Michelle Obama’s barnstorming speech makes case for Clinton and America

[PTC]

I think PTC won't recover from that one.

PTC presumes that anyone that disagrees with Michelle Obama must be white. Why would a non-white person disagree with anything she said?

I'm looking forward to watching him worm out of this one. My guess - he'll now try to discover your ethnicity hoping that you are both non-white and non-African American. Then he can return to his spiel because you can be a Nazi again.

I think we (me at least) have taken this OP to the far reaches. There is nothing further to say without going off topic or risking inflammation. Thank you.

Looks like you won't be seeing my response then. Missed it by 15 minutes. Pity. That other poster fan boy of yours does't have the chops on this one to keep up.

[Credo]

Ezzra, correct me if I'm wrong as I'm making a bit of a guess here... but from the tenor of your previous posts, I'm assuming you're Jewish.

So my question to you is this; have you yourself successfully let go the massive, almost incomprehensible trials and tribulations your people suffered in just the last century alone? I would be very much amazed if you have.

Because if I was Jewish, and not just a country hick from the Bush of Australia, I would NEVER forget what the Jewish people have historically endured. And I would be ever vigilant to ensure that it never happens again, in any form or fashion.

Could I forgive? Possibly. Could I forget? Never. I would hazard the guess that it is a similar situation for the majority of African Americans today, whatever we as non-African Americans may think or say.

I'm part Cherokee Indian. Should I walk around pissed off and with a chip on my shoulder because of what the US government has done and continues to do to Native Americans?

That doesn't sound very productive to me.

In the case of blacks, it is statistical fact their biggest danger is other blacks. It seems to me some prioritization is in order.

Mrs. Obama's speech was poignant. Unlike some politician's she is not likely to call you Pochantas or to start singing 'Pow Wow the Indian boy.'

[NovaBlue05]

She gave an inspiring and truthful speech. She is a credit to her race and to her country.

"credit to her race"?

[Linzz]

# Post 60

"I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation."

I answered an earlier post on the Press not often covering reverse racism. I included Tweets from Black Lives Matter members. They disappeared. Maybe I am suffering from alzheimer's but I'm sure it was on this thread. I presume the TVF moderator thought they were inflammatory, but they were not my tweets nor was I promoting them but simply providing examples of bias. There was no post from the moderator saying anything about the removal of my posts and I don't want to cast aspersions, so perhaps it was a technical glitch. I retry.

Question: Does Michelle Obama support Black Lives Matter? Were there representatives at the Convention? there were no cops in uniforms.

Sever won't upload Tweet images. Maybe blacklisted now? Is this an information war?

Example Tweet " Feels Good To See Niggas Knocking These Pigs Off" #Black Lives Matter

So PTC maybe you feel that it is more likely you can be killed by a cop than a terrorist in the US? But in your estimation we have to unequivocally say yes to Black Lives Matter ? and without caveats or yes buts? Are you sure? Did you also celebrate the murder of the Dallas cops?

http://www.infowars.com/sick-black-lives-matter-supporters-celebrate-murder-of-dallas-cops/

Edited July 29, 2016 by Linzz

[Dagnabbit]

It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices. Such voices are informed by their past and present. Naturally they present a different perspective; one that is incomprehensible to those who lack the ability to empathize or understand.

Such people will be the reason why racial issues will be difficult to resolve in America. Such people expect all non whites to assimilate to the white culture. This is their interpretation of 'melting pot'. Once assimilated, then non white history is erased, irrelevant and immaterial. Thus there should be no recourse to the sins of the past. Even if those sins are prevalent in the present. This 'Assimilationist' view of racial reconciliation is a cultural cul-de-sac. It leads nowhere but th maintenance of the privilege that its exponents crave.

Racial reconciliation will not happen until systems and institutions provide equal treatment for all. People can retain their individual and personal likes and dislikes; not liking the 'cut of one's jib' so to speak, but an immigrant society must ensure that the privileges and benefits derived from history and confined to one group are available to all.

The bankruptcy of morality and reason lies with those who wish to maintain the oppression, degradation and marginalisation of th non conformist. I stand on the side of the first Black President and his magnificent, fulfilling and inclusive oratory introducing the first female candidate for President in history. How ironic that it takes a black man, or to descend to the miscegenation of the nasties, a half black man, to define what modern America is and will be.

PMSL - "White Privilege" - what a sick concept that is. That all white people are by default racist because they benefit from white privilege.

That whole concept is complete nonsense and is simply used in a lame attempt to stifle discussion.

Look at your post "such people" can't do this. "such people" can't understand that. That is divisive, offensive nonsense.

As for "equal treatment for all" - who is not treated equally in 2016? Aaaaaaah - white privilege is an automatic assumption of better treatment.

Victim culture at it's finest.

I am not white. I have never in my entire life mentally envisioned the race of a person on the other end of a post; why would a human do this? For what reason might someone calculate their rational response to another relative to the imagined color of another person's skin?

Never...I am LMFAO now because fewer things make my point so clearly as the above racism insinuation. The left cultivates race and where facts fail, they drive on blindly. I am not white! (Now I recall why this poster is blocked)

White privilege is a corruption of blood, blood libel. It is the most antithetical concept to free and reasoned things possible. Corruption of blood is no different then slavery, in formula, just application.

There are fewer ways to note the deplorable mentality of a human, their reason on display to be considered fully, then offer "white privilege" in a sentence. It is very Rwanda-like, machete, balkanize, eugenics-like concept. Only a depraved psyche would find comfort in such a notion. How one can scream "NOT-RACE" for indicting another race for being born is the nadir of leftist thinking. Humanity offers few examples of such an equally vacuous assertion (but there are a few, and also kin of the left).

In any event, Michelle is an unremarkable human being and afforded adulation because she stands in the aura of cult of personality- her man. I don't do cult of personality and have no room for the otherwise mediocre; she is both, bearing the light of another's aura, and mediocre. Indeed, her single most well known endeavor is an abominable failure and has kids repulsed and protesting in cafeterias across America.

Her husband, who I equally detest, actually is a remarkable human being (in the same way that even bad guys make it to Time Mag cover) and like him or not is due his place in history, for better or worse. That man has carved a place in history, he simply is... worthy of a degree of hat tipping, even as foe. Michelle? She has nothing. She married some guy and had kids. She variously agitated for race all her life. If it is offered she is entitled to a measure of accolade because she is the president's wife... Ah... Wrong! No, she is not. She is simply...unremarkable except in an unpleasant nature.

Who said you were white? Your skin color has no bearing on this issue. You speak as a product of a system and a set of institutions that marginalize minorities including non whites. There are many non whites who participate whole-heartedly in the maintenance of this system. As a product of this system, you are unable to hear Black Voices. You may well be Black yourself and still unable to hear Michelle Obama's voice. Your derision and scorn is palpable. But you are not Black. Of that, I am certain but as I said, it does not matter.

Offering the dullard thesis of the Left as emotional provides you no cover. I do not reference emotion. I do not discuss personal likes and dislikes. I state this specifically. I refer to systems and institutions. America was built on slavery. The mentality that allows for the enslavement of other humans forms part of the very DNA of America and its institutions and contribute to the the marginalization of non-whites and non conformists to this day. Nothing emotional about this statement. It can be verified by reams of statistics and data about the demographics of poverty, crime, lower educational opportunity etc.

Despite the many programs intended to redress these issues, such marginalization persists. It is clear that those who control and benefit from the system and institutions that marginalize minorities must be willing to accept Minority Voices. I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation. The first lesson that is learned in anti-racism classes is to confront one's own racism. until that is done, you cannot move to the 2nd lesson.

I do not address your clear dislike of Michelle Obama. That is your prerogative. I do not address the word salad of outrage against someone daring to confront the language of the oppressor. I certainly do not follow the bizarre and quite incendiary path with the 'blood libel' thing which has centuries of quite vile and vicious history behind it. To raise it in response to an argument about racism and white privilege is, to be frank, massive over-reach.

You say there is an insinuation of racism? yet I did not call you racist. You reveal what your skin color is not. Why? It would seem that you claim the 'right' to appeal to emotion, something that you accuse the Left of doing. There was no name calling. Your out of control response to the term White Privilege is both emotive and illogical. This is compounded by more unverifiable insinuations. So in the end, I believe my point is proven. That there can be no progress on racial reconciliation until those who are invested in the system that I refer to as White Privilege are willing and able to hear Minority Voices. This has nothing to do with your skin color or whether you like or dislike an individual of whatever race, creed or religion.

"Who said you were white?"

Your actual words to him were:

"It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices."

Your nonsense, your baseless accusations of racism have been exposed for what they are - utter nonsense.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[PTC]

Who said you were white? Your skin color has no bearing on this issue. You speak as a product of a system and a set of institutions that marginalize minorities including non whites. There are many non whites who participate whole-heartedly in the maintenance of this system. As a product of this system, you are unable to hear Black Voices. You may well be Black yourself and still unable to hear Michelle Obama's voice. Your derision and scorn is palpable. But you are not Black. Of that, I am certain but as I said, it does not matter.

Offering the dullard thesis of the Left as emotional provides you no cover. I do not reference emotion. I do not discuss personal likes and dislikes. I state this specifically. I refer to systems and institutions. America was built on slavery. The mentality that allows for the enslavement of other humans forms part of the very DNA of America and its institutions and contribute to the the marginalization of non-whites and non conformists to this day. Nothing emotional about this statement. It can be verified by reams of statistics and data about the demographics of poverty, crime, lower educational opportunity etc.

Despite the many programs intended to redress these issues, such marginalization persists. It is clear that those who control and benefit from the system and institutions that marginalize minorities must be willing to accept Minority Voices. I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation. The first lesson that is learned in anti-racism classes is to confront one's own racism. until that is done, you cannot move to the 2nd lesson.

I do not address your clear dislike of Michelle Obama. That is your prerogative. I do not address the word salad of outrage against someone daring to confront the language of the oppressor. I certainly do not follow the bizarre and quite incendiary path with the 'blood libel' thing which has centuries of quite vile and vicious history behind it. To raise it in response to an argument about racism and white privilege is, to be frank, massive over-reach.

You say there is an insinuation of racism? yet I did not call you racist. You reveal what your skin color is not. Why? It would seem that you claim the 'right' to appeal to emotion, something that you accuse the Left of doing. There was no name calling. Your out of control response to the term White Privilege is both emotive and illogical. This is compounded by more unverifiable insinuations. So in the end, I believe my point is proven. That there can be no progress on racial reconciliation until those who are invested in the system that I refer to as White Privilege are willing and able to hear Minority Voices. This has nothing to do with your skin color or whether you like or dislike an individual of whatever race, creed or religion.

"Who said you were white?"

Your actual words to him were:

"It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices."

Your nonsense, your baseless accusations of racism have been exposed for what they are - utter nonsense.

You may have what opinions you wish. You may not, however, attribute words to others that they have not expressed and which clearly represent cognitive dissonance informed by ideological slant. Clearly you did not read those words of mine that you painstakingly wrote.

The assessment that you are not up to the challenges posed by a discussion on race and racism is confirmed by your own hand.

[PTC]

# Post 60

"I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation."

I answered an earlier post on the Press not often covering reverse racism. I included Tweets from Black Lives Matter members. They disappeared. Maybe I am suffering from alzheimer's but I'm sure it was on this thread. I presume the TVF moderator thought they were inflammatory, but they were not my tweets nor was I promoting them but simply providing examples of bias. There was no post from the moderator saying anything about the removal of my posts and I don't want to cast aspersions, so perhaps it was a technical glitch. I retry.

Question: Does Michelle Obama support Black Lives Matter? Were there representatives at the Convention? there were no cops in uniforms.

Sever won't upload Tweet images. Maybe blacklisted now? Is this an information war?

Example Tweet " Feels Good To See Niggas Knocking These Pigs Off" #Black Lives Matter

So PTC maybe you feel that it is more likely you can be killed by a cop than a terrorist in the US? But in your estimation we have to unequivocally say yes to Black Lives Matter ? and without caveats or yes buts? Are you sure? Did you also celebrate the murder of the Dallas cops?

http://www.infowars.com/sick-black-lives-matter-supporters-celebrate-murder-of-dallas-cops/

You complain that the media does not cover reverse racism? Perhaps because this concept is a figment of the fevered right wing ideologue who cannot accept uppity minorities challenging the status quo. For the avoidance of doubt, when discussion racism as a construct, reverse racism does not exist. The idea that non white people may not like white people based on the absence of color from their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise.

Racism = Privilege and Power

Anger is a legitimate response to oppression

Attempts to rectify systematic injustices are not examples of reverse racism

Having spaces set aside for people of color is not racist

White people are not oppressed

Prejudice and racism are not the same thing

Hard truths are not racist. They are just hard to hear.

http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/

It is the height of dishonesty to deploy information to purposefully misrepresent facts. Your sample tweet, unattributed, you attribute to

BLM simply because of the use of a hashtag. You provide no evidence that this is a statement from the organization in question.

"There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans," the Black Lives Matter group wrote. "We should reject all of this...

Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday's attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us," BLM wrote. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-shooting-black-lives-matter-leaders-respond/

Thus your dishonesty is revealed.

This is compounded by a direct and scurrilous accusation that my support of the objectives of BLM and the quite unequivocal position that yes, black lives do matter, together with all lives but as a political movement BLM is perfectly justified in their position - that this equates directly to a personal endorsement of the murder of law enforcement offices in Dallas.

Support of the murder of Dallas cops by people who also support BLM does not mean that BLM supports such things. Such basic syllogism is recognized by even the most neophyte critical thinker. Consequently, it can be assumed that your entire position is tainted by ideology. And the insinuations directed personally are very low class.

[Dagnabbit]

Who said you were white? Your skin color has no bearing on this issue. You speak as a product of a system and a set of institutions that marginalize minorities including non whites. There are many non whites who participate whole-heartedly in the maintenance of this system. As a product of this system, you are unable to hear Black Voices. You may well be Black yourself and still unable to hear Michelle Obama's voice. Your derision and scorn is palpable. But you are not Black. Of that, I am certain but as I said, it does not matter.

Offering the dullard thesis of the Left as emotional provides you no cover. I do not reference emotion. I do not discuss personal likes and dislikes. I state this specifically. I refer to systems and institutions. America was built on slavery. The mentality that allows for the enslavement of other humans forms part of the very DNA of America and its institutions and contribute to the the marginalization of non-whites and non conformists to this day. Nothing emotional about this statement. It can be verified by reams of statistics and data about the demographics of poverty, crime, lower educational opportunity etc.

Despite the many programs intended to redress these issues, such marginalization persists. It is clear that those who control and benefit from the system and institutions that marginalize minorities must be willing to accept Minority Voices. I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation. The first lesson that is learned in anti-racism classes is to confront one's own racism. until that is done, you cannot move to the 2nd lesson.

I do not address your clear dislike of Michelle Obama. That is your prerogative. I do not address the word salad of outrage against someone daring to confront the language of the oppressor. I certainly do not follow the bizarre and quite incendiary path with the 'blood libel' thing which has centuries of quite vile and vicious history behind it. To raise it in response to an argument about racism and white privilege is, to be frank, massive over-reach.

You say there is an insinuation of racism? yet I did not call you racist. You reveal what your skin color is not. Why? It would seem that you claim the 'right' to appeal to emotion, something that you accuse the Left of doing. There was no name calling. Your out of control response to the term White Privilege is both emotive and illogical. This is compounded by more unverifiable insinuations. So in the end, I believe my point is proven. That there can be no progress on racial reconciliation until those who are invested in the system that I refer to as White Privilege are willing and able to hear Minority Voices. This has nothing to do with your skin color or whether you like or dislike an individual of whatever race, creed or religion.

"Who said you were white?"

Your actual words to him were:

"It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices."

Your nonsense, your baseless accusations of racism have been exposed for what they are - utter nonsense.

You may have what opinions you wish. You may not, however, attribute words to others that they have not expressed and which clearly represent cognitive dissonance informed by ideological slant. Clearly you did not read those words of mine that you painstakingly wrote.

The assessment that you are not up to the challenges posed by a discussion on race and racism is confirmed by your own hand.

This from the man who can "tell you aren't black" by reading a post on an internet forum.

So black people write differently do they?

Let's face it. You are attempting to appear intelligent by using big words. But you fail because you just accuse as opposed to making a coherent, well thought out point.

[PTC]

Who said you were white? Your skin color has no bearing on this issue. You speak as a product of a system and a set of institutions that marginalize minorities including non whites. There are many non whites who participate whole-heartedly in the maintenance of this system. As a product of this system, you are unable to hear Black Voices. You may well be Black yourself and still unable to hear Michelle Obama's voice. Your derision and scorn is palpable. But you are not Black. Of that, I am certain but as I said, it does not matter.

Offering the dullard thesis of the Left as emotional provides you no cover. I do not reference emotion. I do not discuss personal likes and dislikes. I state this specifically. I refer to systems and institutions. America was built on slavery. The mentality that allows for the enslavement of other humans forms part of the very DNA of America and its institutions and contribute to the the marginalization of non-whites and non conformists to this day. Nothing emotional about this statement. It can be verified by reams of statistics and data about the demographics of poverty, crime, lower educational opportunity etc.

Despite the many programs intended to redress these issues, such marginalization persists. It is clear that those who control and benefit from the system and institutions that marginalize minorities must be willing to accept Minority Voices. I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation. The first lesson that is learned in anti-racism classes is to confront one's own racism. until that is done, you cannot move to the 2nd lesson.

I do not address your clear dislike of Michelle Obama. That is your prerogative. I do not address the word salad of outrage against someone daring to confront the language of the oppressor. I certainly do not follow the bizarre and quite incendiary path with the 'blood libel' thing which has centuries of quite vile and vicious history behind it. To raise it in response to an argument about racism and white privilege is, to be frank, massive over-reach.

You say there is an insinuation of racism? yet I did not call you racist. You reveal what your skin color is not. Why? It would seem that you claim the 'right' to appeal to emotion, something that you accuse the Left of doing. There was no name calling. Your out of control response to the term White Privilege is both emotive and illogical. This is compounded by more unverifiable insinuations. So in the end, I believe my point is proven. That there can be no progress on racial reconciliation until those who are invested in the system that I refer to as White Privilege are willing and able to hear Minority Voices. This has nothing to do with your skin color or whether you like or dislike an individual of whatever race, creed or religion.

"Who said you were white?"

Your actual words to him were:

"It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices."

Your nonsense, your baseless accusations of racism have been exposed for what they are - utter nonsense.

You may have what opinions you wish. You may not, however, attribute words to others that they have not expressed and which clearly represent cognitive dissonance informed by ideological slant. Clearly you did not read those words of mine that you painstakingly wrote.

The assessment that you are not up to the challenges posed by a discussion on race and racism is confirmed by your own hand.

This from the man who can "tell you aren't black" by reading a post on an internet forum.

So black people write differently do they?

Let's face it. You are attempting to appear intelligent by using big words. But you fail because you just accuse as opposed to making a coherent, well thought out point.

Don't blame me if you do not know the meaning of some words in the English language. May I suggest a dictionary or google to help alleviate your challenges. Similarly, your constant accusation of incoherence, nonsensiccal and pointless expression is not countered by any direct argument. Why do you not attack my core premise that racism is a construct? You do not justify your assumption that racism is solely a personal prejudice. You offer nothing in the face of my contention that people invested in a system of power based on racial discrimination will speak for that system irrespective of their own race. There are 3 arguments that you can start with.

But of course there will be no response beyond perpetual slurs and insults. Like I said, you don't have the chops for this one. Perhaps take on an easier subject, like Hillary's emails.

As for your personal accusations on my intelligence or as you say, my desire to 'appear' intelligent, I have often been accused of elitism. I have no problem with the idea of elitism as long as it is based on merit and not inherited privilege. However, my style of expression is determined by my experience, my education and the people with whom I wish to communicate. Such people do not include you, so it is not necessary for me to use 4th Grade reading level words in the manner of Trump. I know that irrespective of the words I use, the right wing nit wits on TVF blowing hard their rants and rages of dispossession will not be swayed by any words of mine, 'big' or otherwise.

Since i make my living from words, I have always taken to heart the advice from one of my favorite literary works, Antigone by Sophocles where Creon in the final verse of that brilliant, moving masterpiece says:

"The arrogant pay for their big proud words with great downfalls and it’s only then, in their old age that they gain wisdom!"

http://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Greek/Antigone.htm

So I have been keenly aware since I first read that work in my teens that "Big Words will be Punished".

Exit all

Edited July 29, 2016 by PTC

[up2u2]

It would not be inconceivable for the first black lady of the usa to AVOID commenting on slaves and white house. However, suggesting there is an imperative to at least do this once due to the gravity and solemnity of the occasion over looks a very important fact: Michelle Obama has repeatedly offered this refrain. For years she has offered this same line and numerous others to conspire her tightly weaved, closely held, deep antipathy for people not like her.

Or she could just be the first African American woman to live in the White House built by slaves and see her Black children playing on the White House lawn and reflecting on her Peoples history. It would be inconceivable that the point was not made. There are many racist White folk who cannot accept that an inferior race like an African American can be in the White House. Well she certainly did triumph. Your attack of Michelle says more about you than it does about her.

Is her assertion she is a slave descendant as absurd as Warren's that she is a powwow girl? BS. Show me the proof. Its hate couched as not-hate!

*, who would ever offer such words as "...an inferior race of like african americans...?" Even in satire or parody i could not muster that into a sentence; on circumspection alone I could not easily slide that into my musing.

*, The party of racism and eugenics in the US is Michelle's party; this is an utter fact. From slavery to jim crowe to opposing the civil rights act, it was her own party. Those things I believe have died and struggled to represent all americans for a very long time. From the civil war to 2016, Americans consistently fight against racism and stereotypes and most of them are not in Michelle's party.

Yes, I wear proudly that my indictment of michelle says more about me. I earnestly hope so.

Why wouldn't Michelle Obama continually make the point of the White House being built by slaves and her, a Black woman, being resident there and her young Black children playing on the White House lawn. She is a descendent of African slaves from Georgia.

Michelle's eloquent and beautiful speech has resonated around the free world and it has bought credit to the American People that a descendent of African slaves occupies the White House. Something American's should take great pride in.

That her comments irritate a small ongoing white racist minority in America should not obstruct the positive message this signals to African Americans that the highest Office is achievable.

Michelle should write a book about her slave descendants and her path to the White House lawns.

I doubt the slaves that were treated so cruelly that built the White House could have ever imagined in their wildest fantasies that one day a beautiful elegant Black woman would be in residence with her two young Black daughters playing on the White House lawn. Beyond belief.

[boomerangutang]

Michelle is a great inspiration to girls of color in the US, and around the world. In effect, she's a great role model for girls everywhere. It's rare to get a brown skinned woman on the world stage who is attractive, not old, articulate, charismatic, smart and confident. I can think of Mrs. Gandhi, but few others. I'm a 100% fan of Michelle.

Melania respected her so much, she used whole sentences from one of Michelle's speeches.

[Linzz]

# Post 60

"I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation."

I answered an earlier post on the Press not often covering reverse racism. I included Tweets from Black Lives Matter members. They disappeared. Maybe I am suffering from alzheimer's but I'm sure it was on this thread. I presume the TVF moderator thought they were inflammatory, but they were not my tweets nor was I promoting them but simply providing examples of bias. There was no post from the moderator saying anything about the removal of my posts and I don't want to cast aspersions, so perhaps it was a technical glitch. I retry.

Question: Does Michelle Obama support Black Lives Matter? Were there representatives at the Convention? there were no cops in uniforms.

Sever won't upload Tweet images. Maybe blacklisted now? Is this an information war?

Example Tweet " Feels Good To See Niggas Knocking These Pigs Off" #Black Lives Matter

So PTC maybe you feel that it is more likely you can be killed by a cop than a terrorist in the US? But in your estimation we have to unequivocally say yes to Black Lives Matter ? and without caveats or yes buts? Are you sure? Did you also celebrate the murder of the Dallas cops?

http://www.infowars.com/sick-black-lives-matter-supporters-celebrate-murder-of-dallas-cops/

You complain that the media does not cover reverse racism? Perhaps because this concept is a figment of the fevered right wing ideologue who cannot accept uppity minorities challenging the status quo. For the avoidance of doubt, when discussion racism as a construct, reverse racism does not exist. The idea that non white people may not like white people based on the absence of color from their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise.

Racism = Privilege and Power

Anger is a legitimate response to oppression

Attempts to rectify systematic injustices are not examples of reverse racism

Having spaces set aside for people of color is not racist

White people are not oppressed

Prejudice and racism are not the same thing

Hard truths are not racist. They are just hard to hear.

http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/

It is the height of dishonesty to deploy information to purposefully misrepresent facts. Your sample tweet, unattributed, you attribute to

BLM simply because of the use of a hashtag. You provide no evidence that this is a statement from the organization in question.

"There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans," the Black Lives Matter group wrote. "We should reject all of this...

Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday's attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us," BLM wrote. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-shooting-black-lives-matter-leaders-respond/

Thus your dishonesty is revealed.

This is compounded by a direct and scurrilous accusation that my support of the objectives of BLM and the quite unequivocal position that yes, black lives do matter, together with all lives but as a political movement BLM is perfectly justified in their position - that this equates directly to a personal endorsement of the murder of law enforcement offices in Dallas.

Support of the murder of Dallas cops by people who also support BLM does not mean that BLM supports such things. Such basic syllogism is recognized by even the most neophyte critical thinker. Consequently, it can be assumed that your entire position is tainted by ideology. And the insinuations directed personally are very low class.

Lol !! Thank you for your verbose condescension from on high. I'm sure I would hear plum in mouth if it wasn't written.The heady stratosphere must be intoxicating to the ego since why use one simple word when you can gush twenty esoteric to your target audience? Especially when you insert them into another's mouth in order to achieve the confirmation you want.

I never complained that the media did not cover reverse racism. I commented on another post complaining of it and provided some publications. I really didn't need the tedious doctrinaire lecture on "racism as a construct" thanks all the same The idea that non black people may not like black people based on the presence of color in their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise, yep I get that 100%. This is what you mean, right?

Again you are very quick to jump to the opinionated conclusions you wish to prove and very personal with it. If you care to Google BLM there are #BLM Tweets to be found. Of course I can't prove who wrote them any more than I can prove you're not a member. (If you are you may find you are asked to stand at the back if you are white, but you won't mind). It is reasonable to assume they are written by supporters who use the hashtag in order to identify with the group if they are not already members. I would assume that from KKK tweets too. It is also more than the actions of one person. However your post saying that the leaders call for an end to violence is a redeeming feature. But the militancy expressed in the DNC when a police representative called for a moment of silence for the families of police victims said enough for me. That moment was not respected and was cut across with Black Lives Matter chants. That was saying police officer's families were not worth the minute's silence.The manner in which BLM hijacked Bernie's microphones at one rally told me by their demeanor, the mentality of their representatives. This is enough evidence for me personally not to wish to "support unequivocally without caveats or yes buts" regardless of what leaders say. Up to you if you want to excuse away what you tolerate from the left but damn from the right. If that makes me an "oppressor" in your eyes then it really only expresses the depth of the taint in your own simplistic ideology which I imagine started from a well meaning beginning but now has morphed like most religious doctrines, into extremism and error. Reality and idealism rarely mix but when forced together produces dogma.

You are very quick also to call other TVF member's dishonest and low class. I never spoke direct insults to you. I did ask questions (but never assumed) to get your response and you obliged. Your patronising demeanor to other posters also is typical of the extreme left who imagine they belong to an exclusive intellect which in my view is akin to zealotry. The desire to stroke one's ego through writing clever dialogue to assert some kind of superior cult status is counterproductive to your cause.

[Linzz]

"Who said you were white?"

Your actual words to him were:

"It is not surprising that someone who has benefited from White Privilege is unable to comprehend Black Voices."

Your nonsense, your baseless accusations of racism have been exposed for what they are - utter nonsense.

You may have what opinions you wish. You may not, however, attribute words to others that they have not expressed and which clearly represent cognitive dissonance informed by ideological slant. Clearly you did not read those words of mine that you painstakingly wrote.

The assessment that you are not up to the challenges posed by a discussion on race and racism is confirmed by your own hand.

This from the man who can "tell you aren't black" by reading a post on an internet forum.

So black people write differently do they?

Let's face it. You are attempting to appear intelligent by using big words. But you fail because you just accuse as opposed to making a coherent, well thought out point.

Don't blame me if you do not know the meaning of some words in the English language. May I suggest a dictionary or google to help alleviate your challenges. Similarly, your constant accusation of incoherence, nonsensiccal and pointless expression is not countered by any direct argument. Why do you not attack my core premise that racism is a construct? You do not justify your assumption that racism is solely a personal prejudice. You offer nothing in the face of my contention that people invested in a system of power based on racial discrimination will speak for that system irrespective of their own race. There are 3 arguments that you can start with.

But of course there will be no response beyond perpetual slurs and insults. Like I said, you don't have the chops for this one. Perhaps take on an easier subject, like Hillary's emails.

As for your personal accusations on my intelligence or as you say, my desire to 'appear' intelligent, I have often been accused of elitism. I have no problem with the idea of elitism as long as it is based on merit and not inherited privilege. However, my style of expression is determined by my experience, my education and the people with whom I wish to communicate. Such people do not include you, so it is not necessary for me to use 4th Grade reading level words in the manner of Trump. I know that irrespective of the words I use, the right wing nit wits on TVF blowing hard their rants and rages of dispossession will not be swayed by any words of mine, 'big' or otherwise.

Since i make my living from words, I have always taken to heart the advice from one of my favorite literary works, Antigone by Sophocles where Creon in the final verse of that brilliant, moving masterpiece says:

"The arrogant pay for their big proud words with great downfalls and it’s only then, in their old age that they gain wisdom!"

http://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Greek/Antigone.htm

So I have been keenly aware since I first read that work in my teens that "Big Words will be Punished".

Exit all

Oh now I've seen this. Great! Keep reciting. I take it you are not very old.

[Freakin Musashi]

I was listening for someone to say something about Black Lives Matter. At several points, they seemed to begin to mention it, but quickly segued into mourning for fallen police officers. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I expected someone to speak up for the BLM movement.

[PTC]

# Post 60

"I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation."

I answered an earlier post on the Press not often covering reverse racism. I included Tweets from Black Lives Matter members. They disappeared. Maybe I am suffering from alzheimer's but I'm sure it was on this thread. I presume the TVF moderator thought they were inflammatory, but they were not my tweets nor was I promoting them but simply providing examples of bias. There was no post from the moderator saying anything about the removal of my posts and I don't want to cast aspersions, so perhaps it was a technical glitch. I retry.

Question: Does Michelle Obama support Black Lives Matter? Were there representatives at the Convention? there were no cops in uniforms.

Sever won't upload Tweet images. Maybe blacklisted now? Is this an information war?

Example Tweet " Feels Good To See Niggas Knocking These Pigs Off" #Black Lives Matter

So PTC maybe you feel that it is more likely you can be killed by a cop than a terrorist in the US? But in your estimation we have to unequivocally say yes to Black Lives Matter ? and without caveats or yes buts? Are you sure? Did you also celebrate the murder of the Dallas cops?

http://www.infowars.com/sick-black-lives-matter-supporters-celebrate-murder-of-dallas-cops/

You complain that the media does not cover reverse racism? Perhaps because this concept is a figment of the fevered right wing ideologue who cannot accept uppity minorities challenging the status quo. For the avoidance of doubt, when discussion racism as a construct, reverse racism does not exist. The idea that non white people may not like white people based on the absence of color from their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise.

Racism = Privilege and Power

Anger is a legitimate response to oppression

Attempts to rectify systematic injustices are not examples of reverse racism

Having spaces set aside for people of color is not racist

White people are not oppressed

Prejudice and racism are not the same thing

Hard truths are not racist. They are just hard to hear.

http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/

It is the height of dishonesty to deploy information to purposefully misrepresent facts. Your sample tweet, unattributed, you attribute to

BLM simply because of the use of a hashtag. You provide no evidence that this is a statement from the organization in question.

"There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans," the Black Lives Matter group wrote. "We should reject all of this...

Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday's attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us," BLM wrote. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-shooting-black-lives-matter-leaders-respond/

Thus your dishonesty is revealed.

This is compounded by a direct and scurrilous accusation that my support of the objectives of BLM and the quite unequivocal position that yes, black lives do matter, together with all lives but as a political movement BLM is perfectly justified in their position - that this equates directly to a personal endorsement of the murder of law enforcement offices in Dallas.

Support of the murder of Dallas cops by people who also support BLM does not mean that BLM supports such things. Such basic syllogism is recognized by even the most neophyte critical thinker. Consequently, it can be assumed that your entire position is tainted by ideology. And the insinuations directed personally are very low class.

Lol !! Thank you for your verbose condescension from on high. I'm sure I would hear plum in mouth if it wasn't written.The heady stratosphere must be intoxicating to the ego since why use one simple word when you can gush twenty esoteric to your target audience? Especially when you insert them into another's mouth in order to achieve the confirmation you want.

I never complained that the media did not cover reverse racism. I commented on another post complaining of it and provided some publications. I really didn't need the tedious doctrinaire lecture on "racism as a construct" thanks all the same The idea that non black people may not like black people based on the presence of color in their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise, yep I get that 100%. This is what you mean, right?

Again you are very quick to jump to the opinionated conclusions you wish to prove and very personal with it. If you care to Google BLM there are #BLM Tweets to be found. Of course I can't prove who wrote them any more than I can prove you're not a member. (If you are you may find you are asked to stand at the back if you are white, but you won't mind). It is reasonable to assume they are written by supporters who use the hashtag in order to identify with the group if they are not already members. I would assume that from KKK tweets too. It is also more than the actions of one person. However your post saying that the leaders call for an end to violence is a redeeming feature. But the militancy expressed in the DNC when a police representative called for a moment of silence for the families of police victims said enough for me. That moment was not respected and was cut across with Black Lives Matter chants. That was saying police officer's families were not worth the minute's silence.The manner in which BLM hijacked Bernie's microphones at one rally told me by their demeanor, the mentality of their representatives. This is enough evidence for me personally not to wish to "support unequivocally without caveats or yes buts" regardless of what leaders say. Up to you if you want to excuse away what you tolerate from the left but damn from the right. If that makes me an "oppressor" in your eyes then it really only expresses the depth of the taint in your own simplistic ideology which I imagine started from a well meaning beginning but now has morphed like most religious doctrines, into extremism and error. Reality and idealism rarely mix but when forced together produces dogma.

You are very quick also to call other TVF member's dishonest and low class. I never spoke direct insults to you. I did ask questions (but never assumed) to get your response and you obliged. Your patronising demeanor to other posters also is typical of the extreme left who imagine they belong to an exclusive intellect which in my view is akin to zealotry. The desire to stroke one's ego through writing clever dialogue to assert some kind of superior cult status is counterproductive to your cause.

You cannot support BLM revolutionaries because they are impolite? How bourgeoisie.

[Jingthing]

She gave an inspiring and truthful speech. She is a credit to her race and to her country.

That's a sweet thought but really to say someone is a credit to their race is a very dated thing to say. But she's certainly a credit to the HUMAN race.

[Ulysses G.]

She gave an inspiring and truthful speech. She is a credit to her race and to her country.

That's a sweet thought but really to say someone is a credit to their race is a very dated thing to say.

If the person who says it is a conservative, the left-wingers would consider it downright RACIST,

[Jingthing]

She gave an inspiring and truthful speech. She is a credit to her race and to her country.

That's a sweet thought but really to say someone is a credit to their race is a very dated thing to say.

If the person who says it is a conservative, the left-wingers would consider it downright RACIST,

I reckon to black people it sounds racist whoever says it. People haven't used that phrase for decades.

[Linzz]

# Post 60

"I have written before my belief that until the answer to Black Lives Matter is Yes, unequivocally and without caveats or 'yes buts', then a person is not ready to confront racism and there will be no chance of reconciliation."

I answered an earlier post on the Press not often covering reverse racism. I included Tweets from Black Lives Matter members. They disappeared. Maybe I am suffering from alzheimer's but I'm sure it was on this thread. I presume the TVF moderator thought they were inflammatory, but they were not my tweets nor was I promoting them but simply providing examples of bias. There was no post from the moderator saying anything about the removal of my posts and I don't want to cast aspersions, so perhaps it was a technical glitch. I retry.

Question: Does Michelle Obama support Black Lives Matter? Were there representatives at the Convention? there were no cops in uniforms.

Sever won't upload Tweet images. Maybe blacklisted now? Is this an information war?

Example Tweet " Feels Good To See Niggas Knocking These Pigs Off" #Black Lives Matter

So PTC maybe you feel that it is more likely you can be killed by a cop than a terrorist in the US? But in your estimation we have to unequivocally say yes to Black Lives Matter ? and without caveats or yes buts? Are you sure? Did you also celebrate the murder of the Dallas cops?

http://www.infowars.com/sick-black-lives-matter-supporters-celebrate-murder-of-dallas-cops/

You complain that the media does not cover reverse racism? Perhaps because this concept is a figment of the fevered right wing ideologue who cannot accept uppity minorities challenging the status quo. For the avoidance of doubt, when discussion racism as a construct, reverse racism does not exist. The idea that non white people may not like white people based on the absence of color from their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise.

Racism = Privilege and Power

Anger is a legitimate response to oppression

Attempts to rectify systematic injustices are not examples of reverse racism

Having spaces set aside for people of color is not racist

White people are not oppressed

Prejudice and racism are not the same thing

Hard truths are not racist. They are just hard to hear.

http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/

It is the height of dishonesty to deploy information to purposefully misrepresent facts. Your sample tweet, unattributed, you attribute to

BLM simply because of the use of a hashtag. You provide no evidence that this is a statement from the organization in question.

"There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans," the Black Lives Matter group wrote. "We should reject all of this...

Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday's attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us," BLM wrote. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-shooting-black-lives-matter-leaders-respond/

Thus your dishonesty is revealed.

This is compounded by a direct and scurrilous accusation that my support of the objectives of BLM and the quite unequivocal position that yes, black lives do matter, together with all lives but as a political movement BLM is perfectly justified in their position - that this equates directly to a personal endorsement of the murder of law enforcement offices in Dallas.

Support of the murder of Dallas cops by people who also support BLM does not mean that BLM supports such things. Such basic syllogism is recognized by even the most neophyte critical thinker. Consequently, it can be assumed that your entire position is tainted by ideology. And the insinuations directed personally are very low class.

Lol !! Thank you for your verbose condescension from on high. I'm sure I would hear plum in mouth if it wasn't written.The heady stratosphere must be intoxicating to the ego since why use one simple word when you can gush twenty esoteric to your target audience? Especially when you insert them into another's mouth in order to achieve the confirmation you want.

I never complained that the media did not cover reverse racism. I commented on another post complaining of it and provided some publications. I really didn't need the tedious doctrinaire lecture on "racism as a construct" thanks all the same The idea that non black people may not like black people based on the presence of color in their skin is prejudicial but entirely personal and is not racism, reverse or otherwise, yep I get that 100%. This is what you mean, right?

Again you are very quick to jump to the opinionated conclusions you wish to prove and very personal with it. If you care to Google BLM there are #BLM Tweets to be found. Of course I can't prove who wrote them any more than I can prove you're not a member. (If you are you may find you are asked to stand at the back if you are white, but you won't mind). It is reasonable to assume they are written by supporters who use the hashtag in order to identify with the group if they are not already members. I would assume that from KKK tweets too. It is also more than the actions of one person. However your post saying that the leaders call for an end to violence is a redeeming feature. But the militancy expressed in the DNC when a police representative called for a moment of silence for the families of police victims said enough for me. That moment was not respected and was cut across with Black Lives Matter chants. That was saying police officer's families were not worth the minute's silence.The manner in which BLM hijacked Bernie's microphones at one rally told me by their demeanor, the mentality of their representatives. This is enough evidence for me personally not to wish to "support unequivocally without caveats or yes buts" regardless of what leaders say. Up to you if you want to excuse away what you tolerate from the left but damn from the right. If that makes me an "oppressor" in your eyes then it really only expresses the depth of the taint in your own simplistic ideology which I imagine started from a well meaning beginning but now has morphed like most religious doctrines, into extremism and error. Reality and idealism rarely mix but when forced together produces dogma.

You are very quick also to call other TVF member's dishonest and low class. I never spoke direct insults to you. I did ask questions (but never assumed) to get your response and you obliged. Your patronising demeanor to other posters also is typical of the extreme left who imagine they belong to an exclusive intellect which in my view is akin to zealotry. The desire to stroke one's ego through writing clever dialogue to assert some kind of superior cult status is counterproductive to your cause.

You cannot support BLM revolutionaries because they are impolite? How bourgeoisie.

How Marxist. Did you say that with a raised fist?

[Credo]

She gave an inspiring and truthful speech. She is a credit to her race and to her country.

That's a sweet thought but really to say someone is a credit to their race is a very dated thing to say. But she's certainly a credit to the HUMAN race.

Well, was referring to the human race, but I am sure some thought otherwise. Good catch, though.

[Scott]

I strongly suggest some members stop with the emotional discussion and get back on topic.

[Chicog]

I think it's fair to say that she's a role model for women.

As opposed to some Eastern European model who got smuggled in with a false declaration and does everything her husband tells her to do.