Network of 43 groups vow to vote against draft charter

[webfact]

Network of 43 groups vow to vote against draft charter



BANGKOK: -- A network of 43 academic, student and people groups vowed on Sunday that they will not accept the draft constitution which is due for a referendum on August 7.

In a statement issued after the meeting of the groups at Thammasat University, the network said they would “Vote No” against the draft charter for four reasons:

– the drafting process lacks legitimacy because the Constitution Drafting Committee did not represent the people and the CDC attached more importance to the National Council for Peace and Order than it did for the people;

-the content of the draft will drive the country backward in regard to democratic principle and the people’s rights and welfare such as the appointment of 250 senators and the replacement of public’s right of access to education, health care and subsidies for the elderly with a welfare system which will make the people look like they are impoverished;

-lessons from the NCPO’s administration for the past years make the people understand that they can no longer place their future on the junta; laws and policies which were issued do not reflect the wishes of the people;

– the draft constitution was designed in such a way that amendments are almost impossible.
The network also demanded the junta to stop harassing people who disagree with the draft charter and to ensure that referendum is done in an open and fair manner.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/network-43-groups-vow-vote-draft-charter/

-- Thai PBS 2016-07-25

[The stuttering parrot]

The 43 might be seeing a 44 after this.

Much respect to these brave people for daring to voice what people actually want to say.

The good news is that their voice hit the intl news so the rest of the world can see the stranglehold the people in.

Looks like those monkeys up in Phicit have kick started the revolution .

[smedly]

ah well there's 43 no votes we are aware of

Oh and a Constitution should be almost impossible to ammend, absolutly nothing wrong with that, as for the rest of their points - some are nonsense and some are down to opinion

[WhizBang]

Looks like maybe the tide is starting to change. Let's hope it turns into a tsunami on August 7 and sends a VERY STRONG AND CLEAR message to the junta.

I have said all along that this referendum is illegitimate due to the one sided way the junta has forced onto the Thai people.

The junta will NOT be happy with this development. I'll bet someone is throwing a major temper tantrum as I write.

[Thailand]

ah well there's 43 no votes we are aware of

Oh and a Constitution should be almost impossible to ammend, absolutly nothing wrong with that, as for the rest of their points - some are nonsense and some are down to opinion

It says 43 groups that are having the balls to say what they think about the ongoing farce, and down to opinion, thought that was not allowed by your ptb?

Hopefully they are the first of many to show a backbone.

[WhizBang]

Anyone out there actually read the draft charter? I am about one third the way through it and what I see is all sorts of lofty statements, but almost all have a proviso that goes along these lines...

"except by virtue of the provisions of the law specifically enacted for the purpose of maintaining the security of the State, protecting the rights or liberties of other persons, maintaining public order or good morals of people, or safeguarding the health of the people"

I read that as a sort of we can do what we want regardless of what the charter may say. Not what I would call a good sign at all.

[Plutojames88]

It matters little.

But is none the less good.

YS says on social media to her millions of followers ( more or less ) NO.

This charade is for international perception that some advancement towards democracy is progressing.

Those wheels will take one or two more years to fall off ( before its obvious)

It's not.

Cooked systems and outcomes do nothing to change status Quo

Edited July 25, 2016 by Plutojames88

[waldroj]

"...the content of the draft will drive the country backward in regard to democratic principle and the people’s rights..."

This group of dissenters may well actually have a valid point - but, I doubt few Thais will share their concerns!

Even the junta's Interim document says in Section 4:

Subject to the provisions of this Constitution, human dignity, rights, liberties and equality previously enjoyed by the

Thai people with the protection under Thailand’s administrative conventions of the democratic regime of government

with the King as Head of State and Thailand’s existing international obligations shall be protected under this Constitution.

Whilst Section 25 of the draft effort has removed any "enjoyment" Thais may have "previously" had, suggesting instead:

Where provisions of the Constitution are specifically enacted to protect the rights and liberties of the Thai people and no

act is prohibited or restricted by the Constitution or other laws, a person shall have right and liberty to commit such act and

be protected under the Constitution in so far as the exercise of such right or liberty does not affect or harm to the security

of the State, public order or good morals of people , and is not in violation of the rights and liberties of other persons.

As for these people's demand for the junta to stop harassing those who disagree with the draft charter, they need to be aware that under the Interim document currently in force, they

have no right of opinion or free speech. That will not be available to them until the draft document is approved, and then under Section 34:

A person shall enjoy the liberty to express his opinion, make speech, write, print, publicize, and make expression by other means.

However, the caveat (that Thais must accept) is that:

Restriction on such liberty shall not be permitted, except by virtue of the provisions of the law specifically enacted for the purpose

of maintaining the security of the State, protecting the rights or liberties of other persons, maintaining public order or good morals

of people, or safeguarding the health of the people.

Seems good morals are important for the CDC, as reference to them occurs 7 times in the draft when referring to the ordinary people, and once when referring to lawyers in the draft.

Surprisingly, when used with leaders and officials, it only appears once (in the Preamble)! This lack of "moral" obligation on leaders and officials seems deliberate, as the draft document

is completely lacking anything similar to Section 11 of the Interim document:

Members of the National Legislative Assembly are representatives of the Thai people who shall dedicate themselves for the honest
performance of duties for the common interests of the Thai people.

Finally, the most damning argument in support of the group's claims against the draft document is Section 279 which gives blanket amnesty to everything the junta has done to date:

All announcements, orders and acts, including the performance of the National Council for Peace and Order or of the Head of the

National Council for Peace and Order already in force prior to the date of promulgation of this Constitution or will come into force in

accordance with Section 265 Paragraph Two, irrespective of their constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial force, shall be considered

constitutional and lawful and shall continue to be in force under this Constitution. Repeal or amendment of such any announcement or

order shall be made by an Act, except in case of the announcements or orders of the exercise of executive power in nature, the repeal

or amendment shall be made by an order of the Prime Minister or a resolution of the Council of Ministers, as the case may be.

All affairs, including the acts related thereto, as recognized by the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand (Interim) B.E. 2557, amended

by the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand (Interim) B.E. 2557, Amendment (No. 1) B.E. 2558 and the Constitution of the Kingdom

of Thailand (Interim) B.E. 2557, Amendment (No. 2) B.E. 2559, to be constitutional and lawful shall be considered constitutional and lawful.

[Hawk]

All announcements, orders and acts, including the performance of the National Council for Peace and Order or of the Head of the

National Council for Peace and Order already in force prior to the date of promulgation of this Constitution or will come into force in

accordance with Section 265 Paragraph Two, irrespective of their constitutional, legislative, executive or judicial force, shall be considered

constitutional and lawful and shall continue to be in force under this Constitution.

As I said before it appears that law #44 will remain available to the general if the charter is passed, it is there forever, as is his amnesty. The censorship of the TV, radio stations, press, media, internet etc. will remain in place while all the "big brother" projects quietly take control of the population and their assets. (this government is already purchasing sophisticated computer "snooping" equipment and hardware under the guise of state security).

[Srikcir]

ah well there's 43 no votes we are aware of

Oh and a Constitution should be almost impossible to ammend, absolutly nothing wrong with that, as for the rest of their points - some are nonsense and some are down to opinion

absolutly nothing wrong with that

NCPO seems to disagree - making future amendments possible would prevent the use of force to make dramatic changes such as a coup, "which is not acceptable to countries with high standards of democracy". http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/873733-thai-talk-how-do-charter-writers-predict-unforeseeable-scenarios/

[Srikcir]

Network of 43's public opposition is a continuation of an earlier cresendo of group opposition to Meechai's draft charter.

The Nitirat Group which counts more than 450 members from about a dozen universities nationwide. In April 2016 this highly educated group declared its opposition to the charter in a statement decrying it as undemocratic.

Nor put aside Democrat leader Abhisit's comments also in April 2016 that most of its party members felt that there are more demerits in the draft charter than its merits. While the party did not oppose the draft in its entirety, it would not accept it either.

[rubl]

At least the 43 groups understand the importance of voting in this referendum.

[waldroj]

As noted by Srikcir (#12), back in April the Dems had issues with the draft Constitution (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Abhisit-slams-charter-as-a-step-backward-30283714.html), referring to it as "a democracy in retreat". It would also appear that they will vote to reject the additional referendum question proposed by the NLA!

[Eric Loh]

The referendum looks doomed to fail. The 2 major parties have criticized the draft and many non aligned academics, activists, student bodies have came out strongly against the referendum. Big influence on voters.If the North turns out in numbers, it's over. Only the staunch establishment supporters in Bangkok left and will not be enough to carry the vote to their side. The play now with the junta whether they will decide to confront or negotiate the future of Thailand. If they allow the referendum to proceed, I think the latter.

[rubl]

Of course, back in 2014 the NCPO asked for people to participate in and to provide input for the reform process including the charter. Abysmal lack of co-operation, non-obstruction by non-co-operation, etc., etc.

Seems some have problems remembering even the recent past.

[Srikcir]

Of course, back in 2014 the NCPO asked for people to participate in and to provide input for the reform process including the charter. Abysmal lack of co-operation, non-obstruction by non-co-operation, etc., etc.

Seems some have problems remembering even the recent past.

Going back to the recent past, recall that it was the junta-appointed NRC that voted against the 2015 draft charter 135 votes to 105. Of those who voted "no", about 60 were province-based reformers, 40 were from the political, justice academic and law-making spheres, and 30 were police and military officers.

The excuse was that the public might reject the charter because they did not understand it, because the NRC wanted to buy more time for the economy to recover, junta government will lose face in the referendum vote, etc., etc. Blaming a nonparticipating electorate seems an endless excuse.

[waldroj]

There have been some good points raised in this debate, but irrespective of the outcome of the Referendum, unfortunately the critical problem of reconciliation in Thailand will remain unresolved.

One key group will continue to lament how their "democratically elected government" was usurped. While many in the other key group must be seriously questioning how their noble cause has been so dramatically hijacked over the last few years.

Alas, there will be few winners while divide-and-conquer leadership prevails. So, it's hardly likely we'll see any genuine unification happening soon!

[sjaak327]

There have been some good points raised in this debate, but irrespective of the outcome of the Referendum, unfortunately the critical problem of reconciliation in Thailand will remain unresolved.

One key group will continue to lament how their "democratically elected government" was usurped. While many in the other key group must be seriously questioning how their noble cause has been so dramatically hijacked over the last few years.

Protest_two_sides.jpg

Alas, there will be few winners while divide-and-conquer leadership prevails. So, it's hardly likely we'll see any genuine unification happening soon!

This is where you make a tiny mistake. Suthep and CO never wanted a true democracy, they wanted exactly this. It's no surprise that Suthep endorsed the constitution publicly.

Some of this supporters have indeed be tricked by the man, but considering his history, they should have known better...

[tbthailand]

Nice photo...

round 'em up.

[ksamuiguy]

what is wrong with the last Constitution (the one voted in by the public), amend some parts, but all and all it was in my opinion at least a solid base to build from.

[Srikcir]

what is wrong with the last Constitution (the one voted in by the public), amend some parts, but all and all it was in my opinion at least a solid base to build from.

Fundamentally, the 2007 Constitution failed to institutionalize direct control of an elected government by the military. Thus requiring a continuation of military coups that expses it to public scrutiny. I believe it prefers to be emeshed covertly as part of the Dark State wherein it can remain hidden from the public eye.