Which Immigration Offices Follow the Rules, Which Don't?

[Briggsy]

Sri Racha seems to be fairly straight except you are routinely told more photocopies of some document or other are required and you are sent off into their photocopying room staffed by Burmese (how does that work??) who efficiently give you the 2 or 3 photocopies requested at 10 Baht per sheet.

[Dan5]

I've lived in Bangkok for quite a few years and have never had any problem with immigration and they seem to just follow the rules. I'm on a retirement visa so I sometimes check the posts here related to retirement extensions. And I see all these extra requirements some people have to comply with that I didn't even know existed until I saw them here. Things like home visits and 30 day waiting periods. And none of them are from provinces that have a lot of expats like Bangkok, Pucket, Chiangmai, etc. My guess is the immigration offices in those provinces where there aren't a lot of expats just have extra time on their hands to come up with their own local requirements and enforce them. But its just a guess.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Sri Racha seems to be fairly straight except you are routinely told more photocopies of some document or other are required and you are sent off into their photocopying room staffed by Burmese (how does that work??) who efficiently give you the 2 or 3 photocopies requested at 10 Baht per sheet.

 

Hmmm... when I go to CW-BKK and use the photocopying shops in the basement of the government building there, I believe the going rate is 1 baht per page.

 

But, those shops are actual private businesses -- not the copying unit of a government department. Guess it's all those fringe benefits that have to be paid for.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Dan5 said:

And I see all these extra requirements some people have to comply with that I didn't even know existed until I saw them here. Things like home visits and 30 day waiting periods.

 

Historically, home visits and 30-day waiting periods have been part of the routine -- in some places -- for marriage extensions. Not for retirement extensions.

 

But lately, there seem to be some posts by members complaining about getting hit by 30-day waiting periods for retirement extensions at some Immigration Offices, unless they want to pay a substantial extra fee to avoid them.

 

 

[ajnamoon]

2 hours ago, Pious said:

Visited immigration joimtien last November applied for retirement extension one year had all papers filled out,800,000bath in account .went to counter told to go into back office with four staff present in room one in police uniform she examined my documents told me that there was a small problem ,she would have to speak to her boss I asked her what the problem was she said not to worry that she could sort it out I asked a few times and was never told.To shorten this story I was asked to pay 19,000 bath when I asked what the money was for and would I get a receipt all documents were pushed back at me and I was told not to make any problems the atmosphere changed and she refused to talk to me pretending to be busy.I paid the money and got the extension of it happens this year I will leave country.There was a lot of people that went into back room and I know that I am not alone Thi policewoman is still working there.

only went once to immigration office  very long wait  and treated like a dog by immigration staff  Now I go to a visa agent take all my documents and passport pay them 4900 baht which includes   retirement visa extension fee    go back about 3 hours later  all done another one year extension

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I've never had a problem in Jomtien.  A few times, I had some "issues" with my application.  Keep a cool head, be polite, and they'll help work it out.  Also, dress nicely.  It does make a difference.

 

I always find it amusing when someone advises people to dress nicely or "act" politely. "Nicely" is obviously subjective, but assuming someone needs to be told to dress like an adult when visiting a government office says something about the type of people the immigrations officers have to deal with on a daily basis..

 

Nearly a decade using the office in Jomtien (and before that at its predecessor off Beach Rd in Pattaya) and I've never had any problems with officers. The only aggravation has been some farang in the queue ahead of me who have made no effort to have the correct paperwork arranged & ready, which means the officer needs to spend that much longer sorting through it and raising questions. 

[carken]

So how many expats know "all" the rules and 4 that matter understand them? We all pick up some of the rules and as time passes we accumulate a basket of rules, but 2 know and understand all of them is a feat I'm sure is not very common ... like many others have said the best thing 2 do is smile a lot bow a lot and say sawadeekop, kaapoonkop a lot ... khun chew ahlie and loaw pope gone my helps 2

..... in my 10 years only had one incident that cost me 5K under the table

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Pious said:

Visited immigration joimtien last November applied for retirement extension one year had all papers filled out,800,000bath in account .went to counter told to go into back office with four staff present in room one in police uniform she examined my documents told me that there was a small problem ,she would have to speak to her boss I asked her what the problem was she said not to worry that she could sort it out I asked a few times and was never told.To shorten this story I was asked to pay 19,000 bath when I asked what the money was for and would I get a receipt all documents were pushed back at me and I was told not to make any problems the atmosphere changed and she refused to talk to me pretending to be busy.I paid the money and got the extension of it happens this year I will leave country.There was a lot of people that went into back room and I know that I am not alone Thi policewoman is still working there.

Did you have a tourist visa when you applied for the retirement extension?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you follow the Visa/Immigration forums here, even modestly, it's not too difficult to get a feeling for the BASIC requirements.

 

But where things often break down for people, and that's the point of this thread, is when individual immigration offices start imposing their own local rules/procedures/fees that are different from the official, general ones used across the country.

 

There should be one set of rules and one set of fees that all the Immigration Offices across the country follow. But sadly, this being Thailand, it doesn't exactly work that way.

 

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If you follow the Visa/Immigration forums here, even modestly, it's not too difficult to get a feeling for the BASIC requirements.

 

But where things often break down for people, and that's the point of this thread, is when individual immigration offices start imposing their own local rules/procedures/fees that are different from the official, general ones used across the country.

 

There should be one set of rules and one set of fees that all the Immigration Offices across the country follow. But sadly, this being Thailand, it doesn't exactly work that way.

If people check with their local office before they apply there are no nasty shocks or dramas when it comes to application day. IMO most people get caught out because they go unprepared. It's such an easy process with a little planning, local rules or not.

[SoiBiker]

Never had a problem at Chaeng Wattana. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If people check with their local office before they apply there are no nasty shocks or dramas when it comes to application day. IMO most people get caught out because they go unprepared. It's such an easy process with a little planning, local rules or not.

 

Maybe it's different elsewhere. But at Chaengwattana, trying to call and get an explanation over the phone of anything about their requirements in English, particularly anything with involving questions of details or interpretation, is next to impossible. And speaking from personal experience, trying to have a in-person conversation in English with the most of the officers there about anything remotely detailed is equally arduous.

 

And yes, I do speak some Thai, but not enough to do well in a discussion about Immigration details.

 

One might think, as the main Immigration office, that CW would be in the lead in terms of English proficiency among their staff. But at least in the extensions area, I've never found that to be the case, especially for the line-level officers.

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Maybe it's different elsewhere. But at Chaengwattana, trying to call and get an explanation over the phone of anything about their requirements in English, particularly anything with involving questions of details or interpretation, is next to impossible. And speaking from personal experience, trying to have a in-person conversation in English with the most of the officers there about anything remotely detailed is equally arduous.

 

And yes, I do speak some Thai, but not enough to do well in a discussion about Immigration details.

 

One might think, as the main Immigration office, that CW would be in the lead in terms of English proficiency among their staff. But at least in the extensions area, I've never found that to be the case, especially for the line-level officers.

Ok, so you have a choice. Make a trip and find out or take your chance on the day. If you don't leave the application to the last day, and somethings missing, they will hold on to the application until you return with the right paperwork.

 

It would be great if every office/IO interpreted the orders the same way, but until that happens don't expect that the requirements are the same as last year, or rely on what you've read on a forum. You will often be disappointed.

 

I wonder what percentage of applicants are native English speakers. Perhaps IO's should be cunning linguists too.

 

Everyone that reads this forum knows things can change, and that local interpretations of the rules exist, so whats the point of this topic? They all follow the rules!

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What you call "local interpretations" of the rules is simply another way of saying they don't follow the actual rules.

 

The point is, some Immigration offices make life difficult for their customers by doing such things, including the demands for extra, off-the-books payments. Others follow the actual rules that people would expect to have applied on their visit.

 

There's only one set of real rules, and those include the provisions contained in the national Police Order governing Immigration. And there's also a standard fee schedule set by the Immigration Department for its services that doesn't include various of the other fee demands that some members are reporting here.

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Bangkokhatter]

My first 2 years working here were a nightmare at Samutprakarn. Our accounts lady always accompanied me with all the relevant documents and it was a constant struggle. More copies of this, that is not correct etc. She always brought along a couple of bottles of whiskey but the officer always asked for me. His questions to me were too personal also, how much was my salary, do i enjoy the Thai ladies etc.

Luckily i got moved over to BOI and the 1 stop place is like paradise compared to Samutprakarn.

[billd766]

I have been doing retirement extensions at Nakhon Sawan for 6 years now and I have never had a problem, been asked for "extra" fees. I pay the 1,900 baht fee and always get a receipt.

 

The front office staff are all female and they are farang friendly and extremely helpful. In the early days if I needed another photo copy it was done free, more than 2 and they charged which is fair as it was my mistake.

 

I drive 125 km each way 4 times a year to do the extension and my 90 day reports and treat it as a day out and don't have problems.

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What you call "local interpretations" of the rules is simply another way of saying they don't follow the actual rules.

 

The point is, some Immigration offices make life difficult for their customers by doing such things, including the demands for extra, off-the-books payments. Others follow the actual rules that people would expect to have applied on their visit.

 

There's only one set of real rules, and those include the provisions contained in the national Police Order governing Immigration. And there's also a standard fee schedule set by the Immigration Department for its services that doesn't include various of the other fee demands that some members are reporting here.

 

The actual rules are a set of minimum standards and are not limited by the Police Orders you're referring to. There is no mention in those orders of home visits, photos, maps, TM30 and other things routinely asked for. Neither you, I or anyone else is privy to every order each office is under.

 

 

Corruption should be a different discussion. Undoubtedly it exists and of course it's against the rules.

 

 

[Pious]

In reply to comments on post, I did,t walk because I wanted to stay in the country I felt that I had Little choice at the time except to pay up. I had a triple entry visa at the time.

[Evilbaz]

Discussing some of these issues with other expats who have been here for around 8 years we agreed on one thing - that involving your Thai partner when dealing with Immi makes things more difficult.

Firstly the IO talks directly to her and doesn't involve you.

Your partner doesn't read Forums like this and has no idea of the nuances of the situation.

Secondly, your Thai partner is far more easily (usually) intimidated by the Authority and more willing to kow tow to their demands "because that's what you have to do".

Lastly unless you are fluent in Thai and all its regional dialects you have no idea what they are discussing/agreeing to.

 

I insist they address Me - I am the Applicant - anything else is just plain rude.

It is a department for Aliens - English is the common language and the IO should at least be capable of conversing in it.

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, Pious said:

In reply to comments on post, I did,t walk because I wanted to stay in the country I felt that I had Little choice at the time except to pay up. I had a triple entry visa at the time.

That explains the 19,000 fee.

Because you entered with a tourist visa you had to have it converted to a non 'O' visa/entry before the extension of stay could be applied for. This is usually only done in Bangkok. I don't know how it works or who gets paid, but you paid a fee for this service/process so you didn't need to go on two trips to Bangkok immigration.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, how about some feedback from folks living in some of the areas that haven't really been mentioned at all thus far???

 

Hua Hin... Nonthaburi... Korat... Khon Kaen... Rayong/Maptaphut... 

 

Nong Khai... NST... Surat Thani... Si Racha... Pathum Thani.. Sisaket...

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

I always find it amusing when someone advises people to dress nicely or "act" politely. "Nicely" is obviously subjective, but assuming someone needs to be told to dress like an adult when visiting a government office says something about the type of people the immigrations officers have to deal with on a daily basis..

 

Nearly a decade using the office in Jomtien (and before that at its predecessor off Beach Rd in Pattaya) and I've never had any problems with officers. The only aggravation has been some farang in the queue ahead of me who have made no effort to have the correct paperwork arranged & ready, which means the officer needs to spend that much longer sorting through it and raising questions. 

 

I went early several years ago, showing up at 7:30.  Sitting outside was a very poorly dressed guy sucking on a beer.  Yes, it's amazing what these people have to deal with.  And if something doesn't go exactly the way they want it, they lose it and yell at the clerks. 

 

As I said, I had a major problem.  It was a big deal and my mistake.  Luckily, the agent processed the paperwork after telling me to be more careful in the future.  It took some time, and "sweet" talking, but we got it done.  Luckily!  No tea money was paid.

 

As for paperwork, I being 2 copies of everything I can think of.  Sometimes they take it all, sometimes only a small part.  Ya never know!   One time they asked for a copy of every stamp in my passport.  That's about 30 pages!  What can ya do...

[louse1953]

15 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Right,well i didn't write his name anyway

I also use the same office as you and always have a joke with the IO's.Never had a problem there.

[JJ Madcow]

First 3 years i was on ED-Extension in Nonthaburi.
Immigration come to our school to see if we come, Immigration test us at the school, And this is back in 2011.

 

Then we got Married in 2014 and i change to Married-Extension all so at Nonthaburi.
First time i go there like 28 days before, Immigration check all our paper work, Say every thing okay, Come back aroun 7-10 days before, We Don´t do them so early.

When we return Immigration ask why my income letter was so "old" (around 6 week) i say i was ask to come back.

And i was told, income letter not more the 30 days, Remember next year i was told.

 

Nonthaburi Immigration all so wanted bank book to support (prove) i send money into Thailand every month.

The amount have to be minimum 40.000 baht per month.

 

Nonthaburi Immigration all so do home visit every year, When they come they take picture in all the rooms with us.

Ask a lot of questions, where we meet, how long together, when we start living like husband and wife, about my wife familie and more.

 

2 witnesses the give ID-Card and answer a lot of questions about us, how long the know us, if they know how long we stay together and more.

 

2015 at Nonthaburi every paper correct but they wanted 1 picture zoom little bit more  in on the door number to the condo.

 

Home visit Ask us a lot of questions again same as year before, this time only 1 witnesses ask a lot of questions.

 

 

We move to Bang Saen later in 2015 so therefor here in 2016 my Married-Extension was at Si Racha Immigration.

So nice here, Immigration so kind here, Very nice and polite people we talk to here.

Here they want us to bring 2 witnesses to Immigration, No problem for us, But we have to return as we didn't know before we go there.

 

Immigration very relax about the paper work, fine fine, That okay, No problem and so on.

 

We return later with 2 witnesses, Immigration ask them how long they know us, Answer around 4 years, Thanks that all. He he to bring 2 witnesses for that, fell a little "Stupid", But no problem.

 

Home visit, I was told normal they come same day as one apply, But the women was not free before Sunday, So was it okay to come on a Sunday she ask, Sure no problem for us.

She come and take 1 picture with us outside our house, when the house number is on the picture, that all, take not more then 1 minute total.

 

Sure Immigration office, my wife, and our neighbor start chit chat after that for around 45 min. he he

 

 

 

 

Bonus for me at Si Racha Immigration, I was told when i turn 50 year (very soon) i can change my Married-Extension to Retirement-Extension, No problem, Easy for me, easy for them.

 

I ask same at Nonthaburi Immigration before we move and was told i need to leave Thailand and get a new NoN O before apply for a 1 year  Retirement-Extension, Because i have change reason once from ED-Extension to Married-Extension so i was not able to change again.

 

So i are very happy here at Si Racha Immigration, And Online 90 days works here all so, Report online morning, have new slip evening, Very fast service for 90 days online here. 

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, emilymat said:

I have never found any particular problems in Pattaya. However, this year (my 10th) I need to renew my retirement visa 3 weeks early and exit the country for a few months.

 

Now, normally, I would simply conform with all the usual rules and procedures and have no concerns. However, when you read posts, such as that yesterday, about a delay in processing the r/v, then obviously when I go early next month I'll have a few misgivings prior to actually attending - even though I have no evidence it will not be straightforward.

 

If they were to deny my visa immediately, long term plans would have to be abandoned - or I would have to sucumb to a bribe, which I simply would not do or simply exit the country and start the retirment process all over again on return.

 

Perhaps I should refrain from reading posts such as yesterday's1

 

I shouldn't worry. My last 90 day report of the year falls 5 weeks before my extension so i always ask if they can do the extension as well at the same time,never had a problem.

[NancyL]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

That explains the 19,000 fee.

Because you entered with a tourist visa you had to have it converted to a non 'O' visa/entry before the extension of stay could be applied for. This is usually only done in Bangkok. I don't know how it works or who gets paid, but you paid a fee for this service/process so you didn't need to go on two trips to Bangkok immigration.

 

Unfortunately, the multi quote function isn't working yet.

 

If you go back to the original post about someone being hit up for a 19,000 baht "fee" to convert a tourist visa to a "retirement visa", you'll see that it is was in Jomtien, one of the places authorized to do visa conversions.  The standard government fee for this application is 2000 baht to obtain a 90 day O visa.  The applicant then returns during the final 30 days of the life of that O visa and then applies for a 12 month extension due to retirement.  Government fee for that application is 1900 baht.

 

It appears that Jomtien is doing the same thing that Chiang Mai has started to do since the beginning of the year and that's to prey upon the ignorance of newly arrived retirees who come without the appropriate O or O-A visa.  Only here in Chiang Mai, they're given the run-around and silent treatment by CM Immigration.  Their documents are never 100% perfect.  They're told there isn't enough time remaining on their permission to stay because all the "appointments" to apply are filled for the next 25 days, etc, etc.  (The appointment system in CM has been kaput since July 2015).  All this to push them toward using visa agents.  The visa agents have all been instructed to submit a "white envelope" with 10,000 baht cash along with the other documents needed for a visa conversion.  Even "agents" who are simple Thai people who help out one or two foreigners a month with visa conversions have been called into CM Immigration and given this instruction.  No visa conversions with the 10,000 baht in a white envelope.  

[NancyL]

The original post was about marriage extensions.  I'm more knowledgeable about the abuses of CM Immigration when it comes to retirees, and marriage extensions are handled at a different office than retirement extensions.  But, I do hear first hand accounts of arbitrary application of "the rules" when it comes to marriage extensions and that relates to whether a TM30 is on file for an applicant.  Especially in cases where someone lives in a house they've built that's in their wife's name.  If Imm. wants to make life difficult for an applicant, they'll look in their computer to see if a TM30 has been filed or is up-to-date and if not, the wife receives a fine, on the spot.

 

With retirees, at the Imm. office at Promenada mall, they don't seem to be as sticky about looking to see if TM30s are on file.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

The original post was about marriage extensions.  I'm more knowledgeable about the abuses of CM Immigration when it comes to retirees, and marriage extensions are handled at a different office than retirement extensions.  But, I do hear first hand accounts of arbitrary application of "the rules" when it comes to marriage extensions and that relates to whether a TM30 is on file for an applicant.  Especially in cases where someone lives in a house they've built that's in their wife's name.  If Imm. wants to make life difficult for an applicant, they'll look in their computer to see if a TM30 has been filed or is up-to-date and if not, the wife receives a fine, on the spot.

 

With retirees, at the Imm. office at Promenada mall, they don't seem to be as sticky about looking to see if TM30s are on file.  

 

Nancy, actually, the original post was just about which Immigration Offices follow the rules and which don't -- regardless of the type of transaction involved.

 

Since you mentioned dealing more with the ongoing retirement extensions that people do in CM, can you comment some about how well or not CM is handling those kinds of transactions, including any related issues such as wait times, etc?

Edited August 9, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NancyL]

As Elgordo said, you can search this forum and the CM forum for a long documented history of systemic abuse of the elderly at CM Immigration's office at Promenada mall.  I've come to believe that what may have started out as simple ineptitude has now become institutionalized as Imm. mgt realized the inhumane conditions were pushing the elderly into using agents.  

 

After the move to the office at Promenada mall, Imm. discontinued the sorry excuse for an on-line queue.  It wasn't good, but at least it did give 10 lucky people the opportunity to have a confirmed appointment each day.  Also, with the move, they reduced the number of officers processing retirement extensions from three to one.  They hold to issuing just 20 queue tickets per day for retirement extensions, so applicants arrive as early as 3 am.  Often, if applicants arrive after 6 am, they're out-of-luck.  They wait outside, under cover, but with minimal protection from rain and wind.  No protection from heat, cold, mosquitoes and usually no lighting or toilets  until  mall security wakes up at 6 am.   (Sometimes the night shift is on-the-ball, but not often.)

 

The queue tickets aren't issued until 8:30 am, and if you're No. 22 - 25 in the queue, you don't know how many ahead of you are going to be refused because they're documents aren't in order, so you stick around hoping to get lucky.  Of course, they don't issue tickets for future dates.

 

But amazingly, if you don't score a queue ticket, you can go into a visa agent conveniently located two doors down from Imm., in space that Imm. leases from the mall.  Somehow that agent can "work you in" and take care of getting you a retirement extension that day even though all the queue tickets were issued to others.  No other agent can do this.  The other agents have to send a rep to wait in the queue for their customers just like the "retail" customers.  

 

This same agent also processes Certificates of Residency for CM Immigration.  500 baht and you can pick up your Cert. the next day.  But wait, you say, aren't Cert. of Residency suppose to be no charge?  Yes, if you don't want to pay this agent for assistance, you can wait one month and return for your free Cert. of Res.  

 

There are rumors about how this agent is connected to Imm.  I don't know and won't make any assertions, but the conditions for the elderly at CM Immigration-Promenada have sure been good for their business.

[NancyL]

Let's not forget our brothers and sisters on Koh Samui.  There have been several reports that they have to go to one specific hospital for a health screening certificate, at a cost in excess of 700 baht, ahead of obtaining a one-year extension.  Because of the logistics of the ferry, and the hours of operation of the hospital and immigration it turns what should be a day trip to the mainland into an overnight trip with hotel and meal expenses, too.

 

Edit:  Does anyone ever "fail" the health screening and what happens to them?