tesco was trying to pull out. Carrefour already gone, Big C sold to a Thai business.

Probably there's a reason there's no Walmarts or Home Depots here..it would dilute the money flow. So you go to places like Thai (mai mi) Watsadu where their are usually more staff than customers and nobody has a clue about the products they sell.

But that has nothing to do with this.

Well maybe it does.

There is no easy path to permanent residency here for those that marry Thai nationals and wish to relocate here and make a life.

Raise children, pay for their education, support the economy....means nothing. You are always just a guest and it is increasingly feeling like an increasingly unwelcome guest.

I'm certainly not one of those high end foreigners you talk about, but I would guess over the course of my lifetime I will have poured in well over 30 million baht into the country.

But god forbid my annual income fall below 400K after doing that....off I go.

Wife dies before me after we've lived together in the same home for decades, too bad sell in a year or lose the land. And if you can't meet the retired income status...off you go.

No doubt there are scammers, but for the vast majority of married foreigners, it would be vastly easier for everyone if there was a way to be accepted as a long term member of Thai society and not be treated as an unwelcome guest.

[Celer et Audax]

Corruption in Thailand generally.

Also, if we want to get to the root of the problem, we might consider, as an example, that the entry-level salary for a police officer here is around 8k Baht a month.

Last year a friend of mine managed to get a UK visit visa for his girlfriend after forking over 35k Baht to an "agent".

She would almost certainly not have been able to get a visa without the "fee".

There were no British staff in evidence at the Embassy on my last visit there.

What does your last comment have to do with your first 2?

Then your friend possibly wasted the 35k

the visas aren't granted by the processing centre or by the Thai's that work at the embassy.

I too know people that have used agents and personally all they do is collate the paperwork and present it well - not worth the money!

I totally agree the staff at VFS have no control over who gets a visa they are only there to collect the documentation for onward submit trance to the British Embassy

The last time I went back to the UK with my(Thai) gf

All the was required was the following

A letter of invitation from a family member in the UK stating that they would be supporting her financially during her stay (accommodation and food)

A letter from me stating the same as above

A letter from her employer stating her income and the fact that she had a job to return to in Thailand ( this was in Thai so I think we paid 1000 baht for it to be translated)

A letter from my employer here stating that I had permeant employment here in Thailand and also confirmed my salary to show I had the means to support her whilst we were in the UK

We also provided the following to back up her application although it wasn't asked for

Travel insurance with BUPA Thailand

Copy of the rental agreement on our condo which is joint names

Total cost approx 5000 baht plus the 1000 baht for the translation

So next time I will do all your paper work do 20000 baht and you won't have to pay an agent 35000 unless of course your ducks aren't all in a row as they should be

IMHO if your Kosher then you have no need to pay

Any one to do this stuff for you

[tandor]

Hmmm... I feel like I am a victim of corruption in one form or another almost daily here. Who do I call?

...friend of mine..expat married to a Thai woman..was in Bangkok when the local Police visited to check they were bogus..they went to speak with the neighbours first then came to the house to see them..when they were told he was in Bkk they were annoyed and demanded 500 baht for fuel..(and yes he did inform Immig he would be out of the province)....may as well call your mum.

Edited July 25, 2016 by tandor

[Basil B]

Nothing will happen...

Unless some netizen secretly films it and posts it on social media.

[alexlm]

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

I saw that Savannakhet Consulate doesn't ask any money proof. But is it the only and last one to do that in Asia? (which would be risky).

I'm 23 years old, I'm getting the paperwork ready to make the marriage with my Thai "wife" official.

But right now I must have around 20,000 THB in my bank account and I just have enough every month to live confortably and paying health insurance and visa runs, etc...

So to repeat the question:

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

Edited July 25, 2016 by alexlm

[Time Traveller]

This is not necessary because as we are told constantly on thaivisa, the Thai immigration are the most honest friendly professional hard working and knowledgable public servants in the world. Any foriegners complaining are to blame for all their difficulties they face and those that do should be deported and blacklisted because they make the lives more difficult for the "good" foreigners.

[Rayk]

My question is how would the Bangkok Post have access to immigration's information when it comes to marriage extensions?

Also, How would they know that there were 819 irregularities in the applications?

Is someone inside immigration now supplying the Bangkok Post with information regarding foreigners?Seems strange to me the BP would be able to get this data without some inside help within immigration.

[baboon]

Nothing will happen...

Unless some netizen secretly films it and posts it on social media.

Then watch the ca-ca hit the fan as they persue the netizen and not the official...

[SoFarAndNear]

Personaly I think it great. I belive they should visit and not just once a year when people are expecting it. Do unannounced visits set up a dedicated team of two officers in each area to do random checks on married visa and extension holders. They could also do spot checks on retired extension holders to check there ok and not working or overstaying. I would have thought the vast majority on here would love this. Nothing to hide nothing to worry about as the saying goes. And no I don't see it as another form of intrusion.

Awaiting incoming.

I totally agree that at least one unexpected visit during the first extension is appropriate. But doing visits every year doesn't make any sense. Everything else is just looking for tea money.

[SoFarAndNear]

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

I saw that Savannakhet Consulate doesn't ask any money proof. But is it the only and last one to do that in Asia? (which would be risky).

I'm 23 years old, I'm getting the paperwork ready to make the marriage with my Thai "wife" official.

But right now I must have around 20,000 THB in my bank account and I just have enough every month to live confortably and paying health insurance and visa runs, etc...

So to repeat the question:

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

No! To live here as foreigner except (Myanmar, Lao or Cambodia) you need at least something around 3x times the Income of an average Thai citizen.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed as well as a reply:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

[gemguy]

Geeez...Next thing you know they will be requesting a home made video of each foreigner, in bed, with the wife, while doing the wife, as proof positive they are married ...Eee, Eee, Eee

Missionary position will suffice ...lol

Cheers

[DavisH]

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

I saw that Savannakhet Consulate doesn't ask any money proof. But is it the only and last one to do that in Asia? (which would be risky).

I'm 23 years old, I'm getting the paperwork ready to make the marriage with my Thai "wife" official.

But right now I must have around 20,000 THB in my bank account and I just have enough every month to live confortably and paying health insurance and visa runs, etc...

So to repeat the question:

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

Get a job and a work permit and then the non-immigrant B visa.

OR

Get the O-visa based on marriage and have an income of 40000 a month or put 400,000 in the Bank.

OR

do visa runs on a multi entry visa (I dont know much about that though)

I've been married and lived here 15 years and only even have been on a work visa.

[alexlm]

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

I saw that Savannakhet Consulate doesn't ask any money proof. But is it the only and last one to do that in Asia? (which would be risky).

I'm 23 years old, I'm getting the paperwork ready to make the marriage with my Thai "wife" official.

But right now I must have around 20,000 THB in my bank account and I just have enough every month to live confortably and paying health insurance and visa runs, etc...

So to repeat the question:

Is it still possible to live with our Thai wife without having large amounts of money?

Get a job and a work permit and then the non-immigrant B visa.

OR

Get the O-visa based on marriage and have an income of 40000 a month or put 400,000 in the Bank.

OR

do visa runs on a multi entry visa (I dont know much about that though)

I've been married and lived here 15 years and only even have been on a work visa.

Thank you but I'm not great at English, non-native, and except English teacher I don't really know what could be a work...

I heard that Savannakhet didn't required fund proof on application and that a border run every 5 months would do the trick.

But if there is only Savannakhet left that doesn't require the funds, it would be risky to rely on it since they could change their rules anytime...

[merijn]

In all my years on a marriage extension i never had a visit.

But if they want to do a visit for the first time extension i could understand this and have no problems with it as long it is well planned.

Don't expect to stay at home just in case if they are willing to show up.

Visits for consecutive years is unnecessary in my opinion as it would have been confirmed during the first visit.

Phuket only do some times visits (which they normally never do) during the first time marriage extension.

[BrainLife]

The real problem will of just above 10% they mention, is that while real marriage, not all paperwork is to Thai standard, because it depends on the officer NOT the regulations.

You are faking a marriage, YES, get lost, fined and bye bye

Edited July 25, 2016 by BrainLife

[ericthai]

Should the OP be removed? It seems to break Thai Visa posting rules:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

The OP is Thai Visa news

Where do you see any links to either of those two news outlets in the article? Also I dont see any quotes from either of them.

Maybe you should leave the enforcement of the rules to TV admin, or are you one of those guys that when you were in school

had to tell the teacher all the students broke rules....You should become a Tourist Police volunteer.