Obama denies $400M payment to Iran was ransom

[Chicog]

56 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

If it wasn't a ransom, he wouldn't have kept it a secret. This is really basic stuff.

 

If it was a ransom, the Iranians are very stupid.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe that's it. They did have a popular revolution that ushered in a oppressive Islamic dictatorship and now they can't get rid of it - not exactly smart.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Silurian]

44 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Maybe that's it. They did have a popular revolution that ushered in a oppressive Islamic dictatorship and now they can't get rid of it - not exactly smart.

 

As compared to the oppressive Shah government that had before that revolution. The Iranian revolution was actually done with not too much bloodshed. The Shah's forces pretty much collapsed at the end. It is the aftermath when the Iranian people allowed Khomeini too much power was their mistake. They should have had a balance between religious leaders and government leaders but alas Khomeini was too powerful. We are finally seeing a thaw in US-Iranian relations which seem to mirror the US-Cuba thawing. The US needs more allies not enemies.

[ClutchClark]

11 hours ago, thaihome said:

 

You are missing the part that Iran also  agreed at the same time to lower their weapons grade uranium production and lower their stockpile by some 80%. It has been verified that this has taken place as agreed.

 

The problem is for both Obama and the leadership of Iran is they have taken a huge ration of shit internally from their respective right wingnuts for what is a rational, mutually beneficial agreement that has significantly lowered tension in the middle east.

 

The transfer of the $400 million took place and was announced by the white house over 6 months ago. It was only when the WSJ ran an article last week about it being a cash transfer that this even became an issue. The right wingnuts have been desperately looking for some way to make this deal look bad.

 

Then trump, based on stock footage video of pallets of cash shown by CNN, says he has seen a video of the transfer taken by the Iranians and released by them to make the US look bad.  Even his own communication director (the lovely Ms Hicks) admits there is no video, no ransom, and this was done 6 months ago as part of a 3 part deal with Iran to stop their nuclear weapons development. 

 

All facts, all reasonable, all part of international diplomacy that has changed the 30+ year paradigm in the middle east and all you can do is critize it because the the right wingnuts media cannot admit that Obama (with the foundation laid when Hillary was Secretary of State ) has pulled off of a major accomplishment in middle eastern relations.

 

TH 

 

 

 

 

 

Please do show me the posts where I have criticized any of what you suggest.

My posts have focused on the single issue of this $400M cash payment.

 

Nice attempt at clouding the topic of this thread; however, the thread is about the $400M cash ransom paid for the exchange of the hostages.

 

Thaks

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  A post in violation of fair use policy was removed as well as a reply.  

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Please do show me the posts where I have criticized any of what you suggest.

My posts have focused on the single issue of this $400M cash payment.

 

Nice attempt at clouding the topic of this thread; however, the thread is about the $400M cash ransom paid for the exchange of the hostages.

 

Thaks

 

The thread is about Obama explaining that the $400 was not a ransom, but part of a agreement with Iran to stop their development of nuclear weapons and normalize diplomatic and commercial relations. 

 

Key areas of disagreement was Iran holding Americans for allegedly "spying", weapons grade uranium production, US holding money for 1977 broken arms deal and commercial sanctions against Iran (including exclusion from international banking processes).   The US agreed to return the money and begin process to drop sanctions (hence Iranian Airways proposed Boeing purchase). Iran agreed to release the Americans and lower uranium processing and remove significant amounts of nuclear stockpile.

 

Now, which part do you disagree with?

TH

 

 

 

 

[Pakboong]

$400 million is not a lot of money and there really is no reason to make the details of this otherrwise simple transaction public. Intelligence agencies move this kiind of money in and out on a regular basis. So,. with that having been said, something really dirty is being hidden here.

[ClutchClark]

Also from the WSJ article:

 

"The Obama administration has refused to disclose how it paid any of the $1.7 billion, despite congressional queries, outside of saying that it wasn’t paid in dollars. Lawmakers have expressed concern that the cash would be used by Iran to fund regional allies, including the Assad regime in Syria and the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, which the U.S. designates as a terrorist organization."

---------

Where is the transparency obama promised the US citizens?

 

Why stonewall congressional inquiries if this is all above board?

 

 

 

 

[thaihome]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

Also from the WSJ article:

 

"The Obama administration has refused to disclose how it paid any of the $1.7 billion, despite congressional queries, outside of saying that it wasn’t paid in dollars. Lawmakers have expressed concern that the cash would be used by Iran to fund regional allies, including the Assad regime in Syria and the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, which the U.S. designates as a terrorist organization."

---------

Where is the transparency obama promised the US citizens?

 

Why stonewall congressional inquiries if this is all above board?

 

 

 

 

The Obama administration has successfully negotiated an agreement with Iran that has likely avoided a war between Israel and/or Saudi Arabia over the nuclear weapons as neither would have allowed Iran to possess nuclear weapons. This eased tensions in the area as nothing has since the Camp David accords 40 years ago and your reaction is to accuse the Obama administration of a lack of "transparency" because they won't tell the WSJ what currencies were used to give Iran back their money we have been holding for that same 40 years.

 

That is a prime example of pure partisanship politics by the republican party that has frozen the government for the past 6 years.  I guess you would rather see Iran continue to develop nuclear weapons and Israel or Saudi Arabia attack them setting off another major ME war, to say nothing of the 4 Americans that would be still held, then actually admit that the Obama administration has pulled off a major diplomatic achievement. The fact that the Iranian leadership is under attack by their own right wing  for "giving" into the Great Satan shows its a good deal for everyone involved, other then the fanatical right wing in both countries that are willing to go to war rather then admit it was a needed agreement .

 

How about the Boeing -Iran deal? Are you against that as well? 

 

TH 

[louse1953]

On 8/5/2016 at 11:11 AM, ClutchClark said:

 

Boomer, I fear you are getting your centuries confused.

 

No disrespect, it happens to me sometimes as well.

 

But this arms deal and this hostage release with Iran is a new one under obama in 2016.

 

Not the Ollie North hostage for arms deal from back in the day.

 

I far prefer those days myself and don't blame you a bit for taking that trip down memory lane amigo.

"In very simple terms, this payment is the first installment of a refund for a weapons purchase America never delivered. It starts in 1979, the year of the Iranian Revolution."

I like the truth better.

 

[louse1953]

"Trump backs away from claims he saw ‘top secret’ footage of Iranian money transfer "

And some of you want this tool as Prez.Give a megalomaniac more power and we are all doomed.

[slipperylobster]

14 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

"Trump backs away from claims he saw ‘top secret’ footage of Iranian money transfer "

And some of you want this tool as Prez.Give a megalomaniac more power and we are all doomed.

 

So you would ignorantly accept the continuation of the Obama disaster?

 

Whoa...Nelly !    Obama and Hillary have botched the whole Iranian disaster, and Iran sits ready to make a bundle...as well as their first Nukes.

 

This goes down as the most idiotic thing a standing President has ever done....in History!   

 

Lets not even get to his other ignorant foibles....   Then we have to start on Hillary....who just lies about lying.

 

With left wingnutters covering their eyes and ears and singing lalalala....to drown out the truth.....like 12 year old school girls.  Deflection is their only hope...and it is so obvious they just want a woman to be president.....regardless of how irresponsible (like Obama) she is.

 

 

Trump is no wizard...but he sure leaves Obama and Hillary in the dust.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by slipperylobster

[Chicog]

14 minutes ago, slipperylobster said:

 

Trump is no wizard...but he sure leaves Obama and Hillary in the dust.

 

 

Quite a bizarre comment when he is obviously a complete idiot and suffering from ADD.

[Chicog]

4 hours ago, Pakboong said:

$400 million is not a lot of money and there really is no reason to make the details of this otherrwise simple transaction public. Intelligence agencies move this kiind of money in and out on a regular basis. So,. with that having been said, something really dirty is being hidden here.

 

The only thing that was hidden was the movement of the money. I mean really, how dare they not publicise the fact that $400 million in cash was in the wind. What sort of security expert would object to that?

 

[Chicog]

9 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Please do show me the posts where I have criticized any of what you suggest.

My posts have focused on the single issue of this $400M cash payment.

 

Nice attempt at clouding the topic of this thread; however, the thread is about the $400M cash ransom paid for the exchange of the hostages.

 

Thaks

 

The "clouding" that's going on is those trying to mask that this $400 million payment was announced in January.

Personally I call it quite clever to use money they were owed anyway to "buy" something.

 

 

 

[Boon Mee]

Pallets of cash have a predictable effect on hostage-takers. Gee, ya think?

Iran Takes Another American Hostage After Obama’s $400 Million ‘Side Deal

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/08/03/iran-takes-another-american-hostage-obamas-400-million-side-deal/

 

Of course it was a ransom payment.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8148/5-ways-tell-obamas-lying-about-iranian-ransom-aaron-bandler

 

[Neurath]

On 8/5/2016 at 2:03 PM, ClutchClark said:

 

The only thing your link provided was that on january 17, 2016 obama negotiated the release of 5 US hostages and promised the first installment of a 35-year old arms deal that had beharged off long ago. 

 

The timing of these two events being discussed at the same Jan 17 meeting is in itself suspicious but for the actusl transfer of these funds to occur within hours of the hostages release almost 7 months later ties them together beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

Where is Credo? Please let me know when some intelligent obama supporters arrive.

I would very much like to hear an educated counterpoint to all this.

 

 

But would you be able to recognize it?

[Pinot]

40 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Pallets of cash have a predictable effect on hostage-takers. Gee, ya think?

Iran Takes Another American Hostage After Obama’s $400 Million ‘Side Deal

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/08/03/iran-takes-another-american-hostage-obamas-400-million-side-deal/

 

Of course it was a ransom payment.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8148/5-ways-tell-obamas-lying-about-iranian-ransom-aaron-bandler

 

 

The Daily Wire and Breitbart (sigh). 

 

When do the congressional hearings start? What's Trey Gowdy doing these days? He probably has time on his hands now that the Harry Potter movies are finished. (Draco Malfoy reference in keeping with slipperylobster's wizard reference)

 

When you've got absolutely nothing and Donald Trump is your candidate, you start grasping at straws trying in any way to damage the Democrats and HRC. 

 

Think this latest nugget of bullshit has legs for the Republicans? 

 

Good luck, you'll need it. 

 

 

[Chicog]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Pallets of cash have a predictable effect on hostage-takers. Gee, ya think?

Iran Takes Another American Hostage After Obama’s $400 Million ‘Side Deal

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/08/03/iran-takes-another-american-hostage-obamas-400-million-side-deal/

 

They want the rest of the $1.7 Billion.

 

[ClutchClark]

2 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

The "clouding" that's going on is those trying to mask that this $400 million payment was announced in January.

Personally I call it quite clever to use money they were owed anyway to "buy" something.

 

 

 

 

Chicog,

 

I think we have both seen that newsworthy or embarassing actions are often saved with the intent of releasing them at just the right moment for most devastating effect. In this case, Trump kept this one in his pocket until he needed it to get the spotlight off the Kahn screw-up.

 

The decision of when to publice an event like the cash for hostages trade does not make it less true and to be fair it was the highly trusted Wall Street Journal that chose when to expose it.

 

I would agree with you that it is clever to use monies already owed to "buy" something IF the debt was going to be legitimized as this was apparently being determined in Hague. 

 

But to receive credit for being "clever" obama would need to admit that it was a ransom. That is what I don't like about this deal...his attempt to put lipstick on it and call it something else.

 

I guess it would not look real good if the US started negotiating with hostage takers.

[ClutchClark]

@Chicog,

 

Sorry for the frequent typos but this site keeps crashing on me when I attempt to go back and proofread and then I have to start over. 

[slipperylobster]

2 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

Quite a bizarre comment when he is obviously a complete idiot and suffering from ADD.

 

Well then...at least Trump has an excuse.

 

Obama and Hillary must be complete morons..even more so...because there is no excuse for them.

 

You really bit the pickle on that one.

 

[slipperylobster]

Hostage simply stated, in his own words, that the Iranians refused to let him depart until the second plane (with the ransom money) landed.

 

We can all apply the "KISS" method to Obama and his insanely idiotic denials/logic when dealing with the  Middle East...

 

Keep it simple....stupid. (same for Hillary)

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by slipperylobster

[thaihome]

19 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Chicog,

 

I think we have both seen that newsworthy or embarassing actions are often saved with the intent of releasing them at just the right moment for most devastating effect. In this case, Trump kept this one in his pocket until he needed it to get the spotlight off the Kahn screw-up.

 

The decision of when to publice an event like the cash for hostages trade does not make it less true and to be fair it was the highly trusted Wall Street Journal that chose when to expose it.

 

I would agree with you that it is clever to use monies already owed to "buy" something IF the debt was going to be legitimized as this was apparently being determined in Hague. 

 

But to receive credit for being "clever" obama would need to admit that it was a ransom. That is what I don't like about this deal...his attempt to put lipstick on it and call it something else.

 

I guess it would not look real good if the US started negotiating with hostage takers.

 

In all your responses to this thread, not once have mentioned or acknowledge that fact that 5he threat of Iranian nuclear weapons is gone for the foreseeable future. 

 

You are troll, plain and simple. And my guess is you will be gone by the end of this week, only to reappear soon after with a new nick.

 

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

The only thing that was hidden was the movement of the money. I mean really, how dare they not publicise the fact that $400 million in cash was in the wind. What sort of security expert would object to that?

 

 

Can you shed some light on the sanctions for me?

 

I have read that the sanctions only prevent the transfer of US currency AND this is why the ransom was paid in various foreign currencies. 

 

I have also read that other countries are able to transact business with Iran through the banking system but apparently the US is not. If that is the case then why didn't the US have the ransom monies delivered to Iran by a 3rd Party? I always find paying by wire transfer is more secure than paying by cash...since we are talking about "security". What if the plane had crashed or the cash had been stolen at some stage of transport? 

 

Ofcourse, to be fair, I do pay for some things in cash. I call it a "slush fund" and I keep it for buying things I don't want my wife to know about (an occasional bottle of Herradura, a new gun or set of golf clubs, etc).   You know, those things I want to keep off the radar if possible.

 

I admit it...I don't always practice transparency....but then I never promised the entire Country that I would.

Edited August 6, 2016 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

Alright Gents,

 

I will be the first to admit that I was not familiar with alot of the details surrounding this alleged "ransom" and so I have asked for info on this thread AND I have been researching on my own. 

 

One of the areas I have focused on is the timeline of events. 

 

Here is an article from a trusted new source (I may be mistaken but the NYT is a liberal paper?)

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/world/middleeast/iran-sanctions-lifted-nuclear-deal.html?_r=0

 

The defense that obama has used in the method of payment is that it was necessitated due to sanctions, correct? I can probably find the 7-minute video posted earlier in the thread where he stated this.) Something about the sanctions do not allow US currency and this is why various foreign currencies totslling $400M were used. 

 

The second part of the justification for cash was that the sanctions prevented Banking between the US and Iranian banks. Correct?

 

Well this NYT article Indicates that financial sanctions were "lifted" on Saturday, just hours after Tehran and the US swapped prisoners. 

 

Assuming the NYT is correct in the timeline, why didn't obama just wait a few "hours" to wire the $400M to Iran ? Why did he need to get that money to Iran when he did? 

 

It sure appears that the money was delivered when it was and by the method it was so that those US hostwges could be released. 

 

One interesting note, this NYT article never mentions the $400M even though it provides a number of other details about the negotiation:

 

VIENNA — The United States and European nations lifted oil and financial sanctions on Iran on Saturday and released roughly $100 billion of its assets after international inspectors concluded that the country had followed through on promises to dismantle large sections of its nuclear program.

 

The moves came at the end of a day of high drama that played out in a diplomatic dance across Europe and the Middle East, just hours after Tehran and Washington swapped long-held prisoners.

Five Americans, including a Washington Post reporter, Jason Rezaian, were released by Iran hours before the nuclear accord was implemented....

 

Early on Sunday, a senior United States official said, “Our detained U.S. citizens have been released and that those who wished to depart Iran have left.” 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Silurian]

59 minutes ago, slipperylobster said:

Hostage simply stated, in his own words, that the Iranians refused to let him depart until the second plane (with the ransom money) landed.

 

 

 

Actually, the original statement from Abedini (the hostage) was “He told me we are waiting for another plane. And if that plane takes off then we are going to let you go." If they were waiting on the money, why is it important that the other plane takes off?

 

I am not sure about Abedini's statements as they seem to vary from different interviews or different articles. I don't think he is intending to mislead but it is confusing.

[ClutchClark]

46 minutes ago, thaihome said:

 

In all your responses to this thread, not once have mentioned or acknowledge that fact that 5he threat of Iranian nuclear weapons is gone for the foreseeable future. 

 

You are troll, plain and simple. And my guess is you will be gone by the end of this week, only to reappear soon after with a new nick.

 

 

Is this really all you can come up with?  An accusation I must be a troll because I have called BS on the suggestion it was not a ransom?  Come on TH you can do better.

 

I believe in you amigo.

[Silurian]

8 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

The second part of the justification for cash was that the sanctions prevented Banking between the US and Iranian banks. Correct?

 

Well this NYT article Indicates that financial sanctions were "lifted" on Saturday, just hours after Tehran and the US swapped prisoners. 

 

Assuming the NYT is correct in the timeline, why didn't obama just wait a few "hours" to wire the $400M to Iran ? Why did he need to get that money to Iran when he did? 

 

 

 

Just because the sanctions were lifted doesn't mean wire transfers would be able to happen right away. I would assume there would have to be trust involved between the banks that are performing the transaction. There would have to be some kind of account system (like SWIFT) and I am not sure how Iran has set up their banking system. So after all the initial setup between a US Bank and and Iranian bank, I would assume there would be testing involved. Geez, it can be bad enough to try to get money from the US to Thailand, I can't imagine the initial pain involved in a whole new country-to-country set up.

[Silurian]

I did a little research on Iranian banks. It looks like just in the past few years they have really opened up to the international community. I was rather impressed. Also, there interests rates are fairly decent. I wish the US and Thailand had those kind of rates!

 

" In June 2016, (Iranian) bankers agreed to offer a maximum 15 percent interest on one-year deposits, down from the previous 18%. The rate for short-term deposits is set at 10 to 14 percent."